Episode 179: Tangled Up in Brews
Links
Transcript
Transcript
Time Crisis, back again. It's the dog days of summer, and we're here to talk about
something very special. People often say that three is a mystical number, some
people even say it's a magical number. Well how about Bob Dylan's greatest hits
volume 3. We'll dig into that and so much more on today's Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
Time Crisis back again. Dog days of summer. Yeah this might be a banked
episode. How banked is it? I don't know. Anywhere between one to five weeks.
Nothing crazy. It's not like some unearthed years old. It's a summer of
2022 episode. Feel great about it. Yeah. Back in person. And we're back in person.
That's why we bank these Epps. We're not always in the same place when we are. Get
together, do a tight banking session. Feels good. Got the whole crew. Sunday
morning. That's right. It is a Sunday morning. Got Nick and Seinfeld. How you
guys doing? Hey what's up? Good. Seinfeld was lost in thought. No, no I'm good. I'm
good. I'm glad to see you guys again in person. He's just sitting here wearing a
large print Kramer shirt. It's an all over print Kramer shirt. I'm just trying to
stay on brand for you guys. That's a great shirt. Thank you. When you're
rolling out with wearing like the giant Kramer shirt, what type of comments are
you getting? Mostly Seinfeld fans or does anybody people still want to bring up
the the Laugh Factory thing? Or is it we just live in a modern isolated world
where even a sick all over print Kramer shirt is not eliciting comments from
strangers? Yeah I think you know I've worn this in the past. I've gotten a
couple of like nice shirt like standard stock compliments but I mean today I
went right from the house right here so I mean this would be the first
compliment of the day on the shirt. Should we make the round? Did your wife or son say
anything about it? My wife was like she's like oh you're wearing the Kramer shirt
like that was just a neutral like acknowledgement. And your son said daddy daddy you're
wearing my favorite shirt again. She's like who's that racist on your shirt?
No but you know. He apologized son. The day is young. Okay Nick you're wearing some kind of
weird shirt too. What's this? Dewey Crumpler X Cushion Works. Yes. Some weird
art thing. Do you know who this is Jake? So Cushion Works is coming he's come up
on the show a couple times. My friend Jordan Stein, mutual friend, childhood
friend, runs a gallery a small gallery in San Francisco. Yep. And Dewey Crumpler is
an artist that was featured in his gallery and he did he's sort of a does a
lot of weird kind of New Age space stuff. Is there any way Dewey Crumpler is his
real name? I'm like 50/50 on it. I think it's a hundred percent. His real name? I'm
certain about it. It's a great name. Those are both real. Dewey I've heard of it. I've
heard there's Dewey Cox well he's a fictional character. Decimal System. Dewey
Decimal and Crumpler I do that is a real last name you put them together it does
sound a little bit like a nom de plume. I don't want to show my ignorance but
Dewey Decimal? Is this his last name Decimal? No no because there's decimals in the system.
Yeah yeah. No it's just books. No his name is Dewey Decimal and he said let's
organize these books by alphabetically. I understand. He was the first librarian to
organize books alphabetically. No yeah what's his name? Let's get a number crunch on that. His
name is probably John Dewey Augustus Dewey. Not a first name. Sam Dewey. Published by
Melville Dewey. Melville Dewey. Wow that's a very that sounds like Dewey Crumpler.
It's very academic sounding. But who else do you know whose first name is Dewey? Is that a
nickname for like? Dewey Cox. Yeah no but yeah a fictional a real person named Dewey.
I had a great uncle named Dewey. Wow. I didn't know him very well but it was a
nickname I'm pretty sure. Maybe his name was like Donald or something.
Deward. It's a male name of Welsh origin that means beloved. Alright Dewey Crumpler.
So Dewey Crumpler this is a great name. Yeah it's a great name and he's a great artist and it's a
great gallery. Cushion Works. Cushion Works is a gallery. Everybody's wearing t-shirts today.
And well yeah. I don't think I ever wore this before. I saw it I pulled it out of my closet
said free your mind on it and my first thought was oh that's some Diplo thing. I've got a lot
of good things from the Diplo promotional world over the years. I remember once there was some
sort of like Adidas collab and it came in this like amazing box which included a record player.
It was like a cheap record player built into a cardboard case and then I know at some point I
had a bottle of Diplo branded tequila that we worked through slowly over a year. Anyway so I
pulled this out I thought it was a Diplo thing and I looked on the back and I was incorrect.
It's Throwing Fits. It's a pod? It's a pod yeah. It's a fashion pod which I went on a few years
ago. Great pod primarily about fashion. But so this is some kind of Throwing Fits thing. And
Jake's shirt is a great lead-in to this episode. It's official Jokerman podcast. I'm also wearing
a podcast t-shirt. Oh yeah. Official Jokerman podcast merch. It's a great shirt. It has
starting with self-portrait I guess it lists all of Bob Dylan's 70s albums and has the kind
of the logo of each album. So it's got like the the Planet Waves handwritten scrawl blood on the
tracks with the lines the basement tapes that kind of a diagonal writing and then at the bottom it
says Jokerman in Jokerman font. Shout out to Jokerman pod. Great pod. It is a great pod. I
got on there twice. I got into it recently and actually listened to your episode with Dave. Oh
fun. Which I really enjoyed after seeing Bob Dylan at the Pantages. I've been on this big Bob Dylan
thing and finally started listening to Jokerman because I've been hearing about it and I vaguely
remember maybe something about them and I finally listened. It's a great pod. Just in time for them
to move on to Velvet Underground. But the material is still there and the content is still there.
There's two years of Bob Dylan pods. Yep. And also I was on the the Wikipedia page for the
song Jokerman as I often am. I don't know if I've said this before I saw it and I forgot it but I
was very proud as you should also be Jake especially you to be you know reading like yeah
Jokerman you kind of like yeah is there any interesting anecdotes about when it was written
or analysis on the Wikipedia page and then on the bottom there's a part on Wikipedia where it talks
about in popular culture and like who's covered it and then somewhere it says the Jokerman font
is named after the song and I was curious I was like well I think we broke this story so I'm
curious what the citation is going to be. Right. And I looked and it was Time Crisis.
That rules. Because we interviewed the creator of the Jokerman font we confirmed it. That's
probably our greatest scoop ever here. That's real original journalism. Yeah. You had a hunch
you tracked it down you confirmed. I feel like maybe it was your hunch well either way it was
a team effort. Team effort. And I think about stuff like that because that's exactly the stuff
that I as a music fan want to know. And I think about at random times we've done interviews it
doesn't always pan out but you know when you're like talking like Huey Lewis or something be like
man you ever listen to the dead. You just never know when somebody is going to say something which
one day somebody is interested in Huey Lewis because this is exactly the type of stuff that we
wonder off the mic. A hundred percent. Yeah. Even if we didn't do this show it would be the exact
same. We're the type of people who are sitting around listening to music one day and just
thinking I wonder what Lou Reed had to say about the Grateful Dead. Luckily there there's quite a
bit. Ample information. Or just like thinking about like did Jerry ever I don't know you know
listen to Pink Floyd. Yes. The answer is yes. Or you know. What did Jerry think of Van Halen. Yes.
Those kind of things. Exactly. Worlds that you don't know that you know people that were
contemporaries of each other but acts that you didn't associate in your like that no one associates
in their minds. And probably nine times out of 10 the answer is going to be something along lines of
either not for me or oh yeah that's cool. You know which maybe is not going to be that interesting.
