Episode 144: Certified Forklift Operator
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Transcript
Time Crisis back again on this week's episode
We take a full cannonball deep into the waters of Tampa Bay
we talk Bob Marley his legacy his music as
well as the top five hits of 1981 and
the automotive scene of Escondido, California
Back in effect this
Crisis with Ezra Koenig
They passed me by All of those great romances
They were a felt wobbly leap of my rightful chances
My picture clear Everything seemed so easy
And so I dealt you the blow One of us had to go
Now it's different I want you to know
One of us is crying One of us is lying
We were only there
Time Crisis back again. Jake, how you doing?
Doing well. Doing well.
So now you record from your studio.
Yes. I was recording for a while in what used to be Hannah's office
and what is now our daughter's bedroom, nursery?
Office. It's now your daughter's office.
Yeah, it's her office and recording studio.
So yeah, I shifted gears over to my studio. Makes a lot of sense.
This is my big night out.
Daddy's night out.
Yeah, Daddy's night out.
So you're surrounded by your work, your paintings.
Yeah, I'm surrounded by my art. I'm basking in my own glory over here.
No, I worked today. I worked from about 10.30 to about 5.00.
We're taping this on a Wednesday at 5.30.
Worked on a painting of a Hooters all day today.
Whoa.
It's actually a painting of the first Hooters location in Florida.
And it's not like your typical cookie cutter corporate architecture.
It's sort of like a weird shack.
Not a shack, but just like a weird kind of run-down old building
that looks like it was maybe somewhere in coastal Florida,
but the Hooters signs are right on there.
They had the original logo that they never changed from the get.
It's a really gray building on a gray day,
and there's like an orange mid-80s Datsun parked right in front of the building.
And this is your first Hooters?
This is my first Hooters.
Have you ever been to one?
No.
I had to think about that for a sec. I don't think I have now.
Have you? Like on the road?
Not on the road. I think once in high school.
And actually--
That seems very high school.
Yeah, it's very high school.
But the funny thing about it is it wasn't even like just like a group of like knuckleheaded boys.
Maybe we were seniors by this time.
I think we might've like finished some big tests.
If I recall, the valedictorian at my school was a very cool person named Lee San.
For some reason, I feel like she spearheaded this initiative.
Like after like AP bio test or whatever, she was just kind of like, "We should all go to Hooters."
So I don't know. I wonder why that was her idea.
We kind of rolled, and I kind of like have zero memory of like the waitstaff.
I kind of remember like eating some wings and being kind of like, "Okay."
It was right by like the Willowbrook Mall.
It's kind of like, "Yeah, I've driven past this a lot."
It really-- My memory of it is like, it's not that different than when we had the Time Crisis Christmas party at--
What was that wings place called? That Wang's place?
Oh, Big Wang's.
Yeah, it kind of felt like going to Big Wang's.
Yeah, I mean, I wonder if they sort of oversell the sort of like, "Ooh, we have like these like busty waitresses."
They must, right? Maybe the original location in Florida, which I'm painting a picture of.
Right.
Was really like went hard with that.
But if you picture like the outlet, you know, like the 300th Hooters that's opening in the--
adjacent to the Willowbrook Mall in New Jersey.
It's like-- Right.
It seems like you would also run into some sort of like weird legal hiring thing.
Yeah, it's like, have there ever been some dudes trying to like work at Hooters and they were turned down?
Do you remember Hooters Airlines?
Oh, that sounds vaguely familiar.
No.
They tried to launch an airline.
Hooters is kind of like the Las Vegas of restaurant chains where it has this like veneer of transgression,
which in American culture doesn't take much, which is kind of like Hooters.
It's like, "We're going to what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
And then, you know, I'm sure crazy shit happens in Vegas like it happens in all American cities.
I really doubt particularly more crazy stuff happens in Vegas than say like a Cincinnati, a Birmingham, Alabama.
I think city-- weird shit happens in all cities.
But I think there's like this-- it's like it's a branding thing.
And I think that's the thing about Hooters.
People probably have some vague sense of going to a Hooters is going to be a fundamentally different experience than going to TGI Fridays.
And yet, it's all the same, more or less.
I do like the Hooters logo, the owl.
Yeah, what is that?
It's some Illuminati shit.
I don't know.
I was looking at it today and--
Oh, just because an owl hoots?
Yeah, I think so.
Oh.
It's a nice drawing of an owl.
It's like--
Anybody listening, just look up the Hooters logo right now.
It's like-- you'll probably recognize it as soon as you see it.
But it's like orange and then the two O's are the owl's eyes.
And if we didn't have such a strong association with Hooters meaning breasts and being this like sexy restaurant,
this kind of looks like it could be a 70s children's magazine.
You know what I mean?
Like cricket.
Yeah.
I'm updating one from Florida called Hooters.
And in it, there's these characters who are owls.
Yeah, it's kind of cute.
Oh, their updated logo sucks.
The new Hooters?
Classic.
Yeah, I'm just looking at it right now.
The original was cool.
It was like a drawing.
The new one just looks like clip art.
Oh, yeah.
I see the old one is actually really funky.
The old one even more has that children's magazine vibe.
It reminds me of Ranger Rick.
Yeah.
Oh, this is weird.
One of the guys that opened it was named Ed Droste.
Yo, I knew that because...
Is there a relation?
God, it's so funny.
I know this has come up many times with Ed Droste who's, you know, member of iconic indie band Grizzly Bear.
I know that I've heard Ed mentioned that the guy has the same name as him.
I seem to recall Ed saying this guy is a distant relation, actually.
That's funny.
I love the distant relations.
It reminds me of Chris Baio, Scott Baio.
Yep.
Having the same name is tight.
Right.
Yeah, the exact same name.
Or maybe they're not actually related and they're just two successful Dutch Americans.
Took different paths.
I'm just lost in the articles on these early Hooters stories.
Eight-part HBO series, TC productions of Hooters.
Ed Droste's story.
We could do like the Brian Wilson movie where we cut between two time periods
and one takes place in Florida in the 70s as one Ed Droste is trying to start Hooters
and then we cut to like mid-2000s Brooklyn where Grizzly Bear is kind of getting off the ground.
Wow.
Yeah, what was that, the show about like the Russian dynasty?
They all had the same name.
Oh, the Romanovs.
The Romanovs.
Yeah, the Mad Men guy did.
But it was all different Romanovs that had unrelated stories.
The show's just called Ed Droste.
We got to come up with like three more Ed Droste's and tell their stories.
There probably are three more Ed Droste's and you just tell their stories no matter what it is.
Yeah, why not?
There's another Ed Droste that's like grew up and lived his whole life in Plano, Texas
and like taught algebra for 35 years, two marriages.
Yep.
Tell that story.
Every Droste has a story worth telling.
The routine, the late
Just like a story
I told you I would stay
Would you hold me?
Maybe some
Make it easy
Break it down
I believe it was the last episode where we dipped our toes a little bit into Tampa Bay,
but maybe it's finally time to talk about some of the Super Bowl commercials.
And maybe because all this time has passed, it wouldn't make sense to really go too deep.
But I think there's one commercial in particular that we need to talk about.
And Seinfeld, maybe you can describe this one because this one stars Jason Alexander
who played George Costanza on the hit show Seinfeld.
You know, I'm going from memory here.
I remember being really into this commercial when it came out.
But as I recall, the commercial follows the story of a teenager's sweatshirt that he doesn't want to wash.
The sweatshirt has Jason Alexander's face on the sweatshirt.
And I believe the commercial goes through the process of all the various sort of teen life things that happen
and it gets splashed and thrown around.
And Jason Alexander's face changes as though it's a sentient sweatshirt that's reacting.
Right.
And there's a lot of frowning, like he throws the t-shirt and gets mud on it.
He's like, "Ugh."
And then the mom comes in.
I'm completely... It's been weeks since I saw this thing.
But the mom comes in and goes, "You know, we got to wash your sweatshirt or something."
And then the tide keeps it sort of like fresh.
Is that... Am I getting this right?
Yeah. Is there a line about Jason Alexander?
Does the mom say something like, "In this house, we respect Jason Alexander."
Or, "Son, how could you do this to Jason Alexander, who's the man on your sweatshirt?"
Yeah. You know, I feel like...
Can we bring it up? I don't know what the hell...
I don't think I ever saw it. This is very weird.
Was that explanation not adequate, Jake?
I'm just like, "What's happening? Jason Alexander is sentient on a sweatshirt?"
This is the time crisis, explain like a post-adult swim humor corporate commercial
to your friend, three months later challenge.
Hey, you have to wash Jason Alexander hoodie.
It looks clean to me.
Is it though?
Oh yeah, and then they use the song, which is a Seinfeld reference.
So I'm just getting audio, just for the audience.
Be sure to get the bugs off the window.
Was this in a Seinfeld episode?
Yeah, there's an episode where George...
Yeah, so this is the theme song from the Greatest American Hero TV show.
It was a show that aired in, must have been, oh, the '80s, early '80s.
The joke was that George made his answering machine be a version of this song.
You can't just wear my face.
My mom told me to say I'm sorry.
Give me back my face.
Cameo from actual Jason Alexander.
He sang, "Believe it or not, George isn't at home."
That was the joke.
Is the audio helping?
Because you're a good gauge.
If you're still not wrapping your head around this, maybe the listeners aren't either.
Here's what I'm gathering.
There was a teen boy who had a hoodie with Jason Alexander's face on it.
Yeah.
He got dirty and his mom was like, "Yo, you should wash your hoodie."
Then he's out and about, and then Jason Alexander sees his face on this kid's hoodie and is like, "Hey, you can't use my face."
Then the kid says, "My mom told me to say I'm sorry."
I think we've talked about this, but I've always been interested in tracking.
People use this very vague term of bro humor, which is maybe overly gendered.
Even these really big companies, they like to use a relatively cutting-edge humor style.
I really feel like ones like this are totally the post-Tim and Eric, post-Adult Swim type of weird meta humor.
Even the fact the way the mom says it, she doesn't say, "You owe your Jason Alexander hoodie an apology."
She says, "You owe Jason Alexander hoodie an apology."
Even something about that, that feels like such a modern phrase thing.
It's not quite the same thing, but it's like I always...
Remember there was this Nike commercial where Kanye is an audience talking to Kobe Bryant.
Rest in peace.
Kanye asks him a question and Kobe Bryant gives him this strange speech.
Kanye says, "What the f*** are you talking about, Kobe Bryant?"
He calls him by his full name.
That feels like such an Anchorman kind of joke, or a Will Ferrell kind of calling somebody by their full name.
There's something about saying, "Now you need to apologize to Jason Alexander hoodie."
Why would he be apologizing to a shirt?
Well, that's just par for the course in this kind of wacky, modern, surreal...
You can see Jason Alexander hoodie, a product by Cinco.
I feel so old and confused.
This is like our generation's humor.
Maybe it's not your generation. It's post-Gen X.
I don't know how to specifically...
This is classic TC getting in the weeds on linguistics.
Nick, you used to work at Adult Swim, so I think you know what I'm saying.
Maybe it's even before Adult Swim. It is some Will Ferrell, SNL stuff.
Couldn't you picture a Will Ferrell character on SNL getting angry and saying,
"Jason Alexander hoodie, why do you torment me? Please, Jason Alexander hoodie."
Yes, I can picture that.
It's like a late 90s, early 2000s joke.
I can picture that, but then that joke either lives or dies on Will Ferrell's performance.
It's the voice and intensity that he brings to it.
That's what makes it funny.
If it's just a flat delivery in an advertisement,
the surrealism doesn't translate.
It doesn't have the comedic value.
Because the tone of the ad is like it's an ad for Tide,
I'm demanding some sort of logic or something from it.
The thing that really got me caught up is the actual much bigger meta issue that's going on,
which is that the thing ends by saying,
"You can't use me on your sweatshirt without telling me. You didn't have my permission."
