Episode 177: Half Baked Potato
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Transcript
Transcript
Time Crisis, back again.
On today's TC, we'll talk about Larry Norman, Jesus Christ, and Hubba Stank, among many others.
This is a very special TC.
So grab a beverage, kick up your feet, and relax.
Time Crisis, with Ezra Koenig.
They passed me by, all of those great romances
The war I fell to obey me, all my rightful chances
My picture clear, everything seemed so easy
And so I dealt to the floor, when a bus had to go
Now it's different, I want you to know
One of us is crying, one of us is lying
Even only they
Time Crisis, back again.
We've been banking the Eps.
Just a little bit, not severely banked.
Light banking.
Light banking, just a little bit ahead of schedule.
Just trying to get on more of a summer schedule.
How you doing, Jake?
Doing great.
We're all here together in person in the studio.
Got Seinfeld.
Hey, what's up?
Got Nick.
Hello.
Good to be back.
Gotta say, in person feels great.
Totally different energy.
Been missing it.
Yep.
It flows different.
Yeah, we got them in the future, we gotta mix it up.
We gotta get a little bit of both.
Yep.
But with our busy schedules, it's not always easy.
Getting cross town to Culver at rush hour.
[laughs]
Hardcore.
Gotta structure your day around that.
[laughs]
Hardcore.
We gotta maybe just build a TC clubhouse.
TC East. Eastside.
Maybe we can link up with Yardhouse and see if they can give us a designated booth.
Kind of a win-win.
[laughs]
Soundproofed booth.
[laughs]
It's just really loud.
I mean, we've recorded Time Crisis in restaurants before.
That's true.
We did the Tom's Diner, also known as the Seinfeld Diner.
We did a diner in Iowa City. Or not Iowa City, maybe Ames, Iowa.
Oh yeah.
That's crazy.
Yeah, we used to just be doing on the ground reporting.
In some ways, that's the least TC [beep] we ever did, was being on the ground at the presidential primaries.
What were we doing?
[laughs]
I can't remember.
That was too ambitious.
That was too ambitious for us.
Yeah, we really hit our stride when we stopped trying so hard.
Seinfeld, you said we got an interesting email recently about baked potatoes.
I'm sorry to say we kind of dropped the hot potato in the last ep.
I think there were very few baked potato references.
But this is the Time Crisis year of the baked potato.
So let's keep it going.
Let's go to the Time Crisis mailbag.
Yeah, this is incredible.
This is an email from Brittany S. in St. Petersburg, Florida.
She writes, "Long time listener. First time emailer.
I love the show TC Head for Life. Nice.
Had to write in to tell y'all about the '90s themed baked potato restaurant in my town.
It's a restaurant called Half Baked."
[laughs]
It's the Half Baked Potato. Hang on.
Oh.
It's the Half Baked Potato in St. Petersburg.
The menu is very interesting. They have a lot of--
I just got to say, interesting play on words, because when it's just called Half Baked,
it makes you think of the famous stoner comedy with Dave Chappelle and Jim Brewer.
But when you hear the whole phrase, "the half baked potato,"
suddenly I stop thinking-- I don't think about the movie Half Baked.
I'm just picturing kind of like a hard, not fully cooked potato.
It does sound like an undercooked baked potato a little bit.
They are apparently 420 friendly on their site.
Okay. What does that mean for a restaurant in Florida?
They don't freak you out if you're high?
420 vibes.
It's like a stoner-- it's a psychedelic take on the baked potato.
Okay. All right. That's that. I guess they can't help-- you can't--
weed's not legal in Florida, is it?
No.
It will be soon, I'm sure.
All right. They can't help it. They're in Florida.
They're only so 420 friendly.
Yeah. There can't be no laws here.
The Half Baked Potato has successfully lobbied Governor Ron DeSantis to grant them--
[laughs]
a type of sovereignty akin to a Native American reservation
or maybe the Vatican City in Italy,
which allows them to be truly 420 friendly.
But as soon as you step outside of the Half Baked Potato's doors,
you will be immediately arrested by the authorities.
They do have their own police force.
It's like Vatican City.
Their bio is delicious loaded potatoes with a mix of '80s and '90s throwback,
New Orleans flavor, and 420 vibes.
Wait, I don't get the '80s and '90s.
The baked potato is timeless.
Well, we did talk about how this all started with us saying
that the baked potato feels a little bit like a relic.
It was in the 20th century.
Okay. So what are the '90s toppings that you could get on a baked potato?
Okay. So--
Only '90s kids will remember these baked potato toppings.
Oh, wow. I mean, let me tell you.
So they've got about on their menu--
I mean, I want to say 27 or so different signature potatoes.
That's too many.
You know there's that show Bar Rescue
where the guy goes to bars and helps them kind of tighten things up?
We should do a baked potato rescue show.
We go to baked potato restaurants, kind of open the books,
look at the menu, and maybe kind of help them get things a little more ship shape.
I mean, these titles, these names of these dishes are very clever.
They've got Be My Super Hero.
There's a hero meat, Suzuki.
There's It's Brisket B***, which is like--
[laughter]
Which is like It's Brittany B***.
Okay.
All right. This place rules. They actually don't need our help.
Pasta La Vista Baby, that's their pasta baked potato.
Pasta baked potato?
So there's pasta in the baked potato?
So it's topped with spaghetti bolognese, smoked sausage mozzarella,
and they've described it as comfort food is its finest.
That one's for Jake. Jake loves a sausage topping on pizza.
That's true.
I mean, the truth is the spaghetti potato combo is interesting.
But there's no actual spaghetti. It's just the bolognese sauce?
It says spaghetti bolognese, so I think there's spaghetti in it.
It's called Pasta La Vista.
Because, okay, that's strange.
Because you're thinking a baked potato with a bolognese sauce would be nice.
It'd be great. Absolutely.
I'd be down.
You know what I like? The last item on the first page of this menu is called The F*** It.
The description is--
The F*** It?
Yeah, the F*** It. And it's not really a meal.
It says, "Not sure what you want? Let us choose for you.
We'll ask you some questions at the register," with a smiling emoji.
Oh, they're vibing.
They interrogate you a little bit, and they help you find--
they help you locate the potato that's--
Okay, I like that, because that is pretty old school,
but I feel like the modern--
especially with apps and stuff,
and there's this increasingly antisocial behavior
and generations raised on the internet,
or at the very least an extreme type of shyness,
and you picture at so many restaurants,
and even Starbucks and stuff, people order online,
just run in, just grab it, like zero interaction.
And then even a lot of places where they look at the menu,
and you just order it.
The idea of actually coming in
and having a heart-to-heart with the person behind the counter
saying, "Listen, I'm a little bit confused today.
I want the f*** it."
"Oh, okay, you want the f*** it.
All right, well, let me ask you a few questions."
"What kind of mood you in?"
[laughter]
"Well, I've had a real crappy day."
"Okay, so you're probably going to want something
a little bit sweet.
You're going to want some comfort food,
maybe over a kind of diet baked potato?"
"Yeah, I just need something to improve my mood.
I'm not calorie counting today."
"I want to indulge."
[laughter]
"I like the idea that you've gone to a hyper-specific..."
"It's free therapy."
"Yeah, exactly."
"It starts getting a little deeper."
"Hey, a life hack for people in Florida.
Don't waste your money on therapy.
Go down to the half-baked potato and get the f*** it.
It's actually twice as effective."
Early in the morning,
rising to the street.
Light me up that cigarette,
and I'll strap shoes on my feet.
Try to find the reason,
the reason things went wrong.
Got to find the reason why my money's on the bone.
I got a Dalmatian that I could stick in her.
I can play the guitar like a motherf***ing riot.
The letter continues.
"They have a lot of different baked potato creations.
They also serve ramen randomly."
That's true.
There's a little ramen section.
"Wait, in the baked potato,
or that's just a different part of the menu?"
You can just get ramen.
"Yeah, so they also,
they have a handful of other items.
There's a ramen, pierogies, and hot dogs are also,
but it's like sort of a sub.
It's like, that's not the main event, obviously."
Ramen, pierogies, hot dogs.
They got a salad bar there?
"I'm not seeing any salad bar.
Oh, they got a sushi roll."
Sushi?
"They've got a..."
Okay, this is just...
"Oh, they've got the Elvis,
which is peanut butter, bacon bits, and marshmallows."
Wait, wait, are we back to baked potatoes now?
"No, no, no, we're down in the hot dog section."
Oh, God.
"There's a lot happening here."
Wait, what town is this in?
"It's in St. Petersburg, and it's 420 friendly."
Okay, I feel like that answers
a lot of the reasoning behind this.
"Like, you walk in..."
Stoned as hell.
"F*** it."
Blasted.
"You're stoned out of your gourd.
You walk in, and you go, 'F*** it,'
and they tell you what to eat.
She writes, "Please check out the quote,
'Pulled Pork Parfait,'
a take on the '90s snack, Dirt Cups,
that has flaming hot Cheetos."
What are these '90s...
Oh, wait, Dirt Cups...
Oh, sorry, go on, go on.
"Well, I don't...
That's a good...
What is a Dirt Cup?"
I mean, when I say Dirt Cups,
I have vague memories of being in, like,
grade school,
and there's a thing that it was, like,
a fake cup of dirt with, like,
gummy worms in it,
and the dirt was made out of, like,
crumbly chocolate.
"Is that a '90s thing? I don't..."
I mean, that does have '90s kid energy.
"Guys, I gotta show you a photo
of the pasta la vista."
[laughing]
Oh, what?
"So it's...
I mean, it's a ton of angel hair pasta
with a bolognese,
and it looks like they've just thrown,
like, sort of shaved mozzarella,
like, from a bag."
I mean, I can barely see the potato under there.
It looks like a plate of pasta from over here.
I mean, here's what's tough
about these kind of restaurants is
that could be great,
but you have to make every element perfect.
I'm gonna assume they know how to do
a really nice baked potato,
'cause that's their base here.
But if you're gonna...
So you're just gonna have one ran--
a few random stoners,
just a few Florida deadheads
working behind the counter.
Well, you're gonna need one person
who knows how to cook
perfectly al dente angel hair pasta.
You're gonna need somebody else
who knows how to do Korean barbecue.
You're gonna need a whole Iron Chef team
to really make this place work.
They're just boiling some pasta
and dumping some ragu on there.
All right, that doesn't sound good.
You're gonna need somebody who really--
they have to have high-quality mozzarella
who really knows how to--
They need a sushi chef.
Yes.
Yeah.
They need Jiro.
They got Jiro back there.
No, I like the Euros and sushi under the same roof.
[laughter]
But I always think about these places
where they have--
I mean, it's a little bit like a diner
where there's, like, an endless menu.
Yeah.
And you know that 80% to 90%
of what they're cooking day in, day out
is maybe, like, 10 items.
So you know that, you know,
when you roll in one of these days
and you're asking, you know,
for the Mongolian barbecue baked potato,
there's definitely somebody there
who's like, "Oh, right.
Yeah, [bleep] I haven't made this in three weeks.
How do we do this one?"
You know what I mean?
It's not gonna be dialed in.
It's very hard to nail all those things.
That Dirt Cup pulled pork parfait,
it has flaming hot Cheetos and gummy worms on top.
With pulled pork?
Yeah, I have to assume that's the base.
Oh, why?
That's the dirt.
Over the line.
I mean, it's 420 friendly.
They play '90s music and have
"Hey Arnold" and other '90s shows
playing on TV in the restaurant
with real, quote, "wacky '90s decor."
Think "Saved by the Bell" aesthetic.