Even if we got like Bob Weir back on the show and said Bob we forgot to ask you last time. What were
you thinking when you first heard Van Halen. He might just be like I thought it was pretty cool
pretty far out not exactly my scene but you know good stuff. It might be that but you never know
if there might be something. Incredible technique. Yeah there might be some really interesting. And
in some ways sometimes all you want to know is that. And of course people's opinions change. So
you might find some quote from back in the day of like like I said there's something about Lou Reed
saying that Frank Zappa was like the biggest loser he'd ever met in his life. And apparently
like later in life he was like no he's cool great musician. You know people. It'd be great to get a
quote from Lou Reed like if there is a quote on Metallica circa 1985. Oh yeah. If he was in or not.
Absolute dog s***. Terrible tone terrible distortion tone. I'd hate to be in the same room as these guys.
Indipassantly
fumbling away I am your source of self-destruction
Pains that pump with fear sucking dark is clear
Kneading on your death's construction
Taste me you will see for it's all you need dedicated to how I'm killing you
Come crawling faster obey your master
Your life burns faster obey your master
I always think about that too back to Bob Dylan because I remember reading an interview with
somebody probably Cameron Crowe somebody who was like writing for Rolling Stone in the 70s
and whoever the journalist was talked about profiling Bob in I guess probably you know
77 76 whatever and they talked about going to visit him at a hotel room and he just gone down
to the record shop just to like you know see what was up and he had this huge spread of records on
the bed one of which was the debut album from the Sex Pistols Nevermind the Books and I remember the
interviewer recounting this later saying I was so nervous and I felt like I had to ask him about his
his tour and his new album and it always kills me that I didn't specifically say what do you think
of that one Bob you listen to it yeah now we may never know Bob's a mysterious figure you know if
he wants to talk about it he will but I don't know if he's ever had any commentary on punk rock
really never all right Seinfeld start digging has Bob Dylan ever talked about because he famously
likes to drop these little breadcrumbs that shows that he's he knows what's going on like he had a
very like a late era song where he talks about Alicia Keys in the lyrics oh wow interesting oh
yeah I remember that but there's also a video I've seen a few times on Instagram maybe like
John Wurster will post it every now and then which it's Bob Dylan on the street in like the early
80s and the kids are talking about the bands they're into uh-huh and he's like you into rat
his kids no no it's just like random children okay we're just like playing in the neighborhood
and Bob asked them that or they asked Bob they he asked he says you into rat yeah are you into rat
oh yeah they're all right try to find that whoa yeah and it's sort of like oh whoa he's like
following like early mid 80s like heavy metal right I mean and I guess why wouldn't he but
yeah you'd like to imagine Bob's like in his early 40s you know it's probably a very confusing time
for him it makes sense him following music in the 80s but at some point I bet he fully tapped out
although Alicia Keys right so that was like late 90s or early 2000s I mean it's like has Bob heard
the strokes I want to say yes he's heard of them has Bob heard Vampire um maybe checked out our
cover of Joker Man I seem to remember we needed his permission once you don't need permission to
just cover a song in a concert I think it's because we did a version of it on Jimmy Kimmel
so we needed permission so at some point it went to his manager I read a funny story about Bob
that he was talking to like Axl Rose or some member of Guns N' Roses because they famously
covered Knocking on Heaven's Door on Use Your Illusion but before that they would bust it out
in concert sometimes so if you were ahead you knew that Guns N' Roses liked that Bob Dylan song and
would cover it sometimes and I guess before they actually laid it to tape Bob had run into them
somewhere maybe Axl and as Axl recounted it Bob said hey when are you gonna record your cover of
Knocking on Heaven's Door and apparently said something like oh like you want us to and he said
I just want the money and they're like uh all right you got it you could totally see him
kind of like maybe half meaning it but also enjoying like with a young artist or maybe like
hazing them just like young fellas you get that cover to tape make a little money for your OG
oh my god should we listen to that to the Guns GNR GNR version yeah sure I haven't heard this GNR
version in a long time so this is from Use Your Illusion 2
Bob got the CD listen to the first like 30 seconds just to make sure he's like all right
watch the money rolling
well it ended up being a kind of a big single for them I think
yeah this is like one of their biggest songs in a way
I like Axl's interpretation of the beginning
he's just like doubling himself up an octave
I can't use it anymore
feels like knocking on heaven's door
knock knock knocking on heaven's door
knock knock knocking on heaven's door
the way he says door is insane
knock knock knocking on heaven's door
knock knock knocking on heaven's door
oh
slash taking over
sick tone
yes then you wonder like is Bob pretty familiar with Appetite for Destruction
he's definitely heard like Sweet Child of Mine and Fall into the Jungle just ambiently yeah
he ever deliberately throw the album on he's like oh yeah that kind of like
B section of It's So Easy nice
that cold black cloud is coming down
feels like I'm knocking on heaven's door
door
it's definitely one of the most over the top Axl vocal performances
knock knock knocking on heaven's door
knock knock knocking on heaven's door
do you think this is like a f*** what it takes all kind of comp together
yeah I hear his voice coming yeah he's singing all over the place
all over the place
I can't tell if this is just hearsay or not but
on Quora to the question what did Bob Dylan think of Guns N' Roses version of knocking on heaven's door
someone Doug Goldstein former personal manager at Guns N' Roses
that's his byline says I used to get a call once a year from Bob Dylan's lady asking me to thank him for
thank the band for recording Heaven's Door because they would receive massive checks from the sales of our version
so like the money rolling in and then here's another good one
hold on I just gotta see what's
wait he got a call in the middle of the song
what was that?
something about a mortician?
some 90s like comedian vibe talking about libido
Dennis Leary
yeah maybe that was Dennis Leary
so Axl Rose said this about meeting Bob Dylan again I don't
quote Bob asked me when you were gonna
this can't be real Bob asked me when you're gonna record Heaven's Door and I said I don't know but we really love the song
and he said I don't give a f*** I just want the money
oh it's even crazier than I remembered I don't give a f*** I just want the money
I mean I bet this version of this song was a bigger hit than any song that Bob Dylan ever released
yeah just in terms of like pure numbers
he never had like huge smash hits as far as I know
my impression of his career was very album oriented
yeah I mean he's got his
I mean wouldn't Blown in the Wind be
well you know Blown in the Wind was like covered many times
yeah I'm just saying his versions of his songs
right like even Like a Rolling Stone
probably more people have heard GnR knocking on Heaven's Door than have heard Blown in the Wind or Like a Rolling Stone
I do remember reading I think when I was prepping for one of my two Joker metaphors
I went on and did a Planet Waves episode
I remember being very surprised to read that Planet Waves was his first number one album
1974
it's the first album of his that ever just like started number one
yeah it might just be like luck of the draw
because I'm sure it's you know I'm sure his other albums must have been debuting at number two or three
here we go we got a little information here
Bob Dylan on the Billboard charts number one knocking on Heaven's Door 1973
peaked at number 12
16 weeks on the chart
number two Lay Lady Lay 1969 number 7
Like a Rolling Stone 1965 number 2
okay that's pretty
I didn't realize that Like a Rolling Stone was actually a huge hit at the time
I think that was like a big moment
but also back then I think feel like things would just like fall off the charts so quick
Gotta Serve Somebody number 24 1979
that's cool
where's the JFK ballad?
