Episode 115: Dylan, The Dead, and Despot
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Transcript
Time Crisis and The Crisis Continues were rejoined by FaceTime, The Crisis Crew, and a few old and familiar faces.
We'll be talking about everything from the Unibomber to Nikes to The Grateful Dead to Ben & Jerry's.
How do those things come together? You just wait and see.
It's Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
They passed me by, all of those great romances
They were a threat, robbing me of my rightful chances
But picture clear, everything seemed so easy
And so I dealt to the blow, one of us had to go
Now it's different, I want you to know
One of us is crying, one of us is lying
Leave the lonely man
Alright, Time Crisis back again. It's just weekly now. This is our fourth weekly episode?
Yeah!
Seinfeld, can I get a number crunch on that?
Hey what's up? Yeah I just crunched the numbers and we have done these for a few consecutive weeks.
Wait, three or four?
Well that's a vague answer.
This is number, what, three in a row?
It's three in a row, it's not four in a row?
It's number four in a row.
I gotta say, that was maybe the simplest number crunch of all time.
I just got a crazy email so I was a little distracted and I wasn't expecting to be speaking so early in the show. Normally you and Jake kind of go on and then you know how it
goes.
Seinfeld's backstage just getting warmed up.
What's the crazy email? Work related or Time Crisis?
It's all work baby.
The world keeps churning even in the midst of this crisis.
So this is our fourth in a row, although as a lot of people have said, time seems to be passing in a different kind of way in this kind of insane world moment.
So maybe, the truth is, even though we're doing it weekly, it kind of feels like normal.
Because every week feels like at least two weeks.
Yeah, weird rhythm.
It's a very weird rhythm.
Whatever happens, whether things turn out slightly better than people expect, about what people expect, or even worse, I think one way or another this time period is
going to seem like a weird dream moment for a lot of people.
Obviously not for people on the front lines and people directly affected by it, but for so many people who have just been staying in their houses and just kind of...
Getting pause.
Yeah, it'll look back as like a strange dream.
Yeah, there's something so strange about being stuck in your house.
It changes the way that you kind of perceive what's happening.
I'm sure during... People obviously compared it to wartime, but if you were growing up during World War II, you still went to school and you went to the store and you got
ice cream or you played stickball or whatever.
You experienced it every facet of life. You just experienced the wartime version.
You still went over to your friend's house, all that stuff.
This is like a very peculiar type of situation as far as crises go.
Anyway, we'll see.
Yeah.
How are you holding up, Jake? Are you staying in shape mentally and physically?
Yeah, I've been doing my runs.
And I bought a Peloton like a month before all of this unfolded.
So that's been a real godsend.
Did we talk about Peloton before? I've used the Peloton before.
And if people aren't familiar, Peloton is a spinning at home bike.
It's like SoulCycle. You bike in place and there's a screen on it so you don't have to be in person.
An instructor can tell you what to do.
You can also just free ride.
So a lot of the classes are music-based.
A lot of them, as you can imagine, are like the hits of the day.
Pop, sometimes somebody might do a tribute to a certain artist.
I'm kind of curious how they pay out royalties and how they go about that.
But like Once in a Blue Moon, I remember when I first tried it like a year ago,
the most random thing I could find was the Southern Rock Ride.
Uh-huh.
Have you come across any like slightly left of center ones?
Well, there was a classic rock ride and track one was Touch of Grey.
Really?
It was like the warm-up song.
I can see that. Like, we're just feeling good.
We're just, it's not too fast.
It's a good sentiment.
♪ Clocks are running late, paying my number morning sky ♪
♪ Look so phoney, dollars breaking everywhere ♪
♪ Light a candle, curse the glare ♪
♪ Draw the curtains, I don't care, 'cause it's all right ♪
♪ I will get by ♪
♪ I will get by ♪
♪ I will get by ♪
♪ I will survive ♪
- It's funny, I was thinking about Touch of Grey recently
because YouTube recommended
a Touch of Grey reaction video to me.
Are you familiar with these reaction videos?
- I wonder if the same video has been recommended to me,
'cause when I opened YouTube, there's this dude.
- Is his name Jamel, aka Jamal?
- Yes, reacts to Touch of Grey,
and I haven't clicked on it yet.
That's so crazy that we were both recommended to do that.
- That's how YouTube works.
It either radicalizes you
into alt-right white supremacy videos
or turns you into a deadhead.
(laughing)
But anyway, yeah, I've always gotten,
there's only so many full dead shows on YouTube,
and you always get recommended them a lot,
but there is this whole world.
I've come into it a few times of just reaction videos
of just people who'd be like,
"I'm listening to this (beep) for the first time."
So this guy Jamel, aka Jamal,
he doesn't seem historically very familiar with rock music,
and his audience, I guess,
is always asking him to listen to rock music,
and I looked through his whole page,
and you see him listening to Allman Brothers, Pink Floyd.
It's some kind of weird relationship,
like a bunch of classic rock fans and this non-rock band,
and he's a very positive dude,
so maybe it's just like,
there was something I liked about "Touch of Gray."
You're just kind of listening to it grooving,
and he really liked the chorus,
which, you know, it is a good song to get people inspired.
"I Will Get By," "I Will Survive,"
and he said, you know, "Anybody can relate to that,"
and then he was very touched by, at the end,
when it goes from "I will get by" to "We will get by."
♪ We will get by ♪
(laughing)
Which is a very triumphant moment in that song.
- It's huge, it's huge.
- Often bands don't wanna be defined
by their biggest hit.
You know, famously, Radiohead has mixed feelings about "Creep,"
and then Grateful Dead, of course,
they never were gonna play "Touch of Gray"
every show or anything,
and of course, there were the old Grateful Dead fans
who kind of resented the Touch heads,
the new fans who got in because of "Touch of Gray,"
but still, I would actually make the case
in both those situations,
Grateful Dead, "Touch of Gray," and Radiohead, "Creep,"
as much as the fan bases and the band themselves
might have a slight resentment
towards the fact that so many people know those songs
and not the rest of their deep and impressive catalog,
in both cases, the song is a decent summation
of the worldview of the band.
- Yeah.
- With "Vampire Weekend," our biggest song is "A-Punk."
I like "A-Punk," but I could definitely make a case,
like, yeah, "A-Punk" has a lot of "Vampire Weekend"
(beep) in it, but I don't think the thesis statement
of "Vampire Weekend" is contained in "A-Punk."
Maybe musically or something, I don't know,
but definitely not lyrically, but in those cases,
even though they have maybe more sophisticated versions
of the same sentiment, like,
Grateful Dead, I will get by, we will get by,
we will survive all the bad things happening in the verses,
and then just, I will get by.
It's kind of like, you know, life is weird
and there's a lot of negativity,
but you gotta be okay with it, and you know what?
We'll get by, we're in this together, man.
If you had to sum up the Grateful Dead worldview,
that's like a pretty good way to do it,
and if you had to sum up, you know,
Tom York and the Radiohead worldview,
I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo, why not?
- Alienated.
- Yeah, what the hell am I doing here?
That could almost be like a country song.
What the hell am I doing here?
I'm sure there is a country version of creep,
and it's funny, 'cause Touch of Grey
is towards the end of the Dead's career,
creep is the very beginning of Radiohead's,
but it's like, of course, Tom York came up
with far more sophisticated ways to say,
I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo, what the hell am I doing here?
- Yeah.
- There's that good song on Kid A, where he's like,
I'm not here, this isn't happening,
and that's kind of like a slightly older, wiser way
of talking about alienation, he's like,
that you don't feel like you belong where you are.
- Yeah.
- But really, it's a more sophisticated,
different flavor of, what the hell am I doing here?
- Karma Police kind of has some of that in it.
- Yeah.
- I mean, even airbag, an airbag saved my life.
Like, why am I still here?
How is it that I'm still alive?
An airbag just saved my life.
That's preposterous.
- And you know, Radiohead was named
after a Talking Heads song,
and I've always found that like a little funny,
because it's like, they occupy similar places in culture,
like the same type of person, probably in like 1980,
who was obsessed with like, Remain in Light.
Their counterpart in like 2000,
was probably also obsessed with Kid A or something,
but they're just, they just are such different bands.
But in a weird way, it's like,
if you wanted to get outside of like aesthetics,
if you wanted to just get into like the conceptual vibe,
this is not my beautiful way.
How did I get here?
- Well, it's like sophisticated, like existential rock.
- Right.
And maybe, you know, David Byrne,
he's got like the satirical vibe,
and he's like, he has more fun,
like playing like the goofy guy.
- Yeah.
- And Tom York is more like deeply serious,
but it's the same thing.
It's like, what the hell am I doing here?
I don't belong here.
And there's variations.
Do I belong here?
Am I even here?
But it's still, it's all kind of like saying the same thing.
♪ When you were in the fall ♪
♪ Couldn't look you in the eye ♪
♪ You're just like an angel ♪
♪ Your skin makes me cry ♪
♪ You float like a feather ♪
♪ My beautiful one ♪
♪ I wish I was special ♪
♪ You're so fucking special ♪
♪ But I'm a creep ♪
♪ I'm a runner ♪
♪ What the hell am I doing here ♪
♪ I don't belong here ♪
♪ Don't care for you ♪
- And Touching Grey, I actually had,
probably some listeners saw this.
I was interviewed by a friend of the show, Steven Heiden.
- Oh yeah, I saw that.
- The New York Times does like a music issue,
New York Times Magazine,
and they pick 20, 25 songs that are kind of
summing up the state of music today.
And they picked Harmony Hall as one of them,
which was tight.
Although I do have to point out,
they occasionally pick some like wack song,
just to be like, this song sucks,
but it says something about today.
I don't think that was their intention,
but sometimes they do go negative.
But they picked Harmony Hall, which is tight.
It's like, you know, the song's about a year old
and Steven Heiden was writing the little piece about it.
- Yeah.
- It was like a pretty short piece,
but he and I had like this super long conversation
and he was asking me a lot of questions about jam bands
and is Harmony Hall actually inspired by jam bands
and what do I really think about jam band,
like that kind of stuff.
He said he might release the tapes one day,
which would be tight for the heads.
It is pretty amazing.
I think it was like a 900 word piece.
And I think we talked for an hour and a half.
So there's a lot that didn't make it in.
- Wow.
- But at one point as I was talking to him,
I had like a very silly basic realization
about Touch of Gray.
I think I was going on about why Robert Hunter
was such a great lyricist.
And I was, Touch of Gray came up
and I guess it's so obvious,
but I never really thought about it,
is that Touch of Gray is an intertextual kind of meta song
because there's a really famous old song that's from,
I think it's originally from like the teens or the twenties,
but it continued to be popular through the thirties
and the great depression.
And even through the forties,
it was just like basically became a standard
called Look for the Silver Line.
And then I think there's like jazz versions of it.
It was in movies and stuff.
There's Judy Garland, Chet Baker, everybody did this.
And basically the hook of the song is
look for the silver lining
and try to find the sunny side of life.
- So he flips it.
- So he flips it.
And it's funny, I never thought about it.
Maybe because the songs are separated by decades,
but it's like Hunter and Jerry and the whole Grateful Dead,
obviously such a huge part of what they did
was kind of like digging into the American songbook,
whether it's digging into like country or the blues
and these figures from the wild west or something,
and then kind of bringing it all together in a modern way.
So it's like, of course,
it makes sense that the Grateful Dead would be referencing
this old kind of American standard,
look for the silver lining.
And it's obvious what that means.
You look for the silver lining, say,
oh, something came your way,
but maybe somewhere in that cloud, there's a silver lining.
It's a positive thing.
So he flips it negative.
Every silver lining has a touch of gray.
And it's yin and yang,
which also is like kind of a good way
to sum up the dead ethos,
which is like, the band's literally called the Grateful Dead
that very few people would say they're grateful for death.
The name has that tension a little bit,
this understanding that death comes for us all,
but there should be a gratitude for having existed at all.
Maybe even a gratitude for the fact
that life doesn't go on forever.
So there's something funny about taking,
look for the silver lining and saying like,
yeah, but once you find the silver lining
on that gray cloud,
look a little closer into the silver lining
and you're gonna see a touch of gray.
It's almost like you're zooming in
and then within the touch of gray,
there's probably another silver lining.
- Yeah, it's fractal.
- Yeah, which is pretty psychedelic.
- Yeah, you could just go infinitely into that touch of gray
or that silver lining.
What a long strange trip it's been, man.
- Yeah, it's not all joy, it's not all sadness, but.
- You know what's cool also is like,
some of the most classic dead lyrics
that people quote often or on t-shirts
are like kind of deep in song.
They're not like the song title
or they're not like even the chorus that's repeated.
- Right.
- What a long strange trip it's been is just sung once.
- Yeah, it only happens once, right.
- Right, and like every silver lining's got a touch of gray,
it's just like once.
- Right, imagine if touch of gray was just called,
I Will Get By.
- Right, yeah, it would be very pedestrian.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- Hey, do you guys think that song was the inspiration
for Just For Men touch of gray?
Just For Men, the male hair dye product.
- It's called Just For Men touch of gray?
- Yeah, that's subsidiary of the main Just For Men product
where if you don't wanna look overly dyed,
you wanna have a dignified kind of touch of gray
in your hair, you use that version of Just For Men.
- Oh, you know what year that product line debuted?
Let me do a quick number crunch.
- Okay, that'd be great.