Would love to hear Ezra and Jake's thoughts on this
or even have them call the owner up.
He seems like an interesting guy.
Okay, maybe next time.
I mean, I'm definitely interested in this place.
I mean, this is what it...
I'm looking at all these photos of the dishes.
It's basically the baked potato is...
It's basically the plate.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like they're putting a whole meal
on top of the baked potato.
Is the portion so large?
No, the portion's like...
Look, this one of Swedish meatballs
has two, four, six, eight, nine Swedish meatballs
on the baked potato.
And I just have to show you,
this is the Elvis hot dog.
Whoa!
Oh my God.
Heads up.
I mean, so what it does look like is that...
It's a hot dog with marshmallows.
It looks like they threw a bunch of mini marshmallows
that you'd sort of put in like a hot cocoa.
But it does look like they've taken a blowtorch
to the top of it,
the way you might in maybe a fancy restaurant or something,
where it's just like they've sort of toasted.
Yeah, you kind of torch it.
Caramelize it.
They caramelize it.
I mean, there's peanut butter on that hot dog?
Oh, yeah.
That could almost be good.
This, it's this substance.
It's sort of this viscous substance.
This viscous.
Oh dear.
Ooh.
♪ I fly a lot of paper, get a high life, ♪
♪ planes if you catch me at the border, ♪
♪ I got visas in my name. ♪
♪ If you come over here, I'll make 'em all day. ♪
♪ I get one down in a second if you wait. ♪
♪ I fly a lot of paper, get a high life, ♪
♪ planes if you catch me at the border, ♪
♪ I got visas in my name. ♪
♪ If you come over here, I'll make 'em all day. ♪
♪ I get one down in a second if you wait. ♪
♪ Sometimes I think sitting on trains. ♪
♪ Every step I get, I'm cooking that game. ♪
♪ Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame. ♪
♪ Burn a fight hustler, making my name. ♪
♪ Sometimes I think sitting on trains. ♪
♪ Every step I get, I'm cooking that game. ♪
♪ Everyone's a winner, we're making our fame. ♪
♪ Burn a fight hustler, making my name. ♪
Okay, now I understand why you keep telling us it's 420 friendly.
Is that these are like kind of monstrous stoner creations
that you probably need to be high to eat.
And there is something about when you're super blazed
that what you're looking for in food changes a bit.
You do want an interesting mix of textures and flavors.
And large quantities.
Okay, so now I understand where they're coming from a bit.
And I'm noticing that the menu has a subtle but large marijuana leaf
sort of like beneath everything.
So this is like they're really true to the concept.
My read is that the food is secondary to the concept.
The baked potato is secondary to the toppings.
You really got to dig, dig deep to get to the potato
at the core of this whole concept.
So most people who dine there are just leaving
a kind of dirty baked potato on their plate.
Well, that's why it's half baked because no one actually eats the potato.
That's right.
Because they don't actually have to cook it.
Well, I would love to talk to the owner.
I appreciate the creativity.
I'm just curious how it's doing.
What's the price point on this stuff?
Oh, great question.
What's that pasta la vista going to run you?
All right, that pasta la vista is $14.
Solid.
It looks like pasta la vista is enough food for a two-person family.
How are they doing?
I don't know.
When do they open?
Let's see.
Are there some Yelp reviews?
Let's find out.
I also just feel like it does have the feeling of being
one or two many things going on on the mood board.
For instance, if you were like, "This is like an 80s and 90s themed restaurant.
They play cartoons from the 80s and 90s, and you can get junky breakfast cereal."
Because sometimes you see these places that look kind of nasty.
It's like, "The cereal bar," and it's a kind of touristy, goofy place
you can go eat Captain Crunch or something.
If you went there and they were--
You could understand how that'd be some kind of nostalgia throwback, goofy thing
for aging millennials to go eat some junky cereal and watch cartoons.
If you said, "420 friendly," sure.
Roll up late night, eat Froot Loops, and watch--
But this restaurant is like, "You got to be blazed.
You got to be absolutely wrecked."
It does feel like there's a dark--
There's almost a dark energy walking into this place,
and it's just full of zombies.
We open at 10 p.m.
So high they can't talk to each other, and they're all just digging in.
They're all like, "Do these--"
This place is like--
I kind of love it that it goes beyond the rational mind
because we can understand the nostalgia of the 420,
but then they throw in this baked potato element, kind of for no reason.
Baked potatoes.
Jake, to your question, half-baked potato has five stars on Yelp.
Hell yeah.
12 reviews.
That's good.
It's doing solid.
Do you want to read one or two?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think there's a good representation here.
Krista V wrote in April, "As someone who loves potatoes,
I was excited to also see that they offer ramen and hot dogs,
two of my other favorites."
It was my first time trying, and I ordered online for pickup.
When I walked in to get my order, I was greeted like a friend,
and I so appreciate that.
The staff was so friendly and warm and even told me about some things
they have in the works.
Okay.
"So to get to my order, I tried the pork ramen with an added egg."
So this person, they love potatoes, but they've gone ramen first
on their first try.
"It was super delicious.
I've never had ramen with pulled pork, but it was really nice
and added a unique flavor.
The egg was cooked and seasoned perfectly.
The broth was amazing.
I loved it all.
I will definitely be coming back."
Maybe that answers my question.
This is a home run.
Because if every item is not--and every element is not done perfectly,
this is going to be a disaster.
But if they actually have somebody who knows how to get the egg
just right for ramen and knows how to cook the pork just right,
it really comes down to the people.
And it sounds like it's a friendly group of people.
Because here's the thing.
You can't be walking into a place like the Half-Baked Potato
and get some kind of sullen stoner.
That'd be terrible.
You'd walk in and some guy's like, "Yeah?"
And you're just like, "Um, can I get the Elvis hot dog?"
"What?"
"Oh, wait, which one is--okay, hold on."
That's going to kill the vibe.
You need to walk in with friendly, motivated stoners
who maybe have worked in some pretty high-class restaurants.
And it sounds like maybe that's what's going on here.
♪ It's hidden far away ♪
♪ Though someday I may tell ♪
♪ The tale of mental tangle ♪
♪ When into your world I fell ♪
♪ Without you now I'd wander ♪
♪ Soaking, secretly afraid ♪
♪ But in your grasp the fears don't last ♪
♪ Though some of them have stayed ♪
♪ ♪
♪ I wheeled around because I ♪
♪ Didn't hear what you had said ♪
♪ I saw you dancing with a lady ♪
♪ Upon the horse's bed ♪
♪ And I was foggy, rather groggy ♪
♪ You held me to my car ♪
♪ The binding belt enclosing me ♪
♪ A sample in a jar ♪
I'm going to give a little bit of a bigger picture here on this thing.
I've noticed on Google Maps that the Half-Baked Potato
is a six-minute walk from the Imagine Museum
of Contemporary Glass Art.
- Nice. - So imagine, right?
You get 428 out of your head.
You visit the Contemporary Glass Art Museum.
Checking out that Dale Chihuly.
(laughing)
Precisely.
- And then just a hop, skip, and a jump. - Smoking on that Chihuly.
Right? And then you're over to the Half-Baked Potato.
I mean, that's a day.
That's a St. Petersburg day.
- As far as I'm concerned. - I love that this is in Florida.
- Yeah, St. Petersburg on-- - Hot-ass Florida.
On the beach?
Yeah.
Is it Gulfside?
Wait, I get confused.
I'm pretty sure--
That's got to be, right?
I'm pretty sure we've been to St. Peter's.
I mean, I've been to St. Augustine, too.
St. Pete is southern Florida.
Yeah, home of the Coast Guard.
Adjacent to Tampa Bay. Okay.
- Choose one-- - Coastal. So--
- I do have to say-- - That sounds kind as hell, man.
On the-- What do you think this means?
So on the menu,
if I sort of, you know, pushed in a bit,
it says, "Choose one of our signature potatoes
or BYO on the backside."
Does that mean you can-- You bring your own potato?
- BYO. - BYO.
Choose one of our signature potatoes
or, oh, build your own.
Oh, build your own.
Yeah, I was like, what's the backside?
On the backside?
I don't know. On the backside.
Like on the-- Like low-key?
It's like a hack.
- Did you-- - Is that like some computer programmer thing,
the backside?
A lot happening here.
Buffy the potato slayer.
- What's in Buffy? - Is shredded chicken,
buffalo sauce,
cheddar shreds, ranch drizzle,
green onions, and sour cream.
I mean, that's-- That sounds--
- That could be really good. - That could be okay.
It could be great.
- Let me get the-- - Ideas are a dime a dozen.
- It's all about execution. - Yeah.
I'm still tripping out on the sushi,
just like the guy being like,
"Let me get the pasta la vista and, oh, yeah,
a side of yellowtail sashimi."
[laughing]
Just saying.
Our sushi chef has trained in Tokyo
for the last 15 years
before coming to St. Pete
- to work at our sushi bar. - Yeah, not exactly.
Dreams of sushi.
[laughing]
Well, the half-baked potato,
I mean, the more we talk about it,
the more I like it.
But why--
It still seems so random that they chose
baked potato as their
kind of unifying principle.
Would a vampire play Tampa?
We actually have a great number of cards.
We played St. Petersburg back in the day.
Would we play Tampa?
I mean, in a heartbeat, I'd be open to the idea.
Is there, like, a venue that we would play?
Wait, we played--
Did we just play St. Petersburg?
First result on setlist.fm
is you played Janice Live
in 2010
- on a Contra tour. - Yeah, that sounds familiar.
With Beach House.
Seems like it's been a minute.
Well, maybe talk to your tour manager
about getting you routed through Tampa next time.
- Make sure there's time allotted. - And I'm a rider.
I'd love to hit Tampa.
- I just don't think we ever-- - Half-baked.
- I just don't think we ever-- - Oh, yeah, backstage.
Hit Tampa. So, okay, we have played St. Petersburg,
so maybe we'll go back.
Maybe. And, yeah, what do you think the vibe's gonna be
when people come to visit you backstage
and it's just full of half-baked potatoes?
I wonder if they have a mobile rig.
They got to.
We're just having a killer party.
Oh, you were in Tampa 2014
on the Modern Vampires of the City tour.
You played the Mid-Florida Credit Union Amphitheater.
- Oh, yeah, that sounds familiar. - That is a great name.
Mid-Florida Credit Union Amphitheater.
I've never heard that term, "mid-Florida."
We've definitely played a few credit union events.
- Respect. - Oh, yeah.
No, we had a great show in St. Augustine.
Yeah, sometimes I get St. Augustine, St. Petersburg confused.
In August 2019, we hit the St. Augustine Amphitheater
in St. Augustine, Florida,
but that's, like, the totally different side of Florida.
- That's, like, way north. - North and on the Atlantic coast.
All right, I'm gonna make sure we hit St. Pete's again
so that we can get everybody coming through.
( music playing )
♪ It was late at night ♪
♪ You hit on tight ♪
♪ From an empty seat ♪
♪ A flash of light ♪
♪ It will take a while ♪
♪ To make you smile ♪
♪ Somewhere in these aisles ♪
♪ I'm on your side ♪
♪ You wide-eyed girls ♪
♪ You get it right ♪
All right, Jakes, we've been talking about this for a long time.
You've actually done some research
on a figure a lot of people don't know about,
a man named Larry Norman.
That's right. I mean, I've been listening to his music for years.
Every now and then I'll ask, you know, you're talking music with people,
you're like, "You know Larry Norman?"
People are like, "I don't know who that is."
And I don't know how I stumbled across his music,
but one time I was just reading something
and I made some reference to Larry Norman,
who was, you know, widely credited as the father of Christian rock.