Murder Most Foul that was probably number one on the adult contemporary charts
probably not Billboard maybe streaming
because it did it do big numbers on streaming?
no
oh I thought it was good
I just think Bob Dylan's audience is so many people probably still buying CDs
or not using streaming to yeah to take it down but
Bob Dylan has only number one only one number one song on any Billboard singles chart
and it's on the rock digital songs sales chart that's a mouthful
and it's a Murder Most Foul
that was number one on the rock digital sales chart
according to Nielsen sold 10,000 downloads between its release and April 2nd
oh
respectable
interesting
I wonder how Vampire's done on the rock digital sales chart
go get a number crunch
what's the best we ever did on the rock digital sales chart
so that's like older heads buying the song for $1.29
yep
I did not buy it I streamed it
it's the most important chart
rock digital sales chart
we're number one at RDS
what's that what's that stand for
we just leveled up number one at RDS
and it's probably a chart that won't exist that much longer
I'm sad to say because we're clearly in the streaming era
and eventually all we'll have left is vinyl collectors and streamers
and the good men and women who've been holding down the RDS chart all these years
alright
will just vanish like sand in the wind
okay Vampire Weekend
I don't even know how to read this properly
it looks like you've had six songs that have hit the rock digital song sales chart
six songs on the RDS
Holiday, Five Weeks, Diane Young Five Weeks, Horchata, Two, Unbeliever's Harmony, Harm Me All, Giving Up The Gun
all spent one week
so Holiday, I wouldn't have guessed Holiday did five weeks on the RDS
yeah the Harmony Hall was the highest peaking song at number ten
top ten
top ten at RDS
hey it might not be Bob Dylan but we weren't top ten at RDS
so what did that sell like 800 copies
they're probably not going to give you the actual stats on the billboard website
yeah this is very top line
I think you're probably right
you probably had to sell like 800 digital songs to make it on
I mean I get these charts every now and then
and the digital sales are low but
I still am always like
maybe because the numbers are so low
they're almost more meaningful
I feel like once in a blue moon I'll get some sales chart that'll be like
yeah like for instance like Harmony Hall last week
and just be like
35 people bought it
bought the song Harmony Hall last week
and then you're like really thinking about it
in a way this might sound like coke but it's true
in a way if they're just like 100,000 people bought it
you know you're like the weekend you just be like
just another day in LA
but for me I'm like when you're just like
35 people bought like Harmony Hall
and these numbers maybe it's even lower than that I don't know
for digital sales
because obviously the vast majority of the quote-unquote sales comes from streaming
and you see these numbers like 35 people bought it
a song like that digital last week
three years after the album came out
I mean I've probably said this before
even back in the day even before streaming
when you get these sales charts
and I always have gotten them sporadically
which maybe is for the best to not obsess like every single week
but it's always interesting when you get a sales chart
and the old ones used to say regionally
that was sick
oh that's tight
because like when we were on XL or something
you know it'd say it'd be like Modern Vampires
there's like 2013
and you know the album just came out
they're talking about how that album's doing
then they'll say like
and by the way here's like the other two
and then you just get like the first album
and it would sometimes literally just be like
did 70 in St. Louis last week
and then you really you start thinking about it
don't quote me on these numbers by the way
but then you really think about it
because you're like wow five years after this record came out
like 70 people this week in St. Louis decided to buy it
it's interesting
that's a real bump
I know I'm not quoting you on the numbers
but I mean
I'm thinking about you getting these numbers every week
and Rashida just being like
hey can you come to bed
and you're just in your office just pouring over
I'm just looking at like
70 in Minnesota
I gotta enter the data into the Excel spreadsheet
no I'm just like we're
I might be reading this incorrectly
but I think we only did 12 in St. Louis last week on Contra
we gotta stop buying organic produce
babe
it'd be nice if you got a notification on your phone
every time somebody bought a digital copy
that'd be chill
yeah just like a text message
that would drive somebody insane
I mean that's why social media drives people insane
because it is kind of the equivalent of getting a notification
every time you sell a record
We took a vow in summertime
Now we find ourselves in late December
I believe that New Year's Eve
would be the perfect time for their great surrender
But they don't remember
Anger wants a voice
Voices won't sing
Singers harmonize
Till they can't hear anything
They thought that I was free
From all that questioning
But every time a problem is
Another one begins
And the stonewalls are vomiting all their witness
Anybody with a willing mind
Can never forgive the sight
Of wicked snakes inside a place
You thought was dignified
I don't wanna live like this
But I don't wanna die
Ooh
Ooh
I don't wanna live like this
But I don't wanna die
It's so funny that the charts include both of these things
because streaming is so passive
even if you're like barely doing numbers
you could easily just get thousands and thousands of streams a week
They divide it by 1500
I don't know if people know that
that's kind of an interesting fact
The way that they calculate sales now is that
if somebody buys a record, that's one record
but you would need 1500 streams of songs
from the album to count for one sale
Like how much is an album now?
How much does it cost?
Yeah, if you bought the album
Well if you bought it on iTunes it'd be probably still $9.99
If you bought the vinyl, that could cost anything
from $20 to $40 to buy the CD
I don't know, $12?
But digital album, $10
that equals 1500 streams
Let's say you got people to
your album produced 15 million streams
which is like really a lot when you think about it
Yeah
That could be, you know
That could be 50, I don't know
Let's say your album produced 150 million streams
Right
Because that could mean like
millions of people listened multiple times
Sure
What's 150 million divided by 1500?
I guess we're just cutting off two zeros
So, 150,000?
Wait
150 million divided by 1500 is 100,000
100,000
That's just something to think about
It's pretty wild
That's an insane metric
It's saying that you'd have to listen to every song
on the album 150 times
That's pretty rare to listen to an album
all the way through 150 times
Well, I guess, and that's streams
Most people are not doing that
So, it's really more like listening to the album 15 times
No, because if the song is like, let's say
Well, I guess it depends how many songs are on the record
I'm talking about counting for an album
Right, so you'd have to listen to the album
Let's say for, just to keep it simple
People loving this on-air math
Let's say, to keep it simple
You made a 15-track album
Yeah, you'd have to listen to it 100 times
all the way through
That's a lot
Let's say that 1 million people
listen to a 15-track album 10 times
I feel good about this math
You got 1 million red-blooded Americans
to listen to your 15-track album 10 times each
Well, that's the equivalent of selling 100,000 records
which is like really good
There still is something about it where it's just
those numbers are just like so gargantuan
and you wouldn't even be
you're only a fifth of the way to a gold record
at that point
You're only a tenth of the way to platinum
So, even that, getting a million people
to listen 10 times to your 15-track record
If you want to be going platinum in this day and age
you got to make it a little more like 10 million
30 million people doing that
Well, I'm glad Bob could at least, you know
score some points on the rock digital sales chart
That's right
I mean
And also, he's a career artist, man
You know?
Does Bob have a dark side of the moon?
Of course not
But you add up his 39 studio albums
and his many, many live albums
You also see some stuff like
Dylan in the Dead
Not a well-regarded live record
But Dylan in the Dead
I believe it's 7 tracks
Pretty random assortment of songs
Like that one randomly went platinum in the late 80s
That's perfect
And then, you know, you go global
Yeah, of course, Bob's a gargantuan important artist
But even for Bob, those GNR checks
Huge
Substantial enough
Yeah, he doesn't have his accountant
calling Vampire Weekend and saying
"Thanks for covering Joker Man on Jimmy Kimmel"
Earlier in the show
You didn't move the needle
You'd asked about Bob Dylan's relationship to punk
This is interesting
When he was on Letterman for the first time in 1984
He performed Joker Man
With the plugs
Have we talked about this?
With Charlie Quintana from Social Distortion
and Tony Marcico from the plugs
Actually, that version is the theme song of the podcast
Joker Man
Yeah, he did kind of like a punk version of it
Yeah, so maybe he was at least aware of those guys
But you want to know, like, almost that step beyond
Where just like
Did Bob ever spend significant time
With London Calling by The Clash?