- It would be funny if it's the opposite.
- It's like, smells like teen spirit.
- Yeah, exactly.
It smells like teen spirit came from a deodorant.
- Right.
- And you know, like yeah, touch of gray,
I think the first version, actually,
after I watched Jamel aka Jamal's reaction video
for touch of gray, it was like,
I wanna go listen to the first touch of gray,
which is from like '80 or '82 or something, early '80s.
About five years before the recorded version.
And honestly, it's pretty loose,
but their first time playing it was great.
I really liked that version.
- Guys, touch of gray was first launched in 2008.
- Oh, okay.
- Oh, damn.
- I was hoping--
- I was picturing just like, yeah, Robert Hunter,
just having like a dark night of the soul.
He's like, man, he's looking in the mirror,
just like, I'm getting old.
And then he ends up going to like a 24 hour CVS
and sees it, touch of gray.
And he's like, buys it.
And he's at home dying his hair.
And he's like, you know what, man?
Well, it is funny too,
that it kind of sums up the product, it sounds like,
because people, for whatever reason, don't like to go gray.
I think people are more chill about it these days,
but for whatever reason,
I guess some men don't wanna go gray.
And like with a lot of kind of cosmetic improvements,
if you try to do a hard 180,
you end up looking even weirder.
And this can be true with certain types
of plastic surgery and stuff.
You know, do whatever you wanna do,
but you can't just turn back the clock.
So sometimes people are going gray and they don't like it.
And they don't, I was like,
I don't wanna be a gray haired person.
And then they go like a hard black dye.
- Their hair was never that dark to begin with.
- And that looks arguably even stranger.
And there's something to be said
because you gotta go with the yin yang mentality,
which is like, you know what?
There has to be a touch of gray within this head of hair
because that's nature.
- There's an episode of "Frasier" about that
where Frasier's dad dyes his white hair,
just a pure black color.
And I think it really supports your point.
The website I'm on says,
"Touch of gray was designed to specifically meet the needs
of male baby boomers, quote,
who like the respect that their gray hair gives them,
but want to reduce the amount of gray
so that others can see their vitality."
- Whoa.
- Wow, really finding a balance there.
- Wait, so first of all,
the fact that they specifically say
this is for baby boomers,
that means 100%.
They were like,
what's something that baby boomers relate to?
Be like, well, I think a decent number of them
like "The Grateful Dead."
What should we call it, Truckin'?
Dark Star?
(laughing)
Dark Star would be tight.
- Matt just pointed out that "Just For Men" was launched
the same year that "Touch of Gray," the song, was released,
1987.
- Interesting. - Whoa.
- So maybe "Just For Men,"
the whole brand was inspired by "The Grateful Dead,"
but it took them another two decades
to really embrace it.
That's interesting.
I wonder how, like, 100% in the marketing meeting,
somebody talked about that naming it
after "Grateful Dead" song just works on so many levels.
It's gonna stir something in our consumer,
that baby boomer guy.
It makes sense in terms of what our product actually does
in terms of the metaphysical, philosophical angle.
It also kind of is what "Just For Men" is all about.
I wonder if they had to reach out to the dead,
or I guess, you know, "Touch of Gray," it's--
- I wonder if they did reach out to the dead
to see if they wanted to collab.
Hey, man, you wanna put a Steely
on some of these "Just For Men" boxes?
- I mean, now would be the time,
because whoever's in charge of the dead IP,
they're going real hard.
We've had a lot of TC heads send us,
there's some kind of, like, the cookies.
- What was that?
- There's cookies that are everywhere now.
There are these "Grateful Dead" coconut cookies.
I saw 'em at the airport last time I was at the airport.
It's a kind of thin cookie.
- Well, also, like the shoes that came out last week
that a lot of people sent to me, like the Nike shoes.
- I actually wanted to talk about those shoes.
- Okay.
- I think that's like a skateboarding shoe, the SB,
and Nike's been doing a lot of collabs for that shoe,
and of course they do a lot of collabs in general.
Maybe I gotta hit 'em up about doing a vampire shoe.
They came out with the "Grateful Dead" series of this shoe.
They didn't go too hard.
They kinda used, like, fun colors,
and there's like a little bit of a vibey jaggedness
around the swoosh.
Is there like a bear on it somewhere?
- I just saw like a quick little image of it,
and it turned me off, so I didn't click on it.
I wasn't interested.
I mean, it's gotta be red, white, and blue, right?
- It's called the SB Dunk.
It's kinda lime green and blue,
and it's got a kind of fleece texture on parts.
So I think rather than putting a bear on it,
it's like when you wear them, you become the bear, kind of.
- Ugh, dumb.
I was just sort of like,
I don't see any connection to the dead.
It's not red, white, and blue.
It's so like just piggybacking on like the dead
being like hip the last few years.
I'm out.
- I know what you mean.
It doesn't totally,
so it's inspired by the "Grateful Dead" bears.
I guess that's what they're saying.
- Which is, I think, the weakest iconography
of all of the dead iconography.
- The bears?
- Yeah, I'm pretty out with the bears.
They're just weak.
- They're just cute.
I mean, I like some of the work.
- It reminds me of like,
well, if there was like some hippies in like Ashland, Oregon
like who had like a cookie company
and like they needed a logo,
they would like come up with like the bears or something.
It just doesn't, it's too cute and cuddly.
There's no sort of sadness in it.
There's no darkness.
- I like their place in the pantheon
of "Grateful Dead" logos and imagery and stuff,
but maybe they've come to dominate the rap jack
and they don't really bring that much to the conversation.
- Yeah, obviously the skeletons and like the stele,
it's almost more intense than the music.
It's like darker than the music, which is kind of tight.
- That reminds me, when I was a kid,
I remember being familiar with that iconography
'cause t-shirts and stuff.
- Yeah.
- And thinking the dead was like the heaviest thing.
Have we talked about that?
I just thought the dead was gonna sound
like Sabbath or something.
I mean, I didn't even know what Sabbath was at that.
Like I'm talking about I'm like 10 or 11
and I probably had heard the dead in my parents' house
without even realizing it.
But I remember just being like,
whoa, it's called "The Grateful Dead" and there's skulls.
It's probably like super metal.
- Oh no, totally.
Yeah, it didn't totally make sense.
I felt the same way about Pink Floyd too.
And it took me a long time to kind of like
totally synthesize it 'cause I would see
like crazy Pink Floyd t-shirts
and they were still so popular through the '90s.
And then I'd hear like "Money" on classic rock radio.
Money!
(laughs)
- Yeah.
- What is this like?
- Yeah, it's a weird time signature,
but it's just like this kind of like funny blues song about,
that's like the worst song to get into Pink Floyd with.
Obviously they have a lot of music
that kind of is spacey and weird and has sense and stuff.
♪ Hello ♪
♪ Is there anybody in there ♪
♪ Just nod if you can hear me ♪
♪ Is there anyone home ♪
♪ Come on, come on down ♪
♪ I hear you're feeling down ♪
♪ I can ease your pain ♪
♪ Get you on your feet again ♪
♪ Relax, I'll explain ♪
♪ Need some information first ♪
♪ Just the basic facts ♪
♪ Can you show me your hurts ♪
♪ There is no pain you are receiving ♪
♪ The blistered chips mark on your horizon ♪
♪ You are only coming through in waves ♪
♪ Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying ♪
- But one of the reasons I was so interested
in the Grateful Dead, so I guess it's an SB Dunk Low,
that's the show.
They launched that this week.
And then the week before, they launched another collab
for the SB Dunk Low.
And you know what that was?
- Oh, with another band?
- Not a band, but it's something
that actually has a connection to the dead.
- To the dead, Ben & Jerry's.
- Yeah, wow.
Holy (beep) Jake.
- No, I think I saw that.
I think that somehow it crept into my consciousness.
You know when you get things,
people send things to you on Instagram or whatever,
and my eyes scan it for a half second
and I'm like, not interested.
But it does still sort of lodge in there.
And so anyway, that's how I knew.
- Oh, totally.
Especially if you wake up in the middle of the night
and you're just like, look at your phone
for like 45 minutes, and you're just taking in
so much information so quickly,
and you're not even awake.
And then later, you're trying to recall it
and you're just like, I feel like I saw a Ben & Jerry's Nike.
Or maybe that was like a joke.
Or maybe, I don't know, man.
A lot of people sent me that too.
So it's funny, it's like, what is it about the SB Dunk Low
that they decided to do back-to-back kind vibe things?
Ben & Jerry's one week, Grateful Dead the next.
- Ben & Jerry's is pushing it.
- Okay, look, we can get into the whole history
of Ben & Jerry's.
Maybe they don't run it in the way they did
in the early days, but still.
It's still like, they have tie-dye.
It's like a crunch, it's from Vermont.
It has a crunchy history.
Next week, they do a Bernie Sanders SB Dunk Low.
- Okay, the thing that trips me out is that
you think of Nike as like athletic shoes,
for like basketball, running around, soccer, whatever.
And then Ben & Jerry's is just sort of like
indulgent ice cream.
It's like the polar opposite of Nike's, like, just do it.
- Push yourself to the extreme.
- Right, it's pretty funny when you put it that way
'cause that didn't even cross my mind.
I mean, I think it's fair to say, Jake,
that I follow like the kind of hypebeast fashion world
a little more than you.
- Absolutely.
- Is that fair?
Okay, yeah, I don't wanna be.
- I'll sign off on that.
(laughing)
- What?
- But what's funny is like, if you follow that world,
if you like ever look at hypebeast or Heist and Abiety
or, you know, follow Instagram accounts
or even just like think about that stuff,
there's so many collabs that the idea of doing
like an ice cream and a Nike collaboration,
the idea that that's even like weird,
it didn't even cross my mind for half a second
because it's just like such a familiar thing
that happens now.
In fact, the first thing I thought about was like,
well, what do they look like?
Would I wear them?
And that's literally what I've been thinking about.
And then when I first saw them,
it was probably similar to you, I was like, yikes,
because the Ben & Jerry's shoot does a better job
capturing the essence of Ben & Jerry's
than the Grateful Dead one does
because it uses a kind of cow print.
It also uses a kind of a green rolling hills
with a blue sky and white clouds picture
is kind of cooked in there,
which you said so much as Ben & Jerry's.
And then the inside,
there seems to be this real small strip of tie dye.
So it's got the cow, the tie dye
and that kind of classic Ben & Jerry's,
like, you know, spring in Vermont, Vista.
And then the swoosh is kind of melting,
which makes you think of ice cream.
So anyway, it makes total sense.
It's less of like a reach than the Grateful Dead shoot.
But when I first saw it, I was like, all right,
I get what they were going for,
but it's like horrendously ugly, you know, pass.
And then I got sent it so many times
that I was forced to look at it a bunch.
And at a certain point I started to be like,
you know what, maybe I'm kind of into this.
And then I don't think I caught it the first time,
but eventually I realized the name of the shoe.
And that's kind of what won me over.
Do you know what the name of the shoe is, Jake?
- No, I don't.
- It's the Chunky Dunky.
(laughing)
- Dunky?
- Yeah, because it's a dunk.
- Okay, you're like dunking a basketball?
- Well, and the shoe is called a dunk.
It's, you know, there's a lot of Nike shoes
that are in the Dunks family.
- Oh, I didn't know that.
What's that?
That's a family of shoe?
- It's like a famous kind of Nike, it's Dunks.
- But are they basketball shoes?
- I think originally-- - Like high tops?
- The Dunks are basketball shoes, but these are--
- But is the SB Dunk is a skateboard dunk?
- Yes, that's specifically a skate shoe
to compete with like DC,
that the creative director is this, you know,
kind vibe guy, Paul Rodriguez.
And like Eric Cost, and like it's part of like
the sort of girl skateboard spike kind of vibe.
So it's not totally crazy.
It's got the classic silhouette
of that kind of fat skateboard shoe.
Although that is the funny way in which like
the layers of meaning eventually cease to mean anything.
It's like, there's a basketball shoe
and they called it a dunk because you could wear them,
you could dunk, you could jump high and dunk,
which is a move in basketball, yes.
So then they use some aspects of that
to create a skateboard shoe.
And they just kept the name Dunks,
even though you don't dunk in skateboard.
All right, I'm kind of with you.
And then about 15 years later,
they did a collab with an ice cream company
that had a famous line called Chunky Monkey.
So they called it a Chunky Donkey.
And you're just like, wow.
- Yeah, see, that's where I come in.
And I'm just like, what's going on here, guys?
- Well, yeah, it's a perfect example of kind of like
how if you follow this, it makes perfect sense.
You're like, oh, Chunky Donkey, how witty.
And somebody else is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, rewind.
None of this makes sense.
♪ And the Nike's on my feet ♪
♪ Keep my cypher complete ♪
♪ Keep my cypher complete ♪
♪ I blaze 'em, I blaze 'em, I blaze 'em, I blaze 'em ♪
♪ Blue suede shoes stay crispy like bacon ♪
♪ Nike's on my feet, make my cypher complete ♪
♪ I stay shining like the lights on the street in the night ♪
♪ Rivas take me shopping when I'm up in New York ♪
♪ Hit the shoe store, go and cop a few more ♪
♪ You at the mall getting dinner at the food court ♪
♪ I'm in LA eating 22 course ♪
♪ Young boss, shit, paper in my pockets ♪
♪ I got a closet filled with shoe boxes ♪
♪ Mom said my spender habit a little bit obnoxious ♪
♪ But a pile of state fresh up in his cockpit ♪
♪ Used to ride camry downs ♪
♪ Now I buy some clothes, wear 'em out ♪
♪ Hit the clubs and shit, pull they cameras out ♪
♪ Living in a dream, they beginning to believe ♪
♪ My hotel smell like cigarettes and weed ♪
♪ And shit, with what I'm spitting, they should give me a degree ♪
♪ Good liquor, what I'm sipping is a cheat ♪
♪ Fender blow, don't snooze, don't sleep ♪
♪ All I really need is some shoes on my feet ♪
- So when I first heard the name Chunky Dunky,
it was like, it gave me like, that weird feeling.