And he started releasing records in the late '60s and early '70s.
And you know me, I was just immediately like, "What's that?"
Yeah, what's...
Like, the origins of Christian rock in the late '60s.
Right.
I remember the description was sort of like,
FM, like, rock from that era,
like FM radio rock from that era.
Like it would fit right in with classic rock kind of palettes,
except for the subject matter and the lyrics.
Yeah, so I don't know.
I just have been always...
I made like a Larry Norman playlist.
And I just thought his story was really interesting.
I watched a doc that was on Amazon
that was made a few years ago that is low budge, but pretty good.
And I mean, basically, like,
he was a dude that grew up in the South Bay
and he first had a band called People,
which had like kind of like a...
Great name for a band.
Yeah, People with an exclamation point.
And like, they had like some popularity.
They like toured with The Who
and like opened for Hendrix and The Dead.
Played The Matrix a bunch.
Oh, in SF.
Yeah.
Freaky.
And Larry had like, he was, you know,
had been a Christian his whole life.
He wanted to name the first People record,
"We Need a Lot More Jesus and a Lot Less Rock and Roll."
And the other guys in the band were like,
"Um, I don't know about that, dude."
And then they were signed to Capitol
and Capitol was like, "Yeah, not a good album title."
And then the band kind of split up over religious differences
because the other guys in the band were all Scientologists.
Oh!
And so Larry like moves down to LA.
Larry, you're too far out with this Jesus stuff, man.
Yeah. Have you heard of Zinu?
Have you heard the good word?
So then Larry moves down to LA in like '68
and he still has a deal with Capitol.
And he records an album, his first album,
called "Upon This Rock," which is widely credited
as like the first straight up Christian rock record.
Came out on Capitol Records in '69, I think.
But he would spend like all day
just like walking up and down Hollywood Boulevard,
not with like a bullhorn or anything,
but just like trying to spread the good word.
Like that's how he spent his days.
And then he would like play gigs.
Wow.
He had like a very contentious relationship with the church
and with like organized religion.
His songs weren't just like, "God is great."
It was much more like deep into like scripture
and like the darker elements of the Bible
and like judgment day is coming.
Whoa.
And like, you have to get your soul in order
or you're gonna burn in hell.
Like that's what a lot of his songs are.
So a lot of like the Christian youth groups and stuff
that he would play for were just like,
"This is too heavy."
And plus he was bringing like,
the reason I like Larry Norman is that his music
is like good.
Like I will throw on Larry Norman
for non-anthropological reasons.
I got into him because I was like,
"What's the deal with early Christian rock?"
Right, but he's actually, he can really play.
He's a great writer.
But anyway, I found this thing online
that was like a memoir he wrote.
And I pulled a few quotes that were kind of interesting
about his mindset in the late 60s.
So just picture like "What's Upon a Time in Hollywood?"
And it's like Brad Pitt's at like a stoplight
on like Hollywood Boulevard.
And then in the background,
there's just like this long haired Jesus looking dude.
Right.
Who's just like talking to someone about the good Lord.
So Larry's vibe was like,
"Yet at the same time, I had very little interest
in cultivating endorsements from the church.
I was out to create a dialogue
with people who believe they hated God.
I wanted to be on the battlefield,
fighting a spiritual battle,
trying to convince and convert the undecided
and to get them to cross the battle line
to stand together with other new believers.
Though I may have been an error
in standing aside from the brethren
by not performing for them,
the established church was simply immaterial to me.
I had been witnessing since I was in primary school
and now in Los Angeles, up and down Hollywood Boulevard.
In 1968, I spent all of my concert income
on establishing and maintaining a Christian halfway house.
I had played at the Troubadour and the Hollywood Bowl,
witnessing before and after the performances
on the streets during the day
and to the people after the shows.
When I was working the boulevards,
I never mentioned that I played guitar,
wrote songs, had made records.
My encounters were one-on-one, quiet and personal.
I did not hand out Bible tracks
and try to preach on the sidewalk through a bullhorn.
I waited until I felt God was saying,
"Go talk to this person."
And so then after a while, he did,
like, I guess there were a lot of Christian coffee houses
in the early '70s, which was interesting to read about.
So he started playing some of those.
He goes, "When I'd finally played
"in Christian coffee houses, it was somewhat of a vacation,
"a nice change from bashing my head
"against the cultural, secular wall for a short time.
"I was getting weary of trying to be heard
"by the hate-ashberry crowd.
"I'd opened for Jimi Hendrix, the Doors,
"the Grateful Dead, Janis Joplin, the Byrds,
"and found no one backstage who was interested
"in anything beyond their own fame
"and whatever free drugs were available.
"The audiences out front seemed to be stoned
"even before they showed up at the Fillmore,
"the Matrix, or the Avalon Ballroom."
So just picture him backstage, opening for the dead,
and just running into Phil Lash and being like,
"Hey, brother."
(laughing)
- Phil is just like, "I'm just trying to score some hash, man."
And it's also interesting to think, too,
I think this is true in a lot of movements and moments.
Sometimes, even with a very fervent movement,
like the hippie movement, you're still gonna get
some really disappointed true believers.
'Cause imagine you're this long-haired dude
and you have this deep relationship to God, Christ, whatever.
In your own counter-cultural way,
you're saying he wasn't into the church.
In a really deep way, you see all these long-haired,
quote-unquote, Jesus-looking people come together
to open up a new age of peace, love, and understanding.
You're probably thinking, "Wow, I'm literally living
"through prophecy. This is amazing."
- Yeah.
- People are opening their mind to bigger ideas.
And then I can totally see that you're like,
"And this is where it's at. I'm at the center of it.
"This is amazing. Everything's coming together."
And then you actually go to the show
and you still see normal showbiz vibes.
You just see people kind of whacked out on drugs.
And you're just like, kind of--
You could see how a guy like that would be
just pretty disappointed.
- Yeah.
- Everything about that movement probably looked
like exactly what he was hoping for in life.
This perfect combination of Jesus-type ideals
plus cool music.
And then he gets in the middle of it
and he can't really find it.
Must have been very disappointing.
- Yeah. No, I mean, you know, like with this show,
whether we're talking about "Mad Men" or anything else,
that moment of the '60s idealism,
"Curtling," yeah, like Eagle songs, Don Henley songs.
- Right.
- And then this was another strand of that.
- Right.
- "I'm Not Afraid You're a Hippie."
I mean, yeah, 'cause a lot of hippies became Christians.
- Right.
It's a very logical step.
- And I listened to some other Christian rock from the era
and it's like, it's just like,
it's very like forgettable music.
- Mm.
- Wait, so why don't we listen to--
- Yeah, we should--
- Just start at the top.
- "UFO"?
- "UFO."
- I know you've sent this to me
and I've listened to some of this before,
but I don't totally remember,
but I'm interested.
Why is the father of Christian rock
writing a song called "UFO"?
I'm very interested to hear.
(soft music)
So what year is this?
- This is like, I think '76.
This is more like--
- Oh, later.
♪ He's an unidentified flying object ♪
♪ You will see him in the air ♪
♪ He's an unidentified flying object ♪
♪ And you will drop your hands and stare ♪
♪ You will be afraid to tell your neighbors ♪
♪ They might think that it's not true ♪
♪ But when you open up the morning papers ♪
♪ You will know they've seen it too ♪
(soft music)
♪ He will come back like he promised ♪
♪ With a price already paid ♪
♪ He will gather up his followers ♪
♪ And take them all away ♪
♪ He's an unidentified flying object ♪
♪ He will sweep down from the sky ♪
- You think Jesus is a UFO?
- I think so.
I think he's saying Jesus is--
- He's an unidentified--
- Yeah, I know.
'Cause he's talking about later,
Jesus has gone to other planets and saved their souls.
- Whoa.
- We'll get to that.
So yeah, you can see how a church elder would be like,
what?
(laughing)
- Stick to the script, Larry.
♪ He will take away your stone ♪
♪ And if there's life on other planets ♪
♪ Then I'm sure that he must know ♪
♪ That he's been there once already ♪
♪ And has died to save their souls ♪
♪ He's an unidentified flying object ♪
- That feedback coming from--
♪ You will see him in the air ♪
♪ He's an unidentified flying object ♪
♪ And you will drop your hands and stare ♪
♪ He's an unidentified flying object ♪
♪ Coming back to take you home ♪
- A little bit of a Shannon Hoon vibe.
- Yeah, totally.
♪ He will take away your stone ♪
- And then I love how this song transitions
right into the next song.
I've searched all around the world.
'Cause a lot of the Christian rock stuff
was real like folky, which this one very much is.
- Yeah.
- But then this one, the next song just goes into this
kind of light touch, uptempo, like funky rock.
♪ Darkness can't hide much longer ♪
♪ The spirit is getting stronger ♪
♪ You keep the dance halls humming ♪
♪ But the end of the age is coming ♪
♪ I searched all around the world to find a place ♪
- This is like the happiest song saying
like the end of the world's coming.
♪ I opened the mouth to love ♪
♪ And I found the wisdom to ♪
♪ Maybe you think I'm plastic ♪
♪ But your situation's drastic ♪
♪ I'm glad my faith is stronger ♪
♪ This world won't last much longer ♪
- He's got a cool voice.
♪ I searched all around the world to find a place of peace ♪
♪ I sat in the shade of God and I watched the sun ♪
- So this is his best selling album.
- Yeah, this is the one from '76.
- And Dudley Moore played piano on it.
- Apparently.
Yeah, he made like a trilogy of records
after the first one.
The first one was sort of like about the past.
It's called like, it's called like "In the Garden."
And they made one that was set in the present.
And then this is from the one that's set in the future.
♪ Can't you hear someone calling ♪
♪ Life all around is crumbling ♪
♪ I think this world is stumbling ♪
♪ Maybe you think I'm wrong now ♪
- He's got a great rock voice.
♪ But this is my only stumbling block ♪
♪ I searched all around the world to find a greater truth ♪
♪ I opened my mouth to love and it's not enough ♪
- Not a very successful career.
Like the quote that is frequently attributed to him
when you do a little research is,
he's basically like, "I was too Christian for the rock scene
and too rock for the Christian scene."
- Yeah, it wasn't the right era for it.
- Caught in the middle.
- Yeah.
♪ I searched all around the world to find a greater truth ♪
♪ I opened my mouth to love and I found a greater truth ♪
♪ I searched all around, I searched all around ♪
♪ I searched all around the world ♪
♪ I searched all around the world ♪
- What else should we listen to?
Is there some earlier stuff on this playlist?
- Go to the last one on the, I wish we'd been all ready,
like the last song on the playlist.
This is from 1969.
This is from the "Upon This Rock" album.
This is a straight up Rapture song.
[playing "Upon This Rock"]
♪ Life was filled with guns and war ♪
♪ And everyone got trampled on the floor ♪
♪ I wish we'd all been ready ♪
- It's almost like a weirdo Neil Young.
- Yeah, the high voice.
♪ A piece of bread could buy a bag of gold ♪
♪ I wish we'd all been ready ♪
♪ There's no time to change your mind ♪
♪ The sun has come and you've been left behind ♪
- You've been left behind.
♪ A man and wife, a sleeping bitch ♪
♪ He hears a noise and turns her head ♪
♪ He's gone ♪
♪ I wish we'd all been ready ♪
♪ Two men walking up a hill ♪
♪ One disappears and one's left standing still ♪
♪ I wish we'd all been ready ♪
♪ There's no time to change your mind ♪
♪ The sun has come and you've been left behind ♪
- Wrecking Crew played on this record.
- Really?
- Yeah.