That's the ending, right, Seinfeld?
That's what he says?
He says the subtext of it.
What is the exact line?
You need legal clearance.
He says, "You can't just wear my face. That's my face."
Right, you can't just use me.
You can't just wear my face?
The commercial is just using Seinfeld.
Exactly, right.
It's so meta.
For Jason Alexander to be saying you can't,
but they're referencing the entire economy of this commercial is based on Seinfeld.
You can't use my face.
Then imagine two hands rip open the screen,
and Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld step in,
and they say, "Jason, you're being totally disingenuous.
You're being paid to appear in this commercial.
We're here to say that many of the ideas in this commercial came from our intellectual property,
the show Seinfeld, and here's an actual cease and desist order.
Leave that young man alone.
All he's doing is wearing a hoodie.
Jason, we're very disappointed."
It's an OxyClean commercial.
It turns into a different detergent commercial.
Yeah.
Lysol.
I'm a Lysol man.
Then the Kool-Aid man bursts to the wall and it turns into a Kool-Aid ad.
Well, that's very Energizer.
Do you remember those Energizer Bunny commercials where you'd be watching a car commercial
and the Energizer Bunny would like--
That was pretty cool back in the day.
It's good stuff.
It also just reminds me of a vibe that I think every generation has a little bit
where it's definitely like whoever put that commercial together is like--
There's somebody who probably grew up watching Seinfeld, probably grew up in the '90s,
and it makes me think--
We may have talked about this.
There was a commercial in the '90s for Minute Maid Orange Juice, I think,
that had the actor Robert Logea.
Does this ring a bell?
Robert Logea is a very gruff-voiced Italian-American actor.
I imagine he was in weird action movies and mob movies.
Can you guys play the Robert Logea Minute Maid ad?
Try some new Minute Maid Orange Tangerine.
It's got calcium.
Then I'm not drinking it.
Oh, no, it's sweet. You'll like it.
I don't believe you.
Well, then who would you believe?
I don't know. Robert Logea?
Whoa, Robert Logea!
Billy, your mother's right.
New Minute Maid Orange Tangerine tastes great.
It's got as much calcium as milk.
You say so, Mr. Logea.
Yeah.
This is great.
Enjoy your breakfast.
New Minute Maid Orange Tangerine. Calcium.
Yeah.
What a voice.
This is the idea of, like--
That's a great commercial and kind of ahead of its time, I think.
I love that. I mean, that really is succinct.
The dad telling the kid, "Come on, it's good. I don't believe you."
And the kid, "I don't believe you." Who would you believe?
I don't know. Robert Logea?
Wow, Robert Logea!
Like, the kid is kind of a movie buff.
Yeah.
He knows his deeper character actors.
He doesn't say Harrison Ford.
He's an 11-year-old kid who's watched Scarface many times,
but he's not interested in Al Pacino.
He's interested in Robert Logea.
That kid was actually a young Noah Baumbach.
Yeah.
The way it worked out, huh?
Don't kids universally love orange juice, too?
Like, is calcium enough of a turnoff to say, "I'm not going to drink this at all"?
I know. That's before orange juice was, like, widely discredited
and there were so many other types of juices.
Back then, orange juice was so ubiquitous and such a classic morning breakfast beverage
that kids could probably still push back on it.
Kids today would probably beg for a glass of orange juice,
and the parents would be like, "I'm not giving you all that sugar."
And yeah, obviously, Robert Logea is a deeper cut than Jason Alexander,
but it reminds me of, like, the same vibe of, like, some ad execs
picking somebody that they find kind of funny from their generation
and then having them, like, interact with, like, a younger generation.
And in that sense, like, the ads are, like, really more for, like, the parents anyway.
Yeah. They're the ones buying the OJ. They're the ones buying the Tide.
Yeah, actually, as I'm saying this, I'm like, "What am I even talking about?"
A Tide ad is not for the high school student, realistically.
Unless you're very responsible. Maybe you're helping take care of your parents for some reason.
You know, good for you if you are. It's something to make the parents laugh.
And even the parents are the ones buying the orange juice for the 10-year-old kid, so...
I like this idea of older character actors doing ads late in life.
Well, to take it back down just, like, the TC wheelhouse,
this is kind of the equivalent of, like, if we got hired to do an ad for...
What's, like, a basic household product?
The Swiffer.
Like, the Swiffer. And say the prompt was, like, "The Swiffer's, like, more fun to clean with than traditional brooms."
And mom's like, "It's your turn to do the chores," and the kid didn't want to do it.
And here's, like, the opening chords to "Hell in a Bucket," and he looks around and he's just like,
"Bob Weir?" And he's like, "Yeah, man, we're having a Swiffer jam!"
And it's just, like, Dead & Co., John Mayer, Bob Weir, all, like, and they're, you know,
they're holding Swiffers or something. Like, just some bizarre commercial like that
that's, like, an OG from a different era interacting with a child,
and the commercial's just to kind of, like, make the parents laugh at the absurdity.
Yeah. "Johnny, what do I have to do to, like, make you clean the kitchen floor as part of your Saturday morning chores?
I don't know. If you could bring Kanye West here, then I would do it."
Right, that's what it's going to be in, like, 30, in 20 years.
And then Kanye pops in for that Swiffer ad.
"Fran Lebowitz?"
"Fran Lebowitz? You work at Whataburger?"
"I do now, kid. Now listen, are you going to order or not?"
(laughter)
Acclaimed American author Jonathan Franzen.
"What are you doing at this Ace Hardware behind the counter?"
"Well, where do you think I get my ideas from, young man?"
"You can't just sit in your room all day and write. You got to be out there and living life."
Have you guys seen the Snickers "You're Not You When You're Hungry" with Richard Lewis?
Oh, yeah.
That sounds pretty good.
That's also kind of a deep cut. Yeah, whoever worked at the ad agency was like,
"I love Richard Lewis on Curb. Let's get him."
Okay, here's one thing that it makes me think of.
Do you think in our lifetimes, Trump will ever be rehabilitated enough
that he can be in, like, a funny Super Bowl ad?
Wow.
That's a great question.
I think the question is more his lifetime, right?
Yeah, right, because he could very easily kick the bucket before.
He's going to live for another 20 years, 30.
I think if he wanted to, he could absolutely be in some ironic ad.
Wait, I could--
I think he's past the hotline bling thing for himself.
Do you think our culture is sick enough that there could ever be some huge ad campaign,
almost like a Dell versus Mac type thing, where it's like two iconic people?
Imagine, like, you know, a young Gen Z person who, you know, 10 years, 15 years,
maybe it's like a cutting-edge advertiser.
They don't have all the same emotional association with this era.
Could you picture one of them being like,
"Okay, I've got an idea that's going to, like, break the Internet.
This Super Bowl, it's an ad. We need two people.
Maybe it's about, like, some dumb-ass sh*t that's just like,
'M&M's bring anybody together.'"
And one kid is like, "Okay, you know what? I think we could get both of them.
We'll have to shell out a little bit. Here's my idea.
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump."
Couldn't you picture that in, like, 15 years if they're still alive?
-Just some, like-- -Well, they're, like, 90.
And they're, like, just joking with each other,
and they're, like, some vague reference to the election.
Do you think that could happen?
Yes, and I think that you could definitely have 15 years,
Super Bowl, Coke, Pepsi challenge, it's Biden and Trump,
and they are, like, 100%.
Well, you know what's funny? I saw a clip of American Idol
where Kellyanne Conway's daughter is a contestant and doing pretty well,
and I just got, like, a brief glimpse of it,
and you see her, like, singing, and you see Kellyanne--
or no, she's standing on stage, Katy Perry and Lionel Richie are, like,
you know, they're cutting it to be really tense,
waiting to tell her if she's, like, moving to the next phase,
and then it cuts to Kellyanne Conway in the audience going like,
"Oh, oh, no," and then Lionel Richie or somebody is, like,
"You made it to the next round," and Claudia Conway's excited,
and then it cuts to Kellyanne Conway, and she's like, "Yes!"
And you just realize, like, a few months ago,
this person was, like, part of--
some people believe this person was, like, part of, like,
the most wanted terrorist who took over the U.S. government.
Obviously, she's not the same as Trump,
but there was something very surreal and kind of, like,
late American Empire about watching one of the former villains
of the past four years suddenly just being a mom,
and even she and her daughter, there was some sort of media thing
where they were-- hated each other, and her daughter was talking s--t better,
and you see them, they're on the same team, they're excited,
and then Lionel Richie and Katy Perry are there.
There's something about that where you were kind of like,
"Okay, if this can happen this year,
maybe the Trump, Hillary Clinton, Eminem ad could happen in 10."
But you guys are right, they'll be very old, so that doesn't help.
Well, and you know, like, the producers of American Idol are--
I mean, I have no idea how that works,
but I'm sure they're praying that Claudia Conway continues on
to the, you know, to the final rounds of the show.
Right, just makes it weirder and more interesting.
This is not exactly the same, but do you guys remember the Super Bowl ad?
It must have been in the late '90s at the peak of Jay Leno
and David Letterman's feud, where they appeared together
in the same commercial, and Oprah was sort of like on the couch between them.
Really?
Yeah, I remember as a kid that blew my mind,
because they like hated each other.
And just to see them in that context, it kind of--
I mean, obviously, Trump and Hillary would be a lot more inflammatory than that,
but it kind of reminds me of that.
Leno and Conan O'Brien would be more inflammatory than that.
That's a great question, though, Ezra.
Post-divorce Kanye and Kim, that one's easy to picture.
In a Super Bowl ad, just making some joke about like,
"Just 'cause it's over doesn't mean it's over."
Tootsie Roll Pops.
Some sh*t like that.
All right, we talked about the Super Bowl.
Shout out to Jason Alexander.
Shout out to Tide.
But especially, I'm mostly glad that we just remembered
the classic Robert Loja Minute Maid commercial.
That's a great ad.
So, a few weeks back, we started talking about
the fact that Bob Marley lived in Delaware.
And Jake, were you unaware of that before that episode?
Yes.
Right, so I think that was new information to you,
and we had a fun brief conversation about it on the show.
But it was a rare show where immediately afterwards,
the TC text thread was just popping,
'cause you said, "I'm still thinking about the Bob Marley in Delaware thing."
And we just kind of kept going deeper about,
like, should this actually be a film?
If so, what's the name?
It does seem like it could be, like, an Oscar-type film.
But we were just talking more and more about it and researching it,
and it's really, like, kind of stayed in the air
since we talked about it, because it is pretty fascinating.
It goes, like, fairly deep.
It's not just like, "Oh, Bob Marley once spent a week in Delaware."
This was, like, a kind of pivotal moment in his life.
So, one of the most interesting things that I found, first off,
was that not only did he work at the Chrysler Assembly Plant warehouse
in Newark, Delaware, but he drove a forklift there.
And actually, this is something that I don't think has ever actually come up on TC.
And I felt like we should talk about this for a long time.
I don't know if you guys know this, that Jake is a certified forklift operator.
Have we ever officially talked about that on the show?
In the state of California, although I bet my certification has expired.
I hope California has reciprocity with some other states, maybe Arizona.
I don't think it does.
I was certified in 2013 when I was working at a big art gallery down in Culver City.
I think if I recall, the certification is good for three or four years.
So, I let it lapse in 2017.
Well, maybe it's like a driver's license.
Maybe you don't have to do the test again. You just have to show up and...
Yeah, sign off.
So, do you actually have a card, a piece of paper, a certificate?
I did have a card. I don't think I have it anymore. I would love to find that.
Maybe it's on file at the gallery. I should give them a call.
Well, and the thing about it is, I swear that the concept of being a certified forklift operator,
I see it pop up in memes and stuff.