Yeah, Elvis Costello
Are you familiar with the Thunders song
"You Can't Put Your Arms Around a Memory"?
Oh, Johnny Thunders
Yeah, sure, sure
You're right
So apparently, according to an interview with
Sid Silvain from New York Dolls
Bob Dylan told Johnny
That he wished he'd written that song
Okay
Does that do anything for you guys?
Does a lot
No, that's significant
Bob Dylan was aware of the Johnny Thunders song
"You Can't Put Your Arms Around a Memory"
I believe that
And he wished he wrote it
Yeah
It's kind of third hand the way they've written it
Yeah, no, it's definitely not confirmed
Yeah, yeah, yeah
The most interesting part of that to me is that
Bob's like, "I never said that sh*t"
Is that we know how Jake feels about the New York Dolls
Yeah, Jake, not a fan
If that's the only song that Dylan wishes he wrote
In the genre of punk
I think that's interesting
That is interesting
I got a little pushback in my New York Dolls skepticism
Online or in the room?
Online
Which is fine, very mild
I think one guy was just like, "Get your act together, dude"
Jake's more of a Goo Goo Dolls guy
You're right
Well, no, it was in the context of the Rock Hall
Right, right
What did you say?
They don't deserve to be in the hall?
I mean, we were going through it
Like, I was on this kick of like, "Everyone should get in"
Yeah, yeah
You know
But then we got to New York Dolls and I was like
Okay, they're one of those bands that like
You see their name checked a lot
But I was sort of like, "What is...
Do they have the catalog? What is the catalog?"
Coming from a place of ignorance a little bit here
I haven't done my due diligence
I know they're a famous band
I know they're a band that has an important
Historic role in punk, pre-punk, proto-punk
Pre-punk
But, you know
I think we threw on the top New York Dolls
Yeah, you weren't feeling it
Somebody clapped back
You got clapped back on Twitter?
Somebody DM'd you?
Something
You don't f*** with the Dolls?
Gugu?
Burn in hell
So as people can tell, this is going to be a Bob Dylan episode
But, you know, hopefully we'll talk about some other stuff
But we're going to be getting into his greatest hits volume 3
Which is the perfect place to start
Yep
With Bob Dylan
But I wanted to say one other thing
Just thinking about Bob and his awareness of what's going on
Clearly he's like fairly aware
I just remembered this interview that was posted on his website
But it was with a journalist called Bill Flanagan
This was around the time when he was putting out his covers records
Whenever that was, 5, 6 years ago
And this guy
Triplicate?
Yeah, this is the triplicate era interview
So clearly Bob okayed the interview
And he just felt like, let's cut out the middleman
I'll host the interview myself on my website
Talk with a trusted journalist
That's that
So at one point this guy's asking him about something
That was called the New Basement Tapes
The New Basement Tapes I guess was
A group of musicians
Put together by T-Bone Burnett
Who finished songs based on old lyrics of Bob's
Does this sound like kind of a fun idea?
What would these songs sound like
If they'd actually ever been set to music or whatever?
So this guy asks him about it
And he says you know, so for the New Basement Tapes
T-Bone put together a group
With Elvis Costello, Rihanna Giddens, Jim James, Marcus Mumford
And Taylor Goldsmith
To finish songs based on old lyrics of yours
Did you hear any of those songs?
And say I don't remember writing that
And then Bob Dylan just goes
Did you say Taylor Swift?
And the guy goes
Taylor Goldsmith
And he goes yeah, okay
No I don't remember writing any of those songs
Anyway, but
That was like this interesting moment
And again, I'm sure Bob must have
Because it was hosted on his website
He clearly would have had some degree of control
And you can picture like an older guy like Bob
Also just famously savvy
Playful
I mean he's the Joker man
So if he wanted to, you can picture like
Another older musician who would have this moment
In an interview where somebody says Taylor Goldsmith
And they seem to perk up and go Taylor Swift?
And the guy goes no
You can see somebody saying like
Can you cut that part out where I asked about Taylor Swift?
At the very least just because he was wrong
You know you can see somebody like just cut that part out
Where I said, yeah I don't know what people are going to think of that
But he left it in
For people to know that he knows
I also just can't help thinking
Because of the G&R story
And I don't think any of this takes away from Bob's artistry
As one of the greatest songwriters of all time
But just think about him saying to Axl
I don't give a f*** I just want the money
Like maybe he does have this cold blooded business man side
Or maybe it's a mode he has to
Go into sometimes just to like
Not always be in the sensitive crazy artist
Phase
But there's also some part of me at first when I read that
I thought oh maybe he's like a Taylor Swift fan
Whereas now I kind of think more like
Bob read Billboard one day and was like
Taylor Swift tour grossed how much?
Wow
I gotta get out there more
What? How much is she worth?
And then like I can totally picture that being the last thing on his mind
And then he's doing this interview and the guy's like
So all these people covered your songs
And immediately he's thinking like
Alright that would be a nice little royalty I guess
And he's like listening to the list and he's like
Jim James and he's like
How much is that? Rihanna and Giddens
And he's like I don't know a couple thousand bucks
And he's like Taylor Swift and he's like what?
It's like
Did you say Taylor Swift?
And he's just like thinking like
He's gonna build a new pool
Or something and the guy's like Taylor Goldsmith
And he's just kinda like
Who's that?
And you can just like see his thought bubble
Like the new pool just vanishes
Who's Taylor Goldsmith?
Oh from Dawes okay yeah
Taylor Goldsmith from Dawes
To a new toaster
And I mean
I don't think that in any way contradicts
Bob's image like
Sometimes he's like you know channeling
The muse
And sometimes he's just a guy with like a massive
Catalog and a whole bunch
Of kids
A sprawling property to maintain in Malibu
A sprawling property in Tony Malibu
Got a lot of grandkids
Grandpa your pool sucks
Taylor Swift
It's not salt water it's not heated
He's just got like a kidney shaped
Pool from you know 1973
Oh hell yeah
But that's why he's also the coolest is that he just like left it in
He could have cut it out
He probably appreciated the humor of that moment
The same way that we do
Maybe he heard Taylor Goldsmith perfectly clear
And he just thought it would be a funny joke
Taylor Swift?
I mean that does seem like Bob Dylan type humor actually
You know the guy's like and Taylor Goldsmith
And Bob Dylan's like Taylor Swift
He goes no and you go oh alright
So did he hear those recordings or no?
Okay so
Actually Bob
Specifically gave these additional
Lyrics to T-Bone
And tasked him with making this
So it's okay so it's not that
Passive he knew so you imagine at some point
T-Bone probably said
Oh cool I'll get a bunch of young musicians
He must have at some point just emailed
Bob or gave him a call and said like
Hey Lance I got a bunch of people
Taylor Goldsmith
Alright so yes Bob's playing games man
He knew
Taylor Swift wasn't on that
Did a number crunch on Bob Dylan, Taylor Swift
And there was a song from Taylor's 2020 album
Folklore
That used Bob Dylan as a reference
It's not a cover but
Taylor was definitely
Taylor and Aaron
Dessner
Definitely used Bob as an inspiration
For her song Betty
So you know Bob
Wouldn't see anything off it
Like they did interviews and they said this is kind of like
A Bob Dylan homage
Do you want to listen to it?
Also I can see Bob Dylan being like
So what does that get me?
Bob gets nothing off it
Interpolate one of my songs
Use a riff
Taylor goes up to him at the Grammys
When you're just like hey Bob
She's like super gracious and nice
I know who you are
Oh wow that's amazing
I just wanted to say you're a huge inspiration
And actually on my Grammy award winning album
Folklore there's this song Betty
That's kind of our homage
And he's just like what percentage
Did I get? She's like oh no no
It's not a cover
It was just like we were inspired by you
I don't give a f***
He said hey you know the song
Knocking on Heaven's Door?