- It's a really strong blend.
The string arrangement, it's a little bit like Nico.
Christian Nico.
- Totally.
- These days.
- Yeah, I just...
Something about his aesthetic is so...
He's a great songwriter.
And it's coming out of the same aesthetic ferment of...
- A lot of classics.
- So much classics.
But then...
I don't know why I'm so fascinated by this dude.
♪ I wish we'd all been ready ♪
♪ Children died, the days grew cold ♪
♪ A piece of bread could buy a bag of gold ♪
♪ I wish we'd all been ready ♪
♪ All been ready ♪
♪ No time to change your mind ♪
♪ How could you have been so blind ♪
- She covered Jackson Brown.
Covered Larry Norman.
Dude, imagine Elvis doing this.
- Yeah, oh, sick.
♪ You've been left behind ♪
- I wonder if Elvis heard Larry Norman.
- Interesting.
- I was reading that Frank Black from the Pixies
is a huge Larry Norman head.
And apparently when Larry Norman died,
he was working on a record with Frank Black
and Isaac Brock from Modest Mouse.
- Whoa.
- And then I was reading this other thing too,
like U2 famously, like a low-key Christian band.
- Right.
- How Bono had met with all these Nashville songwriters
back in the early 2000s before Larry Norman died.
And he showed up and he's like,
"Is Larry Norman gonna come?"
He asked for Larry Norman.
- 'Cause he knew this music?
- Yeah.
- Like what we've been listening to?
- Bono apparently.
- It just circulated and--
- Yeah.
- I guess in the Christian scene.
- Yeah.
I think that last record he made from,
or not the last, he made a ton of,
his career gets very confusing as the '80s progressed
'cause there's a ton of sort of like bootlegs
and like re-releases and like every album
like after the first four, you would read about it
and there'd be like a three-year protracted legal battle.
Like every album was on like a different label.
His career sort of became like very hard to track.
- And he was living in London for a while.
- Yeah, he moved to London.
Apparently went to a lot of punk shows.
- Oh, so open-minded guy.
- Yeah.
- He says he saw Richard Hell and the Voidoids,
The Damned and the Dead Boys.
He initially disliked the lyrical content of punk.
He was supportive of its youthful energy
and preferred it to disco.
Interesting.
(laughing)
And like, did he have a family?
You know anything about that?
- I know he was married.
I don't know if he had children.
You would think he would have,
being a Christian man and all.
- Right.
- I don't know if he had any crossover with Elvis,
though many articles call him the Elvis of Christian rock.
I mean, that's sort of how he's known.
- Yeah, the John Lennon of Christian rock,
the Elvis of Christian rock.
- But he did write a song--
- He was the king of rock of Christian rock.
- Yes.
- But he did write a song called Elvis Has Left the Building.
- Oh, wow.
Let's check it out.
I wonder if it's like late period Larry.
- It's definitely--
- See, but it's weird--
- It's definitely a late period Larry.
- Oh, hell yeah.
His look is also awesome.
Just like bangs with like the long blonde hair.
- Long blonde hair.
- But like people call him like the Elvis
or the John Lennon of Christian rock,
but those are like beloved figures.
Like Larry was, his, everything I was reading,
it just, he seemed like he had a very contagious relationship
with like his audience and like--
- Yeah, that's not an appropriate comparison.
- The record industry.
Yeah, it's like, it's much, it's too like,
he's too like embittered.
- Right, and I imagine, you know,
I don't totally know here,
but I imagine in the 60s was the start of kind of like
alternative forms of Christianity taking hold.
So probably like you were saying that a lot of the church
denounced him and you could imagine by like the 90s
when you have these really big Christian rock bands,
the DC Talks or whoever bands that we've all at least heard of,
you can imagine by then,
like the counterculture had done its thing
and probably anybody in a power position at a church
by the 90s would just welcome
any sort of alternative Christianity thing
that might win back the youth.
- Yeah, something that had some like cache
in like cultural circles.
- Right, and even if it was like a little bit out there,
well, let's check this out.
Elvis has left the building.
This is from, this is from '94.
- Hell yeah.
(laughing)
♪ Lean not on your own understanding ♪
♪ But lay your burdens down ♪
♪ Lean not on the gates of grace ♪
- His voice sounds great.
- It sounds awesome.
- Not exactly the tasteful palette of the 1970s.
♪ Lean not on any person ♪
♪ But stand up straight and strong ♪
♪ And keep your feet on the ground ♪
- It sounds like he's affecting a bit of a Southern.
- It always kind of did, it did sound.
♪ They wept when Elvis breathed his last ♪
♪ Down on the bathroom floor ♪
♪ Year after year they shed a tear ♪
♪ And love him even more ♪
♪ They lay their flowers on his grave ♪
- Conga player going hard, yeah.
(laughing)
♪ But those who worship idols ♪
♪ Don't comprehend the cross ♪
♪ Elvis you've left the building ♪
♪ The God is in the house ♪
♪ I wonder what you said with your head ♪
- He's kind of saying don't get it twisted.
Elvis is a false idol, there's only one God.
♪ God help me, help me God ♪
♪ When comes the resurrection ♪
♪ Will you waken from your death ♪
♪ Not worried 'bout your money ♪
♪ Not bothered by your drugs ♪
♪ You dress like Liberace ♪
- That's kind of an anti-Elvis song.
♪ I don't care about the women ♪
♪ You were an outlaw on the run ♪
♪ But at the end were you man enough ♪
♪ To repent from all you've done ♪
- Yeah, Larry's judgy.
- Maybe that was his big problem.
- Yeah, it sounded like he was a real pain in the ass.
(laughing)
He's like real, I mean, you know,
classic religious zealot.
- Right.
- Kind of looking down his nose.
That song sounded great though.
I loved the vibe of that song.
- And honestly, also really following
the Neil Young trajectory,
you could totally picture a late Neil Young song.
♪ Elvis left the building ♪
(laughing)
Ultimately the problem was he was just a little too judgy.
- You know what he's funny?
- 'Cause everyone's like, come on man, it's Elvis, dude.
He's dead, dude.
Say something nice about the guy.
- Yeah, come on, man.
- Nope.
- You know what's funny?
- He's a false prophet.
(laughing)
- You know what's funny, talking about Larry Norman,
I was just thinking about another Norman,
first name Norman, last name Greenbaum.
You know who I'm talking about, Jake?
- I do.
Spirit in the Sky?
- Spirit in the Sky.
- Nice, dude.
- I was just randomly,
I was like looking for something to watch
on a streaming service.
- As you do.
- As one does.
And I randomly saw this movie
I'd never seen, a 1990 film called Miami Blues
starring Alec Baldwin.
- Not familiar.
- Very weird movie.
He plays this kind of like insane guy
who just got out of prison,
he just lands in Miami and just immediately
kills someone at the airport.
It's very weird, he's like a nut.
- Did you watch the whole movie?
- I watched the whole movie, but it opens,
you would enjoy it, it's like a weird time capsule
and it's like 1990 Miami.
- Wow.
- Very gritty.
- I would love to see this.
- Anyway, the movie opens and closes
with Spirit in the Sky, which I hadn't heard in a while.
I don't know too much about this song.
The song you always hear is that this guy's named
Norman Greenbaum, super Jewish name.
- Yeah.
- And he's like a Jewish guy who just like
wrote this song, just like came to him.
'Cause it's all about Jesus.
And you really listen to it and it's like
such cool tones.
(guitar music)
- Is that like a guitar?
- I guess, and there's this part.
- Yeah, let's see.
- Iconic.
(guitar music)
♫ When I die and I lay me to rest
♫ Gonna go to the place that's the best
♫ When I lay me down to die
♫ Going up to the Spirit in the sky
♫ Going up to the Spirit in the sky ♫
- Yeah, Larry would've loved this one,
you gotta think.
Although maybe Larry's too judgy, he's like,
yeah, we'll see, we'll see if you go up there.
Why don't you tell me what you did in your life, Norman?
- Norman, have you repented?
- Total one hit wonder, too.
- Yeah, wonder what he did.
- I think he kinda retired from music.
- Sort of like a Martin Quintington style.
- Yeah, exactly.
(guitar music)
♫ Prepare yourself, you know it's impossible
♫ Gotta have a friend in Jesus
♫ So you know that when you die
♫ He's gonna recommend you to the Spirit in the sky
♫ That's where you're gonna go when you die
♫ When you die and you lay to rest
♫ You're gonna go to the place that's the best ♫
- I mean, this is also kinda like glam rock.
- You think he was listening to T-Rex and Gary Glitter?
- This is from 1969, this song.
- Oh, this is from '69?
Wait, did he invent glam rock?
- He's still alive, he's 79 years old.
(guitar music)
Raised in an Orthodox Jewish household.
(guitar music)
- I love this.
Performed with various bands in high school
and studied music at Boston University for two years.
Eventually dropped out and moved to LA in '65.
Perfect.
- Hell yeah.
- He probably like played on a bill with Larry Norman.
- Oh, possible, with people.
- Totally.
♫ So you know that when I die
♫ He's gonna set me up in the Spirit in the sky
- In the late '60s, Norman Greenbaum
was a producer and composer for Dr. Weth's medicine show,
Junk Band, which recorded the novelty hit,
The Eggplant That Ate Chicago.
(laughs)
We gotta listen to that.
- The Eggplant That Ate Chicago?
- The group's psychedelic approach was too eccentric
for mainstream show business.
(guitar music)
(sizzling)
(guitar music)
(sizzling)
(guitar music)
(sizzling)
(guitar music)
(sizzling)
(guitar music)
(sizzling)
- Wait, this is Sadie Greensell's ragtime junk band.
- No, we want Dr. Weth's medicine show, Junk Band.
- This is the only version on Apple Music.
- Okay, this is terrible.
(laughs)
- Comic stand?
- This is like real square folk music,
like trying to be funny.
Real like, pray-arm companion.
♫ The Eggplant That Ate Chicago
♫ The Eggplant That Ate Chicago
♫ If he's still hungry
♫ The whole country's cool
- So yeah, the producer of Spirit in the Sky
radically changed the arrangement,
double-tracked Greenbaum's vocals,
released the record in late '69,
it skyrocketed to number one in almost all worldwide markets.
It sold two million copies.
- Whoa.
- The single.
- You know, it's funny, sometimes there's these songs,
I guess Larry Norman could not hit that sweet spot,
but you think about like Spirit in the Sky,
Jesus Walks by Kanye,
they're simultaneously just so overtly Christian
that anybody who truly was Christian would be like,
wow, you're really saying something about Jesus and faith,
and yet for some reason, just anybody can listen to them.
- Yeah, or
♫ Jesus is just all right with me
Not as big a hit, but.
- That's Doobies?
- I think so, and there's also,
there's a Stephen Stills one too that's real Jesus-y.
- Yeah, but this was a big hit, I think.
- Yeah.
♫ Do do do do do do do do
♫ Do do do do do do do do
- It is Jesus is just all right with me, right?
- Right, he's just all right.
♫ He's just all right
- Key song in Days of Confused, right?
- Oh, yeah, it's a real Days of Confused one.
- I mean, it's not yet, not a glowing endorsement.
- Just all right.
♫ I don't care what they may say
♫ I don't care what they may do
- This is kind of like Santana Light.
♫ Hey, Jesus is just all right
♫ Oh yeah, Jesus is just all right
♫ Do do do do do do do do
♫ Do do do do do do do
♫ Do do do do do do do
♫ Jesus is just all right with me
♫ Jesus is just all right
♫ Oh yeah, Jesus is just all right with me
♫ Jesus is just all right
- Not a great song.