Yeah, just that kind of humor that's really specific and technical.
I feel like I remember seeing a meme back in the day that was a riff on Tony Hawk's pro skater video game,
except it was called Tony Hawk's Certified Forklift Operator,
and it showed a forklift going off a skate ramp.
And I just feel like it's the type of thing that people... it's like shorthand for something.
Not quite just like working man. It's like something more specific.
It's like some inside baseball kind of just like, "Oh yeah, I'm a certified forklift operator."
I don't know. It's like this weird detail.
Yeah, I mean, like any sort of lingo that is specific to an industry is inherently funny.
Right. And maybe also just the fact that you're certified.
It's just so specific. You're a certified forklift operator.
And I've definitely seen memes that are like, some dudes are lifting another forklift with a forklift.
And there's a whole genre of kind of like, "Don't tell OSHA."
Right. Memes.
I googled "certified forklift operator" meme, and the first result is,
"Exhibit from Pimp My Ride in front of a forklift."
And the caption is, "I ain't voting for a president that ain't forklift certified."
And then there's a picture of Abraham Lincoln in there.
Have there been any presidents who are forklift certified?
Uh...
Oh, George W. Bush.
Uh, that's a good guess.
No.
Jimmy Carter?
I think Carter's more likely.
George W. Bush never was like, working in a warehouse.
Or like, unloading trucks.
Biden?
Biden when he was like, 20.
In Delaware.
Bloomington, Delaware.
But back to you, Jake. Like, you were actually using a forklift to move art?
Yeah. No, to move crates off of trucks.
So like, it was a big... It is still a gallery that exists. Big gallery.
And like, a truck would pull into the back of the gallery,
and it'd be full of crates full of art that needed to be unloaded.
And there was also like, a second story of the gallery
that had a large glass sliding door that you could like,
nimbly, uh, thread the needle and load a crate through that
second story glass sliding door.
Because you couldn't bring a crate up a flight of stairs.
So, there's a lot of just like, yeah, unloading a crate
and then bringing it into the gallery or putting it...
And then also they had an offsite storage space.
So a lot of like, loading the empty crates back onto the truck,
taking it down to the offsite storage,
and then stacking the crates with a forklift that was
always down at the offsite storage.
It was fun. I mean, of all the jobs that you do
working at a gallery doing install work,
I was pretty down with the forklift role.
This is kind of a naive question, Jake, but...
So, forklifts are all about pallets, right?
Because a forklift has the two prongs,
so the prongs have to go into something.
So, when you open up a truck full of big crates,
do they already have pallets in the bottom
where you can insert the forklift?
Or a bunch of the people have to load the big crate
onto a pallet so that you can pick it up?
Generally, the crates were built with like skids at the bottom.
So they were ready to go.
Ready for the forklift to enter.
So, like, the base of the crate would be like, you know,
six inches off the ground at all times.
And there'd be three skids holding it up off the ground.
Right.
So you just slide the forks in there, boom.
Or sometimes, yeah, you'd have like a sculpture
that's been like, you know, strapped down to a pallet
or like shrink-wrapped onto a pallet or something.
Is operating a forklift difficult?
No. It's like kind of like learning like a video game controller.
You just have to get like a feel for like the subtlety of like,
I only need to move it like half an inch to the right just to like,
you just have to get a feel for like how the controls
actually move the forks.
Right.
And then also getting a feel for the angles
because the fork can tilt down, it can tilt up,
it can go side to side and it can go up and down.
So there's three variables.
Is it like high stakes?
Like if you're not quite lined up with the bottom of the crate
and you start to go into the wrong angle,
are you going to like f*** up the forklift?
Or is it going to be like, like you're hitting like the side
and is it stressful?
You're not going to mess up the forklift,
but you could easily mess up a wall or a window or, I mean, yeah,
it wouldn't take much with a really heavy crate to like do some serious damage.
Did you ever get any sticky situations operating the forklift?
No, no, I never had a, never had a on the job accident.
Oh, that's great.
Thankfully. Yeah.
I mean, that was the training.
Like the training was sort of like scared straight.
There was an old guy that just like lectured us for an hour about like,
a man died in Elk Grove, California,
because he was riding on top of the forks
and his buddy was lifting him up to like jump onto like the roof of the building
and that kind of stuff.
Like, yeah.
So they were just like, don't mess around.
That's like the first rule of forklifts is just don't f*** around.
Yeah.
Because operating it is fairly straightforward.
I think after like a couple hours of doing it, like you're, you've got it down.
I wonder if like, if forklift operators are a dying breed,
is that a job that's really threatened by automation?
I feel like I've seen footage of like futuristic factories
where it's like giant pallets are being taken by like kind of robotic forks.
I could see that.
Like some crazy, yeah, like global logistics place
that is like moving like thousands of crates a day.
Right. It can work at such a crazy efficiency.
They're just like, can you believe we used to just like hire a bunch of dudes
who would f*** a horse around and get their buddy on the forks?
[Laughter]
I mean, if they have like self-driving cars, like, I mean,
I'm sure they have self-driving forklifts, you know.
Right.
They must.
I wonder if we've talked on the show before about Facebook shirts,
the kind of seemingly algorithmically generated shirts
that have usually about a specific profession.
I feel like there's got to be some good forklift ones.
Wait, what's the Facebook shirts?
They're like these bizarre text-heavy shirts that like,
I guess they're called Facebook shirts because they're advertised a lot on Facebook.
Like they have a lot of text.
Hold on. I got to bring this up.
I'm texting the thread one right now.
Okay.
Well, you send that out, we'll say that as a result from, you know,
this boom in e-commerce because the quarantine forklift drivers
are more in demand now than ever, according to hiringlab.org.
All right. So, if we got any unemployed TC heads,
consider getting forklift certified.
Jake says it's easy.
[Laughter]
Yeah. I mean, there's got to be like tons of like small, medium-sized businesses
that aren't going to, you know, spend the money for a forklift robot.
And also probably, I imagine in a smaller offsite storage facility,
your job is not necessarily you're the forklift operator.
You probably do a lot in the factory.
And one thing you have to do is know how to drive a forklift.
Exactly.
I jumped at the opportunity to take the class and get certified.
So, I would be, you know, more useful.
So, the class was only like a lecture or did it after like a couple hours,
he's like, all right, everybody, let's go to the facility.
I want to see you in action.
I'm trying to remember. This is like eight years.
I remember it was like a Saturday morning, like before work,
it was like show up at 8 a.m., done at the gallery and like be in the parking lot.
And like they had like one of those folding tables with like the, you know,
with like the Starbucks, like carton of coffee style.
I just remember like there was like this funny, like old guy wearing suspenders
who's just like, gentlemen, like it was true, like kind of Will Ferrell kind of humor.
I'm trying to remember if he like actually taught us how to do it.
I don't remember that.
Yeah. I mean, I think you get in the forklift and he's like, okay, you push it.
If you want to go forward, you do that.
If you want to tilt it up, you do that.
You just kind of have to like play around with it for an hour
and really like get it, you know, get the hang of it.
Right.
So, I found a couple forklifts type shirts.
Like this one says, I'm a forklift operator.
I fear God and my wife. You are neither.
That's like a classic, bizarre Facebook shirt kind of thing.
And I'm sure they have that same shirt for everything.
And then this one says, everybody's a forklift operator.
And then it's like a picture of like a flaming blue skull.
And then it says, until the real forklift operator shows up.
Who is the real forklift operator? This burning skull?
It's like blue, like.
Maybe just like a certified guy.
I just found, forklift operator, my sense of humor may hurt your feelings or offend you.
I change for no one, buttercup. I suggest you buckle up.
Right. So, that is not, that just means that you're like,
you're just kind of like an angry forklift operator.
You know, this is a whole world of very bizarre shirts.
Oh, this is one for the spouse of a forklift operator.
It says, there's this forklift operator who stole my heart.
And it's a picture of a forklift and says, so I'm stealing his last name.
This is if you are marrying a man who's a forklift operator.
But again, they have these for every profession.
Forklift operator wife shirts. That is, we're in the weeds.
Deep in the weeds. So anyway, there is, there's something about being forklift certified.
It's just like, it's different than other types of certifications.
It's different than other heavy machinery. I don't know why.
Maybe because it's like, a forklift is pretty unique actually, where it's like,
if you're working down at a job site, you work in construction,
you've got cranes, excavators, bulldozers, all sorts of sh*t.
But the forklift just like, it's funny, the forklift lives inside.
It's a house cat.
Yeah, I mean, Ezra, maybe this is, you know, too close to home,
but isn't your son also a huge avid fan of forklifts?
In our household, forklifts are very popular.
And he even made up a song about a forklift once.
But yeah, like a lot of people with kids, of all genders, by the way,
it's not just little boys.
A lot of children are interested in big machinery.
My friend told me a theory that I can't fully back up,
but that the idea is that there's something hardwired into the brains
of human children to be very cognizant of -
this is how my friend described it - megafauna.
Because if you imagine the original people wandering the plains of Africa
in small groups of 30 to 40 or whatever it was, you know,
hunter-gatherers, a big part of staying alive would be to have,
from a young age, a deep interest in the various large moving things around you.
Because if you were a kid, from a very early age,
you'd be interested in knowing the difference between a lion
and a woolly mammoth and, you know, all the various big things.
And that may be to start, like, yeah, you should be fascinated by that
even before you get into, like, literally get into the weeds
and know about different plants and bugs.
Because that's so, would be such a primary danger for humans.
This is a theory that people have.
And I've noticed that it's true.
A lot of children, they are just very interested in, from the jump,
differentiating between trains and planes and helicopters.
And you'll see, Jake, that'll be a very proud moment for your child
when she first encounters the concept of a forklift.
And you can sit down and say, like, daddy's to drive one of those.
Well, I feel like I'm going to earn some real cred with your kid
when he finds out that I am a former forklift operator, certified.
Oh, absolutely. You really should try to find that certification.
You think Apple would pay for just the whole crisis crew
to go get forklift certified?
Maybe we could pick up a few hours in the offsite Apple storage facility.
Yeah. I wonder if there's like a SoCal, like, Apple warehouse.
Oh my God, we show up, they're just like, the people working there
are just like, oh my God, get the hell out of here.
They were doing this as a bit for the show.
No, no, we proved them wrong. We'd show up with Duncan.
Okay, yeah. And we spent a year there.
We paid our money to get forklift certified like everybody else.
It's kind of like the same way that people used to say,
you know, you go to law school, you're learning just about logic
and an approach to information. You don't have to be a lawyer.
People do a lot with a JD. I think the same thing is true with forklift certification.
But, uh... I mean, I'm on board.
Absolutely. I think that'd be a great use of time.
I honestly wouldn't be mad at this idea that we all have the same certification too.
It's like, do you guys need five forklifts?
Yeah. What line of work you guys in?
Radio, internet radio.
Honestly, based on what you're saying, Nick, it might not be that crazy
if we just started like a chain of like independent storage facilities,
independent warehouses.
Like, you know, maybe we get subcontracted by like one of the big companies
like Amazon one day is just like, damn, we could use some more space
in like downtown Los Angeles.
And we could be like, oh, you know, actually the time crisis guys,
they run a facility.
Right now they have a solid 5,000 square feet of extra shelving.
Could be useful for you guys.
And they'd be like, all right, we'll subcontract them out
and be like, all the guys are forklift certified.
They don't charge for the space.
They just are in it for the experience.
That's right. They pay you.
Are you allowed to listen to tunes?
Can you wear headphones as a forklift operator?
Or is that like a big no-no, Jake?
I bet that's a no-no.
But maybe they could just blast some tunes off a boom box in the whole warehouse.
Oh, definitely did that in the offsite storage facility.
It's about $18.
A certified forklift operator in 2021 is getting paid.
On the low end, it looks like $18 an hour up to 23 plus.