It was like a touch of cringe, which, you know,
that'd be the updated version of Touch of Grey.
Everything dope has a touch of cringe.
You know?
Something that's just like, too dope,
it's actually not cool.
And you know, everybody in our modern society,
people really hate cringe (beep).
You know, like Seinfeld, you backed me up here.
Social media, you're posting memes.
Have you ever gotten some Zoomer jumping in your mentions
and saying you posted cringe, bro?
- You know, I've been fortunate, not on my main account,
but I would say also that there's a certain genre of cringe
that, like, curb your enthusiasm,
could be seen as pure cringe to certain people
of a low tolerance. - Well, you know,
it's also funny, like, we've talked on the show
about how, like, it seems like one dividing line
in our culture is people under 45,
and especially, like, younger, younger,
not only do they prefer Bernie Sanders,
they also prefer cringe humor,
whereas older people, they like more of your Joe Bidens
and your Donald Trumps,
they feel uncomfortable about cringe humor.
And it's weird.
That's why, like, people talk a lot about how Bernie
is this very old guy who's somehow, like,
a star to young people,
and some people, like, it doesn't compute.
I think there's kind of a similar thing
with friend of the show, Larry David,
where some of his people his age are just like, ah,
there's like almost something
about the distance in age from him.
It makes you feel closer.
It's a weird thing.
But anyway, we live in these times
where people are very scared of cringe,
but also love cringe humor.
So, you know, it's that classic yin-yang.
It's that duality of cringe.
- I think you're really onto something.
I think for other friend of the show
and deadhead convert, Mr. Mort,
his entire brand of what he thinks is fashion
could be touched cringe.
- See, I thought- - I don't know if he'd define
it that way, but it certainly strikes me that way.
- I thought cringe was like too emotionally vulnerable
and like not self-conscious and not, you know,
just too like professional.
That's what I thought cringe was.
- Well, I think that's a form of cringe.
In another way, cringe just means uncool, right?
Like part of being cool is like,
in the original definition of cool,
it's like, like West Side Story.
And also just like, yeah, not being overly emotional.
Just being kind of laid back, not too hyped up,
not too extra, you know, just be cool.
Be cool, man.
So yeah, I think what you're saying
is absolutely one definition of cringe,
but as with all like words,
I wonder if a linguist has ever like done a paper on this.
- Oh, sure. - That like every kind
of like cool new word that's full
of a highly generationally specific meaning
and like shades of nuance that comes in at a certain moment,
on a long enough timeline,
they all kind of end up being like one of five words.
Like eventually, (beep) just means cool.
It means uncool.
You know what I mean?
Like the new words that enter the lexicon,
oftentimes it's like black teenagers invent it.
And then next thing you know,
you've got like blue check mark old white people
using it all the time on Twitter.
And you know, like lit or something,
there's something about when you first heard lit
on the internet, like rap songs,
it made it like, it felt very specific.
Whereas now as the meaning gets kind of like pounded
out of it, it's just like, like lit,
just basically just means cool.
It means like good at a certain point,
the way people use it.
And there's always a bit of tension with the original users
and how it gets played out.
But it's like, I think even with cringe,
there's a very specific meaning on the internet
and on message boards.
And there's like cringe compilations,
but like you could totally picture in like five, 10 years,
just two different people having conversations.
Somebody like, ooh, that's cringe.
And somebody is like, wait, what's cringe about it?
They're just being like, I don't know, it sucks.
- So, sorry, is the current internet definition
the one that I was proposing
or is it more the Larry David one?
Because the Larry David one seems like deliberately cringe.
- I think that there's a specific meaning
when you're talking about comedy
and cringe comedy being that sort of Larry David,
the office or the original office.
It's to make you feel that, that's deliberate.
- Yeah, yeah, that's cringe humor.
- But I say the friend of the show, Tim Heidecker,
is like a master of cringe.
Like, he's like pure, concentrated cringe.
But I think that there's this other aspect
that Ezra's getting at about putting yourself-
- Lame.
- Yeah, okay.
- So, yeah, when somebody's like, you posted cringe, bro,
they don't mean like you just told a story
of an uncomfortable situation.
They mean you're making me cringe
because you're so corny.
- Yes, that's right, right, right.
- What I'm proposing is that,
you know, just like we've talked about many times,
the dead used to be derided as essentially cringy
by cool people.
Back to the dead, man.
- It all goes back to the dead.
- You know, like we've talked about,
Kurt Cobain shitting on the dead
because the dead, they were cringy to him.
But guess what, Kurt?
You know, like you're a legend, man,
but like if we go through your (beep)
with a fine tooth comb, we'll find some cringe.
I'm sorry, but like, and it's not because you're not cool.
It's because you are cool.
- Yeah, he was sincere and he was angsty.
And so there's gonna be some cringe in there.
- Like (beep) that doesn't have a touch of cringe
usually doesn't age well because it's like,
there's no like emotional hook or something.
- It's not honest.
- Radiohead has a touch of cringe.
- Like putting yourself out there.
I don't wanna get in trouble with the head heads,
which is what you call Radiohead fans.
Because I like Radiohead.
I would even say I love some of their (beep)
and you know, for instance,
when Tom Yorke started dancing, people found that cringe.
- Oh, but he had like the man bun and he was dancing.
Yeah, that's cringe.
- Even before the man bun, he just started dancing.
And it's like, obviously there's so many sophisticated things
about the music and the production and the art and stuff.
But it's like him dancing, like,
and look, if you're so deep into that,
you kind of, you're in the world, you don't think about it.
But just imagine like,
you're trying to like just sell somebody on Radiohead
in like the early 2000s,
and you showed them a video of Tom Yorke
doing his like wild dancing.
You could picture,
whatever people would have said in the early 2000s,
you could picture somebody who is into maybe
a slightly more like buttoned up type of cool.
Like somebody who like loved, I don't know,
Lou Reed or some (beep)
being like-- - Yeah, the strokes.
Yeah. - That is cringe, bro.
Pass.
But in a way, the fact that Tom Yorke
has that vulnerability that he can put himself out there
being that dude, it actually ties into like
the deep appeal of Radiohead.
- I think it's cringe and cool.
- And also a lot of the (beep)
that like ends up really going the distance.
We've talked about the, obviously like the Eagles,
so deeply uncool,
even derided as late as the 90s with Big Lebowski.
And like, there's probably some people who are just like,
like you've talked about it, Jake,
that they could not get it to their head
that a cool young dude like you,
and maybe you're not,
you don't identify as a young, young dude anymore,
but you know, there was a time
you were a legitimately young dude
who was (beep) into the Eagles
and did not compute for people.
It was too cringe.
Which brings me to the Chunky Donkeys,
a shoe that has more than a touch of cringe,
but at a certain point, somebody like linked me to it
and I was just like, oh my God.
And then I was like, Chunky Donkeys,
that name is so (beep) up.
And then the more I thought about it,
I just couldn't stop thinking about it
because it kind of got under my skin.
It stayed with me.
That touch of cringe like,
wormed its way in my brain
and I just wanted to say it out loud.
So I was, you know, I'm just like being like,
actually this happened.
I was like, it popped into my head like later in the day.
And I was just like, to Rashid, I was like,
you hear about the Ben and Jerry's Nikes?
You know what they're called?
She was like, no, I haven't heard of that.
And I was like, they're called Chunky Donkeys.
You think I should get a pair of Chunky Donkeys?
It's like a catchy name, you know?
And now I'm kind of like,
maybe I should try to get a pair of Chunky Donkeys.
Although in this current historical moment,
the idea of like trying to get a pair of shoes,
(both laughing)
seems like so random.
Just like, doesn't make any sense.
- I just want to point out that there is also
like a very kind,
raw vegan gluten-free dessert called Chunky Donkey.
It's a brand that's sort of like mini little sweet bites.
And you're familiar with it?
- No, I did a number of crunch.
I'm not familiar with it.
But it is a brand called the Chunky Donkeys,
based I think in Florida.
- Damn, aren't times hard enough for small brands?
And then this little vegan kitchen in Florida
is getting crushed by a big old Nike.
That's (beep) up, man.
- That's buff.
- Nike, we respect you and we love your new colabs,
but come on, man.
What's in it for the Florida vegan bakers, man?
- The Grateful Dead shoes, I can't get down with,
but the Chunky Donkey, man,
there's something hooky about that shoe.
You know, ironically for the Grateful Dead shoe,
it doesn't even have a cool name,
but the Chunky Donkey, there's a musicality there.
There's a musicality in the name Chunky Donkey,
and I like to say it, and I think I might like to wear it.
And admittedly, it's not a handsome shoe.
If society begins again,
if I'm kind of strutting down the avenue
and I'm wearing the Chunky Donkeys,
it's the type of thing that a lot of people
are gonna look at and say,
"That guy's wearing a very ugly,
"not handsome pair of shoes."
But I'll only feel good about it,
not because I'm getting compliments
left, right, and center from people.
I'll feel good about it 'cause in my head,
I have this information that I'm wearing Chunky Donkeys,
and I'll have that catchy name reverberating in my skull
as I walk down the street wearing them.
And you know, maybe it's kind of a good lesson.
- Maybe when Vampire comes back,
you've brought your hair out
and you're wearing some Chunky Donkeys, dude.
(laughing)
That's a strong start.
- The whole band.
- Post-corona.
- We're doing the Chunky Donkey tour.
It's just a regular tour,
except the band's wearing Chunky Donkeys.
- It also feels sort of brutal.
It's like a leather shoe
that also is made to look like a cowhide.
- Oh, really?
- Yeah.
- Yeah. - That's weird.
- I mean, look.
- Talk about the reptiles. - I'm sure that's happened
many times, you know, some kind of cow print leather thing.
But I'm not mad at that, but again,
I do feel bad for this small bakery
who makes their own Chunky Donkeys
'cause they're vegans.
This shoe must defend them on so many levels.
- Yeah, brutal.
- Every silver lining has a chunk of dunk.
That's another idea I have to help them market this.
- Chunk of dunk.
(laughing)
♪ Every silver lining has a chunk of dunk ♪
♪ I see you've got your best out ♪
♪ Say your piece and get out ♪
♪ Yes, I get the gist of it ♪
♪ But it's all right ♪
♪ Sorry that you feel that way ♪
♪ The only thing there is to say ♪
♪ Every silver lining's got a touch of gray ♪
♪ I will get by ♪
♪ I will get by ♪
♪ I will get by ♪
♪ I will survive ♪
- Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
- It's been a nice start to the show
to talk about the Grateful Dead
and of course Ben and Jerry's and the Chunky Donkeys.
It's all kind of light, fun topics,
but of course we still are in the midst of a crisis.
So we hope everybody's doing all right.
And we just heard some sad news
that Adam Schlesinger of the band Fountains of Wayne
died from complications due to coronavirus,
which is so (beep) up and so brutal
and really sad for all his friends and family and fans.
Jake, you weren't really familiar with Fountains of Wayne?
- No, I mean, I'd heard the name obviously.
And then I don't know what,
I just, I had a huge Fountains of Wayne blind spot.
I threw it on today as soon as I saw that news.
Yeah, like their top song is Stacy's Mom, is that right?
- Yeah, you know what, actually Fountains of Wayne,
they might be an example of the type of band
whose biggest song does not capture the band's worldview,
nor what the fans like about them.
- Interesting.
- And Stacy's Mom is like, it's like a funny song.
It's kind of a novelty song, but it's like,
you know, it's like they're leaning into this like,
kind of almost satirical power pop, like metal,
Stacy's Mom, it's like a funny song.
- Like Orange County, like punk.
- Yeah, but that's not really their vibe.
And actually I remember hearing their first album
here and there, I think it was some called like
Radiation Vibe, that's more like 90s indie
meets power pop stuff.
Like you'd be, right, I think that'd be more
in your wheelhouse, Jake.
- For some reason I thought Fountains of Wayne
was super heavy and I was like, oh wait,
this is like, yeah, super poppy, kind of like Weezer-y.
Like, it sounded cool.
- I think there's moments that approach Weezer-ishness,
but their early stuff is, yeah, almost a little more
indie slacker type stuff.
But I'll be honest, I've never gotten super deep either,
but I've always felt kind of connected to them
for a couple of reasons.
One, Adam Schlesinger, he grew up one town over
from me in New Jersey.
He's from Montclair, which is the same town
that Cousin Asher's from.
And you know, just a town I spent a lot of time in.
My town was so small, so Montclair was like the real town
where you'd go to like the record store
or a restaurant or something.
And also, Fountains of Wayne was,
I wonder if I ever talked about this on the show,
I bet I have, that if you grew up in New Jersey,
especially where I'm from, on, I forget what highway it is,
it's like Route 3 or Route 17 or something,
but basically Fountains of Wayne is a very iconic store,
or I guess you might even call it an emporium in New Jersey.