- No spirit in the sky, and either Larry Norman,
we should close out with?
- Oh yeah, hold on, I was just looking up Stephen Stills.
♫ Jesus is just all right with me
- Let's go out on an up note, right?
- Yeah.
- Let's do Peace, Pollution, Revolution.
- So what era is this?
- Like '71 or something.
- Okay.
♫ The word is revolution
♫ But no one's fired the shots
- A little like Van, totally.
- Yeah, his up-tempo stuff is like nimble.
He never gets into like sludgy, heavy stuff.
♫ As we near the battle line
♫ But if you're truly wise
♫ You keep your eyes on Palestine
- Whoa, keep your eyes on Palestine.
- That's like Maripa.
♫ The water is polluted
♫ And the air is filled with death
♫ Someday it won't be easy
♫ To stop and catch your breath
♫ But it's all in revelation
♫ It's part of the design
♫ If you're truly wise
♫ You keep your eyes on Palestine
- Whoa.
- He's always just like, the world is crap,
it's dirty, it's polluted.
It's supposed to be like this,
'cause Revelation said it.
We're at the end of the world.
♫ La la la la la la
- So you can see why it wasn't popular.
- Yeah, yeah, right, it's really interesting.
So was he at peace with the world going so wrong
because it's part of the design?
- I think 'cause he felt he had God in his heart.
- Yeah.
- I think he was.
I mean, he was making really,
I think really like affirmative art.
Like very uplifting, beautiful art
dealing with troubling subject matter.
Maybe that's why I'm so interested in him.
'Cause a lot of my favorite artists
kind of work in that mode.
♫ If you're truly wise
♫ You keep your eyes on Palestine
♫ La la la la la la
- I mean, it's a little bit like
Bruce Springsteen, Born in the USA.
Like the verses are about like these Vietnam vets
having a real tough time.
- Yeah.
- In this kind of inverted patriotism
with this triumphant chorus.
But you know what, Larry's the Bruce Springsteen
of Christian rock.
- Right.
You could even see like a really religious person
hearing this song and being like,
"Wait, what are you trying to,
"what exactly are you saying, Larry?"
- Yeah, this is a bummer.
- Because he's not even saying
all these bad things are happening in the world
but have faith, God's on our side.
It's more cryptic, all these bad things are happening
but listen to me, you keep your eyes on Palestine.
- Yeah.
♫ La la la la la la
♫ La la la la la la la la
♫ La la la la la la la la la
♫ La la la la la la la la la
♫ La la la la la la la la la
- Matt just sent over a tweet
from this guy Gregory Thornberry
who actually wrote a biography of Larry Norman
which I read part of a while ago.
But here's a tweet,
"Larry Norman once opened up for Van Morrison.
"He noticed that Van asked the band to take long solos.
"During each, he strode over to the grand piano
"and bowed his head.
"At first, Larry thought,
"'He's so deeply moved by the music.'
"Then he realized, 'Oh, he's reading the newspaper.'"
(laughing)
- Just Van back to the audience, head bowed.
- Van drunk.
- Just reading that day's newspaper
flattened out on top of the piano.
♫ And if you're truly wise
♫ You keep your eyes on Palestine
- I have to follow this guy Gregory Thornberry.
Author, why should the devil have all the good music?
Larry Norman and the Perils of Christian Rock.
- Oh, I mean.
- I gotta crack that book again.
I started it and then it ended up
on the bottom of a stack of books, you know?
It sat there for like a year.
- Move it to the top of the pile now.
- I gotta move to the top.
♫ And if you're truly wise
♫ You keep your eyes on Palestine
(laughing)
- Larry Norman, wow, thanks for that, Jake.
He's a deep dude.
Because this is a banked up, we're not trying to hide it.
It's a banked up, a recently banked up.
So rather than do the top five
for whatever day we're recording this,
we decided to do something a little more evergreen.
Our producer, Matt, pulled the top alternative songs
from the weeks each of us turned 18.
The alternative songs chart, by the way,
was known as the Modern Rock Charts before 2009.
- Modern Rock.
- So this is more like the Modern Rock Songs
from when we turned 18.
This is the moment that we officially entered adulthood.
This is what we were jamming on alternative radio.
- So this is 1995 and 2002 or one?
- So you turned 18.
- In '95, February of '95.
- And I did in April 2002.
- Okay, I think mine is gonna absolutely mop the floor.
- '95 versus 2002, I mean the truth is--
- I'm gonna crush.
- Yeah.
- Mid '90s?
- Yeah, it's gonna crush.
I mean, the truth is,
I probably listen to alternative radio more often
when I was 11 in 1995.
By 2002, I'm trying to even remember
what was going on musically then.
By 2002, I was pretty deep into everything.
I wasn't guided by the radio, not to brag,
but just like--
- No, you were a music nerd.
- I was a music nerd.
I was buying deep records and CDs
and going to other music.
- And the stuff on the radio sucked in 2002.
- It was getting worse and worse.
And I feel like even my local station, KROQ,
not to be confused with K-R-O-Q in LA,
but K-ROQ, R-O-C-K in New York,
I feel like that had almost changed formats at that point.
Maybe not quite, but yeah, in 2002 also,
I vividly remember, let's see,
in 2000, my slightly older buddy, Andre,
who I mentioned in the last episode,
works at Dimes, he went to college
for a semester at BU, and I went to visit him.
And I vividly, so, okay, so he was a freshman at BU,
probably like fall 2000, and I took the train to Boston,
and we hung out for a weekend,
and I vividly remember him showing me Napster
for the first time, or maybe at Soul Seek.
It was kind of like a cooler file sharing service.
So I kind of remember by 2000,
being in early file sharing era,
and what music, he was probably listening
to all sorts of weird stuff, Auditor, Warp Records,
and he liked some deep stuff, Momus, and Piano Magic.
Just by 2002, I was already a few years deep
into this alternate universe of record stores, Soul Seek,
just a slightly wider spectrum.
But I still was interested in what was going on then.
But yeah, when I think of 2002,
feels like a much less classic era than '95.
But let's see.
(electronic music)
- It's time for the Top Five on iTunes.
- Okay, so we're gonna start with the number five song,
Jake, in your year, Bush, Everything Zen.
Is that a strong start in your worldview?
- I think it's gonna be strong in context
to what's gonna come in 2002.
I think at the time, I thought Bush was pretty weak.
- Right.
- But then when we get into like Hoobastank or something,
Bush is gonna sound like the kinks in comparison.
(laughing)
- And I'll point out, I had this CD.
There's something about, I liked a few Bush songs,
but I feel like maybe I got it
through Columbia House or something.
I feel like you probably, yeah,
I could totally imagine you hearing Bush
and just being like you remember when Nevermind came out
and you're probably like, Bush sucks.
I don't know why, where I grew up, everybody had this CD.
Everybody had 16 Stone.
This was like, (laughing)
sad to say, this was like Nevermind.
- I never owned this, but yeah.
- This is like Nevermind for silverback millennials.
- Absolutely.
(electronic music)
I feel like this album was produced by Steve Albini.
- It sounds pretty good.
- No, my bad, it wasn't.
Steve Albini produced Razorblade Suitcase,
which is the one album.
(electronic music)
This actually sounds great.
(electronic music)
So this is the first Bush hit, I think.
- I think so.
- I should have thought of those lyrics.
- Great lyrics.
(rock music)
♪ We kiss the kiss in the rearview ♪
♪ We're so bored you're to blame ♪
♪ Trust you once my wife ♪
♪ Everything's in, everything's in ♪
♪ I don't think so ♪
♪ Everything's in, everything's in ♪
♪ I don't think so ♪
(rock music)
- It's not bad.
I mean, Glycerine's a better song.
♪ The rain dogs howl for the century ♪
♪ A million dollars at stake ♪
- I'm pretty into these verse hits.
- It is kind of interesting, like, cut up weird lyrics.
♪ And you think we're the same ♪
♪ There's no sex in your violence ♪
- Oh yeah.
♪ There's no sex in your violence ♪
- What the hell is that mean?
♪ There's no sex in your violence ♪
♪ There's no sex in your violence ♪
♪ Trust you once my wife ♪
♪ Everything's in, everything's in ♪
♪ I don't think so ♪
♪ Everything's in, everything's in ♪
♪ I don't think so ♪
♪ Everything's in, everything's in ♪
(rock music)
- Pretty sound guard, this part.
- Yeah.
♪ I don't believe that Elvis is dead, yeah ♪
- I don't believe that Elvis is dead.
- Well, talk to Larry Norman.
♪ I don't believe that Elvis is dead, yeah ♪
♪ I don't believe that Elvis is, Elvis is ♪
- Pretty weak bridge there.
♪ I don't believe that Elvis is dead ♪
♪ Young as, as young as does ♪
♪ Twist yourself like a pretzel ♪
(rock music)
- This is so '90s.
The tom beat with the bass.
♪ I'm my ass (beep) brother ♪
(laughing)
(rock music)
- And what's the story with Bush?
Like, they weren't very popular in the UK, only in the US.
- I think so.
- Which is the reverse of, like, cool bands.
- Right.
(laughing)
- I mean, the opposite of Oasis.
- I mean, Oasis was popular here, but--
- No, that's that huge part of them.
Oh, can you, yeah, you know, you saw the documentary
when they show up here, they're so famous in the UK.
- Oh, yeah, yeah.
- And then they show up in America
and nobody really knows who they are.
- Well, yeah, the first Oasis tour in, like, '94,
or whatever it was, they were playing, like,
bars that, like, my band played seven years later, you know?
♪ I'm my ass, I'm my ass ♪
♪ And I'm fuckin' Zen, I'm fuckin' Zen ♪
♪ I don't think so ♪
- The title is believed to be inspired
by Allen Ginsberg's poem "Hell,"
which includes the line, "Who vanished into nowhere
"Zen New Jersey."
Gavin Rostell didn't want to talk about New Jersey.
♪ I don't think so ♪
- The lyrics reference songs from David Bowie, Tom Waits,
Jane's Addiction, and Alice in Chains?
I don't know what the AIC ref is.
- Were you guys aware that in Canada,
Bush is called Bush X?
- Oh, why?
Is there a Canadian band called Bush?
- Yeah, and they got into a dispute, and so--
- Bush X?
- That album had to be released as Bush X.
And I remember being in Canada,
and everybody was sort of like, "Oh, that's so lame."
- Oh, 'cause even at the time,
you understood that was not the actual name of the band?
- Oh, for sure.
Yeah, I think they'd already been coming out
as just Bush for a bit, and then had to change it.
- Wait, so you can buy 16 Stone Canadian Edition
and it says Bush X?
- Yeah, it's got a little, like, to the power of X.
- Whoa.
- And then they allowed them to drop it later.
In '97, they reached an agreement
in which Bush was permitted to use the name Bush
without X in exchange for donating 20K
to the Starlight Foundation,
which is a Canadian, oh, which is a charity,
North American charity.
- They should have just gone by Bushes.
- That's right, yeah.
- I wonder when Bush was elected in 2000,
if they were like, "Oh, man."
- That was kind of the beginning of the end for them.
- Yeah, it's true.
- Right there in '95, Kate Bush was on sabbatical.
There was no Bush in the White House.
Perfect time for a band called Bush to come out.
- Wide open lane.
- Well, Jake, I think your prophecy's coming to pass,
depending on how you look at it.
The number five song in my year, 2002,
"Our Good Friends," stained.
- Oh, hell yeah.
- With "For You."
- Released Christmas Day, 2001.
(laughing)
Oh, harsher palette, harsher vibe.