Oh, that's lower than I would have expected.
Yeah, that does sound low.
I mean, I guess they wouldn't even pass $50 minimum wage in this country.
So I guess 18 is not a terrible bottom.
By the way, it's not a bottom. It's the median.
Oh, it's the median.
It looks like there's some forklift certified operators that are getting paid $14.
I'd hate to think we're in that camp.
All right, you know what? Well, I've experienced.
Jake has experience.
Yeah, he pushes us up.
Okay, here's an idea. A touring forklift rodeo.
I don't really have the rest dialed in, but it's like some type of like traveling show.
It's kind of like when they bring the rodeo to Madison Square Garden, all the cowboys from Texas, rope steers.
But we would actually work out some sort of like, almost like monster trucks, but it's like forklifts.
Well, actually now I'm tying it all together.
Oh, like stunts?
There actually is a hole in the market for like some sort of like big machinery show.
The problem is that they're like slow.
Like the top speed of a forklift is like three miles an hour or something.
So it's sort of like, imagine sitting in like a set of bleachers in an auditorium watching like forklifts and they're just like crawling.
It takes like five minutes for them to get across the entire arena.
Two year olds would love it.
We'd have to throw in something fun for the older people.
This theory that my friend told me about the megafauna theory,
it's really not that crazy when you actually stop and you read a book about trucks,
you look at toys and you kind of realize like, oh yeah, that's a bus.
That's a pickup truck.
That's a cement truck.
You know, you realize there's like these things and they all have like, they're similar, but they have different shapes.
It's not that different than like seeing like a saber tooth tiger, a woolly mammoth.
And they're these big things, but they're slightly different.
They move a little differently.
God, that's really, I mean, even just like the concept of a car is weird.
I mean, you know, our daughter is one month old, and she's been in the car a few times,
but I don't think, I don't know, obviously, because it's impossible to tell what a one month old is thinking.
But it almost reminds me of like having a dog.
Like I'll put our dog in the car a lot and I'll just be like, what is the dog thinking about this car?
Like, does the dog think that we're watching TV because like we're sitting and I'm looking at this glass screen
and then the dog is just sitting in the passenger seat next to me, like looking ahead through the same screen.
Because sometimes the dog will sit with us on the couch and like not watch the TV, but just sort of stare in that direction.
I don't know. It's just, it's very trippy.
Well, yeah, I think Ezra's right.
It gets so deep.
It's this mega fauna.
Yeah.
I think it's this like, you know, if mega fauna is traditionally a elephant,
you know, you're a kid and you look at a forklift, that's like,
I mean, it feels dark to me, but that's your elephant.
Yeah.
Right, because you're surrounded by machinery in your house.
And then you see like a very large machine and that's your elephant, like Nick said.
And also, because one funny thing that also you don't think about that much is when you're in a house,
unless you live in the middle of nowhere, if you're in a house and even in the suburbs of the city,
you do constantly hear distant noises.
You hear an airplane overhead, you hear a distant siren and you hear trucks backing up.
And that is funny too, just to watch the way that a child is starting to put all those things together,
which again, taking back to the savannas of Africa, where these are important things to learn that,
you know, if you hear a distant beep, beep, beep, you're like, there's a truck.
The same way that maybe you would hear a distant cry on the savannas and you might have a sense like,
ooh, there is a pack of jackals, a pack of jackals, let's keep moving.
And it's important yet to know the sounds things make, what they're called, how they move,
how big they are, how dangerous they are.
Very important for survival.
So, yeah, anyway, as we were talking about Bob Marley being a forklift operator,
I was like, that's a cool connection to Jake, to artists.
Actually, that's a cool like deep Wikipedia list.
Artists in all mediums who have driven forklifts.
I can think of two off the top of my head, American painter, Jake Longstreth,
and Jamaican musician, Bob Marley.
But it's funny because, yeah, forklifts are popular in our house and so is Bob Marley.
So, I really felt special to find a Bob Marley song about driving a forklift,
which I'd never heard in my life and I love Bob Marley.
So, that was a fun thing.
Country music star, Alan Jackson drove a forklift for Kmart.
That's another forklift fact.
That's major.
Jake Longstreth, Alan Jackson, Bob Marley.
Probably some actors.
I can see like, I don't know, like a Bob Seger or something.
Although Bob Seger was sort of like a long hair.
Robert Radford.
Okay.
Maybe.
Kurt Vile.
Oh, Kurt Vile, that makes sense.
That's awesome.
You're in good company.
This is a good Wikipedia list.
Wait, is it actually a Wikipedia list?
No, we're putting it together.
Someone's got to start that list.
We'll make the Wikipedia list.
I see an orange shimmer on the horizon
Swallowing some airplane pulling an ad flatter
So gravity brought back my banana
But that orange is still bleeding miles above me
I see the foreign girls colonize on the college benches, babe
I see the Russian burly boyfriend shining comprehensively
I see my own lonely reflection within the very girl I love
I see his zigzag embroidered above my family
Let's get the song up.
Bob Marley wrote a song about his time working in Delaware
at the Chrysler factory and it's called Night Shift.
It was amazing to see all those threads come together.
Not only did he write a song about working in Delaware,
but he specifically shouts out driving a forklift.
You know, I was picturing this whole time with, you know,
like fantasizing about this for weeks with Bob driving a forklift in Delaware.
And I was picturing like the huge dreads the whole time.
But then I was reading some more today and he definitely had like,
it was referred to as a Sam Cooke haircut.
Oh, he didn't have long dreads at the time?
Yeah. And then when he went back to Jamaica,
he grew it out and got into Rassafarianism.
And when you have long hair, whether dreadlocks or any type of long hair,
you really got to be careful on the job site.
You can't just be letting that hang out.
You got to really tuck it up because hair and heavy machinery,
it could be a bad combo. Let me tell you.
Well, also just like mid late sixties, like working class Delaware,
like dude with dreads, like that would have been wild.
Can we listen to the song?
The sun shall not smite I by day, nor the moon by night.
And everything that I do shall be of full hand right.
And if it's all night, it got to be all right.
If it's all night, got to be all right.
Hey mama don't lose this one, you're the lucky one under the sun.
If you make me move, then you know you've got to prove.
All night, it's all right.
All right, it's coming up soon.
All night, yeah, it's all right.
Working on a forklift in the night shift.
Working on a night shift with the forklift from AM.
If you say that, why did you say that?
You'd be AM.
Working on a night shift.
Really a good song, a deep Marley cut that I didn't know.
Reggae songs that reference forklifts.
That's a short Wikipedia article.
Actually, one thought that just came in my head, Seinfeld, can I get a number crunch?
Has Bruce Springsteen ever used the word forklift in a song?
Now, let's get a number crunch.
Brought to you by Seinfeld 2000.
No, it seems like the closest is a song called Factory.
Oh yeah, it's a good song.
But I'm not seeing any forklift references in any of his lyrics.
I think I might have said this on the same episode, but Bob Marley's first show in the US was opening for Bruce Springsteen at a small club in Manhattan.
That's right.
Hey, I like that song about the forklift.
It's pretty cool.
You certified?
Yeah, man.
I took a bad Bob Marley impression.
Yeah, just like awkward small talk backstage.
I also enjoy telling the stories of working class people in my songs.
I have a lot of characters who work hard.
And Bob's like, "Okay, I'm just not going to do that."
No character, man.
I am the forklift operator.
Get out of here, man. You still certified?
Yes, only in Delaware.
I wonder if they got a reciprocal agreement in Jersey.
No, man.
Delaware only.
Well, that's too bad.
Yeah, I mean, you would think with the states being so small on the East Coast that guys might be picking up shifts in Southern Jersey, Delaware, Maryland.
You never know.
The Maryland Forklift Operators Union made sure to keep us in our place.
Let's look at the lyrics to Night Shift a little bit.
They're pretty sick.
It opens like very poetic.
"The sun shall not smite I by day, nor the moon by night."
Smite. That's like classic kind of like biblical reggae vibe.
"The sun shall not smite I by day, nor the moon by night, and everything that I do shall be full and bright."
Also, that's like just classic, like beautiful Bob Marley vibe.
He's like talking about something mundane, but with that type of like deep, like realistic optimism.
Like I said, Bob Marley is popular in my house.
I've been listening to it a lot.
Even thinking about like, you know, hearing like legend over and over again and kind of reacquainting myself with that music and seeing how like it, you know, how
touching it is to people of all ages and things like that.
And one thing that I caught about Bob Marley hearing like "No Woman, No Cry" over and over again and "Three Little Birds," which are two of his biggest songs, is that they
both have basically the same line.
That everything's gonna be alright.
You know, "No Woman, No Cry" says everything's gonna be alright, and then "Three Little Birds," "Every little thing gonna be alright."
And then you think about like "No Woman, No Cry."
I think we did a deep dive on "No Woman, No Cry" once on the show, right?
I don't remember that.
Years ago. "No Woman, No Cry" to me is one of like the most iconic live recordings.
Because the version that they have on Legend.
On Legend, it's amazing.
And it's a live version, live in London.
And the version they used to play on the radio and stuff was live.
It was that version, yeah.
The studio version of that song is not nearly as good.
No, it's very kind of uptight.
Right, it's a little stiff.
Yeah.
Quick aside, Seinfeld just sent a song lyric about forklifts from a band called "Got It By Voices."
Oh!
"Post-punk X-Man parked his forklift like a billion stars flickering from the grinder's wheel."
Very poetic.
There's also this moment of feedback on the song.
That I know, like, just back, they couldn't figure out a way to take it out.
Somewhere in here, they're just like, "Hrrr," for half a second.
Yeah.
Patient intro.
Yeah.
"No more crying, no more crying."
And the crowd noise is so, like, really helps the back and forth so much of the song.
Mm-hmm.
I think when I was a kid, this was the song and the version of this song that got me into Bob Marley.
Beautiful piece of music.
We may have done a deep dive, but that line always stands out to me, "Observing the hypocrites."
Like, it's not like a pure kind vibe song.
You know, there's sometimes people focus on the optimism of Bob Marley.
Oh, that's the feedback.
Yeah, there it is.
Yeah.
The intro to that song, yeah, such, like, beautiful storytelling.
And again, it's "No woman, no cry."
It's so easy to think of it as, like, this pat, kind of just, like, everything's going to be all right.
As if that's just, like, a kind of basic optimistic way to think about things.
And I guess it doesn't help that, like, Bob Marley, a very universal musician,
became so kind of, like, associated with the type of, like, goofy, like, snowboarding college bro.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but, like, you know, just like, "Oh, let's chill out and listen to Bob Marley."
But when you really think about that song, starting out with, like, a memory.
I remember when we used to sit in the government yard in Trenchtown.
And you're kind of like, "Oh, he's taking us back to, like, the bad old days."
Think about something negative.
And rather than just being like, "But, you know, it was beautiful."
He says, like, "And we used to observe the hypocrites who mingled with the good people we meet."
He's not looking at the past through, like, rose-colored glasses.
Even picturing whatever, you know, a working-class neighborhood,
he's still not saying, like, "And it was all just good, hard-working people in my neighborhood."
He's saying, "Yeah, you know, it was a mix of, like, good people and a bunch of f***ing hypocrites."
It's, like, such an intense thing to say.
It's not purely kind vibe.
He's saying, like, "No, some of these people were f***ing hypocrites. Couldn't count on them."
I don't know exactly why, but, you know.
- Well, I thought maybe he's referring to, like, local politicians or something.
- Maybe.
- Like, people in leadership in the community who were mingling with the good people.
I don't--you know, it's hard to say.
- Well, yeah, he doesn't get that specific.
He basically just saying, like, "It was a mixed bag."
Yeah, whoever--wherever they came from.
- Yeah.
- And also, it's like, he's remembering when they used to sit in the government yard in Trenchtown,
but presumably the song and the conversation is happening later.