She's like yeah
I knew they weren't
How would you cover that?
I got a bunch of good ones
Those G&R checks
Are drying up
Come on Taylor
Aaron Destner explained Taylor wanted
To have an early Bob Dylan
Sort of a freewheeling Bob Dylan feel
We pushed it a little bit more towards
John Wesley Harding
Since it has some drums
Etc
When I heard the name Betty
I thought of the Bob song Joey
From Desire
Which I've learned listening to Joker Man
Is like a lot of fans hate the song
Joey I love that song
Well yeah obviously the harmonic already
Gives it a bit of a Bob thing
Bob's called his lawyer in
They're just sitting there listening to this song
Just me
Do you work with us?
Is there a grounds for a lawsuit?
We had Bob play Harmonica
For 5 million dollars
This just sounds like a Taylor Swift song to me
Where's the John Wesley Harding drums?
It's fun
It's possible that she
Maybe she never had Harmonica
In the song before
Drums about to drop
*Drums*
I'm skipping ahead
I'm waiting for the drums
Is it just the acoustic that's giving that
Percussive sound
Maybe they took them out
Can you hear 2 acoustics?
Our drums are very low in pitch
*Drums*
Born in Red Hill Brooklyn
In the year of a who knows when
Actually remember
We listened to a song from
This album or one of the other ones
That was about the woman
Who'd owned her
Mansion in
Fort Rhode Island
That's more of a Bob Dylan thing
To write a historical song
I get the freewheeling Bob
It's just interesting that he's this quote
Maybe we missed it but this quote is so specific
He was like "Yeah, Taylor wanted to do a freewheeling Bob thing"
And I said "Let's get a little later in the 60s"
To kind of like a John Wesley Harding thing
I feel like the drums on John Wesley Harding are real loud
And like present
And really like
It's all acoustic but with this
Very tight, forceful
Great drum sound
Kenny Butchry maybe
Playing drums
Maybe they had the drums and then they heard it
And they were like "This is too Dylan"
"He could get litigious over it, let's dial back the influence"
Yeah maybe let's dial it back
Now I'm also just picturing her being like
"Yeah, this is kind of like a folky song"
"Thought maybe throw in some harmonica"
"Do kind of like an early Bob type thing"
And he's just like "That's played out"
"Wanna do kind of like a Joker man thing?"
"Kind of like an 80s reggae version?"
He's like "Alright"
"Alright I'll try it"
Just throws out some really deep Bob reference
Okay well speaking of deep Bob
Let's see where this takes us man
Yeah let's crack this
Greatest Hits Volume 3
So I think, I imagine that the average TC fan
Is totally aware of Bob Dylan
We don't need to do some top 5 Bob
No
Homework
Cause everybody knows Bob Dylan
Being in this current, listening to a lot of Bob
And listening to Joker man and stuff
I've been talking about Bob a lot
And at some point Rashida claimed
That she's like "I don't really"
"I never got deep on Dylan"
"I really don't know"
But then we talked about it and I was like
And I think this is probably true for a lot of people
It might not be true for a Leonard Cohen
Or she was like "Well of course, I know Blown in the Wind"
And I think that, honestly I think that might be it
Then we talked about it and I was like "You know Hurricane?"
She was like "Oh yeah" I was like "You know Knockin' on Heaven's Door?"
She was like "Yeah yeah yeah"
And next thing you know it's like everybody knows at least 10 Bob songs
And that's before you even get into the weird stuff
Which of course there's quite a bit of
Over the course of 39 studio albums
And I guess what I've been interested in Dylan lately
And of course I've always
Or at least for the last few years
Had a deep love of his song Joker Man
Which is from the 80's
80's Dylan, you're well out of what
Many people consider the classic period
You know obviously the 60's are huge
Pretty unprecedented run
And then in the 70's
By some people's metrics
A little bit up and down
But still producing multiple classic, classic albums
So by the time you get to like the 80's
He was maybe not
Super culturally relevant
Of course he's Bob Dylan
So I'm sure there was somebody buying a copy of
The Freewheel and Bob Dylan or Desire every day
But I think he was
Bob Dylan
But you know when you actually picture him in the early 80's
When you really picture punk and new wave
And hip hop happening
Of course people respected him
But he was you know, he was a man in his
Early 40's
An icon of the 60's
In you know a time when the
Popular music really was not
Sounding like 60's music in terms of the
Production when you know
We've talked many times on this show about
The 80's kicking off with
John Lennon's murder
And the election of Reagan
So many reasons why
A 60's icon in their 40's
Might feel like a little bit at loose ends
Yeah I think a lot of
The stars from the 60's were
In a similar place to Dylan
A little bit just like fish out of water
Think about Neil Young's early 80's work
Oh that's when he got really weird
A guy from the 60's and 70's
Entering into the 80's
With the new production
Sounds of the era
And just making records in that context
It's all, I love that
Tension. And I was thinking about this too
And I'm sure you've put thought into this too Jake
But like how shockingly little
Music there is that still
Sounds like the 60's or 70's
I mean and of course you could, that's also the rise
Of some weird DIY cassette
Indie stuff, so you can find stuff that's like
Vibey with tape hiss
But when you listen to the music
You could totally understand if many
Of the older musicians
Decided to try to keep up with the new sounds
80's drum sounds
You know, new digital recording
But you would think maybe there'd be some percentage of people
Who'd be like, oh man I'm sticking with
My old board and tape machine, still works
And we know this equipment exists
Because there's people spending millions
Of dollars on it now
You know you always hear this where people are like
Oh yeah and then this rich dude bought the
Board that was at
Abbey Road that they recorded
Dark Side of the Moon on, oh man he paid
3 million dollars for it
You know there's even famous
Boards where people
Will buy like a single channel
Because then you can like pop out the channels
And you don't necessarily need the whole board
In the modern world
And you know, they'll pay top dollar
Especially if the provenance is interesting
And then old tape machines
Sometimes getting tape can be an issue
But you know people covered this stuff
So it's not like it was all destroyed
It does feel like in the 80s
It was all put in a closet
And I wonder if, even if you're Bob Dylan
Or something, or Neil Young
And this was maybe not their artistic
Intention, but you could think
Maybe one of these 60s guys would be like
Let's just like keep using the old tape machine
It's got a certain, it's kind of my sound
I want to stick with it, and yet literally
Nobody did, so then you start to imagine
That either they built a new home studio
And it was like top of the line gear
Or they rolled into all the normal
Studios in the big cities that they would go to
And just, things had moved on
And they'd listen back
And they'd just be like, close enough
That paints a portrait of these artists being very passive
Which they clearly weren't
So it's like, it is fascinating
That the picture, these guys
Recording in like 1982 and like hearing
That like drum tone with all the reverb
On it and being like, does that sound good to you guys?
And the engineer being like, yep
Sounds good, and I guess maybe
If also, if we're talking about these major icons
They were still interested in maybe like
Trying to have hits
And like, not wanting to admit that like
Maybe their biggest days were behind them
Which is human nature
And they were just like, yeah, let's keep up with the times
Like I was a big deal in 1970
Why can't I be a big deal in 1982?