It's pretty like Sopranos-y.
In fact, I wonder if they ever go to Fountains of Wayne
and the Sopranos.
I bet they have, because it's that classic kind of
Jersey lawn ornaments and fountains
and these kind of gaudy reproductions
of classical Italian sculpture.
- Okay.
- But it's the kind of stuff that if you rolled up
to somebody's house, generally speaking in modern America,
if you rolled up to somebody's house,
if you had these reproductions of a statue
of a woman with grapes and a Greek goddess or something,
it doesn't exactly read as good taste in the classical sense,
even though it's based on things, on classical sculpture.
But anyway, so when you're growing up in New Jersey,
you're always ripping down that highway
to the mall or something, so you always pass
this big-ass place, Fountains of Wayne,
and you can see the outdoor space where they have
hundreds or thousands of weird sculptures and columns
and I don't know, all this stuff that people use
to decorate their outdoor spaces, and maybe indoors too.
So Fountains of Wayne is a really famous place in New Jersey
so I actually, I always, even though I never got deep
into the music, not because I didn't (beep) with it,
but just because, just luck of the draw,
I just happened to hear some and I never got the CD
or whatever.
- Yeah, exactly.
- But there was something about the sense of humor,
just from the jump, the fact that they named themselves
Fountains of Wayne, I just felt connected to them.
I was like, these are some funny Jersey guys.
I like these guys.
And also, I remember, I feel like Jake,
you would appreciate the name of the album
that Stacey's mom is on.
Did you happen to catch that when you were listening?
- No.
- It's called Welcome Interstate Managers.
- Let's say.
- And I also just wanna point out that the American office,
which I think really kind of formalized a type of humor
of taking obviously the English office
but doing something different with it.
And I think really creating the kind of humor
of being the assistant to the regional manager kind of vibe.
- Yeah, yeah.
- Obviously the UK office already existed,
but the US one didn't air until 2005
and didn't become major until years after that.
So I wanna also shout out Fountains of Wayne.
I think the interstate manager humor,
I think they were kind of a little bit ahead of their time
naming their album that.
And I wonder how many Stacey's mom fans appreciated
that.
So anyway, yeah, I was never a huge fan,
but just the name of the band, the songs I heard,
Welcome Interstate Managers.
I always have this feeling of, I'm just like,
you know, sometimes just luck of the draw,
you didn't get deep into something,
but you always respect it.
- Totally.
- It's like your friend's friend
that you see every now and then.
You're like, man, I like that guy.
- Yeah.
- That kind of vibe.
And also, he did a lot of TV and movie stuff too.
And he was one of the writers of That Thing You Do,
the song from the movie.
- Right.
- It's about that thing you do.
That's a hell of a prompt,
is that in the mid nineties,
you got Tom Hanks coming to you saying,
I'm gonna direct a film that's about a band in the sixties.
And the entire movie is about one of their songs.
It has to follow this arc that it becomes a hit
and becomes this like big song that like overshadows
everything blah, blah.
It's not just like somebody being like,
yeah, we have a fake artist.
You need to write like seven or eight songs for them.
- Yeah, yeah.
- One song, everything rides on this song.
And it really worked.
- Yeah.
- A very catchy song.
Anyway, what's sad news, absolutely brutal.
Also, I don't know.
I don't know if we'll ever find out more details
or anything, but wasn't like a super old dude, only 52.
So (beep) up, so.
Anyway, I hope people will continue to take it
more and more seriously if they aren't already.
♪ Are you alone now ♪
♪ Did you lose the monkey ♪
♪ He gave you black days ♪
♪ Now you slouch ♪
♪ He didn't mean it ♪
♪ He's just a dummy ♪
♪ Reading Playboy ♪
♪ On your couch ♪
♪ And now it's time to say ♪
♪ What I forgot to say ♪
♪ Baby, baby, baby ♪
♪ Come on, what's wrong ♪
♪ It's a radiation vibe I'm grooving on ♪
♪ Don't it make you wanna get some sun ♪
♪ Shine on, shine on, shine on ♪
- So Jake, it's been a while since we had my friend,
and your brother, Dave Longstreth on the show.
- Yeah.
- What's been going on with him?
- You want me to give you the brother update?
- Yeah, what's the brother update?
- Dave got a new dog, which is exciting.
And Dirty Projectors put out a new EP called Windows Open.
- The first song, Overlord, came out like a few weeks ago.
And a lot of the TC heads, they immediately saw the art
was a picture of, I think, a member of the band
at your show.
- Yes, yeah, Maya.
- Your paintings are on the cover of the art
for this new EP.
- Maya, one of the members of his band,
sings all four songs on this new EP.
- This is a Maya feature.
- This is a Maya heavy EP.
And yes, it features a painting of mine
from my last show, Brick and Mortar,
called Farm Hill Road was the name of the painting.
And it's of a circuit city.
It's in like a pristine white gallery space.
And Maya is standing with her back to us,
looking at the painting.
So I'm psyched to have the painting on the cover
of this Projectors EP.
Killer.
- It's a great cover and a great collab.
Longstreath x Longstreath collab.
- Hell yeah.
So yeah, so let's get them on.
- All right, let's get Dave on the horn.
- Now, let's go to the Time Crisis Hotline.
(phone ringing)
- Hey.
- What up?
- Hey, Dave.
- Hey.
- Hey, what's up, man?
Welcome back to Time Crisis.
- Hey, thanks.
- Oh, you got a mustache?
Strong.
- Yeah.
Self-isolation mustache.
- Dave, it's funny seeing you with a stache
'cause our dad had a stache from the time I was born,
1977 until 1999,
when he showed up to my college graduation,
hopped out of the rental minivan.
- Yeah.
- Clean shaven.
Blew my mind.
- Must've blown your mind.
- So it's been two years, yeah,
of a stache and then no stache.
Nuts.
- Yeah, apparently like mom screamed when she saw it.
She didn't recognize our dad.
- Hearing you guys talk about your family,
it also makes me realize that liberal America
has really, during the COVID crisis,
has fallen in love with the rapport
of Chris and Andrew Cuomo on CNN.
- That's true.
- And that's kind of what's going on here,
is one brother is the host of an important news show.
The other one's out there in the field.
They come together on the program.
- Yep.
- Talk about serious stuff.
A little bit of lighthearted banter about mom and dad
and stuff like that.
- Yep.
- I'm not sure how I feel about it, but it's happening.
(laughing)
Well, Dave, before we talk about
your new Dirty Projectors EP,
I just gotta ask, just 'cause we were just talking about it.
Does the phrase chunky donkey mean anything to you?
- It means absolutely nothing.
- Okay.
This is probably too hard.
So let me just start by saying this is way too hard.
But if you had to backwards engineer
what this bizarre thing is that just came out,
it's called the chunky donkey.
- Yeah.
- Using whatever triggers in your mind,
the references, the etymology,
can you guess what the chunky donkeys,
I'll make it even easier.
It's not, you would probably refer to it
as the chunky donkeys.
What do you think the chunky donkeys are?
If you had to come up with something.
- Well, yeah, I mean, chunky monkey,
the Ben & Jerry's flavor, and then-
- Skinny Warmer.
- Dunkin' Donuts?
Something about Dunkin' Donuts?
- Oh, that's a great guess.
That's a great guess.
It's not Dunkin' Donuts.
It's, I'll give you a hint that Ben & Jerry's,
they operate in the food space.
The other element of this is not food.
- Damn.
The chunky donkeys.
Dunk, oh wait, wasn't there like a snack food
in the '90s called like Dunk?
- Let's get away from food.
- Yeah, there is Dunkaroos,
but I just told you it's not food.
- Dave, what's the other meaning of dunk?
- Right, in golf.
- Not golf.
(laughing)
- What?
- No, just kidding.
Okay, so, all right.
Like a basketball, Ben & Jerry's combo.
- Yep.
This is the kind of hard final part.
This is where you got to stick the landing.
This is where it gets a little strange.
And obviously basketball is not happening right now.
So it's-
- Okay.
Does this relate to when the Grateful Dead
sponsored like some Eastern European
Olympic basketball team?
- Wow.
- Weirdly, no, but that's weirdly parallel thinking
to what we were talking about.
- Yeah, so Ben & Jerry's are sponsoring,
are starting a relief fund for NBA players
who are out of work at the moment.
- Right.
NBA players are-
(laughing)
Absolutely broke and Ben & Jerry's, no, no, no.
Ben & Jerry's and the Dead both have teamed up
with a major American apparel corporation.
- Oh, Nike?
- Okay, yep.
- Wow.
Do Nike have a formal association with the word dunk?
Is that in any of their slogans or anything?
- They have a bunch of shoes that are known as dunks.
- Okay.
- And this is specifically the SB Dunk Low,
which is the skateboard dunk low.
Anyway, it's a shoe.
If I email you a picture, could you look at it as we talk?
- Mm-hmm.
- Okay, I just sent it.
- Time crisis with Ezra Koenig.
- It's your rule.
- Wow, that's kind of a beautiful shoe, right?
- Oh, okay.
- This is a beautiful, well, except for the clouds
in the back, which is too, oh, and the holes.
I'm sorry, I was sort of taking it as an abstract pattern
or a set of patterns, you know?
It's like some tie dye inside the shoe and then the outside.
- So you don't find it beautiful anymore the more you look?
- Well, like the branding is a little bit unsubtle.
No, I mean, I think that the application,
the sort of impressionistic deconstruction
of some of these Ben & Jerry's images,
you know, the green rolling hills and the blue sky.
- Exactly, exactly.
- And the black and white of the whole team,
but just like rendered abstract.
- Pretty rough.
- I don't know, I think I kind of like it.
- Dave finding the Chunky Dunky's beautiful
and Jake rough, this is just so Cuomo's.
- Wait, because is there a consensus on the program here
that these things are really hideous?
- You know what, it's like my initial instinct
was that they were hideous and the more I look at them,
I'm like drawn to them.
Look, we've been talking about it for over three hours now.
It's, if Nike and Ben & Jerry's wanted to get people
talking, they accomplished it.
Whereas this Grateful Dead shoe that came out a week later,
we talked about that for 10 minutes
and we were done with it.
Whereas the Chunky Dunky, you wanna talk about it,
you wanna get people to look at it,
and it's sticky, it's hooky, it's sticky, it's catchy.
- Right, well, here's what, I mean, for me,
I think my process was looking at it,
I thought it was, I liked it.
I just liked the way it looked.
And then the same time that I realized
that this was using only Ben & Jerry's iconography,
you guys were getting the sense on the call
that the consensus was that these things were gross.
And so there was a certain amount of group think
maybe that entered my mind where I was like,
oh, (beep) actually.
But then as I looked at them longer,
I'm just like, this is a weird, cool, colorful shoe.
I like this shoe.
For me, the worst moments are the clouds on the heels.
- I like the clouds, but-
- Can I just ask, the only person really not to weigh in
on this is Seinfeld, who wears shoes like this.
- Yeah, Seinfeld, you're actually,
you're the most hypebeast guy in a way.
- Wow, well, yeah, thanks for asking.
I can tell you, I really wanted to look at these.
(laughing)
I did stare at them for quite a while,
and ultimately I have to say that I find them ugly.
I think there's too much happening.
I think they're too busy.
And I don't like the disparate connection
between these shoes and ice cream.
So Jake, I'm on your side.
I'll also mention that earlier in the program,
I did tweet this picture of the Chunky Dunkys at Mr. Mort.
And I said, what's your take on these?
And I'm just waiting to hear back, so.
- Oh, okay, interesting.
- Yeah, so if you might hear from him-
- I'm curious what he has to say.
- Yeah, we'll see.
But personally, I'm not a fan.
The room is split on the Chunky Dunkys,
but we all, look, everybody's got an opinion.
Everybody wants to talk about it.
It struck a nerve.
It's as simple as that.
And that's what a good cultural product does,
is strike a nerve.
♪ Oh, fear is old ♪
♪ Please don't yell at the train ♪
♪ Just get aboard ♪
♪ Oh, we go forth ♪
♪ Those who stay behind ♪
♪ Will be left on the shore ♪
♪ Who could afford ♪
♪ Not to be a part of what we're pushing toward ♪
♪ Over, over, over, overload ♪
♪ Over, over, over, overload ♪
- Speaking of cultural products, congratulations.
(laughing)
- It's amazing.
- Congratulations on your new EP, Dave.
- Thank you.
- I think it's great.
And this is one thought that I had.
When I think of Dirty Projectors,
you've got such a tremendous body of work now,
as long as I've known you and even before.
Like, I don't know if you have like 200 songs.
You must have over a hundred songs,
your body of work as a songwriter.
- I don't know.
I haven't counted.
That's a good question.
- That's a good thing to do during quarantine,
get a spreadsheet going.
(laughing)
- Do you see my hat?
- Oh, Dave's wearing a hat that just says spreadsheets.
Wait, I've seen that hat before.
Is that like, who made, what's the story with that?
- I might've worn it before.
It's getting pretty worn out 'cause I love it.
It's this company called Fuzzco,
like in North Carolina or somewhere in the mid Atlantic.
They have a shop called the Pretend Store
where they just have like weird, cool things like this.
But I love this, yeah.
- Pair of chunky donkeys, a spreadsheets hat,
plain white tee, Levi's.