And then he says something about, "In this great future, you can't forget your past,
so dry your tears," I say.
And that's also something, like, listening to Legend over and over again,
I started thinking it's like the Bob Marley lyrical relationship with time.
It's, like, semi-ironic saying, like, "Yeah, and I know we're, like, in this great future,
like, life is so--is getting better, supposedly, but, like, don't forget your past."
And it makes me think about in "Redemption Song," another classic, like, beautiful Bob song,
when there's that part of, "And don't worry about nuclear energy,
because none of them can stop the time."
That one always jumps out--
- That's such a weird lyric.
- Oh, no, no, no.
"Have no fear for atomic energy, 'cause none of them can stop the time."
- You know what's funny? I heard that song a few weeks ago, and I was like,
"Oh, my God, we should talk about this on TC."
- Oh, really? - 'Cause it's, like--
just, like, specifically that couplet, "Have no fear for atomic energy."
- Wow. We're very much on the same page.
- "None of them can stop the time."
- Well, and anyway, the point I was making--
- I mean, what--
- The reason I was thinking about "No Woman, No Cry" and the much brighter,
more fun song "Three Little Birds," which is a more optimistic song,
is that they both contain the line, "Everything's gonna be all right."
More or less. "Every little thing's gonna be all right."
And then you think about "No Woman, No Cry" is that, like,
there is this, like, darkness in it.
He's talking about the past, but he's not looking at it through rose-colored glasses
and saying, like, "Yeah, I know we got this great future."
Basically, he's saying the only thing we can do is, like,
share with each other and push on through.
And then you realize that, like, the "Everything's gonna be all right" line,
it's definitely not coming from a place of blind optimism.
It's almost like some Zen acceptance [bleep]
No matter what happens, good or bad, everything will be all right.
- Right. I mean, it feels earned. - Right.
Having been through enough [bleep] in life that you kind of understand
good or bad, everything will be all right.
Even if it's bad, it will be all right.
I love the second verse with the specificity of the cooking the cornmeal porridge.
Oh, yeah. And then we would cook cornmeal porridge, of which I'll share with you.
My feet is my only carriage I'll push on through.
I was gonna say, also, "In this great future, you can't forget your past"
reminds me a little bit of Robert Hunter.
Oh, yeah, totally.
Let's throw on a redemption song for a second.
That is a great song.
I think this was the last song Bob Marley recorded.
Oh, yeah, that sounds right.
I was going deep, and there is, like, a reggae version of this,
but somebody was like, "You know what, Bob?
It sounded great when you just played it on acoustic.
- Throw it down like that." - Oh, wow.
Old pirates, yes, they rob I
Sold I to the merchant ships
Minutes after they took I
From the bottomless pits
But my hand was made strong
By the hand of the Almighty
We forward in this generation
Triumphantly
Won't you help to sing
These songs of freedom
'Cause all I ever have
You know, this song came out in 1980.
I wonder if this song influenced Nebraska a little bit,
- like Bruce is listening to this. - Oh, wow.
'Cause this is like Bob Marley Nebraska.
Totally.
Free yourselves from mental slavery
None but yourselves can free our minds
Have no fear for atomic energy
Such an eerie line.
None of them can stop the time
How long shall they kill our prophets
While we stand aside and look
Some say it's just a part of it
We've got to fulfill the book
So Bob Marley was pro-nuclear energy.
Well, you know, and it's funny because like--
He said it right there in the song, folks.
And the tide has turned a bit on nuclear energy
'cause it used to be like a classic thing,
like, you know, no nukes,
like a classic left-wing point of view.
And increasingly you see people being like,
"You know, nuclear energy might be one of the only things
that can like actually stop the planet
from becoming totally polluted.
And if we can be smarter about how we build power plants,
maybe we actually need it."
'Cause it is one of the more efficient forms of energy.
I've noticed more and more debate.
But yeah, there's something about like--
And that's the thing about Bob Marley.
It's like so universal.
All his most classic songs,
they always have those like really specific lines
that stop them from being just like, you know,
the beautiful kind of like sing these songs of freedom thing.
- Yeah, those platitudes. - Yeah, 'cause--
- Right. - That's funny that you heard that too.
'Cause yeah, every time the song would come on,
it's always that line,
♪ Have no fear for atomic energy ♪
'Cause none of them can stop the time.
- 'Cause none of them can stop the time.
I mean, what does that mean?
- Well, that weirdly seems like some Stephen Hawking,
Albert Einstein (beep) like,
atomic energy and like E equals MC squared.
That seems like some deep--
I could feel like Bob Marley could like read up
on some like physics (beep) and like time
and splitting the atom and (beep)
but also in that next part,
another classic line that people always reference
and parody,
"How long shall they kill our prophets
while we stand aside and look?"
And then this part, "Oh, some say it's just a part of it.
We've got to fulfill the book."
I definitely don't know enough about Rastafarianism
to comment on how his faith affected this,
but I do feel like there's that,
to me, feels almost Zen vibe
and kind of like the Bob Marley worldview
is kind of like, you know,
try to like be kind, whatever,
but also like there's a little bit of like,
I don't know, maybe it's like some God's plan (beep)
like maybe all the bad things are a part of existence.
Like in prophecy, bad things have to happen for--
- Right, the Bible foretells of apocalypse
and judgment day and--
- Right, maybe you just got to roll with it.
- Real end of the world kind of stuff.
You got to fulfill the book.
- You got to fulfill the book, man.
Very deep, dude.
I mean, actually, you know,
we haven't talked about him in a long time,
but he's just like a real like OG time crisis.
He's a core crisis musician
'cause remember back in the day,
money make you rich?
- Yeah.
Well, there's not a lot of information
on the internet about his time in Delaware.
It's pretty scant and it's pretty repetitive.
Like the kind of people are just cutting and pasting
the same articles on different websites.
But so I was trying to read more as much
as I could about it today.
And I definitely kept thinking about him
in the break room at the Chrysler plant
and like this like Frank Sabatka dude rolling up
and then Bob being like,
"What, you think money make you rich?"
And then him just being like,
"Uh, yeah, pal, I do, okay?"
- Yeah.
- I think money does make me rich.
- Welcome to America, Bob.
- I did find a quote from Bob though,
talking about Delaware.
He's not a big fan,
although he did live there intermittently.
That's also very like,
there's no like official account
on like when he was in Wilmington.
- Right.
We know that his mom had a house moved there
and we know his son, Stephen, was born there in '72.
- Yes.
His mom like remarried after his dad died
and moved there in '66.
We know that.
And then the state of Bob Marley says
that he lived in Wilmington on and off
between '66 and '78.
- That's a huge amount.
But he was also touring the world in that period.
- Right.
I mean, yeah, 'cause he had had like a,
I think some like moderate success in Jamaica
in the mid '60s and then had left for a little bit.
But anyway, he wrote about Delaware.
"Everything was too fast, too noisy, too rush, rush."
- Whoa.
- But he was going there to earn money
to start his own label
because he had gotten into some like hot water
with some like,
just like some kind of sharky music industry people
down in Jamaica.
- Oh, damn.
- Who were trying to screw him over.
And he was like, "I wanna start my own label."
So yeah, that's why he was driving a forklift
in Wilmington.
- And also, if we got any Delawareans listening,
sometimes people clown on Delaware
as being a boring state.
I don't personally feel that way.
But I remember in the film "Wayne's World,"
they make a joke at Delaware's expense
where they imply that Delaware's a boring place.
But if you ever feel like you live in Delaware,
specifically Wilmington,
and you feel like, "Oh, I wanna move to a bigger city,
"Baltimore, Philly, somewhere else in the mid-Atlantic,"
just remember that it's all relative.
'Cause when Bob Marley came to Wilmington,
he was actually like, "This (beep) is too fast-paced."
- He also worked briefly as a lab assistant for DuPont,
like for a DuPont chemical lab.
So it's just picturing him like coming up to America
and just getting these like very corporate jobs.
- Right.
- It's bizarre.
It's not that like he like,
"Oh, picked up some like shifts,
"like doing carpentry with like a buddy or like,
"I don't know, even was like maybe like apprenticing
"to be like an electrician or something."
It was just like, just straight up like
harsh like corporate shifts.
- That's wild, DuPont and Chrysler.
And also just, I think part of the reason
that the Bob Marley in Delaware thing
is fascinating for us is that it's,
there's a lot of musicians who start out
working regular jobs before they make it big.
Like maybe we find out that, you know,
I don't know, Mick Jagger worked at the local library
when he was 15, you know, like.
- Yeah, sure.
He had a life before he was famous.
But I think the interesting thing about Bob Marley is,
well, not only is there the huge cultural shift
of coming to a different country,
this is a dude who had been playing music
from a young age, even before reggae was a thing.
He was in these like bands with Peter Tosh
when they were young.
So this is a dude who'd been releasing like records
and having like regional success in Jamaica
for like five or six years.
So he's hitting this point in his 20s,
which a lot of people hit, especially artists,
where maybe you did do some cool stuff as an artist.
He hits this moment where he's like,
you're saying that he got in some trouble
or having industry problems.
So this is a dude who rolls to Delaware
to get this job who'd been playing
and recording music for years and having some success.
So it's like that image to me is way more striking
than just like young Mick Jagger having a job.
Yeah, everybody, most people have jobs.
- No, yeah, it'd be like if like Mick Jagger
and like Keith Richards had made like a few records
and then like Mick Jagger moves to like Omaha, Nebraska
and like works on and off for a few years
at like a slaughterhouse and then like goes back
and like the stones really get going again.
It'd be very weird.
- Yeah, like he had to take time off from his passion
and in this like kind of strange place.
Yeah, and like also you think like what's going
through his head?
Is there a part of him that's like,
damn, what if I never actually go back to Jamaica?
What if I am just like a forklift operator here?
Also, we haven't talked about it,
but the fact that it's the night shift
just makes it even more surreal.
It's like not only is this moderately successful
Jamaican musician suddenly in Wilmington, Delaware,
he's just like driving a forklift at night.
I'm sure in his head he was probably like,
I'm in a strange land and this could be my life.
- I reread his very lengthy obituary
from Rolling Stone from '81
and there were some good details I did find.
Okay, so he went by Donald Marley on his paychecks
and then there were some quotes from his mom.
"The introverted singer made very few friends
"in Wilmington, preferring to merely tolerate the present
"and fantasize about the future.
"In his mother's words, he was lost
"without his musician friends.
"On weekends, he lolled around the house
"picking out simple melodies on a cheap acoustic guitar
"and writing lyrics in a little book
"in combination diary and songwriting ledger
"that he guarded judiciously."
And then one of the songs that emerged
was an early version of Night Shift.
- Wow.
- But just, yeah, thinking about him,
he did five straight shifts of the night shift
and now it's just like Saturday
and he's just hanging around his mom's house in Wilmington.
- Doesn't know a lot of people.
- On the couch, like listlessly,
like picking out little melodies and like--
- Just hitting on his mom's couch.
- "Mom, what are you doing?"
"I'm writing my songs!"
Just like, "Leave me alone, Mom."
♪ Working on the night shift ♪
♪ Driving a forklift ♪
Just on the acoustic on mom's couch.
- Matt sent this note that sort of the,
I mean, it's a pretty sort of brutal vibe.
So at the Chrysler plant during this time,
the atmosphere was hostile and the KKK
would openly advertise their meetings on the bulletin board
in this sort of common space.
- Jesus. - Jesus.
- And that the grand dragon of that Delaware KKK
was a member of the union.
I mean, this is like a-- - What?
- That's heavy.
- That is heavy.
Jesus. - Right.
So yeah, understandable that maybe he was laying low.
- Yeah.
- Not a good vibe for like making friends
and yikes.