(rock music)
♪ To my mother, to my father ♪
♪ It's your son or it's your daughter ♪
♪ I might scream loud enough for you ♪
- This is some of the worst music ever recorded.
I just, I hate this period of alternative rock.
- Hey, man, this is my music.
- I was fully like, I don't know if I know this song.
- I would like put on the station,
hoping to hear Weezer or something,
and it was like this.
I would just be like.
- So moving on, break the cycle.
This album cost $800,000 to record,
which led Elektra Records to worry about
whether or not it would be successful.
It was successful.
- Too big to fail.
- Ezra, how does a band, especially at this time,
spend $800,000?
- You know, back then,
they would probably just post up in an expensive studio
and just like, that really adds up.
- Just, yeah, like the day rate is like 10 grand or something.
- Yeah, maybe the producer had a high fee,
the mix, or I don't know,
flying around the whole band
from Massachusetts to Los Angeles.
- Bottles of Patron.
- Yep.
- Elaborate sushi dinners.
- See, I don't know if I even really know this song.
- I don't know this song at all.
- I mean, if it was, it's been a while,
we would actually be equal.
- Yeah, I agree with that.
- Bush Everything's End versus Stain, it's been a while.
- We couldn't get through that whole song.
(laughing)
Let's move on.
- All right, back to '95.
Jake's here.
- Back to the good old days, huh?
- The Stone Roses, that's kind of a surprise.
- Yeah, that is a surprise.
- With Love Spreads.
- I don't know if I know this one.
- You always get these funny surprise
on the modern rock charts.
You get some weird UK,
'cause I could see how like for one week,
like radio took a chance on like a cool UK band
and then it just like slid off the charts.
- Yeah.
- So this is the Stone Roses' like comeback album.
- Yeah, 'cause they had that big one in like--
- '89.
- Yeah, yeah.
Stone Roses' lead guitarist, John Squire,
wrote Love Spreads,
which challenged the conventional view of Jesus.
It's just a real Christian episode.
- Yeah.
- In his lyrics, Squire portrayed the image of Jesus
as a black woman being crucified.
- Larry Norman, not happy.
- Nope.
- Well, I expect, I actually respect the creativity.
- This is not so good.
- Yeah, I never fully,
I need someone to really explain to me
the Stone Roses' trajectory.
I could see how like,
the fact that they're English makes me like this
a little more.
If this was just like a Black Crowes record from '95,
we would just be like, turn it off.
- Yeah.
- Get out of here.
- I guess picturing the Stone Roses get kind of like,
dang on it, like classic rock is kind of interesting.
♪ Love spreads around ♪
♪ Waits there for the man you love ♪
- What's the vocals come in?
It's tighter.
- Yeah, it's different now.
- 'Cause yeah, the classic Stone Roses song
was I Want to Be Adored.
- Right.
- And like, way more indie.
- Yeah.
- By alternative.
♪ Some cross the bed ♪
♪ I'm hiding in the trees with a paper bag ♪
- I'll tell you one thing about this song,
just to compare it to something else from the similar era.
It's pretty good.
I'm not mad at the classic rock reference,
and forgive me Stone Roses fans,
'cause I really do like Stone Roses.
But as far as throwback mid-'90s songs,
this song wipes the floor with it.
♪
- I hate crowd this, but fair enough.
- Oh, listen, this song sounds good.
♪
For 1993, you kind of got to get it up for him.
♪
- Like, it's pretty tasteful.
- To me, it's just so Hendrix, that riff.
- Yes.
- The other stuff is like more generic,
which in a way I respond to more.
- Like when you're just ripping off one guy.
- Yeah.
♪ I've been going ♪
♪ I've been taking everyone ♪
♪ I've been going ♪
- This is straight off of Electric Lady Wayne.
- So you respect the Stone Roses song more?
- It's like a specific Hendrix--
Yeah, kind of.
It's like a specific era of Hendrix he's dealing with.
♪
- Yeah, shake it out.
- That's a shake-up.
- You got to give it up for that part.
♪
- I don't know what I'm doing.
♪
♪ I just go my way ♪
♪
♪ I'm really experienced ♪
♪
♪ Green, greeny ♪
- All right, what about this?
♪
- Genius. Love this.
- Okay, you got it.
All right, so you don't hate Kravitz.
- Best Kravitz song.
- Okay.
- This song rules.
I wish he had stayed in this mode.
- Yeah, he kind of never went back to it.
- He went so rock, which is just kind of, eh.
♪
- What year is this?
- I think this is, like, late '80s.
This is earlier. '89, '90.
- ♪ Here we are ♪
♪ Still together ♪
♪ We are ♪
♪
♪ So much time wasted ♪
♪ Playing games with love ♪
- I'm excited if Kravitz just went, like, full yacht rock.
- Totally.
- Like, this is kind of like a tasteful early '70s song.
He just could have kept going deeper and deeper into--
- Yeah, this is like some Seals and Croft or something.
- Or like, uh...
- Jackson 5.
- Yeah, totally.
- ♪ Games we've tried ♪
♪ To keep our love alive ♪
♪ But, baby, it ain't over till it's over ♪
- All right, wait, what about...
- ♪ Love ♪
♪ Is gentle as a rose ♪
- I kind of respect that this is '89.
- Yeah.
- ♪ Love ♪
♪ Can conquer anyone ♪
♪
♪ It's time to take a stand ♪
♪ Brothers and sisters, join in ♪
♪ We've got to let love rule ♪
- Oh, yeah.
- Ha!
- You respect it?
- This is tight.
- All right, Jake is a Kravitz fan.
- Early work.
- No denying it.
- ♪ We've got to let love rule ♪
♪
♪
- Okay, the number four song back in my year, '02,
"Hoova Snake."
- Oh, called it.
- ♪
- I'm not even getting the best songs from these artists.
I'm not even getting the reason.
- ♪
- Did I ever tell the story on the show that one time
we played SNL and the host was Zach Galifianakis?
I'm a huge fan.
- Oh, yeah, I think you did.
- Legendary comedian.
I think--no, I told you.
I can't remember if I told it on the show,
but I'll tell it again.
During the rehearsals when they'd run the whole show,
so he has to do the part,
"Ladies and gentlemen, Vampire Weekend,"
he kept--and he did it every single rehearsal,
he'll go, "Ladies and gentlemen, Hoova Snake."
- And they don't stop, they just cut past me and do it.
I really was kind of worried he was going to do it.
Show day.
He did not.
He's a pro.
- "Ladies and gentlemen, Hoova Snake."
- ♪ I've been haunted ♪
♪ I've been crawling in the dark ♪
♪ Looking for the answer ♪
♪ Help me carry on ♪
♪ Surely it's okay to ♪
♪ Use my heart and not my eyes ♪
- This is tough, but--
but you gotta give it up for--
this is such a funny era.
Okay, but you gotta give it up for this.
[upbeat music]
♪ ♪
- ♪ I'm not a perfect person ♪
- [laughs]
- ♪ For as many things I wish I knew ♪
- Hell yeah, this is a solid song.
- ♪ But I continue learning ♪
♪ I never meant to do those things to you ♪
- Not the most tasteful palette.
Just gonna use the early Lenny Kravitz palette.
- ♪ So I have to say before I go ♪
♪ That I just want you to know ♪
♪ I found a reason for me ♪
- [laughs]
- ♪ To change ♪
- What do you think about this harmony?
- It's really funny.
- ♪ A reason to start over new ♪
♪ And the reason is you ♪
- I feel like a lot of modern country dudes
wish they had a power ballad this good.
- Oh, for sure.
- I mean, this would be so perfect
for a modern country dude.
- ♪ Something I must live with every day ♪
- ♪ Know the pain I put you through ♪
- ♪ I wish that I could take it all away ♪
- This is, like, a nice change here.
- ♪ I'm the one who catches all your tears ♪
♪ That's why I need you to hear ♪
♪ I found a reason for me ♪
♪ To change you ♪
- It's like a weird, mute version
of, like, the Benz-era radio ad.
- Yeah, it is pretty early radio ad.
- That, like, soaring anthemic.
- Yeah.
- ♪ And the reason is you ♪
♪ And the reason is you ♪
♪ And the reason is you ♪
- What's the, like, reference that they're using
that Radiohead wouldn't use?
- Well, just, I mean, the production is different
and the lyrics.
- Yeah, but, like, if Radiohead's making the Benz
and they're, like...
- Well, this is also just, like, seven years later,
so I think it's just, like, everything sounds
just, like, a little cleaner.
- More compressed.
- Auto-tune. - Uh-huh.
- Just, like, cheesier, more digital.
- And the guys in the band were, like, presumably, like,
"This sounds good."
- Well, they're probably, like, "This sounds, like, fresh
and, like, kind of, like, pop-oriented or something."
- I wonder if there was ever a moment where they were, like,
"I don't know, is this too much?
Is the auto-tune a little too obvious?
Is it a little too..."
Should we make it a little more, kind of, warmer
and '70s sounding?
- They're never gonna do, like...
Yeah, it's...
Very few people are doing that then.
And I guess they were coming at it from being this, like,
hard rock band, so...
I don't know.
They're just coming at it from a totally different angle.
♪ I found a reason to show ♪
♪ A side of me you didn't know ♪
♪ A reason for all that I do ♪
♪ And the reason is you ♪
- Speaking of Radiohead the bands,
I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the bootleg T-shirt
I saw online and I sent to the thread.
I've sent it to a lot of people.
I debated if I should send it to Ed O'Brien,
front of the show.
- Nice.
- Because I don't know what the cultural difference is
in being British, if you would understand.
I'd like to describe it to the listeners.
It's a...
It's the cover of the bands,
which you might recall is kind of like a crash test dummy
looking mannequin face with its mouth open.
You could either interpret that as being kind of in pain
or in ecstasy, it's unsure.
But where it says Radiohead,
somebody, a very smart, funny person,
changed the place where it said Radiohead to say road (beep)
and on first glance, the words are so similar.
And if you don't know what road (beep) is,
then I'm going to assume you don't need to know.
And then instead of saying the bands,
it says the best.
And there's just something about that,
that mannequin face with,
it starts to look like a smile.
- Yeah, it recontextualized the face.
- And there's something so stupid about it to me,
but there's like smiling dummy and just road (beep)
and the best.
Especially because Radiohead is very serious.
- They're so serious.
- So Radiohead, the bands, turned into road (beep)
the best.
- Yeah, I mean, you always assume
that the face on that cover is in pain
and it's called the bands.
And it's a Radiohead album, they're serious.
It can only be agony that's being expressed on that cover.
It never occurred to anyone that it was pleasure.
And it completely flips it on its head.
It's just like, the best.
(laughing)
(beep)
- You should send that to Ed O'Brien.
- If it wasn't Radiohead, I think it's too deep.
- How do you set that up for Ed O'Brien
so that he takes it in the spirit of-
- Yeah, we don't know each other quite well enough.
- What's road (beep)
- I think you got to preamble like,
just so you know, you got to explain it before you send it.
- Cheers, mate. What the (beep) is this?
(laughing)
- Send to Tom, question mark?
(laughing)
- Please forward to Tom.
I mean, I sent it to a lot of just random people I know.
For a lot of people, I just sent it to them.
Would you wear this?
- Oh, the classic, would you wear?
- Would you wear?
I think we need to get this shirt
and Jake needs to wear it to his local coffee shop.
- Absolutely.
There's no world where I'm wearing that shirt.
- Here's the thing, it's not even that aggressive
because most people will look at it
and really just think you're wearing a Radiohead,
the Benz shirt because road (beep) Radiohead looks so similar
when they're written out in the same font.