Yeah, I want this to sound fresh
Yeah, you're right, because Neil Young or Bob Dylan
Or George Harrison, whoever
If they had gone to a big studio
And said like, get this crap out of here
Bring back the old tape machine
I don't want anything digital in
You know, you'd probably have a bunch of like studio interns
Being like, oh, it's gonna be a f***ing long night
But whatever, they would do it
I think a big part of it too is like
And I'm a little bit out of my depth here, obviously I have some familiarity
With this stuff, but I'm not like a hardcore tech dude
And in fact, I know a few
People who really study the history of recording
Might be cool to have on the show one day
I also just feel like the tape machines
Changed, maybe some of the
Boards are probably the same, it's just like
This really subtle way that even
Music from the 80s
When they're not going for the big
Gated reverb on the drums or like
Using synth, these like very obvious
Things that connote 80s, even when they are using
Like acoustic instruments and
Probably the same players and the same
You know, the same drum kit, maybe
Even the same mics, I do think just like
The tape machines changed
Yeah, no, I know what you mean
And maybe very few
People at that time were like
Okay, here's a test, do you know
The Empire Burlesque album?
Vaguely. The last song on it is called
Dark Eyes, and that is
It's a Bob Dylan record we're talking about
The last song is just him
And acoustic, and maybe a harmonica
And it sounds like an old Bob Dylan song
So this is from '85
I'm curious to hear what this sounds like
And interestingly, I don't think this
He put a single song from Empire Burlesque
On Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 3
So maybe he wasn't feeling it too much
But yeah, here's Dark Eyes
Already sounds 80s to me
I can hear it
Yes, yeah
The brightness
It honestly sounds 90s to me
Yeah, it does. He's ahead of his time
Oh, the gentlemen
Are
Talking
It's subtle
But I hear what you're saying
To me it's the brightness of the acoustic
That doesn't sound like the 70s
It might also be the digital tape they were probably using
Way less hiss and atmosphere
I was trying to do a freewheeling Bob Dylan thing
And I said let's do more of like
Empire Burlesque, Dark Eyes
Dark Eyes
It definitely doesn't sound 60s
I could see this being like 1978
Okay
But not 71
Yeah
Really picking nits here
I think 78 was when they first
Really started using
Kind of like digital
Well yeah, I mean think about like
Like Rumours doesn't sound
Like it's from the early 70s
It sounds
But it also doesn't sound like this
See that's what I'm saying
So that's a cool song
But you know, it's Bob, back to basics
60s elements, not trying to do
Not trying to keep up with
Duran Duran or whatever
Or even 80s Bruce Springsteen
And it still just sounds a little different
Well I thought of Springsteen because
Nebraska, but that was a consciously
That was lo-fi, because that was on cassette
Yeah, right
He was approaching that from a
Not from the vantage point of let me try to recreate
The sounds of 1972
They were demos essentially
Yeah but I guess
It has a different energy, like you wouldn't confuse Nebraska for a recording
From the early 70s
Just because the reverb is so crazy
Yes
But maybe in his own way
You know Bruce just being like
6 years younger than Bob
Something like that, you know
Born in 50 I think, and yeah Bob's like
42 maybe
I think Bruce is like 49
I'm pretty sure Bruce is 50
You think he was born in 1950?
I do
I'm sorry Jake, I hate to see you wipe out like this
But I guarantee Bruce is not born in 1950
How much do you want to bet?
Well because my dad was born in 1950
So there's no way
I would have looked at Bruce's
Wikipedia page and not
Clocked that they were both born in 1950
49
Ooh, ow, damn it
God
September 23rd though, so you're close
Just a couple months off
Why did I think 50?
No, you're right, September 23rd, 49 is basically 1950
But as Jake Welles knows
So near yet so far
To be born in 49
It's a different beast
I'm embarrassed
I feel like talking to my parents or my mom or something
When Tom Petty died, my mom pointed out
And you know what, he was born on the same day
As your dad
So he was only a year younger than Bruce?
Tom Petty?
Yeah, exactly, one year
So he was pretty old by the time he got truckin
Yeah, he was late 20s
Damn the Torpedoes was like 78 or something
Yeah, so he was like 28
Wow, that's old by that
By rock and roll standards of the 70s
He came in as a silverback
So I always remember that Tom Petty
Was the exact same age as my dad
To the day
I knew by process of elimination
That there was no way that Bruce was born in 50
And also, you know
I feel like when you're a real
Wikipedia music nerd head
You of course want to know
What year a record came out
And you also want to know how old the artist was
Of course
Music number crunch
You gotta know
So of course, I always know in my head that
Bob was born in
41
So he's 50 in 1991
Yeah
And it's also amazing to think he was so young
When the early records came out
He was
21?
He might have been 21 when he recorded Free Will and Bob Dylan
Maybe 22 Tops
It's also wild too to think about
When you think about Waves and Blood on the Tracks
He was like 33, 34
That comes to mind a lot
Because especially in Bob's career
Those are his
Mature divorce albums
When you think about Bob
When you're a kid and you might hear something about
Blood on the Tracks
You think about that and maybe you're starting to poke around
On early Bob Dylan stuff
You know Blood on the Tracks
You kind of think, well, yeah
I'll be ready for that in about 50 years
But in a way, Blood on the Tracks
When you're young, it almost seems like a record that was made by
A 50 year old
It's very adult
It's not even just grown up, it's like grown up and been through this
Crazy life cycle event
Anyway, that comes to mind a lot because
Jake, you'd been talking about not that long ago
Watching the Machine Gun Kelly documentary
That made me want to watch it
That's right
And I couldn't help it maybe just because I'd been listening to a lot of Bob
And I was like, alright, so Machine Gun Kelly's like
32
So if he was Bob Dylan, he'd be
Gearing up to make Planet Waves
Right now
And a year from now when Machine Gun Kelly's
Making his next album
He's basically in the Blood on the Tracks era
But you know, Bob Dylan kind of blows the curve
For everybody
I mean, I'm old
When Bob was my age, he was making
I'm 38
He was making Slow Train Comin'
There's a slow
Slow train comin'
Let's just throw in a little, what songs should I put on from Nebraska
Like Atlantic City
State Trooper
My name is Joe Roberts
Is that Highway Patrolman?
I think so, I don't know the titles
This has so much more atmosphere
Than that Dark Eyes
Empire Burlesque
The slap back on the vocals
I'm a sergeant
Out of Birdville
Barracks number 8
I always done an honest job
His honest death
This record rules
It's not like my favorite Bruce album
And yet
I'll weirdly say like
This album is what glues his whole career together
There's something about this album
When it came out
The way he made it, the cover
Is why
He would have so many great songs without it
And yet if you took this out of his discography
I feel like it all crumbles
If it goes from the river to Born in the USA
It's not nearly as interesting
Having the weird
Lo-fi record right in the middle
And also you know what's interesting to me
Is that you think about like Bruce
Deciding to let these demos go
Of course it doesn't actually sound like it's from
The early 60's
And yet you could imagine Bruce having just been
At a high end studio
With a friend of the show Jimmy Iovine
Friend of the Apple Music Organization
Jimmy Iovine
You know he'd just been recording the river
You could imagine Bruce being like
This kind of like infamous stickler
Obsessive dude
And if you've ever seen the documentary about the river
You know they're like going so hard on it
You could picture him like
See this sounds like 1980
This sounds more like Dark Eyes
Yeah yeah, this is 80's
Digital tape vibe
So you could imagine Bruce having done this
And being like happy with this album
But also being like
I want something that has like the energy of like the early
Records I was into
Bob Dylan, early rock and roll whatever
And maybe he just found at that point
It'd be insane to like go in with like
Ask Jimmy Iovine at the high end
You know hit factory or wherever they made this
He just realized the closest thing he could get
At that moment was
Using the 4-track tape recorder
Yeah I read the memoir I'm trying to
Remember if that was, if he had specifically
Addressed that cause it is almost like yeah
Like I could picture him thinking about like
Buddy Holly or Roy Orbison
Not that Nebraska sounds like
Those artists, but
A comparable recording situation
And I guess that's what's cool and also why like
You know you even think about
Chillwave
I guess that's kind of an outdated term but you know
Chillwave which has
In a way morphed into
This lo-fi hip hop beats
To study to type music
Arguably Chillwave
Has cast a really like long
Shadow and a lot of it was based on samples
And you kind of realize Chillwave in a way
I think was also
Artists trying to
Capture a vibey analog
Feel from music they grew up with
But of course now they're doing it in Ableton
And Pro Tools and using samples
And stretching stuff out
So you know it's like trying to get back to that sound
And yet because you're in the modern world
It turns into something different
But it's also like a good reminder how sometimes
Looking backwards and quote unquote
Nostalgia actually
Produces something
You know you almost like can't worry about it too much
Like you know if you love the Tasteful Palette
Of the 1970s like
Yeah go ahead try to recreate it right now
You'll get something different
You'll get Mountain Bruce
Yeah the best
Which you would not confuse for 70s music
The best of the old and the new
What's going on with that Mountain Bruce vinyl do you want to plug that in for a second
That's coming out in October
I think we're going to do pre-orders in August sometime
Looking good
The art's amazing
We actually got the physical release
You got the physical release?