Yeah, so truly a bizarre time, hostile environment,
and then headed back to Jamaica.
It is a cool source of pride for Delaware and Wilmington.
I was researching, there's a park called One Love Park
and some people, some of whom knew him back in the day,
there is like a kind of reggae festival there sometimes.
So it's cool.
That is a cool like source of pride for--
- Right.
There was an anecdote that he was like his one,
like one of the guys he made friends with
who was a neighbor who tried to get him to go to Woodstock.
- Oh yeah, that's a great story.
- His neighbor was like, "Dude, I'm going to Woodstock."
And like, I think his neighbor was like making merch
or something or making something.
It was like, "Dude, let's go."
And like Bob was just like, "No, I'm gonna hang back."
- That is pretty, yeah, just Bob Marley in Delaware.
- Woodstock weekend, like, "No, I'm good."
- Bob, come on, this is like huge.
This is like once in a lifetime thing
and he's just like, "Who's playing?"
"Um, Grateful Dead."
- "Grateful Dead, man, can't heat."
(laughing)
- Jefferson Airplane.
I wonder how familiar Bob was with that music.
Maybe he just didn't like the lineup.
- He's like, "I love Buddy Holly and the Everly Brothers,
but I don't know about this, like,
psychedelic rock coming out of SF."
- I don't like that sound, man.
Bob Marley could have been just in that field
watching Jimi Hendrix.
So close.
(rock music)
# #
And of course, this whole inquiry really just begs the fantasy of Bob Marley, Joe Biden running.
Not impossible.
I mean, Bob's mom ran a Jamaican gift store, kind of touristy, on this main strip in Wilmington.
I mean, maybe Joe popped in, bought a nice ceramic coffee mug or something.
Didn't Joe Biden's administration just fire every staffer who had legally used marijuana?
I saw some reference to that. That was so bizarre.
I couldn't understand it because I read this article twice, and I kept looking.
I was like, wait, wait, did a bunch of people light up in the White House in the West Wing?
It was like they purged people who smoked weed.
And then the more I read it, it was like it almost seems too crazy to be true,
staffers who voluntarily admitted in their paperwork that they had smoked weed in their life were then fired.
There's got to be more to the story.
Like, just imagine, because it seemed like some of these people are really blindsided.
They're like, yeah, I was just being honest.
I have smoked weed in my life. I don't regularly smoke weed.
And then they hired me. And then six months later, they're like, wait, so we looked at your file again.
It says here that you smoked weed six years ago. Pack your s***.
What? That's brutal. I mean, there's got to be more to the story.
But even if there is, it's sort of like what?
I think the more to the story is that there was an encounter, late 60s, Biden and forklift operator Bob Marley,
Donald Marley, get into it. And since then, he's been holding this grudge against marijuana smokers.
Maybe Joe Biden's jealous that honestly, even becoming president, Bob Marley still remains the most famous Delaware resident of all time.
Like, it's not even close. Like Biden's brief run at being president, it doesn't even edge him that much closer,
especially like in 10 years when people remember. That's a funny one.
Look back on like Biden. I'm not making any predictions here, but a lot of people think for various reasons he might be a one term president.
Who knows? Sure. But even if he's a two term president, just like, you know, he's Biden, like did his thing.
I'm not saying he didn't have a huge impact. Already he's had a huge impact with some of the legislation.
You know, shout out for the. I hear what you're saying, though.
It's like right now, I bet Bob and Biden are pretty neck and neck in terms of global fame.
But give it another 20 years and Bob will be right back on top.
Well, it's like imagine if I don't know why this would have happened, but imagine if when George H.W. Bush took office in 1989,
he said to himself, I'm finally president. I'm more famous than Bob Marley.
And I guess, yeah, you're right. He might have been correct in that moment.
But the idea that George H.W. Bush is more famous than Bob Marley, get out of here.
No way. Not even in America, let alone. That's a funny question.
It's like what presidents are more famous than Bob Marley? Donald Trump, probably Obama, maybe Bill Clinton.
Maybe he's like, I think we start to get into. Yeah, I think I think Bob Marley is more famous than Ronald Reagan.
Barely, barely. He has a higher Q score. He's more famous than Jimmy Carter.
Definitely. Definitely. He's more famous than George H.W. More famous. Cool metric.
But with a cool metric for musicians and politicians. It's all the same, man. They're all just celebrities now.
But oh, man, in the court, according to Delaware Online. Yes.
The most famous person from Delaware is actually Aubrey Plaza.
OK, well, I mean, I'm going to say Joe Biden is more famous than Aubrey Plaza.
Look, I'm telling you what Delaware what the. Yeah, but when's that article with Delaware Online dot com?
When's that article from? I'm not saying that from six years ago.
No, even during when he's he's he's six. Joe Biden is sixth on the list.
What? Who else is 2018? So still. So they're not going to include Bob Marley.
Right. Because they don't because he's he was only a resident. Well, this isn't yet.
So who's the top now? Who else is on the list? I'm like George Thurgood.
Clifford Brown is number two. So I'm not sure what's going on. Dallas Green is number three.
I don't even know these people. I don't know who these people are.
Elena Della Dona Del is a woman's Elena Del Delaware. Bill Press.
This is Joe Biden. So this is so engassed. George Thurgood is number seven.
OK, so I'm sorry. Delaware. Dan Pfeiffer, the director of Barack Obama's 2008 campaign.
Elizabeth Schu's number nine. She's more famous than Dan Pfeiffer. This makes no sense.
Oh, Henry Heimlich. Henry Heimlich, who invented the Heimlich maneuver. That's a good one.
OK, as this was voted on by news journal readers, Delaware News Journal readers.
OK, so there's a lot of like Dela. You know, you can't always.
They don't know how the rest of the world sees these people. That's a very inside Delaware perspective.
That's like just wanting to go for a deep cut or something like thinking that's cool to say it's Henry Heimlich.
Who do you think is more famous, Aubrey Plaza or George Thurgood?
I think that's pretty neck and neck. No different demographics.
People over age 45 are going to know George Thurgood more than Aubrey Plaza.
But more people know who she is. Interestingly, I don't know.
I would say there's a footnote to the article that says, to be fair, Bob Marley technically got the most write ins,
but we had to rule they had a rule excluding him from contention.
Oh, there you go. Along with anyone else who briefly just briefly spent a time in Delaware.
So that's interesting. Clearly, it's Bob Marley by a mile.
Bob Marley is the most famous Delaware resident of all time.
And yeah, you could get in. You could say, well, but he's not from there.
He only lived there part time, but it's a small state.
There aren't that many people who just it's not like New York where people go for school or go to live for a couple of years or something.
It's Delaware. You know, it's very notable that Bob lived there at all.
And sorry, Joe Biden, even now with Joe Biden as president, I think Bob Marley is the most famous Delaware resident.
And I think for Joe to lash out by punishing a few humble weed smokers in his administration as some sort of like weird
Bob Marley jab, I think is pathetic. Not cool, Joe.
Now, you know, Kamala Harris is of partial Jamaican descent.
Do you think she knows that Bob Marley lived in Delaware?
The same state as Joe? I'm going to guess no.
We did it, Joe. By the way, we did it, Joe.
You're now the most famous Delaware resident. You beat out Bob Marley.
Apparently, former first lady Laura Bush is a big Bob Marley fan.
Really? Yeah, her daughter was on the Today Show. I guess she was a Today Show host.
Very cool, Laura.
Yeah, she said her mother is a "secret Rastafarian," has tons of Bob Marley and Jimmy Cliff music that she plays at the family ranch in Crawford, Texas.
OK. Oh, wait, this reminds me. Oh, my God. I can't believe I never told this story.
So a good friend of mine from college, her mom was sorority sisters with Laura Bush, you know, like before she was married to George Bush.
Well, they stayed in touch and like were friends. Didn't share the same politics as time went on.
But my friend remembers like George and Laura visiting their house in Colorado in the 80s.
And then when George W. Bush was president, Laura invited her old friend, my friend's mom, to visit the White House.
And she did. And she my friend had a band at the time called the Badger King.
And she brought a CD of the Badger King and gave it to George W. Bush and Laura Bush.
Saying this is my daughter's band? Yes.
What kind of music is the Badger King?
Um, like kind of like proggy indie.
OK. A little mad. It's up on.
Yeah, a little bit like some weird chord changes and time signature shifts and whatnot.
But I remember I don't know if it's online.
I remember he's like, whoa, is that a measure of seven?
Wow. Really surprised me.
Oh, wow. I was tapping my foot. I think they threw in a thing.
They threw in a measure of a nine six. Whoa.
I like that. It's complicated stuff, man. It's complicated stuff. I like it.
And was there any follow up? They check it out.
I don't know. I definitely remember laughing us laughing about the idea of George W. Bush putting on the Badger King album.
Oh, it's on Apple Music. All right.
Let's bring it up. Matt found a Badger King song.
Tell us if this is right.
Oh, it's a little electronic. Yeah.
This is it.
Oh, this goes hard.
This is cool.
Dick Cheney walks into the office.
What the are you listening to, George?
Shout out to Mariana Richie.
Bjork, a little bit Bjork vibe.
Oh, sure. Never thought of that.
Yeah, I think this is like it's like complex songs about mythology and I like it.
Make sure they're like listening to it in the residence.
Laura's like, I can't make heads or tails of this.
You know, I like I just like to listen to Bob Marley.
And then she looks over at George and he's got like a single tear going down his face.
And he's just like, it's very moving to me.
I should follow up with Richie and find out if there was any confirmation of that CD cellophane was removed or not.
No, actually, George still blasted on his boombox out in the garage when he paints now.
Huge Patrick King head.
I mean, that is a classic thing from that era and from that the boomer generation.
I can think of like a few times where like a friend's parent or something had a story.
It's very much that generation where it's like some story about like, oh, yeah, my dad had my friend's demo in the CD player in his car for seven years.
And you're like, really? And they're like, yeah, he knows it inside and out.
You know what I mean? That's like a story from that era.
Just like, oh, yeah, no, my mom.
My mom's listened to that a thousand times in like the deep streaming Internet era.
Like it would never happen. But just that vibe.
Right. Like I left Alien Lanes in the car and my uncle knows every song on it.
Like, oh, did he get like kind of more interested in GBV?
No, never. He's listened to that album a thousand times, never expressed any interest in like buying another one or checking it out.
Didn't want to see them in concert. Never wanted to discuss them, but just love that record.
Over and over again.
Actually, I'm not even sure if he loved that record. He just heard it a lot.
He just listened to it over and over again.
All right. Shout out to Badger King.
All right. Should we get in the top five?
It's time for the top five.
Let's talk about this briefly before we transition in the top five.
So Seinfeld, you hit the thread telling us you bought that Coca-Cola coffee.
Which I assumed you were drinking because at the time you texted us at like 8 p.m.
And I was like, are you about to hit that? And you said, I'll drink coffee at night.
I don't give a f**k. I'm a bad boy.
Yeah, that's verbatim what I said.
That blew my mind, by the way.
What? That I would drink coffee late? I don't know what's wrong.
I have a very high tolerance for caffeine.
But you sleep well. You're a deep sleeper.
I'm like average sleeper. I wouldn't say excessively deep.
But yeah, caffeine. I feel like I could drink like a Red Bull right now at 7.40 p.m.
And I could be in bed by 9.30. No problem.
Wow. Damn, dude. That's so like high school, dude.
Just like slam a bunch of Mountain Dew and then crash out.
Yeah. So I bought it. So I was at the grocery store and I saw it.
And I was just mentioning during a break that I just actually have opened the fridge a few times.
And just the idea of like in reality, like the combination of like a coffee taste and like Coca-Cola.
There's been no point since then that I could actually bring myself to try it.
It seems so gross to me. So now it's just going to sit there in the fridge.
I think you do it tomorrow at lunch.