That's a hell of a look.
So anyway, you have such a huge body of work.
And when I think about for the lay person,
when they hear Dirty Projectors,
and I think about what comes to mind for them,
and we were actually having a conversation earlier
about like a song that maybe defines the band
to the average person, whether or not it tells
the whole story, which is kind of a different conversation.
But when I think of Dirty Projectors,
and I think a lot of people think of the kind of like,
melismatic, funky R&B side of Dirty Projectors,
and also work you've done with other people like Solange.
And that's definitely one side,
that's one important pillar of Dirty Projectors.
And then I think another one is your like,
heavy, complex guitar stuff that people have inaccurately
compared over the years to, you know,
Prog Rock and Zappa.
And I know that's not where you're coming from,
but you're kind of just like, you know, truly wild,
idiosyncratic, and sometimes like heavy,
electric guitar moments.
I think that's another important pillar of Dirty Projectors.
And I think those two, to a lot of people,
are two of the primary pillars holding up
the Dirty Projectors Greek temple.
But the third one, which has always been one of my favorites,
I'm not saying it's been ignored,
but I think it's just a little bit less talked about
than the first two, is what I would call
your kind of mellow, pastoral, acoustic side.
To me, those are the three major pillars of DPs.
Well, and maybe also like the orchestral stuff
would be a fourth.
And of course these things interact.
But I've always felt like a great through line
of your work, going back to like the really early stuff,
through, you know, the two doves on Bitta Orca.
I think the record where the pastoral DP side
really got to shine was Swing Low Magellan.
That maybe got the most of it.
And so there's a part of me when I first heard this,
when I first heard the first song "Overlord"
and I hear the, it's just the vibe.
I could probably go more into detail,
but the vibe, the acoustic guitars, the energy,
it was like, it felt very fresh,
but it reminded me of this thread I've been following
in your music for a long time.
So I just threw a lot at you.
I guess, is it accurate?
- Yeah, this is like when Rachel Maddow summarizes
the problem that they're talking about that night.
- Yeah.
- And then she's like, "Did I get that right?
Did I get that right?"
And the guess is incredibly like, "You nailed it, Rachel."
- Well, thanks for calling.
(laughing)
- Yeah, I mean, that's cool to hear you
kind of like articulate it that way.
And yeah, like having different stylistic kind of inlets
is something that Dirty Projectors have.
Yeah, I guess I was going back a ways
and to be back in that kind of like acoustic, mellow space,
to me, it's kind of like a more like domestic world,
nylon string, acoustic guitars, and-
- When you say domestic, you mean like in the home
or you were more like gross domestic product?
(laughing)
- Probably more in the home.
- That's interesting considering the times we're living in.
- Yeah, I mean, it does feel like,
like obviously we didn't really plan for this to land
in this time period, but yeah, I mean,
for once it sort of feels like the thing is ending
in a little bit of a timely way.
And yeah, it feels cool to listen to this music right now.
Like, usually like Maya and I were talking about
some of the lyrics in some of these songs
seem like they're about this era now that it's upon us,
but sometimes that just happens, you know,
there's a little bit of that
that happens with every release.
- Songs resonate different ways.
I mean, I was watching a Phish livestream last night.
They're like streaming a concert,
like an old concert once a week.
You can watch it on YouTube.
I think it's like every Tuesday night.
They're playing this song,
like a classic song of theirs called "Free."
And I don't know,
suddenly the lyrics just sounded like quarantine-ish.
Like, it's a very impressionistic song,
but there's one of the repeated lines is,
"In a minute, I'll be free."
And it's like, interesting.
It's not about,
it doesn't take place in the moment of freedom.
It takes place with, "In a minute, I'll be free."
It's like some kind of weird middle ground space.
And there is a lyric which references another Phish song,
bouncing gently around the room.
And there's just something about being in this weird space,
bouncing gently around the room,
and in a minute, I'll be free.
It's like, suddenly I heard the song differently.
Like, it's about a fantasy of freedom.
It's actually about the opposite of freedom.
It's being in an enclosed space
and waiting for that next minute when you'll be free.
And obviously that song was written, I don't know,
25 years ago.
But yeah, you start to hear stuff through quarantine ears.
- Yeah.
- And one thing about this EP
is that it's entirely sung by Maya.
- Yeah.
- So Maya's part of the Dirty Projectors live band.
Am I correct that this is the first time
she's sung on a studio recording?
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We put out like a live in studio record in December,
but I don't think she sang lead.
So yeah, this is the first time she's stepping out.
She's got the mic.
And we actually met when Dirty Projectors were looking
for a keyboard player on "Swing Low Magellan."
She was a friend of a friend,
and we met and talked,
and I think played a little music together at that point.
And then we ended up choosing Olga Bell,
amazing keyboardist and singer for that tour.
But then, yeah, so she joined in 2018.
♪ Where is the time we spend ♪
♪ Sun was too close to hold ♪
♪ What happened to the rest ♪
♪ Don't know when I let it go ♪
♪ And now the future ♪
♪ Will overtake her ♪
♪ She goes to where the light's ♪
♪ She waits and invites ♪
♪ In search for love ♪
- I had a thought.
Well, I mean, like when you guys were talking
about the meaning of music changing,
you know, at different periods of time,
I couldn't help but thinking about that new Bob Dylan song
that came out.
Have you guys checked that out?
- Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I figured that was gonna be a real tentpole moment
in this episode.
Is now the time?
- It's an epic.
♪ It was a dark day in Dallas ♪
♪ November 63 ♪
♪ A day that would have haunted him for me ♪
♪ President Kennedy was a right lie ♪
♪ Good day to be living and a good day to die ♪
♪ He had led to the slaughter like a sacrificial lamb ♪
♪ He said, "Wait a minute, boys ♪
♪ You know who I am ♪
♪ Of course we do, we know who you are" ♪
♪ Then they blew off his head ♪
♪ While he was still in the car ♪
♪ Shot down like a dog in broad daylight ♪
♪ Was a matter of timing and the timing was right ♪
♪ You got unpaid debts ♪
♪ We've come to collect ♪
♪ We're gonna kill you with hatred ♪
♪ Without any respect ♪
♪ We'll mock you and shock you ♪
♪ And we'll put it in your face ♪
♪ We've already got someone here to take your place ♪
♪ The day they blew out the brains of the king ♪
♪ Now since we're watching Owen's summer thing ♪
♪ It happened so quickly, so quick by surprise ♪
♪ Right there in front of everyone's eyes ♪
♪ Greatest magic trick ever under the sun ♪
♪ Perfectly executed, skillfully done ♪
♪ Wolfman, oh, Wolfman, oh, Wolfman, oh ♪
♪ Dub, dub, dub, dub, it's a murderous foul ♪
- Jake, how many times have you listened to MMF?
- I've listened to it three times.
And, well, yeah, I just thought that it was like,
just off the top, like a very provocative move
of him to release that song now,
as we're ramping up for this coronavirus crisis.
You know, it's a song about this sort of like,
tragic crossroads in American history.
In the song, he says that after that country has gone
into a kind of like a slow decay,
to like release that song,
and he recorded the song like 10 years ago.
- Right, he's been sitting on it.
- And then to release it now,
at the height of this global pandemic,
with Donald Trump as president,
I just thought that was like a very sneaky,
kind of provocative move.
- What do you feel like the subtext is?
That like, yeah, America entered a slow decay,
and, you know, if Trump had managed the early stages
of this crisis better,
we wouldn't be looking down the barrel we're looking down.
- I think it's much bigger than Trump.
I think he saw this like weird, fragile state
that we're in right now as like,
the perfect time to release this song,
which is like exploring the themes of like,
yeah, the slow, rotten decay and like the American soul.
- It's really interesting because when I first listened to it
I found it so, the whole thing is rooted
in the assassination of John F. Kennedy,
which happened in the early 60s, such a long time ago.
So on the one hand, it could seem fricking random,
because it's like, people are like,
oh man, Bob Dylan taking us back to the 60s,
can we stay focused on one thing, man?
And look, obviously we're all like fans of his,
but there was something about it, like, you know,
obviously like a lot of people,
my favorite Dylan is like 60s through 80s.
And this is the first song of his
that I can think of that I heard new,
like right when it came out in my adult life
where it really like stopped me in my tracks.
And there was something about it that like, I agree,
it felt so timely.
And I've been thinking about it so much
and I've listened to it a lot, like, why is that?
And it's not just a song about a tragic moment
in American history,
and this is also another moment of crisis,
it's deeper than that.
If he had written a song about like the Civil War,
like Pearl Harbor, or even if the song had been
about the fricking 1918 Spanish flu pandemic,
if it had been that timely,
it wouldn't quite hit the same way.
So this song, what's interesting about it is,
Dylan's famous for his long story songs,
and the ones that often are about a historical event,
you know, Hurricane is about the framing of the boxer,
Reuben Hurricane Carter,
that tells you a very specific story.
That's always been my favorite Dylan record, "Desire."
It has these long story songs.
That record also has a song, "Joey,"
that's about a mafia guy, a gangster.
- Born in Red Hook, Brooklyn.
- Yeah, exactly.
And it's like, and I'm sure there's creative license,
but it's a fairly straightforward story
about this guy, Joey, who was murdered.
What made them go and blow you away?
And that record also has another long-ass song
about his ex-wife, Sarah,
just talking about their whole relationship.
- I used to listen to that as well, right?
- Oh yeah, yeah.
Such a good record.
- Which is the crazy thing,
because interspersed with these more actual narratives,
you also have a few songs like "Isis,"
which are just weird, sort of surrealistic fantasies,
but also in extremely narrative form.
- Yeah, there's still stories.
And "Black Diamond Bay" weirdly seems,
I don't know if it takes place
in the Caribbean or Monte Carlo.
It almost has a James Bond vibe.
"Black Diamond Bay" is another,
but you're right, whether they're based on true events
or they're fiction, they're true story songs.
So you could imagine if you follow Dylan's work at all,
when you hear about,
"Oh, he just dropped a 16-minute song
"about the JFK assassination,"
you could picture how it would go.
Like verse one is about his inauguration
or some (beep) like that.
Or literally, like Joey, it could have been like,
"Born in Massachusetts with a father."
And he would have told the whole story,
and then he probably would have gotten shot
in verse seven and verse eight, whatever.
It would be about Jackie.
That would be like that version.
But this is an interesting mix.
It's like surreal Dylan plus story songs Dylan,
where he's kind of telling the story
of the day JFK was assassinated.
And then 80% of the song is this flight of fancy
where he's kind of addressing the radio DJ,
Wolfman Jack, and being like, "Play me this, play that."
- Play Don Henley, play Glenn Fry.
- I love how he describes the central mystery
of the JFK assassination.
- I love that too.
I love the way he does that.
- And maybe that's why,
because it is such an enduring mystery
that we'll never know the answer to.
Maybe that's why this song has to have this like vibey,
kind of not specific narrative
as opposed to like the hurricane.
But he writes it right here.
He goes, "The day they blew out the brains of the king,
thousands were watching, no one saw a thing.
It happened so quickly, so quick by surprise,
right there in front of everyone's eyes."
- It's true, it's like there's hundreds of people watching
and no one saw a thing.
- And he refers to it as like the greatest magic trick
that ever happened.
And then he has some of these lines
that get pretty close to like conspiracy theory stuff
where he's talking about he was a sacrificial lamb
and they killed him on the altar of the sun.
I'm sure there's a more mundane explanation,
but it kind of makes it sound like,
and there are conspiracy theorists who would probably say,
"Who killed JFK?"
People say all sorts of stuff.
People say the mafia,
that's kind of the Irishman thesis.
A lot of people believe it was the mafia.
Some people would believe it was like the deep state,
you know, the CIA or something.
And then other people, you know,
there's other conspiracy theorists who go deeper,
who would actually, if you ask them,
you'd probably be like, "Who killed JFK?"
And they'd be like,
"Well, it's the bloodlines of the Illuminati.
He was literally a sacrifice."
I'm not saying I believe that,
but that is a classic conspiracy theory angle
is that these world events
aren't just people jockeying for power.
It's like literally people doing like blood sacrifices
to appease their like angry pagan god or something,
which again, I don't actually believe,
but just the fact that that swirls around
this mysterious story at all is kind of like eerie.
Yeah, so I think you're dead on there, Jake,
that he's describing a mysterious event.
So the song has to be vibey and mysterious.
- Hush little children, you'll understand.
♪ The Beatles are coming, they're gonna hold your hand ♪
♪ Slide down the banister, go get your coat ♪
♪ Ferry across the mercy and go for the throne ♪
♪ There's three bums coming all dressed in rags ♪
♪ Pick up the pieces and lower the flags ♪
♪ I'm going to Woodstock, it's the Aquarian age ♪
♪ Then I'll go over to Altamont and sit near the stage ♪
♪ Put your head out the window, let the good times roll ♪
♪ There's a party going on behind the crescent door ♪
♪ Stack up the bricks, pour the cement ♪
♪ Don't say Dallas don't love you, Mr. President ♪
- And then again, back to this idea
of why would he choose to release this song now
and why, if you like it, might it resonate with you?
So Jake, you talked about,
he refers to the soul of the nation.
So that's in verse four.
He says, "What's new, pussycat?
"What I'd say," which are both songs.
Again, kind of juxtaposing kind of lightweight pop culture
with like this serious event.