- It's just going to be some,
the person who's going to notice is some 23 year old woman
who's just at her laptop sitting at the thing
that's like looking at it for usually three, four times.
And then finally she's like, what the (beep)
- Oh, like I love that album.
- I can't, there's no way.
- You know what you do, you send it to Liam Gallagher.
- Ooh.
- You say, you know, you test the humor over there.
You say, would Tom like this?
- Liam, I know you're not a fan of Radiohead.
(laughing)
- But what do you think about those hard school lads?
Oh man.
- It's kind of like there's nobody quite right to send it to
other than the Crisis crew and a few of my kooky friends
because if somebody is a hardcore Radiohead fan
will just be like, it's not funny.
(laughing)
How dare you?
That's a problem with like a certain type of meme
and probably why our culture is doomed
is that there's certain memes that you find so funny
and yet as opposed to other more traditional forms of humor
it's like very difficult to share.
I don't know if you guys ever have this
that you're hanging out and you just kind of laugh to yourself
and somebody says, what's so funny?
And you know, I picture like if that happened in the 70s
you'd probably just be like, all right,
well I was just thinking about last night
me and Bradley were out at the bar.
You would like have a story where it's not that funny
and I'm just like, all right, what's so funny?
It's literally, it happens to me all the time.
I'm just like sitting like in the kitchen
just like laughing, like kind of laughing to myself
and she's like, what's so funny?
And I'm literally like--
- It's gonna take 40 minutes to explain.
- Like, do you know the Radiohead album, The Bends?
- No.
- I think so.
Can you picture the cover?
No.
Okay, this is the cover.
Really take it in.
All right, hold on a second.
Let me find.
Okay, now look at this.
It says road (beep)
- The bend.
- Yeah, having to explain it.
You're like, ah.
You gotta explain the joke.
- Okay, back to the number three song, Jake's here.
Oh, look at that.
Oasis, Live Forever.
- Oh yeah.
This was their first hit, I think.
- Yeah, I think this is the first Oasis song
that I had heard.
- Released in August of '94.
Wow, so this really had legs.
♪ Maybe ♪
♪ I don't really wanna know ♪
♪ How you got engrossed ♪
♪ 'Cause I just wanna fly ♪
- '95, Mopping the Floor, 2002.
But in a funny way, I feel more connected to this music,
the '95 music, than 2002.
♪ To the bone ♪
♪ Maybe I just wanna fly ♪
♪ Wanna live, I don't wanna die ♪
♪ Maybe I just wanna breathe ♪
♪ Maybe I just don't believe ♪
♪ Maybe all the same as me ♪
- Now, Live Forever was written by Noel in 1991.
♪ I'm gonna live forever ♪
- As he was working for a roadie for the Inspiral Carpets.
- Oh yeah, Inspiral Carpets.
- Oh, Inspiral Carpets, all right.
- Manchester band.
♪ I don't really wanna know ♪
♪ How you got engrossed ♪
♪ 'Cause I just wanna fly ♪
- It's always interesting to me when bands have songs,
I mean, this was their first record.
- Right.
- That they were pulling from songs that went back years.
- Well, that's like what people always say,
you have your whole life to make your first album.
- Yeah.
- One year to make your second.
- Right.
- Although they knocked it out of the park with their second.
Far and away their biggest record.
- I wonder how many of those songs in the second record
were already written before the first record.
- Right.
♪ I wanna say ♪
♪ You and I are gonna live forever ♪
(audience cheering)
- I like Oasis more now than I did then.
- Hmm.
- I didn't like them then.
I didn't like it was so referential to classic rock.
- Right.
- To the point where I was just like,
well, these guys are just goofy.
- Yeah, and you're a bit older.
- I liked Champagne Supernova and Wonderwall.
- Mm-hmm.
- I was like, they were just so ubiquitous.
- Yeah.
- But I truly loved Don't Look Back in Anger.
- Yeah.
- I could see being like seven years older,
'cause you had been like in college by then,
but did you like Don't Look Back in Anger?
- I did, 'cause that song is so unimpeachable, right?
- Yeah.
- I mean, I remember hearing that,
and it was just on the radio.
- Yeah.
- And I was listening to the alternative rock station.
- Yeah.
- But I didn't know who it was,
and it's also Noel singing it.
- Oh, right.
- So it doesn't have that characteristic Liam kind of sneer.
- Less aggressive.
- And I was like, are they playing like a weird
George Harrison song that I've never heard before?
Like, I had this weird like moment of dislocation.
- But this is so referential too.
- I know.
- I mean, as Noel famously said.
- Imagine.
- How come when I do it, it's a rip off,
when Radiohead does it, it's pastiche?
(laughing)
- It's an homage.
- Oh yeah, maybe he said, yeah.
He said, when I do it, it's a rip off,
when Radiohead does it, it's an homage.
- I remember getting hip to that when I was like
getting serious about art,
and I'd like go to exhibitions
and like read the press releases.
And I'd be looking at someone's work
that was like completely derivative
of someone very specific.
- But they would frame it as homage.
- And I'd be like, oh, they're looking to this artist
from the 70s, or they're doing an homage
to this artist from the 70s.
I'd be like, okay, I see how this,
they're cooking the books here.
- Yeah.
♪ I stand up beside the fireplace ♪
♪ Take that look from off your face ♪
♪ You ain't ever gonna burn my heart out ♪
♪
♪
♪ So, Sally, come wait ♪
- I think the interview that I'm referencing,
he did in like '99, 2000.
So he's thinking about this song
being called a John Lennon rip off,
and then Karma Police from two years later,
which very explicitly references Sexy Sadie.
- Oh, right.
- Being homage.
Oh yeah, that's totally Sexy Sadie.
♪ Gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang ♪
- Okay, I mean, the feeling of Karma Police
is so different though.
This is the feeling of like,
Let It Be era Beatles.
Like I was saying, that experience of hearing it
for the first time, not knowing what it was.
And I was literally like, what, is this like an outtake?
- Yeah.
- But a great song.
♪ Please don't put your life in their hands ♪
♪ I'll rock and roll back ♪
♪ Throw it all away ♪
♪ I'm gonna start a revolution from my back ♪
- You hear those hand claps when he clearly read those.
♪ I'm gonna start a revolution from my back ♪
♪ Step outside 'cause summertime's in bloom ♪
♪ Stand up beside the fireplace ♪
♪ Take that look from off your face ♪
♪ 'Cause you ain't ever gonna burn my heart out ♪
♪ So Sally can wait ♪
- This is an interesting bit.
It's like they just, they have this just like,
coolness and confidence that just like,
sells the music.
♪ My soul slides away ♪
- My soul slides away.
And somebody else sing that would be unacceptable.
- Yeah, if this was like a bashful kind of shoegazy band.
- Yeah.
- I mean, they're kind of ahead of the curve.
- Yeah.
- The 90s is owning it and just being like, yeah,
classic rock.
That's where it's at.
- Right.
- We're at the end already.
It's the end of the 20th century.
- Right.
- We're already starting to eat our own tail.
- Yeah.
- And we're just gonna own it.
- Yeah.
And truly, I think you could make the case.
- Sick, Phil.
- Classic Phil.
You could make the case too that,
when you're doing kind of a throwback thing
that almost sounds like it could be a George Harrison song,
to do it well enough that it really connects
and people love it.
- Mm-hmm.
- Is maybe as hard, if not harder,
than creating something fresh and new and innovative.
I would like really rank--
- That's an interesting argument.
- I really rank them similarly.
- Yeah.
- Because so many people try to do this
and fail miserably.
- Oh, there's some, yeah, forgettable,
kind of Beatle-esque power pop bands.
- Yeah, I would say the B-minus version of this
is hated on, nobody, disrespected.
The B-minus version of Radiohead
might still get some good reviews.
You know what I mean?
This, you have to get the bullseye.
- Yeah, this is a real tightrope walk.
- Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And then, of course, Radiohead hits the bullseye
of what they're doing as well.
So it's not even about Oasis versus Radiohead necessarily.
Such a specific feeling.
- Great album cover.
- And not surprising that they--
- Yeah, great album cover.
- Not surprising that they couldn't sustain it
for that long.
- Yeah, they just nailed it so hard.
- Yeah, two albums.
They're almost like G and R or something.
- Kind of.
- '90s G and R, like absolute, like,
egomaniac, like, reckless dudes, huge egos.
- So much confidence.
Referencing the '70s and '60s music they loved.
And then just out.
- Yeah, but I mean, we did that whole long one,
I think during the pandemic,
talking about Noel Gallagher interviews
and obviously recently we were talking about Liam.
But I do think there is something like,
I'm sure there's more to the story,
but I do, I've always,
my interpretation of Oasis will always be that like,
their performative overconfidence
actually underneath it is like a type of chillness
that at least with the old Noel interviews,
there's always this like talking all this (beep)
and then there's like a little bit of like,
yeah, but you know,
I'm just trying to keep things interesting.
Rock and roll, baby.
Come on, let's have some fun.
- Taking the (beep)
- Yeah, whereas like there are people who are like,
sometimes there's a bit of a paradox.
People who are like kind of more humble,
but also like actually like angrier and faker.
You know what I mean?
- Oh, those like fake beta.
- Yeah, yeah, right.
- Oh yeah, I know plenty of guys like that.
- Yeah.
- Art world.
- Oh, a lot of fake beta.
- Just like, yeah, you're just sort of like,
there's like seething rage underneath,
but your, our presentation is sort of like
sensitive like art bro.
- Right.
- Yeah, I think.
- It's a fun hang.
(laughing)
- Definitely.
I know the type.
And I think there's like a bit of a horseshoe theory too,
where sometimes like,
there is a place where actually the truly the most humble,
like actually zenned out person
and the most like arrogant,
but with like a sly smile person are kind of similar.
- Yeah.
- Cause they're both taking the (beep)
they're both honking
cause they're in on the cosmic joke.
(laughing)
- You gotta watch out for those fake betas in the middle.
Number three song, my year, 2002, Puddle of Mud.
Wait, this is so crazy.
So well.
- This is just a great.
- This is interesting.
Jake's had so far all English,
Bush, Stone Roses, Oasis.
And I've had all American,
stained, hoobah stank, puddle of mud.
- Nice acoustic harmonics.
- Kind of interesting.
- Feeling that.
- I hate the drummers in these bands.
- Well, is it the drummers or the drum sound?
- I think the drumming too.
- They like quantize it, right?
So it's perfectly rhythmic, even though it's like.
- I think so.
- Yeah, I mean, they were getting pretty granular in this era.
- Yes, the drumming just strikes me as incredibly
like technical and like penal, no feel.
- I think they run it through a program.
- Mathematically correct, but zero vibes.
- I think a lot of these drummers probably came from
like really technical metal.
- Yeah.
- This song is about his desire
to be a good dad to his son.
- I wonder why it's called "Blurred".
- I want this to remind me of his first.
- It reminds me of the police or something in a weird way.
(laughing)
- I can totally hear that.
- Like the verse of "Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic".
- Yeah, yeah.
- Oh, jig number two, you got Pearl Jam "Better Man".
- Not my favorite PJ song, but I'll take it.
- This is how "Better Man" starts?
- Wow, Eddie Vedder wrote "Better Man" while in high school.
- Right, I knew that.
I think we talked about it on the show.
- Oh yeah.
- And he based it off of "Save It For Later", English beat.
- Oh, right, right.
- We did touch on that.
And again, a guy having a song.
- Right.
- Sitting around for 10 years.
- He says he recorded on a four track.
I wonder if he ever released the demo.
- I would love to hear those four track tapes from Vedder.
Another like 10, 15 years.