Yeah, it seems like a lunch item. It's funny, though.
It's like I feel like when the Coca-Cola coffee first came out,
I think you sent us a review where somebody, some kind of like junk beverage reviewer was like,
guys, I know it sounds weird, but this is a game changer.
The Coca-Cola coffee is excellent.
And then I was kind of like, oh, damn, we're about to hear a lot more about this.
And then I haven't heard anything.
Or maybe it's just quietly becoming America's favorite coffee beverage. I don't know.
You guys want to give me 10 seconds? I'll run across the way. I'll grab it.
I'll take one sip and I'll give you a quick. Yeah, yeah. Go for it.
Five seconds. Yeah, let's do it.
Give me one. I'll be right back.
Nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Seinfeld 2000 Sweet Chili Heat world premiere of Coca-Cola coffee.
All right. He's back in his seat.
How long was that? Wait, how long was that?
We gave you a little buffer, but yeah, OK. Maybe like 14.
All right. He's got his hand. Did you hear that? He cracked it.
Is that 12 ounces or what? It's 12.
It's 12 ounces, 355 milliliters.
So what is that? Is that bigger than a than a Red Bull?
Yeah, well, Red Bull comes in a few sizes.
I feel like there's a comparable size.
I feel like a Red Bull is like a is like an eight ounce or a nine ounce.
And you don't have any fear of drinking it at this time of night.
I was just I'm going to take a little bit, but I was saying that you committed to the full 12 ounces.
I'm not downing the full 12 ounces, man committed.
All right. So I'll take a quick sip.
Oh, it's what you would imagine.
It just tastes like coffee with coffee.
You can make this at home and it would taste the exact same.
You take Coca-Cola. Better on ice.
No, because you're drinking it pretty cold right now.
It's pretty cold. Yeah.
This is like it's been on the fridge for a lot.
What's the calorie count on that can?
Oh, the second sip was worse.
Oh, no. You ever drink hard liquor in the second shot is like it gets even if it's like that.
70 calories. Oh, 70. That's not too bad.
That's not so bad. So it's just as fizzy as regular Coke.
It's just as fizzy. I mean, it's like a black coffee.
Of course, I have the dark blend, which I guess implies that there are other blends.
Oh, maybe there's like a milky one.
There must be like a French vanilla or something.
I feel like you're getting hype off of this.
I don't like it.
You better call your boss and ask if you can work on the night shift for the next few weeks.
I'm telling you, this is going to have no effect.
It's funny. You assumed that I have to look this up, but that the change would be in the coffee side of it and not the cherry Coke side or a vanilla Coke side that there.
You know what I mean?
Is this like a Coke? Coke is the baseline.
Is this a coffee flavored Coke?
Yeah. I mean, literally exactly what you picture.
Picture putting a black coffee.
Maybe the balance would be like the ratio would be like 70% Coca-Cola, 30% like black coffee.
That's exactly what it tastes like.
I can't recommend it.
This is getting two Seinfeld points out of five.
There are three kinds.
There's dark blend, which you're drinking vanilla and caramel.
Oh, maybe the caramel might be a little.
Maybe you need that little like more of a sweeter like coffee to offset it.
But what's better?
This or the yingling?
The Hershey's yingling?
You know, I was all in on the yingling.
So this is worse.
Let's give them the top five.
It's time for the top five on iTunes.
This week, we're doing the top five hits of 1981.
Why 1981?
That was the year that Bob Marley sadly died at age 36.
Damn, 36?
What would he have been doing throughout the 80s, 90s?
That would have been fascinating.
You can picture like a cool drum machine synthy Bob.
The truth is it's like, you know, reggae music lend itself to a lot of different eras and sounds.
So it's like he could have been holding it down.
You can picture him doing his kind of like 80s, late 80s, early 90s drum machine and synth album.
Like actually, it's a drum machine on the studio version of No Woman, No Christ.
So it's not like he was uninterested in technology or a purist.
One of a video I love to watch and it's a big hit in our household is the Stir It Up live on the old gray whistle test.
Oh, yeah. Classic.
Just such a classic Marley video.
Peter Tosh looking cool as hell, original whalers.
And, you know, just a beautiful reggae song, but you get a close up of the guy playing the Moog.
[imitates Moog]
Just like...
[imitates Moog]
Everybody's clothes are cool as hell.
Yeah, I haven't seen that video in a long time, but I just remember seeing it and being so struck with like how like quiet they were playing.
It was like very strong.
Right.
It wasn't like precious, but they were like...
Yeah, yeah.
It was like a very full sound, but like no...
Yeah.
And the bass is...
[imitates bass]
Yeah.
[imitates bass]
And then that Moog...
[imitates Moog]
So anyway, I think Bob Marley would have thrived in any era.
You could, I could totally picture a 90s Rick Rubin produced album where Rick would say to him,
"You know, Bob, you've done so much in reggae music. You're an innovator.
Let's not forget that one of your most beloved songs is Redemption Song, your acoustic pre-Nebraska type song.
Let's do a whole record of kind of like eerie, beautiful, real simple acoustic."
You know, actually drawing that connection, which I never had before between Redemption Song and then two years later, Bruce Springsteen, Nebraska,
I would have loved to hear Bob Marley's Nebraska album.
Oh my God, it's called Delaware. Duh. Just realized.
A mid-90s Rick Rubin produced Bob Marley album called Delaware.
That's him reflecting on like his years in Delaware and all like the weird sh*t he saw.
The memories of being kind of like lonely after working a week on the night shift, not going to Woodstock,
f*cking racist KKK dudes in the break room.
That would have been cool. Bob Marley, Delaware, Rick Rubin, 1994, mostly acoustic.
Some cool covers.
I'm also picturing the MTV Unplugged performance.
Oh yeah.
He busts out some weird covers.
Yeah. Like, "Whoa, Bob Marley did a meat puppet song."
Bob Marley did Heart-Shaped Box by Nirvana? Cool.
It's all music, man.
I could totally picture this too. Just like, "Whoa, Bob Marley did The Sign by Ace of Base."
And everybody's just being like, "It's so weird. That's like a fake Swedish reggae song."
And Bob Marley's like, "Music is music, man."
Just like a really rootsy, "I saw the sign."
Oh my god, I can totally picture it.
"It opened up my eyes."
Yeah, he's got the i3s, the backup singers, just like beautiful harmonies.
Actually, the truth is, sometimes just picturing somebody, it really is sad actually.
It's sad to picture anybody's life who died young, but really with Bob Marley, it is sad because he would have crushed it.
He would have crushed it for the rest of his life.
Also, I think too, Bob Marley could have rivaled the dead in terms of touring.
Bob Marley could have been doing--
Oh wow, true.
Picture 1995, Bob Marley could be hitting RFK Stadium, giant shows in Colorado.
I mean, couldn't you even see just a Bob Marley and Grateful Dead tour?
Totally. And actually, I was just thinking as we get into 1981 and the top five hits,
I guarantee I've told this story before on this show, but you know,
I think on a radio show, it's not like a podcast.
On a radio show, you're allowed to just refresh people's memory.
Just the same way you got to be like, "News on the tens, weather on the fives,"
and just be like, "You're listening to Apple Radio."
Ezra Koenig's Time Crisis.
Music so hot, it'll melt your face off.
So I know I've said this before, and maybe you remember this, Jake.
You might know this. I'm sure you could have heard this yourself too.
The dead were playing a show the day after Bob Marley died.
Maybe Seinfeld could get a number crunch on where that show was.
And famously, they busted out a "He's Gone."
And I don't know if they specifically said this is for Bob Marley,
or if just the crowd knew it.
Because you've got to imagine a Grateful Dead crowd,
and 99.9% of those people would have loved Bob Marley.
That's so heavy, that this amazing musician died so young.
And then for them just to bust out "He's Gone,"
even though that song is about Mickey Hearts.
Open the show.
What?
I think we're talking about Foxborough, Massachusetts, July 2nd, 1989.
No, we're talking '81.
'81.
Bob died in '81, I think in the summer of '81.
Yeah, this is actually some real number crunching.
You've got to find the closest Grateful Dead show to the day Bob Marley died.
Okay, I think we're talking about May 6th, 1981, live in Nassau Coliseum.
Sounds right.
So what day did Bob Marley die?
Bob Marley died, you know, May 11th, '81.
Okay, so it's got to be after that.
May 12th or 13th.
Oh, wait, wait, wait, no, no, there's another source that says May 12th, you're right.
But then there's another, there's one that says May 6th.
That's just wrong.
Okay, hold on.
I'm just looking up all Grateful Dead shows in May of '81.
Oh, wait, Veterans Memorial Coliseum.
Oh, whoa, they did two shows in Connecticut on the 11th and the 12th.
Whoa, where?
Veterans Memorial Coliseum, New Haven.
Does that ring a bell?
No, but I'm--
Okay, so Bob Marley died on the 11th.
Probably the news broke globally on the 12th.
Then the dead have a show, 5/12/81.
They open with Alabama Getaway.
But then in set two, after Estimated Profit and Before Drums,
they drop a He's Gone.
Wait a second, this is a lot less significant.
I thought you were saying they opened the show with He's Gone,
and it was implicitly understood that it was for Bob,
but they played He's Gone hundreds of times.
That's true.
It was like a mid-second set.
It would still be implicit.
Well, also, but let's also remember that there's more pride of place
in set two for the dead.
You know what I mean?
I actually don't know what you mean.
I feel like if we're going to acknowledge someone's passing,
you open the show with it.
But I feel like there's a more gravitas in the set two usually.
Interesting.
Set one has a lot of Mexicali blues, Me and My Uncle,
kind of like El Paso.
You know what I mean?
Of course, there can be great stuff in a set one.
Probably a deep deadhead might be listening and just shaking their damn head.
But I think, because set two, that's where the drums and spaces,
that's when you enter the cosmic consciousness, the longer jams.
I'm sure we have at least a few pretty big deadheads listening.
Do you think that on 5/12/81, the dead showed Bob Marley more respect
by putting He's Gone deep into set two or less respect by not opening set one?
True deadheads, we want to hear what you got to say about that.
One like equals one respect.
I could also picture that a backstage conversation, just like,
"You know, Jerry, I think we should open with He's Gone.
Really remind people He's Gone.
Just like, nah man, pride of place, before drums, deep into set two."
Okay, you know what? As we're talking about this, we're going way too deep.
Grateful Dead, He's Gone, Bob Marley, 1981.
F*** damn it, Facebook link, can't even open it.
That's the worst.
I found on GratefulDeadOfTheDay.com, it says that,
"Coming out of estimated, the boy's head into He's Gone,
with Bobby making a quick, 'This one's for Marley,' dedication.
The version that ensues is deeply heartfelt and absolutely sick."
Shout out to whoever wrote this on Grateful Dead of the Day.
"The version that ensues is deeply heartfelt and absolutely sick.
It is hard to express the emotional resonance of the tune and circumstances,
so just listen to the band and the crowd.
It is a definite top shelf rendition."
There was a quick, "This one's for Marley."
I was starting to say before, it is, on the one hand,
He's Gone is a beautiful song, but it is about a charlatan,
absconding with the bread.
It's not about a beautiful, iconic artist dying,
but you know, f*** it, it's like, he's gone, man.
That probably, I can imagine, it did have emotional resonance.
"Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile."
"Live song, this week, 1981, Don McLean crying."
Okay, this is a Roy Orbison cover by the dude most famous for American Pie.
This is his second biggest hit, actually, behind American Pie.
"I was alright for a while.
I could smile for a while."
Very slow version.
Yeah.
"But when I saw you last night, you held my hand."
Weird this was a hit.
People were nostalgic.
Well, there was that '80s nostalgia for the '50s.
Yep.
But it feels a little early for that.
Ronald Reagan had been in office for two months.
It's morning in America.
True.