Got the art for the physical release
And it looks great
First ever physical release
Wait because how long has Mountain Bruce been going now like
5 years?
3, 2019
Was when the first one dropped
3 years in, first physical release
Yup, double
So did you throw it on? On the sound system at home?
Oh yeah, yeah
Got the test pressings
Sound pretty good
Pretty good
This is the full catalog on vinyl, this is every song
It's coming out
Double album, self titled Mountain Bruce
You doing merch? We'll do some merch
So because this 2 LP set
Is the material from the
First 4 Mountain Bruce EPs
In your mind and in your marketing
Materials, do you refer to this
As a compilation?
Or you just say it's finally here
Mountain Bruce debut album
No it's a comp
It's kind of how the weekend started
Really? Right?
You want to weigh in on some Canadian musical history?
I mean you said it all
It's just how the weekend did it
He did the mix tapes
Then he put them all together in an album
I mean you're really following the weekend model
I just mean the weekend did 4 EPs
Of the tasteful
70's inspired country folk rock
And then compiled them
On a 2 LP set
He put out a bunch of EPs
And then his first long player
Was all the EPs
Together
And then he made his first debut album
So will you be releasing the double
On streaming services as one album?
No
I think it's a mistake
I don't know it seems like you're
Leaving a lot of money on the table
I've looked over those Mountain Bruce
Sales numbers and let me tell you
We're not
I mean I think Mountain Bruce is doing pretty good numbers
For pure self released
The song Mountain Bruce
Definitely does strong numbers
I don't think there's anything surprising
The song Mountain Bruce has it's own life
And also just to contextualize
If Mountain Bruce is doing numbers on other
Streaming services that really says a lot
When you consider that
So many Mountain Bruce fans
Like all good hearted people are
Listening to Apple music
Cause there probably like some people who
Heard we debuted some
Sweet Chili Heat premieres
I imagine you got a ton of Apple music listeners
You know what else would be classic though?
And I don't know
What the plan is for other territories
That's some stuff you'd totally be reading
Like going down some rabbit hole reading about
Somebody's career and be like
They released the first four EPs in America
Which was presented as a collection
For the US market
But in the Philippines
That's generally seen as Mountain Bruce's
First debut album
Because nobody
Like nobody heard Bruce in the Philippines
Until the two album set dropped
There was zero awareness
That those were four EPs
So generally when
Filipino music historians are looking at the
Bruce discography they count that as
A studio album
There was an influential DJ
In the Philippines that
Got the vinyl
Started spinning
He started with side three Raising a Place
That's right
Raising a Place really struck a nerve
Disc one was damaged so he actually never
Was able to play
The original Mountain Bruce stuff
He only did Raising a Place and Down to the Studs
Wait so is this two album set
Is it just called Mountain Bruce?
It's just called Mountain Bruce
Alright so you can see the confusion
Lot of confusion
On Wikipedia
Mountain Bruce disambiguation page
Mountain Bruce can refer to
The musical project
Mountain Bruce
The 2019 EP
Mountain Bruce
The 2022 collection Mountain Bruce
Or the social phenomenon
Of Mountain Bruce
Or literal Mountain Bruce
Because I should also mention that there is a brewery
In Ohio called Modern Methods Brewery
That is putting out
Mountain Bruce
In conjunction with the release?
Around the same time it just worked out timing wise
Did you design the can?
The can is the record cover
Sick
Of the Eagle with the six pack ring
Wow
And the Mountains
Did you have to approve the samples?
Haven't tasted it yet
What if you hate it?
I'll love it
It's the riffing on Wurst Marg
And I'm just trying to hold on
Wait wait it's a margarita flavored beer?
No no no
Well while Jake searches I'll just throw out
That the 1975 the band
On their debut album
The 1975 is called The 1975
No I think every album they do
Starts with
It has a song called The 1975
Oh really?
I thought you were going to say it's called Mountain Bruce
That would be way cooler
Okay Mountain Bruce
Key lime pilsner 4.5%
A pilsner fermented with the key lime
And blue agave with a crack of sea salt
For the crispiest of crispy
Fruited lagers
I can tell you I don't know if you're going to like that
We brewed this to be the best beer
For when you can't get your hands on the worst margarita
Of my life
Well look either way whether Jake loves it or hates it
It still tracks
No it's great I'm just saying how confidently and quickly
He said I'm going to love it
Well Jake loves beer
I'm psyched on this key lime pilsner
4.5% I respect the lower alcohol
Wait when's it coming out?
Because this sounds perfect for summer
It's coming out soon like what do these guys say?
Here's my last email
Love this timeline
(laughter)
Did you write that or you wrote that?
I wrote to them
Love this timeline
I'm just trying to
That was you doing an impression of you
(laughter)
So heightened
Hey Jake we were thinking about tweaking
The amount of key lime we put in
Next email
I don't give a f*** I just want the money
Going to be brewing the pilsner
In the next
So this was on July 9th this email
Going to be brewing the pilsner
In the next two weeks which puts a release out
In two months give or take
Physical?
I think we're getting this Mountain Brews brew in like mid late September
And this is real beer
This is not like an NFT
This is not an NFT this is a real beer
It's going to be in 16 ounce cans
With the Mountain Brews
Double LP artwork on the can
Available where?