And then he says, "I said the soul of the nation
"been torn away and it's beginning to go into a slow decay
"and that it's 36 hours past judgment day."
And there's something interesting about like,
I'm sure you guys have noticed a lot of times on Twitter,
over the past four years, especially,
there's been a lot of like, "Oh my God, we live in hell.
"We know that bad things happen in the world all the time."
And maybe-- - This is the worst timeline.
- This is the worst timeline.
Can the simulation stop glitching?
It's kind of corny.
It's definitely a touch of cringe.
But it's a thing that people say.
And I guess the uncharitable interpretation
is it's like generational narcissism,
where like, if you imagine all the (beep)
that the average person's, often, parents,
let alone grandparents, great-grandparents went through,
you'd be kind of like, this is actually not that bad.
But the charitable interpretation
is that there's something about the series
of events happening lately that almost feels mysterious,
that almost makes people take comfort in these ideas
that there could be an alternate timeline.
And it's a cliche.
You see in so many ways, people talking about the simulation
or the alternate timelines.
And you definitely see people being like,
maybe the Mayans were right.
'Cause remember, in 2012, there was all this talk,
which, from what I understand,
was a misinterpretation of Mayan religion and prophecies.
But there was a lot of talk about,
well, the Mayans say that the world's gonna end in 2012.
There were a lot of jokes when the day came
and the world seemed not to have ended.
And I've noticed it's become this cliche on Twitter
for people to be like, maybe the world did end in 2012.
Maybe the Mayans were right.
It's a thing people say.
But whatever we might make of the tone of these comments,
what they all are pointing to, it's a strange feeling.
And that's why this really jumps out at me,
that he says it's 36 hours past judgment day,
because on the one hand,
and I think some people who are really experiencing,
for instance, right now, the suffering
in an overcrowded hospital
where they're having to make brutal decisions,
those people probably feel
like they're living in the apocalypse.
And then for all these other people
just like kind of sitting in their houses,
watching strange, you know, these,
this almost surreal news,
which isn't just something that started this year.
People have been feeling like that for four years,
maybe 10 years, maybe since 9/11.
This feeling that it's not that we're living
in like this like book of Revelations,
crazy holy war moment.
It's not like this big giant battle for it all.
It's almost like the judgment day already happened
whenever you wanna say that was,
and we're living in the slow decay afterwards.
That almost feels like a more accurate way to describe it.
And maybe that's why,
even though it's a little corny to say,
this idea rather than saying,
"Holy (beep) we just entered the apocalypse."
You see more people saying something like,
"Have we been living in the apocalypse since 2012?
"Maybe we've been living in it since 9/11.
"Maybe this post 9/11 world,
"is that when something got weird
"and this timeline got crazy?"
And because so many people seem to feel that way,
there's something interesting about Bob Dylan,
this iconic, somewhat prophetic figure.
I think essentially what he's saying is,
well, for me, I would say that that moment started
in November, 1963.
And you see people all the time,
when Trump was elected,
that was the era of,
where you can't trust anything and people just lie.
A lot of people felt like everything was normal.
And then the Trump moment was the,
this is not normal moment.
And it's interesting for Bob Dylan to say,
"Well, I see what you're saying.
"I have a similar feeling."
I would go back all the way to the early 1960s,
because that for him, this is my interpretation,
was a moment when you realize that,
A, you weren't in control,
that thousands of people could look at something
and still not see the truth.
Just this hardcore moment where you just kind of realize
you can't trust anything.
You don't know what actually happened.
And look, everybody's gonna choose their own moment
to be like the moment when things got off the rails.
And I guess this is his.
And I think there's something interesting
about that connection.
Maybe that's why for me,
it resonates so much in these weird times,
where you have Trump as president,
where you have a national crisis,
where things are scary, but also just surreal.
And for him to talk about,
was that the moment when the magic trick began?
- Yeah.
- When some combination of the deep state,
the Illuminati, that's the conspiracy angle,
but also just the mass media
created this weird, bizarre dream state
that the modern world has lived in.
And I've seen interpretations.
I'm curious what you guys think.
So people say, "What's all the music (beep) about?"
And I've seen some people say,
"Well, he talks about a traumatic event in American history.
"And then he talks about the solace
"that we take in pop culture and music."
I see that interpretation.
I'm just like, "Ugh, that doesn't feel like Dylan to me."
Especially because he names good (beep)
and also (beep) you're like,
"Do you actually like it?
"Who knows?"
The vibe I got off of it was just like,
that rather than talking about the solace we take in music,
it's almost like the dream state,
the strange, uncanny dream state
of living through popular music or something
in a time where you don't know what to trust or something.
Yeah, what do you guys think about all the music (beep)?
- It feels very stream of conscious,
kind of what you were saying, right?
Does Bob Dylan like the Eagles?
- Yeah, yes.
- Well, you'd be surprised.
I mean, we got a TC head who emailed us
who said Bob Dylan's a big fan of Jimmy Buffett.
- That's right.
- And I (beep) with Jimmy Buffett, so I'm down with it.
People would be surprised.
- No, you're right.
And he's such an inscrutable figure in a lot of ways.
So my initial instinct would be like,
"Bob Dylan does not like the Eagles."
But then it's like, "Well, the Eagles wrote great songs.
"They were hugely successful."
Yeah, he probably likes the Eagles.
He probably likes Queen.
You know he loves Warren Zeevon.
You know he loves the Allman Brothers.
You know he loves Thelonious Monk.
So it's sort of like,
I didn't even try to interpret the music thing.
To me, it just felt like truly stream of consciousness.
Just like--
- Well, it's interesting, yeah,
talking about the magic trick as, yeah,
the creation of the spectacle.
This rabbit hole, dream world, that being the magic trick.
Because the various references to magic
throughout the song were, I thought,
like a little bit puzzling initially.
It's almost like a callback to a form of epic poetry
where you're throwing out requests.
It's kind of like Cosmic DJ haunting the FM dial.
And he's sort of calling out the greatest hits
of America's glory days as he sees them.
And he's sort of swirling everything together.
Wake up, little Susie.
Let's go for a drive.
Some lines are super elegant and beautiful
and almost remind me of the way modernist poets
would tuck pop music or vernacular language
into their very heightened way of writing.
And then other times, it's just sort of awkward
or almost funny the way he's doing it.
I'm just a Patsy, like Patsy Cline.
- I love that line.
(laughing)
- Yeah, 'cause like, yeah, it's just literally
just like Patsy, nothing deeper than that.
Maybe there's nothing about her line
that makes her a Patsy, it's just her name.
You know, like I feel like that'd be like,
people would make fun, if that was like a rap line,
people would be like, oh man,
that guy's got a lot of groaners.
♪ Send me some love and tell me it all lies ♪
♪ Throw the gun in the gutter and walk on by ♪
♪ Wake up little Susie, let's go for a drive ♪
♪ Cross the Trinity River, let's keep over line ♪
♪ Turn the radio on, don't touch the dials ♪
♪ Parkland Hospital only six more miles ♪
♪ You got me dizzy, Miss Lizzie, you fill me with lead ♪
♪ That magic bullet of yours is going to my head ♪
♪ I'm just a Patsy, like Patsy Cline ♪
- I just have to say, when you said that thing
about the Patsy, Patsy Cline line being such a groaner,
I was like, God, you're right,
if this were a rap line, if it was a lyric,
what would it be?
And I was like, there was a Drake got dragged so hard,
this line I remember that everyone talked about,
which was, I got so many chains,
I feel like chaining Tatum.
And it's like--
- Oh yeah, that was legendary.
- Basically the same line, it's just like,
there's nothing connecting the two other than the name.
And he got, and he really did, he got dragged.
It was like, this is the worst Drake lyric ever.
- Similar to Chunky Dunky,
that line really stuck in my head.
Drake's a great example of a touch of crunch.
Some people might not.
- Yeah, it is.
- But you know what's also funny with the music thing,
and I agree, it is kind of surrealist.
I don't know if you can make heads or tails
of every individual line,
but at the very least, he made a big artistic choice.
He made a song about the JFK assassination,
and it essentially comprises two threads,
information about the JFK assassination,
and lists of music.
So at the very least, we can ask,
of all the ways he could have told that story,
why did he make that interesting choice?
And I saw some people when it first came out being like,
and then he talks about,
this is kind of to me the basic interpretation,
where it's like, he talks about how death began in the '60s,
was the death of Kennedy.
And then he talks about all the amazing music
that came out of the next 20 years of popular culture.
This is the way that sometimes you see
the self-satisfied boomer interpretation
of American history and culture is like,
is like, man, we lived through some crazy (beep)
but boy, did it produce some amazing music.
Or, I'm not into the anti-boomer sentiment
because I think every generation
has a healthy number of boomers.
You know, that's my hot take.
There's a lot of Millennial boomers.
There's a lot of Gen X boomers.
There's a lot of Zoomer boomers.
But that interpretation, which is that, yeah,
the 1960s had the craziest times, but it produced music.
I think I saw one person,
and they might've just written it quickly, be like,
yeah, this is a song about the amazing, crazy ride
of history and culture that began
with the JFK assassination.
But that's simply not true.
He names music from before, during, and after 1963.
There's a part, and he even gets outside of music.
Play Buster Keaton, play Harold Lloyd.
He's talking about silent film stars
from multiple eras, generations
before JFK was assassinated.
He's talking about jazz that predated it.
So in some ways, it's like he's painting
this weird impressionistic dream
of an American existence that's full of culture and music,
but also you can't put your finger on what anything means.
You know, I guess it's a little bit of like,
what the hell am I doing here kind of vibe,
except he's talking about the whole country.
Maybe that's Bob Dylan's vibe.
Radiohead is what the hell am I doing here.
Bob Dylan's like, what the hell is America doing here?
It's not like, who am I?
It's like, what is this place?
This weird place, man, full of Satanist magic tricks,
killing the king, Buster Keaton, Glenn Frey.
It's like, that's how I interpret the Bob Dylan world.
It's just like, what is this weird place of America?
What is this culture?
- What's so amazing to me about that
is that he can really rope, it seems like,
any reference into this world
where it suddenly is in his world,
just speaking with such specificity
and these things that hang maybe as references,
like Gower, I'm just looking through the lyrics,
these things.
- Well, that's a Warren Zeevon riff.
- Okay, Carl Wilson, he's talking about the noted
music critic who lived in Toronto.
- Hilarious.
- Well, and also, the whole song ends with him saying,
"Play the bloodstained banner, play murder most foul."
And from what I see on Genius,
which people, I'm sure, will be annotating this song
for years to come,
there's not a song called "Bloodstained Banner."
Obviously, it makes you think of the star-spangled banner.
Some people think it could refer to
the Confederate flag or something.
There's a gospel song that references
the bloodstained banner.
But whatever it is, there's not a song
just called "The Bloodstained Banner."
And then he says, "Play murder most foul."
Murder most foul isn't a famous song.
Murder most foul comes from Shakespeare.
What play is it from?
Is it King Lear or something?
- I think it's Hamlet.
- Hamlet, oh, that makes more sense, yeah.
- It's a ghost saying it.
- Jake, how the (beep) do you know that?
- 'Cause I'm on Genius right now.
- Oh, word.
- Yeah, annotating Genius.
But the culture that he's referencing,
he's zooming back and forth on the timeline.
It's not a "We Didn't Start the Fire" type song,
where every verse is like a new decade.
And then he finally ends with like,
"And play Ariana Grande,"
just like a final modern reference.
(laughing)
- Yeah.
- "And play the current number one song,
"Roddy Ricch, The Box."
(laughing)
"Play me the Yankees, play me the Red Sox.
"Play me the current number one song on Apple Music,
"Roddy Ricch, The Box."
Well, that brings us up to date.
That's about culture from 1963 to 2020.
And by the way, I'll be periodically updating this song
based on new (beep) that happened.
So feel free to email me if there's some new music.
Yeah, like obviously his intention was not to like
sum up American culture post-JFK.
He's getting into this weird dream state of culture
and the truth and belief.
We'll have to revisit this song in the future.
The last thing I'll say about Dylan,
'cause we gotta move on, is just,
this is more of a macro thing,
but it's become kind of trendy a little bit
to hate on Dylan in the way that it's become fashionable
to hate on all of these 20th century figures,
especially ones associated with kind of like boomer rock,
making fun of the Beatles is a whole thing.
And I would say like, to me-
- I'm not familiar with that.
- You're not familiar with it?
Well, you know, a lot of us make fun of the Beatles
from here and there.
But to me, making fun of the Beatles, that's appropriate.
That's just like a generational,
just kind of like, "(beep) that old (beep)."
I've always taken a different take
when I see like the people being like,
"Oh, and Bob Dylan, that (beep) sucks."
And I know a few people who feel that way,
but I'm just like,
the Beatles really represent this other time.
And I can see why some people hear the Beatles and be like,
"This doesn't speak to the moment.
I'm so sick of this being propped up
as the greatest band of all time."
I can understand, even though I don't feel that way,
I can understand why somebody else might.
But I think sometimes I see the Dylan haters,
and I just, I don't know, I see them just like whiffing.
They're trying to like take down Dylan,
but they don't understand that he was a troll.
He was a hater.
He was a mysterious guy with a strange sense of humor.
It's one thing to apply kind of like modern cynicism
to the Beatles and be like, "It doesn't hold up."
But I feel like Bob Dylan is that kind of.