- Yeah.
♪ Opens the door ♪
♪ She rolls over ♪
♪ But just to sleep I see the turn over ♪
- Sometimes I think about how far I've come as a teenager,
sitting on the bed in San Diego writing "Better Man"
wondering if anyone would ever hear it.
♪ She dreams in colors she dreams in ♪
- I always liked hearing the song on alt rock radio
and back in the day, it just felt kind of like different.
I guess when you search "Better Man Demo",
a lot of Taylor Swift comes up
'cause she has a song called "Better Man".
Or maybe she covered this song, who knows?
- Brendan O'Brien, the producer said,
"One of the first rehearsals we did, they played it."
And I said, "Man, that song's a hit."
And Eddie just went, "Uh."
(Eddie laughs)
I immediately knew I just said the wrong thing.
We cut it once for verses.
He wanted to give it away to this Greenpeace benefit record.
The idea was that the band was gonna play
and some other singer was gonna sing it.
I remember saying to the engineer, Nick,
"This is one of their best songs
and they're just gonna give it away?
Can't happen."
Wow.
♪ She lies in bed ♪
♪ Says she's in love with him ♪
♪ Can't find a better man ♪
♪ She dreams in colors ♪
♪ She dreams in red ♪
- I just always like this song has a lightness about it.
- Yeah.
I mean, it makes sense he wrote this in high school.
It's so simple.
It has that feel.
♪ She dreams in colors ♪
♪ She dreams in red ♪
♪ Can't find a better man ♪
♪ Can't find a better man ♪
♪ She loves him ♪
♪ Yeah ♪
♪ She don't want to leave this way ♪
♪ She feeds him ♪
♪ Yeah ♪
♪ That's why she don't be by the air ♪
- Wow, the hits keep coming in 2002.
- Man, Ezra.
- Yeah.
- P.O.D.
- Youth of a Nation?
- Youth of a Nation.
- Okay. - I love that song.
- You know what, this song's actually pretty good.
I like P.O.D.
- Yeah.
- All right, number two, 2002 P.O.D.
(crowd cheering)
This is probably the best song so far.
P.O.D. at heart.
- Do they have any other big songs beyond this?
- Uh, didn't they have one that went tick, tick, boom?
Oh, Dark.
This was inspired by mass shootings
at Santana High School in Columbine.
- Evergreen, Sucker, Metter, terrible.
I don't think I know this song.
- It's kind of a Linkin Park, very Linkin Park.
- Very Linkin Park.
- Very alien-ish.
- You guys remember Alien Ant Farm's Smooth Criminal?
- Oh yeah, oh yeah.
- That was great. - Massive.
- That was a jam.
This is not my favorite P.O.D. song.
- Do you know that Skid Row song, Youth Gone Wild?
- Oh yeah. - No, I don't know.
- We are the youth gone wild.
- One of my first concerts I ever went to alone
was the GNR Skid Row at the Cap Center in DC.
- What year?
(snorts)
- I loved it.
- Well, not alone, alone.
You know, without parents.
- No parents. - Yeah, yeah.
- No.
- 10 years old going alone.
- Oh wait, they'll send a song called Alive.
- P.O.D.'s got a bit more life
than some of what we've heard so far.
♪ Every day is a new day ♪
♪ I'm thankful for every breath I take ♪
- Is this not before Linkin Park?
♪ I won't take it for granted ♪
♪ Someone learn from my mistakes ♪
♪ It's beyond my control ♪
- 1991 was the GNR Skid Row tour.
- Oh wow.
- Should've been 12.
- You went with some friends?
- Just Adam Goldstein.
Dr. Alan Goldstein dropped us off.
- Wow.
- So that's--
- This is you guys, 12.
- Oh yeah.
- First time.
- That's a good one too.
- With my son.
- At 12?
- Maybe.
- With a buddy?
- Maybe.
- ♪ This is so alive ♪
- Times are different.
- Yeah.
- Linkin Park's first album, 2000.
- Okay.
- Hybrid Theory with In The End.
- Well, we all knew that 1995
was gonna be a bit stronger than 2002,
at least based on the sensibility of the TCU.
Jake coming in with a Stone Cold classic at number one,
Green Day, When I Come Around.
Probably one of my favorite Green Day songs.
- It's fun.
- The Green Day.
- I like it.
Songwriters, all three guys,
Billy Joe, Mike, Trey.
- Love to see it.
- Mike really brings it on this song.
- ♪ I heard you crying loud ♪
♪ All the way across town ♪
♪ To be searching for that someone ♪
♪ That is beyond all the ground ♪
- Mike and Trey came up the other day in conversation.
I dropped my guitar off at Uniform Music.
- Oh.
- Nice little shop in Eagle Rock run by Eric
who works on some of Ezra's stuff.
But I have this '70s Gibson guitar.
And this guy Eric, he knows every model of every instrument.
- Yeah, yeah, right, deep.
- He's epic.
And then he was like,
actually in the mid-'70s, Gibson was making great bass.
Actually, Mike Dyrnt, Green Day,
plays mid-'70s Gibson bass.
- Oh, really?
- I was like, dude.
- Do you play it on "When I Come Around"?
- Probably.
- ♪ When I come around ♪
[playing "When I Come Around"]
♪ ♪
♪ I heard it all before ♪
♪ Saw donuts at my door ♪
- What's he saying?
- ♪ I bought a new set of ears ♪
- Sold donuts at my door?
- ♪ I'm so excited ♪
- Oh, he said, "Don't knock down my door."
- ♪ I'm so excited ♪
♪ Slide me down, bang down ♪
- ♪ Sold donuts at my door ♪
- ♪ Door to door donuts ♪
- ♪ So don't do what you like ♪
♪ Make sure you do it right ♪
♪ You may find out that your cell top ♪
♪ Needs nothing but time to live ♪
♪ You can't go forcing something ♪
♪ If it's just not right ♪
♪ No time to search the world around ♪
♪ 'Cause you know where I'll be found ♪
♪ When I come around ♪
[playing "When I Come Around"]
♪ ♪
♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
♪ No time to catch the wind blowing around ♪
♪ Cause you knew it all before ♪
♪ But will I come around? ♪
♪ Will I come around? ♪
♪ Will I come around? ♪
♪ Will I come around? ♪
Great song from a beautiful album.
Okay, well.
TC Cannon.
The number one song the week I turned 18 in 2002.
Well this one I could say I share a bit more of a sensibility with.
Yeah.
Than the rest.
Jimmy Eat World, the middle.
I always like the solo on the song.
And weirdly I think there's a connection.
I think Ariel Rekshide, part of the Vampire Weekend family.
I'm pretty sure I was at his house and he had like a platinum
plaque for this album.
And I was like, "Wait, what'd you do on that album?"
Let me look.
In 2001?
You gotta remember, Ariel had his band The Hippos,
the pop punk band in the late 90s.
So he would have probably, and this was Jimmy Eat World's
fourth album, so probably they would have been crossing paths.
Ariel did additional vocals on track seven,
which is If You Don't, Don't.
Background vocalist.
Wow.
Jimmy Eat World, the middle.
♪
Huge song.
♪
♪ Hey, don't write yourself off yet ♪
♪ It's only in your head you feel that power ♪
What did you think of the song when it came out, Jake?
I liked it.
I still like it.
I mean, it's corny as hell, but I dig it.
I mean, you know me, I like pop.
Right.
I bet Matt loves it.
Yeah.
This is a good song.
Yeah.
♪ It just takes some time ♪
Yeah, this is a great song.
It's also the only one on the, it's really the only one from
this top five that breaks.
Yeah.
Sound at all.
I mean, everything else is...
You need a four all in that very specific genre.
Like, so dialed in.
♪ I know you're doing better on your own ♪
♪ So don't buy in ♪
♪ Live right now ♪
♪ And just be yourself ♪
♪ It doesn't matter if it's good enough ♪
♪ For someone else ♪
♪ It just takes some time ♪
♪ Little girl in a little hot blue dress ♪
I never knew what he was saying there.
He's saying, "Little girl, you're in the middle of the ride."
"Little girl, you're in the middle of the ride."
I thought he said, "Little bit of in the middle."
Oh, so this whole song is addressed to a little girl.
♪ It'll be just like everything ♪
♪ Everything will be all right, all right ♪
♪ Yeah ♪
♪ ♪
♪ Hey, don't write yourself off that ♪
I think Owl City was probably inspired by that part.
♪ Put down your ♪
♪ Just do your best ♪
♪ Do everything you can ♪
I feel like Jimmy World has a lot of good songs.
This is like their-- this is their one--
like, heads who are, like, into that kind of music
are always, like, Jimmy World rules.
This is far and away their biggest crossover hit.
But wait, what's this?
This was on the same album?
♪ If you're the same as ♪
♪ Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh ♪
♪ Sing it back ♪
♪ Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh ♪
Yeah, they're really good songwriters.
♪ Strut for the heaven on my knees ♪
Are they from SoCal? Where are they from?
- Arizona. - Arizona?
- Oh, from Arizona. - Interesting. Arizona pop punk.
- Like Phoenix? - Arizona pop punk tradition.
You know, Nate Roos, the singer from Fun,
he started using an Arizona pop punk band,
started out, probably knew these guys.
♪ And I'm so full of meaning ♪
♪ Are you listening? ♪
♪ Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh ♪
♪ Sing it back ♪
♪ Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh ♪
♪ So tell me what do I need? ♪
♪ Tell me what do I need? ♪
♪ Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh ♪
♪ What, what is the meaning? ♪
♪ What, what is the meaning? ♪
♪ Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh ♪
♪ I was spinning free ♪
♪ Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh ♪
♪ With a little sweet and sour feeling ♪
Well, at least we ended on a high note.
- Definitely. - Or at least a middle note.
No, a high note. I'm just saying that
'cause the song's called "The Middle."
Anyway...
- I followed you. - All right, thank you.
- I got it. - Just wanna make sure
there's not some diehard Jimmy World fans...
- Feeling slighted? - Yeah.
No, that's a great song.
As predicted, '95, a bit stronger than 2002,
but maybe in a few years, we'll listen back to these things,
and 2002 will start to sound better and better.
It's missing seven years of seasoning.
I think my opinion of that era of music has calcified.
- It's not gonna change. - Like it's carved into stone.
Well, maybe when your daughter's a bit older
and she's just like, "Dad, I can't believe you missed out, man."
- I mean, it has been... - You thought you were listening to...
- It's been 20 years. - It's 20 years old.
- It's had... - So it's due for a comeback.
I was gonna say, it's sort of has had its time to sort of age.
Yeah, it's kind of percolated at this point.
- I think so. - I like the idea of Lizzie being like,
"Wait a second. P.O.D. was touring
when you were, like, fresh out of college and you missed them?"
(laughing)
"Are you telling me..." She's like bringing up...
"Who was playing in Portland, Oregon?"
(laughing)
- And you didn't go. - In November of 2002, and you missed it.
"What were you doing then, Dad? Delivering pizza for Papa John's?"
Maybe seeing "Bilt-a-Spill" or something.
- Oh, my God. - Who?
The Korean boy band?
(laughing)
♪ Are you listening? ♪
♪ Oh ♪
Yeah, that was a weird time.
Anyway, that was fun.
We should keep digging into, like, various points in our lives.
How about the Modern Rock charts? We were each 30.
- Interesting. 07. - Wait, are you 07?
- Ooh. - Not that different.
For me, 15. I guess things were starting to change then.
All right. Another semi-banked TC.
We'll see you guys real soon.
Thanks for listening. Peace.
"Time Crisis" with Ezra Koenig.
Hey Nig!
(video game music)
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