"That I'd been crying over you, crying over you."
That second chord, I think it's minor six or something,
that is just like so eerie David Lynch in this song.
"I've been crying over you."
It's so dramatic.
Not a great version.
Very hard to top Roy Orbison.
I mean, it's tough if you're like, yeah, if you're not,
if you don't have the set of pipes like Roy Orbison did,
like to try to like--
Right.
I don't know.
That's rough.
Never had a high opinion of Don McLean.
This doesn't raise it, folks.
I will say, though, you know, obviously it's a beautiful classic song.
Yeah, not the best rendition.
But that to me is such good songwriting.
Just like a great way to open a song.
"I was all right for a while, and then he saw you last night.
You held his hand so tight."
It's like just like real quick, you know, "I was doing okay.
Then I saw you with the dude, and now I've been crying over you."
The number four song, 1981.
REO Speedwagon.
I feel like we haven't had an REO Speedwagon talk on the program.
"Keep on loving you."
I love this song.
I love these REO Speedwagon like power ballads.
Kevin Cronin, lead singer, presented this song to the rest of the band.
They didn't like it at first.
And I'm like, "Dude, this song really means a lot to me."
And they said, "So, dude, that's not an REO Speedwagon song."
And I was like, "You know what?
I'm the main songwriter for REO Speedwagon.
If I write a song, it's an REO Speedwagon song.
It's the band's job to turn it into an REO Speedwagon song."
That's a great story.
I love that.
At the same time, the band Chicago was going through the same problems.
I was just going to say it reminds me of when Peter Cetera wrote, "If You Leave Me Now."
Yep.
Or when Brian Wilson started making pet sounds.
And Mike Love was like, "What is this sappy stuff?"
What is this s***?
It's funny if they had won out in that argument with Kevin Cronin.
This is really like the REO Speedwagon bread and butter.
Yeah.
They have three or four hits like this in this mode.
It's funny to think that someone would think this is not the REO Speedwagon sound.
Yeah.
What is '70s REO like?
Just like hard rock?
I think so.
They had a '70s hit that was pretty good that rocked a little harder.
It was like "Roll With The Changes" or something.
You've heard it.
But I bet if you listen to the full length of this record, it's a bunch of forgettable bar rock songs.
Yeah.
Just some Alabama getaways.
Yeah, for sure.
I'm rocking out to this right now.
I like his emotional arc from going, "But guys, he's hurt. This song means a lot to me."
"Wait, f*** you."
It's my band.
This is REO Speedwagon.
Yikes.
Number three.
Getting really into A Strange Time in rock and roll.
Sticks, "The Best of Times."
Very Elton.
Yeah.
Some Bill set of pipes on him.
Very powerful.
I was just thinking about, it's kind of sad to picture that this was, you know, Bob Marley was sick at this time.
He had cancer.
Yeah.
He was getting treatment in Germany.
And then in the documentary, just seeing, you know, footage of Bob, I think he's in Germany or Switzerland or something.
Just like in the snow, fighting for his life.
It's kind of harsh.
So I'm hearing this music in the context of the last couple months of Bob Marley's life.
Which gives it a kind of like depressing energy.
This type of music already has depressing energy.
In an interesting way, I'm not dissing the music.
There's like a sad, a very deep sadness to this era.
Yeah, because the production is so full on and like pro.
But like, especially in this song, like kind of an emptiness at the emotional core of it, at least for me.
That it is like, I was picturing him like in like a cab, like going like from the airport to the hospital or something.
And like, just this playing.
Who knows, maybe he found it really moving.
He's a consummate songwriter and he might have been like, you know what, Styx has some tunes.
Styx has some tunes.
The number two song.
Oh my God, I never really put this together.
Did we ever talk about this on the show?
So the number two song on the charts this week in 1981 was Woman by John Lennon.
Great song.
And the reason that this song had shot up the charts is because it was the first single issued after his murder.
Right. You know what, we did talk about the idea of like John Lennon being murdered in December '80 and then Reagan taking office in January '81.
As kind of like that's some real end of an era sh*t.
But yeah, I never really thought about the fact that then Bob Marley dies six months later.
That's heavy. Lennon and Bob Marley dying six months apart. Less.
That sucks.
Yeah.
I'm loving the palette of this '81 top five though.
Yeah. It's sad but.
In sort of our, the last few episodes sort of thinking of this as sort of telling some kind of biopic, you know.
Yeah.
This definitely all has this like patina of like the end of Marley's life.
He's sort of refused cancer treatment.
And this is, it's sort of, yeah, it's very like Boogie Nights turning of a century.
Yeah.
It's dark. It's too sweet.
I wonder if Bob Marley liked the Beatles.
I'm going to guess yes.
Yeah. I wonder if he, how much time he spent with their music and like, yeah, it must've been heavy for him.
Like, I don't know exactly when he got sick, but for where, yeah.
Cause he, people always say that he refused treatment at first, but then he went for treatment towards the end.
But like, that must've been very eerie for him, whether or not he was a fan just to be like at this young age facing this like serious health crisis.
And like, that's on his mind.
And then he hears about this like incredibly famous musician he had some type of cultural kinship with just getting murdered.
You know what I mean?
Especially like Bob, Bob Marley in like December '80.
Harsh.
Maybe Bob Marley was listening to double fantasy in '81.
And then a big left turn at number one.
Everything we've been listening to is kind of like so far was kind of like heritage people with their roots in like the early seventies and stuff.
And then we finally get to the number one song this week in '81.
Very cutting edge.
Rapture by Blondie.
And famously, this is the first number one song to feature rap.
It's Debbie Harry rapping.
So make of that what you will, but this is still technically the first number one rap song.
I mean, I love Blondie.
I'm a big Blondie fan.
Well, the video features cameos from Fab Five Freddy and John Michelle Basquiat.
Yeah, this is a very vibey weird video.
I remember seeing it as a kid and finding it very strange and cool.
Debbie Harry, an iconic person with New Jersey roots.
Yet another.
All sorts of people probably spent some time living in New Jersey.
I think even Kanye briefly lived in New Jersey.
At some point when he was like trying to make it.
Because New Jersey is a place that not only a lot of people from there, but people might try to move to New York, but they're trying to live a little more cheaply or they
have a connection in Jersey.
It's like a place you could live and commute in for a while.
I guess according to Chris Stein, the Wu-Tang guys told and Mobb Deep told the Blondie people that this was the first rap song they heard when they were kids.
That's cool.
That's wild.
I like this note that Matt put in.
Rapture was used in a 2015 Acura commercial.
Very TC.
Wonder what was happening in that Acura commercial.
Who's the biggest car guy on Time Crisis?
Seinfeld?
What? No.
I'm not a car guy.
Well, I feel like you're because you're a shoe guy.
Cars are not a million miles away.
You know, I only got my driver's license like two years ago for the first time ever.
I feel like Jake is the car guy here.
No, Jake's been driving the OG minivan no f*** given, dude.
Very utilitarian.
I mean, I love minivans, but I don't think that makes me a car guy.
But you love a type of vehicle.
I have a preference.
Alright, I guess Nick's the car guy.
What's the deal with Acuras?
Is that a luxury automobile?
Where does the Acura fall in the...
I'm the least car guy of the car guys on this car talk.
I do believe from...
Is it like a Lexus?
Like a social standing.
Yeah.
Yes.
And Acura's like a Lexus?
Yeah, I would say that...
Who makes Lexus?
The Acura seems to me the more basic Lexus.
Toyota makes Lexus, Jake.
Toyota makes the Lexus?
Yeah, Lexus is the Toyota's luxury automobile.
Alright, on Google when you type in "Is Acura A?"
The first thing that comes up is "Is Acura a luxury car?"
I also love the idea that it's like...
That that's a set concept.
People believe, I guess I'm one of them, that be like...
"Oh, is an Acura a luxury car?"
"Yes."
"Okay."
"I wasn't sure if it was."
"Oh no, it is."
And like other cars are not.
Matt just texted me saying, and I can't tell if he's just being sort of catty.
He just wrote, "It's a high-end Honda."
Well...
But I believe it's a luxury brand.
It's a high-end.
No, it is, right?
Wait, this is hilarious.
I'm on the website of an Acura dealership.
Acura of Escondido.
Escondido, California.
That's down by San Diego, right?
So there's literally on this dealership's website, Acura of Escondido,
there's a page that answers, I guess, a frequently asked question.
"Is Acura a luxury car?"
They know that their customers are wondering this.
I need to know.
I want luxury.
I need it.
Many local drivers are wondering, local drivers,
"Is Acura considered luxury?"
If you're also thinking to yourself, "Is Acura a luxury brand?"
Seems like a bot wrote it.
While there are many opinions about what can be considered luxury,
Acura is known as a luxury brand,
thanks to its high-end vehicles and top-quality features.
Along with its exterior appeal, Acura vehicles feel fantastic to drive
on San Diego.
Okay, this was written by a robot.
This is crazy.
Acura vehicles feel fantastic to drive on San Diego.
Visit Acura of Escondido or contact us to get behind the wheel of a new Acura
and experience the distinction today.
Now that you know Acura is considered lux,
you're likely wondering just what it is about Acura that qualifies it
as a luxury brand.
Then they say, "Because it's got super handling all-wheel drive,
spacious seating, advanced technology interfaces."
This is very bizarre.
But anyway, if we have any Acura drivers listening or anybody wonders,
next time somebody says, "Is Acura a luxury brand?"
You tell them, "You bet your ass it is."
And by the way, they feel fantastic to drive on San Diego.
As we were reading that ad copy, it was like an alternate reality for TC
where if we were a podcast and we had ads.
Well, it's funny that you said that.
As we were just doing the live ad read.
I was thinking how this conversation sounded so much better over that music,
just blasting and how just radio advertising that seemed.
Yeah.
Almost like Rush Limbaugh.
Welcome back to Time Crisis.
Brought to you by Acura of Escondido.
And by the way--oh, and we do that kind of--
Throw that blondie again.
Yeah, throw that blondie again.
Do it on.
We do that kind of fake personal thing where you try to do your own version.
Welcome back to the program Time Crisis with Jake and Ezra.
This one's brought to you by Acura of Escondido down there in San Diego.
And by the way, I just wanted to say that a lot of people in my life ask me,
"Is Acura considered a luxury vehicle?"
And I got to say, it's obvious.
Yes, Acura is a luxury brand.
And when people ask me why, I say, "Well, it's got top quality features
and along with the exterior appeal, they feel absolutely fantastic to drive on San Diego."
And if you know me, when I'm not doing the show,
you'll probably see me driving an Acura on San Diego.
And I'll tell you what, it feels fantastic.
Anyway, we're turning over to Seinfeld who's got traffic in the weather.
Alternate reality of TC. There it is.
One day. One day we'll take it there.
Just TC in the morning.
Drive time.
Rush Limbaugh uses My City.
TC, TC.
My City was gone by the pretenders.
Right. Yeah, he used that for years.
He's gone.
Rush is gone, dude.
All right.
Going out on a little--
We're going out on--
Going out on a Rush Limbaugh.
We don't need to go deep on Limbaugh.
Rest in power, King.
Seinfeld, no.
All right, Seinfeld, maybe being Canadian,
you don't fully understand how people feel about him.
Anyway, in tribute to all the people who have passed from the face of the earth
and all the people who will, which is all of us listening,
we're going to leave with "He's Gone" by The Grateful Dead.
I'm thinking maybe the 51281, live in Connecticut.
Let's throw it on. Peace.
This one's from Marley.
Ran in a dream ditch
Caught on a limb
You know better than I know him
Like I told you
What I said
Steal your face right off your hip
Now he's gone
Now he's gone
Gone, he's gone
He's gone
Like a steam locomotive
Rolling down the track
He's gone
Gone, and nothing's gonna bring him back
He's gone
Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
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