I just find when I see people like trying to be like,
"Oh, Bob Dylan, a 17 minute song, why do I care?"
I just feel like you guys aren't any match for him.
He's like a weird, inscrutable, mysterious guy.
And that's why he's not a relic.
I can't think of anybody else who could have dropped a song.
And again, I don't think the song is necessarily
like gonna take the box off the top of the charts
anytime soon.
- You never know. - But the reason Dylan
is able to drop a song so late in his life
and so late in the moment that still feels right
is because he's like an observer.
To me, he's never felt frozen in time in the 60s.
He's like an observer.
So when other people who try to be observers,
like witty, sarcastic people on Twitter, for instance,
try to like come for him, I just see it happening.
And I'm just like, it just seems so clunky.
Honestly, it's a bit cringe to me.
But anyway, that's enough, Dylan.
We got some more calls to get to.
Thanks for sticking around, Dave.
Everybody check out the new Dirty Projectors EP.
Yeah, man.
And we'll check in with you real soon.
Good to be here.
Yeah.
Peace.
[MUSIC - DIRTY PROJECTORS, "IN THE ROOMS"]
In the rooms where windows open to the sea.
In the terrace courts where kids are playing patiently.
In the quiet place where lots of trees to meet.
Echo up to the ceiling, memory always.
Slow the pool and high the tides, the summer breeze.
Throw the shade, care of the towering eucalyptus trees.
Pull the sets over to the oaken canopy.
Songs so far in the evening, memory always.
Now, let's go to the Time Crisis Hotline.
[PHONE RINGING]
Yo.
Hey, what's up, Mero?
What's going on, my guy?
Welcome back to Time Crisis.
Yo.
You're on one of the earliest time crisises.
Now, almost five years later, back again.
What are you doing?
You know, the usual, chilling in my crib,
smoking weed, you know what I mean, in the basement.
Quarantine, staying socially distant.
What's the vibe in New Jersey?
New Jersey's real hot.
Yeah, it's wild, because I wouldn't know.
Judging from my little cul-de-sac over here,
[BLEEP] is just regular degular.
It's wild, because I'm watching the news,
and it's like, yo, the world is ending.
Yo!
And then I go outside, and it's just like, hey, neighbor.
But we're not crossing the street no more.
We just say, what's up from across the street.
Like, yo, you telling?
I guess that's good.
It means people are taking it seriously.
Yeah, they're back home from work.
And you're part of Jersey.
And you know, we've talked-- of course, we have-- we've talked
a little bit about what's going on.
But I think, for our listeners and for everybody's
mental health, you can't be caught coronavirus 24/7.
And that's part of the reason I wanted to talk to you,
is to get a little bit of micro-reporting.
Because there's things that are still happening that have
nothing to do with the pandemic.
And so, for instance, I think this
is a very TC appropriate topic.
You had a bit of a Grateful Dead moment recently.
Yes, and I didn't even know it was the Grateful Dead.
Shout out to Apple for developing Siri
and for buying the Shazam technology,
so that I could be like, yo, Siri, what the [BLEEP]
is this [BLEEP]??
Wait, walk us through this.
We got to hear the whole story.
So just let them see.
Let me paint a picture for you.
I'm laying in bed.
I sleep like Winnie the Pooh, by the way.
I sleep in a t-shirt with no drawers on.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like, no ceilings, but no bottoms.
So I'm just laying in bed, bro.
Just trying to rest up and [BLEEP]
trying to stay out of corona's way.
Like, just back, just live my life, homeschool my children,
and do what I got to do.
And then I just hear like, driving the train, high on
cocaine.
And I hear Heather doing that singing.
You know when you sing, but you're not really a singer?
So you like sing with like your nose?
Wait, and where was she?
So was she in bed too?
No, she was in the shower.
Ah.
This was in the morning.
This is like 6 AM, dog.
All right, so you're like, you're half awake.
And anybody who's familiar with the Bodega Boys or the show
knows that Heather is your wife.
Yeah.
Who's a Jersey Jew.
Yeah.
Something I'm familiar with.
Gang, gang, gang.
All right, so it's 6 AM, half asleep.
And Heather's in the shower, and you're singing--
I'm driving that train.
Driving that train, high on cocaine.
High on cocaine.
Which means it's like, driving the train, high on cocaine.
I was like, yo, what the [BLEEP]
I was like, yo, what is this?
Is this like a new future song?
Like, what the [BLEEP] is this [BLEEP]
So then I pulled out my phone.
I pulled my phone out, and I was just like, blim, blim.
I was like, Siri, what is this [BLEEP]
So Siri got it immediately.
Siri got it right away.
I was mad surprised.
I was like, yo, I knew it was like some old waifu [BLEEP]
And I was just like, OK, Siri's going to have this on Smash.
So then Heather comes out the shower.
First of all, the shuffle, the playlist was out of control.
Because I think DMX came on right after that.
I'm not even joking.
I think it was like DMX, like ATF came on shuffle
right after that [BLEEP]
And I'm just like, oh, so you're a deadhead.
And she's like, no, my sister was.
I was like, OK, OK, cool.
Musical knowledge getting passed down
and [BLEEP] from your oldest sibling.
That's pretty lit.
But I'm like, yo, I'm about to [BLEEP] with the Grateful Dead.
Because I have-- yo, no lie, I've never consciously
heard a Grateful Dead song.
You know what I'm saying?
That's what I was going to ask you, because, you know,
I've known you for a long time.
And I feel like every time we've talked about rock music,
you're always like, yeah, yeah, Interpol.
Yeah, straight up.
[LAUGHTER]
So you're--
I'm going to pull you in.
Close, going to wrap you up tight.
Like, off rip.
I don't know if you remember this, but a long ass time ago,
I was like, yo, can you teach me how
to play this [BLEEP] on guitar?
[LAUGHTER]
Just so I could bust it out and blow people's minds.
Like, yo, who is this guy with cornrows and a Steep Tech
playing [BLEEP] Stella Was a Diver?
Stella Was a Diver.
Is that still true when anybody asks you about a rock band,
the first thing you think of is Interpol?
Apart from Interpol, there's like older [BLEEP]
like '90s, like alternative [BLEEP]
like Pearl Jam and [BLEEP] like that.
Right, Nirvana.
Even like-- yeah, Nirvana.
Even like the little one hit like Toadies and like Silver
Chair and [BLEEP] like that.
But back in the '90s, did you have like a Silver Chair CD?
Yeah, for sure.
I had a Silver Chair CD.
I had-- I really [BLEEP] with The Vines.
Like, every [INAUDIBLE] bands.
OK, so you had--
[LAUGHTER]
The Vines was not in the '90s, though.
That was like the early-- oh, it's like--
Early 2000s.
Pearl Jam airs The Strokes and Interpol.
So you have pretty good '90s, early 2000s knowledge.
But once you go back to the '60s, like--
Oh, yeah.
I don't know nothing.
It's funny, because I went to go see the Eagles in concert
we have there, because she was just like,
oh, I really want to see the Eagles
and they're playing at the Garden.
And--
Sick.
Like, I told you this story before.
We go there, and we get to MSG, and we walk in,
and the people that work there are handing out kazoos.
And I'm like, what the [BLEEP] are you handing out kazoos?
Why are they handing out kazoos?
Like, is this like a souvenir?
Is this like an Eagle--
like, I'm looking at Heather, like, for information.
Like, please, put me on.
Like, is this like a white person ritual?
Like, you play the kazoo before the band comes on?
Like, what happened?
She's like, I don't know.
But just take a kazoo and [BLEEP]
and keep moving.
So I took a kazoo, and I kept them moving.
And then James Dolan, who owns the Knicks,
and Madison Square Garden, and the Rangers,
and everything else in New York, was like, yo,
my band is opening for the Eagles.
I was like, yo, are you serious?
Oh, [BLEEP]
Yo, I was like, yo, get the [BLEEP] out of here.
So you got there early enough to see the opening act,
which was James Dolan's band.
Yes, JD and the Stray Shot.
And then I was like, yo, I don't even know who the [BLEEP]
Eagles were, bro.
I'm going to keep it funky.
I don't know.
Like, I knew some of their song.
You knew "Hotel California," right?
Yeah, I knew the song "Hotel California."
But if you were like, yo, whose song is that?
I would have been like, ah, the Rolling Stones?
I don't know.
So we get there, and then James Dolan
wraps up his little JD and the Stray Shot set or whatever.
And he's like, before we bring out the Eagles,
I want to do something.
And he literally brought out Carmelo Anthony, Amari
Stoudemire, Henrik Lundqvist, and like some other players
and was just like, they're going to play the kazoo.
And the whole thing with the kazoos
was he wanted to break the world record for the most people
playing the kazoo at the same time.
Whoa.
And I told Heather, I was like, yo,
if this is anything like what the Eagles is like, yo,
I'm going to walk out this mother [BLEEP]
And she was like, no, no, no, no, no.
Fair.
I mean, he was just trying to have a fun moment.
I mean, look, you got to be part of history.
You helped set the record.
Most kazoos ever.
So give me my plaque.
I'm waiting for the R-I-A-A.
Does it say that on your Wikipedia page?
Somebody got to update my Wikipedia page now.
I've met James Dolan.
He seems like a very nice guy.
But I understand that.
And I like the Knicks, but I've been to Knicks games with you.
I'm nowhere close to being the passionate Knicks fan
that you are.
Lifelong, hardcore Knicks fan.
So explain to me that it's a complicated relationship
between the hardcore Knicks fans and James Dolan
just because he's the owner.
And there's always tension between the owners
and the fans.
Can you explain that to me?
He has this weird reputation as being meddling
in basketball operations.
Well, isn't the problem also that the Knicks just
have sucked consistently?
If he was meddling and the Knicks were great,
then people would love him.
I mean, every team that's not doing well,
the fans always have a lot of problems with--
I love this term--
the front office.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, who is that?
That one person, is that six people?
Great term.
Who is the front office?
I think it's like--
basically, they're talking about the whole office.
I don't know why it's the front office.
Who's in the back office?
I think the back office--
for all we know, he's got the back office.
But the fans always have a problem with the front office.
Obviously, he's part of the front office as the owner.
The same way people are always like, oh my god,
the [BLEEP] defense coach on the Giants,
he ruined the season.
There's always that kind of tension.
But anyway, I guess--
so I guess to fully understand this--
He's also an easy scapegoat, too.
He's kind of like an easy person to blame for [BLEEP]..
He exercises--
Because he's not quiet.
It's the same way that people give Zuckerberg so much [BLEEP]
perhaps rightfully.
But you don't really see the same heat going towards Google
because there's no Zuckerberg.
Yeah, there's no face of Google.
There's no name.
Dolan is like the face of it.
If you asked me to name another NBA owner,
I wouldn't be able to because they only come up
when they're in trouble or something happens.
The only other owner I know of is [BLEEP] Donald Sterling.
Donald Sterling.
Yeah, exactly.
I was going to say the same thing.
More Cuban.
More Cuban, yeah, because he's like-- yeah.
But Cuban is just-- he's different.
He was like on "Shark Tank" and [BLEEP]..
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, the more famous you are, the more you're going to--
especially in something as contentious as sports,
the more extreme--
but I'm just picturing for you rolling into an Eagles concert
that you already give no [BLEEP] about,
but your connection to the Garden
is primarily as a sports fan, as a Knicks fan,
not as an Eagles fan.
And you walk in, and the owner of the Knicks is--
Telling me, demanding that I play the kazoo.
I will say, though, to me, I think that's a pro James Dolan
story because you walked in thinking,
am I going to be at a boring concert?
And you actually got to be a part of making history.
And I think--
So shout out to James Dolan.
And I think we should make sure that on Mero's Wikipedia page,
it says, in addition to all your various accomplishments,
that you also are a world record--
A world record holder.
--a world record holder.
[LAUGHTER]
Yo, but it was crazy, too, because I actually had
a great time at the Eagles concert.
I knew "Hotel California," obviously,
and then a bunch of other things.
I was like, oh, I heard this in a Ford commercial.
I remember this.
"Take It Easy."
Yeah, yes.
(SINGING) Take it easy.
Take it easy.
Yeah.
Have you checked out more "Dead"
since this Kacey Jones moment?
I have, but it's like somebody quote tweeted it
and was like, yo, this is like trap music for white people.
And I was just like, yo.
So I'm [BLEEP] with this.
That's what was interesting about your story to me
is that the thing that obviously kind of woke you up
was hearing Heather sing about cocaine.
Because generally speaking, you being primarily the rap fan,
which is known to have way more lyrics about drug dealing--
Hell yeah.
The idea that she's listening to the song that's
probably talking about cocaine, it got me thinking,
like, well, all right, obviously people
associate the music that talks about drugs and drug
dealing the most is--
there's literally people called drug rap sometimes.
But it made me think, what are the earliest songs,
well-known songs that talk about cocaine?
I mean, Kacey Jones is definitely one.
Later in the '70s, there's a JJ Cale song
that Eric Clapton covered that's just called "Cocaine."
It literally is called "Cocaine."
"Cocaine."
Yeah, that's kind of like a big classic rock radio.
And isn't there Johnny Cash?
Billy Joel with "Big Shot?"
Oh, yeah, with the--
Yeah, the "Coke in the spoon."
Something like that.
Yeah, yeah, and "Something in your nose."
Is there a Johnny Cash song that's specifically
about being on cocaine?
I don't know.
There's definitely some Greenwich Village-era folk
songs about it, though.
100%.
But even like the--
I wonder, like, the '50s--
because people always talk about, well,
cocaine's been around since the 19th century.
Sherlock Holmes did "Cocaine" in some of the books.
Oh, [BLEEP]
[LAUGHTER]
Did you know that?
You didn't know that Sherlock Holmes was riding
the red horse?
He was out here getting skis.
He's at after hours with [BLEEP]
and the Watson, like, yo.
So I think there must have been songs all through the '50s
and '60s, maybe earlier.
It also makes me think about, like, the Townes Van Zandt
song, "Waiting Around to Die."
Actually, you know what?
I want us to collab on a playlist, the three of us.
Yeah.
Mero, you could probably handle some of, like,
the '90s New York hip hop.
Oh, yeah.
And Jake will do some of the country rock.
[LAUGHTER]
The country rock.
Because actually, I feel like it's
really like a striking song.
I bet you'd like this Townes Van Zandt song.
Have you ever heard of this guy, Townes Van Zandt, by the way?
Yeah.
I was about to say, is it--
Oh, you--
--it was him at East Street?
Oh, there is-- that's a different Van Zandt.
Oh, that's the wrong Van Zandt.
That's a-- that's a--
that's Little Steven.
That's your Jersey-- that's your Jersey Pride jumping out.
Your new Jersey Pride.
Basically, this song, Townes Van Zandt,
he's basically just talking about, you know,
classic kind of country folk song, right?
He's talking about how it [BLEEP]
up his whole life is.
Basically, every verse is like, then this bad thing happened,
so I just got the hell out of town
because it seemed easier than waiting around to die.
And then the final verse is-- goes, now I'm out of prison.
I got me a friend at last.
And he don't drink or steal or cheat or lie.
And you're kind of like, all right, happy ending.
Finally, this guy got a friend who treats him right.
It's not going to rip him off.
And then it goes, his name's Codeine.
He's the nicest thing I've seen.
Together, we're going to wait-- wait around to die.
It's so dark.
He's an amazing song.
Is he alive?
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
No, he died.
So then boom.
He died in his 50s.
Yo, so then he got reincarnated as Future.
Now I believe in that [BLEEP]
Maybe.
Honestly, there's some crossover.
All right, this is going to be fun.
We're going to make this playlist for everybody.
All right, Merrill, that was awesome, man.
You got to call in more.
We're doing it like once a week now during the quarantine.
Oh, let's get it.
All right, let's do it.
All right, let's catch up soon.
I hope the family's good.
Yes, sir.
Likewise, Dad.
That's right.
Dad gang, we out of here.
Hot loose, dude.
[MUSIC - THE KING, "TIME CRISIS"]
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With Ezra Koenig.
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Welcome back to the show, New York correspondent, Despot.
Hi, guys.
I was talking about you a couple episodes ago
because somehow we started talking about the Unabomber.
And I feel like you've told this story before,
but I feel like you've never actually told it on "Time
Crisis."
You own some of his stuff.
Yeah, I was very mystified by this.
So why don't you set the record straight?
Because I think Jake and a lot of listeners
are just like, what does it mean that he owns
some of the Unabomber stuff?
Like, can you tell us the whole history of it?
Yes, I was on tour with a band called
Gratitat many years ago.
Very cool.
Yeah, those guys are cool.
And we happened to be in Montana,
which is where the guy lived.
Obviously, not at the time we were there
because he was in jail.
And I read an article in The Times
about how the FBI was auctioning off all of the Unabomber's
personal effects because they were
going to use the proceeds to benefit
the families of the victims and the living victims.
Were you happy that you got to support the victims
by buying his [BLEEP]??
That wasn't really--
you know, I feel bad for them.
But I was not motivated by that, no.
But I will say he hates, in all the newer
versions of the very poorly titled book,
"Technological Slavery," in the most recent forward,
he writes about how he hates the title,
but he was kind of powerless in being
able to change it from "Technological Slavery."
And he also writes about how there's a lot of stuff
he would have changed, but he hasn't had a chance
to make edits because he's been in the law library
at Supermax Prison trying to figure out
how to stop the sale of his personal items.
So he's really mad that they were selling it.
So he would hate that I bought the stuff.
So he probably doesn't like me.
Because he probably knows about me, because I'm one of the few
people who famously--
More prominent collectors.
Yeah, I'm sure if you Google people who own Unabomber
[BLEEP] or however you phrase it, you're going to come up.
Yeah.
So it's a coincidence that you were in Montana
right when this article drops?
Yeah.
And I was like, oh, I'd like to have some of that stuff.
And there's a website called GSA Options.
It's a government website, General Services Options.
And does that still exist right now?
Yeah, yeah.
They sell like a drug dealer's car,
or like a [BLEEP] cartel submarine,
or you know, like weird [BLEEP]
I'm looking at it now.
Do they always give you the back story?
No, no.
You have to like read between the lines
or figure it out yourself?
Some of the auctions have back stories.
Some of them don't.
I get update emails that will be like, check it out.
Brand new Learjet just went up.
And it's like, goodbye, Jet.
So yeah, I was sitting on the bus like after sound check.
And I just put bids in on a whole bunch of stuff.
And I won almost all of it.
And were you bidding on individual items?
Or you got like-- they would just sell you
a box of like a grab bag of [BLEEP]
that was in his cabin?
I was bidding on lots.
But it was like, here is a lot of all of his bags.
And it's like a backpack, a tote bag, and a duffel bag.
And then it's like, here's a lot of all his jackets.
Here are all of his tools.
You know, it was like [BLEEP] like that.
So I have the tools, the jackets, the shoes.
Then I have the crazy mask.
What was his mask?
So the mask is one of the most interesting things
because there's still a pretty popular theory
that the Unabomber is the Zodiac Killer.
Because he was in Berkeley at the time.
He was teaching there.
He drove the same model car.
Their ciphers are kind of--
Really?
Do you buy that?
Not really.
But I'd like to because then I have the Zodiac Killer's mask.
So you think it's possible?
Yeah.
There's a website called unizod.com.
That's specifically for the discussion of that.
But yeah, it's like an execution of what
you see in the drawings of the Zodiac Killer.
It's like a kind of cylindrical, handmade, like eye holes cut out.
I'll just get it if you want.
Is it easily accessible?
It'll take me like two minutes.
OK.
[MUSIC - UNIZOD, "RUN AWAY"]
All right, Deathspot has come back into frame.
Oh, my god.
That's terrible.
Hold on.
Wait, see--
I've worn it a lot.
Put it on if you want.
Yeah.
Yeah, all right.
Yeah, put it on.
Wait, for real?
"Unabomber's Possessions?"
Yeah.
That is very reminiscent of the scene in "Zodiac," the film,
the David Fincher movie, when--
When he stabs them.
Yeah, Lake Berryessa in Northern California.
Yeah.
Broad daylight, he kills those two people.
Well, didn't one survive?
No, you're right.
One lived, one died.
And he stabbed two of them.
But that's truly one of the most horrifying scenes in a movie,
like daylight horror.
Sort of like the JFK assassination in a weird way.
Oh, interesting.
Broad daylight horror.
I think about that scene a lot, too.
It is pretty terrifying.
It's like the beautiful lake--
Broad day.
--and the hills.
Yeah.
Yeah, broad day, exactly.
You know, I saw somebody else--
it must have been on Twitter-- somebody being like,
part of why "Midsommar" seems such a kind of unique movie--
Totally.
--is because it takes place in full daylight.
It's a very, like, consistent kind of milky daylight.
Daylight horror.
Wait, Death Spot, did you listen to the 17-minute Bob Dylan song?
No.
Is that new?
Strap in, dude.
There's a new 17-minute--
You didn't hear about this?
No.
It came out, like, three days ago, and it's about the JFK assassination.
Oh, I think I did see something, but yeah, I didn't hear it.
Check it out, dude.
Do you care about Bob Dylan?
Do you ever go deep on any Dylan albums?
I like Bob Dylan.
My dad listened to Bob Dylan a bunch.
You got to listen to this song and then report back to us.
It's 17 minutes.
I'm curious to know what you'll make of it.
Well, thank you for showing us the Unabomber's mask.
I'd like to end the program on a slightly lighter note.
Although, I will say, it's not that we don't talk about the terrible things
happening in the world, but I do think some time crisis listeners
enjoy listening to TC as a way to take their mind off of what's happening.
Although, the truth is, whether you're talking about something fun and light,
kind vibe, like the Grateful Dead, or you're talking about something dark,
like the Unabomber's mask, either way, you're not thinking about
what's on CNN at that moment.
So, it's two types of ways to get your mind off of [expletive].
But just on a more practical matter, for time crisis listeners,
one aspect of your life that's very well known is the fact that
in the era when people used to fly on planes,
you were known for going on long-haul flights with no book,
no movie, no video games, and just sitting there,
including some very long flights.
Yeah.
So, I imagine that in this era of quarantine,
where everybody's talking about how stir-crazy they are,
and they don't know what to do with themselves,
and people whose life, or at the very least, their schedule
was defined by going to work, or going to the coffee shop,
or going to meet friends, I imagine you might have some insight
on what it's like to just kind of sit around.
So, do you feel well-prepared for coronavirus,
and what's it been like sitting in your apartment?
I mean, I will say I sit in my apartment with the TV off,
and no music on, and nothing on, really, a lot.
What's the longest you might do that on just a day at home?
I look at my phone. So, I mean, I don't know, like an hour?
But you're looking at your phone?
Nah, I can't say an hour without looking at the phone.
Just looking at the phone?
Just as nothing.
In the middle of the day?
Yeah, just like sit on the couch, and like maybe in the sun a little,
and just sit there.
Daylight horror.
[laughter]
My daylight horror.
You're not dozing off? You're not like half-napping?
No, I take naps, but if I'm taking a nap, that's a whole other story.
That's a nap.
Middle of the day, sun lights out, you're not looking at your phone,
TV, no TV and music, and you're just sitting there thinking.
Yeah. I do it on the hammock, too. There's a hammock on the roof.
I did it today. I just laid there and looked at the sky for like an hour.
That's so tight, dude.
Thanks.
You'd be doing that regardless of the flu virus.
Yeah. I do it like now it feels more like a routine,
because I'll be like, "Better go outside and get some sun on me,"
so I lay in the hammock, you know?
I think that is important.
Vitamin D is good for your immune system, and you get that through sunlight.
Yeah.
So basically, your at-home routine hasn't changed much with quarantine?
Kind of not at all, and I feel like it's a little privileged, maybe,
to talk about when people are sort of saying,
"I don't know what everyone's complaining about, man.
I f***ing sit around alone in my house all the time."
But I imagine if you don't have access to certain things
and you don't have money, it could be a lot worse.
Yeah, or if you're crammed in a house with people and you live in one bathroom,
one fridge household.
Yeah, as you can see by the background of my FaceTime,
my apartment is gigantic.
I have a lot of mid-century modern furniture.
Didn't I see you training with a trainer?
Well, it's not trainers. It's my friend from high school.
So you keep a six-feet separation? How does this work?
It's not good.
But he has been coming over every day and working out with me in my private gym.
But supposedly you're both quarantined.
We're both otherwise quarantined, yeah.
Every day?
Every day, yeah.
We're improvising. So today we walked up and down the stairs 100 times
with 100 pounds in our hands for leg day.
Very strong.
Wait, when you're holding 100 pounds and walking up and down the stairs,
is that really difficult?
Yeah.
It's hard for me to picture. You bench like crazy amounts.
I know that you do serious workouts.
So when two dudes in a quarantine are holding 100 pounds, walking up and down stairs,
is it too hard to talk or you just be like,
"Hey, you see those new Ben & Jerry's Nikes?"
You just grunt. You talk in between sets.
But when you're doing the thing, you're pretty much just like, "Ugh!"
It's too difficult to talk.
Yeah. The other guy might be saying like, "One more flight!"
Or, "Let's go!" or whatever. I don't do that.
Tom does that.
He might say, "Let's go! You got this, bro!"
Yeah, he'll be like, "Good!"
I noticed that gym guys all kind of say the same stuff.
They like to say, "Lightweight."
When you're getting towards the end of a set and you're struggling,
they'll be like, "Let's go! Lightweight! Lightweight!"
That's nothing. You can do it.
Oh, right. They're just saying, "No big deal."
Yeah, lightweight, lightweight.
And then they like to say, if you're doing some chest exercise,
they'll be yelling, "Big chest!" at you or something like that.
"Nice chest! Big chest!"
And it's just like, "Come on. Just shut up."
It's as bad as when people are trying to figure out what to say
while they're having sex. It's the same thing.
All right. Final question.
I referenced it jokingly, but have you seen the Chunky Dunkys?
Yeah, I've seen them.
And? Thoughts?
I think a little too much going on.
I think fairly well executed as far as a thing.
They have all the Ben & Jerry's themes all together on one sneaker.
I think they're really ugly. I can't imagine ever wearing them.
But yeah, they did an all right job.
They're interesting-looking sneakers.
They're ugly as hell.
And the name, you've got to give it up. It's a great name.
Yeah, Chunky Dunky is very, very good, very clever, very inventive.
We're in agreement on that.
Well, thanks for coming through, Death Spot.
Thanks for having me.
And Time Crisis. We'll see everybody in one week.
Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
(electronic music)
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