An Ohio based beer themed NFT producer
Has teamed up
(laughter)
American Painter radio personality
They're based out of Ohio I think Warren, Ohio
I'm not sure
Modern Methods Brewing Company
I love the name that's such a good name
But do they have national distribution or
It's only in Ohio or Midwest
I don't know I don't know what their distro situation is
Well any you can get
You know there are people shipping beer everywhere
Ship some out to me you know
I'm not too worried about someone like
Can someone go into a cool liquor store
In uh
Odessa Texas and buy
Mountain Brews probably not
That's okay though
You're just like sending them irate emails
My friend from college lives in Portland
Just walked in
Just went to their local bar
They did not
Never even heard of it
What are you guys doing
I'm in the Whole Foods in Pasadena
And I'm not seeing it
(laughter)
What's up
Every bodega in Brooklyn
Yeah we've talked about that before it is so mysterious
How I mean clearly
I think it's because like one or two companies
Own everything
But how you know just one day
You roll into some like
Random gas station
Or you know
CVS somewhere and just like
Suddenly they have
Some kind of like Whole Foods looking product
What we talked about
With Kind Granola
You know like suddenly you're just in like a CVS
In Warren Ohio
And you just see like huge bags of
Kind Granola
And you're just like
How did this one
Why was this the one to make it
And I think it's almost always because the distribution channels
Are controlled by a few
Companies like
Dr. Gamble or something
Yeah they bought it so now that one's there
Well maybe things will pan out
For modern methods I don't know
Either way very cool
Absolutely
We'll have to drink that on air
That's going to be a huge episode
Absolutely it's going to be a huge moment
Alright so Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 3
So you know
Part of the reason that we're doing this is
I've been listening to this in particular a lot
That's something I don't listen to
Bob Dylan's Hits albums that often
Especially in the streaming era
I'm not often listening to just like the best of playlist
Or anything and yet there's something about
Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 3
Because it covers so much of his
Like weird years
The 80's I just find it to be such a fascinating
Collection and I think it's also just a good way in
For people
Who are kind of like the casual Dylan fan
You know they know all the classic albums
And just like yeah I don't know any of that 80's stuff
Well it's also a lot of the 70's
There's 73 to 91
There's a bunch of 70's stuff too
And so I guess the first thing you need to understand about Bob Dylan
And his relationship to the Greatest Hits format
Is that
You know as with his Taylor Swift comment
He's a very playful
Strange guy
You know he is
Or he sometimes maybe is
Embodies the Joker man
And so even if you go back to Bob Dylan's
Greatest Hits
Volume 2
Which came out
Bob Dylan first released a Greatest Hits album in 1967
And if you look at that one
It's 10 songs
It's like pretty straight forward
Opens with Rainy Day Woman number 12 and 35
Which was kind of like a chart hit
I think that's like a well known Bob Dylan song
Everybody must get stoned
And then
Track 2
Blown in the wind
How many roads must a man walk
Yeah it makes sense
Track 3
The times they are a changin'
Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
You know you keep going through
And it's like you get to It Ain't Me Babe
Like a Rolling Stone, Mr. Tambourine Man
You can take some issue
But it's like these are his best known songs of that era
Positively 4th Street
A big single
So that's like a great way for a fan who
Loves that song but doesn't have the single
To you know listen to it on an LP
Okay
Then in 71
When Bob has been through quite a bit
He's experienced
What Lady Gaga aptly called
The Fame Monster
He'd been in a motorcycle accident
He'd watched as some of his
Ideas and people inspired by him
Gave birth to kind of the whole hippie
Late 60s thing which obviously he was like
Wanted to keep at arm's length
He declined to play Woodstock
You know he was entering this phase where he was kind of
This like OG
Even though you know by 71 he's only 30
Years old but he probably felt really old at that
Point and he was probably seeing some flower
Power stuff and actually feeling like he was
A million years old
Anyway at this point he's putting together
His Greatest Hits Volume 2
First song on Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 2
Watching the River Flow
Honestly don't know it
Look and if Jake doesn't know it
I only know it because
He played it at the
Stage this and I was like looking later and I was like
What was that song? Wait play it
This is track one on Greatest Hits Volume 2
Is this off Self Portrait?
No I don't think this was on an album
Uh huh
What's the matter with me?
I don't have much to say
Daylight sneaking through the window
And I'm still in this
Cold night cafe
Yeah this collection is very weird
Yeah I guess this was like a single
The same year that this
Came out and also just
To open with it
It's a little clunky the dunk gah gah
And then he gets into some
Don't Think Twice It's Alright, Lay Lady Lay
But even Don't Think Twice It's Alright
Is funny because it's like that's from
Freewheeling like he already
Released the Greatest Hits
Right, that covers this era
Yeah so it doesn't have that like
The Beatles Greatest Hits type
Standardization where it's like this era
These are the biggest singles they released
And then in this era you know
Yeah this is just all over the place
All over the place, Lay Lady Lay
Then you get stuck inside a mobile
With Mephiles again which is from
Blonde on Blonde?
Or is it from uh, I think it's from Blonde on Blonde
Which also was covered by the last one
So it's kind of all over the place
Listen to those drums Taylor
Crisp
Yeah it's all of it
It's going from that back to uh
Natural Skyline era
I'll Be Your Baby Tonight
And then you get this, a song Jake knows well
Because I believe he's sung it
Live
This is just an unreleased song
He just started throwing unreleased songs on his
Greatest Hits which is some
Really wild behavior
Great Dead covers of this song
So the Dead played this all the time
As did Richard Pictures
It's really like a centerpiece of the Richard Pictures show
And you sing this right?
Oh yeah
Like I can understand
Stopping one unreleased song on your Greatest Hits
Just to be like, and here's a little bonus
But he has like three or four on this
Yeah I mean you ain't going nowhere
Had been covered by the Birds
Right
On Sweetheart of the Rodeo
But his version wasn't out
I don't think his version of I Shall Be Released was out either
No, only the band
And then, so clearly Bob
Enjoys the Greatest Hits
Format as a way to
I wonder if in his mind he's kind of just like having fun with it
By just being like
Oh yeah, and you know
A whole bunch of my Greatest Hits from that era
You actually never heard them before
Or if maybe he was just thinking
He could kind of like retroactively make these hits
You know, give them a little pride of place
On the Greatest Hits
Either way, it's unusual because there's a lot of artists
Who'll put out a kind of like odds and ends type compilation
Yeah
Which is maybe where you would normally find a song
Like when I paint my masterpiece
I like what you're saying
I feel like it's the children
When I got these
Greatest Hits
As, you know, someone who's listening
Finding it in my parents' collection
And I were to put this on, I go
Whoa, when I paint my masterpiece
It must be one of his biggest songs ever
It's on his Greatest Hits
And then now I'm telling people
You know, that he created it
That's a very cool idea
Is that he basically canonized songs no one had ever heard of
Yeah
He's like, "I'm gonna make the Greatest Hits
So when the next generation finds this compilation
They hold this up and they go, "This was it
This was the best he did"
And think about it, yeah, with the Greatest Hits
Especially with somebody with so many albums
A lot of people would gravitate towards the Greatest Hits
It's just a way to understand it
So just imagine how many people probably grabbed his Greatest Hits Vol. 2
And the first song they heard is
Watching the River Flow
Which, grab any boomer on the street
Who'd profess to be a Bob Dylan fan
I'm not talking about the people who like
The hardcore Dylanologists
I'm just saying, grab some old dude off the street
You're like, "Bob Dylan?" "Oh, absolutely, man
'60s, yeah"
Just be like, "Watching the River Flow"
A lot of them are just gonna be like, "Oh, not familiar with that one"
And maybe it kinda worked
That now some people are more familiar
With these songs
But by the time you get to His Greatest Hits Vol. 3
It's really wild
Because, yeah, maybe he just wanted to take control
Of the narrative, which makes a lot of sense
He famously is a guy who felt
Kind of misunderstood by the press
Felt like he was kinda
Forced into a box
You could imagine him wanting to be
Tell his own story with his Greatest Hits
Even if it starts to undermine
The concept of a hit
So anyway, that's all the backstory
To lead us up to Bob Dylan's
Greatest Hits Vol. 3
Which is what I recommend
For the casual Bob fan
Who's ready to take it one step deeper
Maybe you're not ready to listen to Empire Burlesque
Front to back
Few are
This is your way in
So Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Vol. 3
When did this come out? This came out in the 90s
'94
So '94, Bob Dylan's 53 years old
Hadn't had his kind of like
Commercial, critical renaissance yet
That he had with Time Out of Mind
And his kinda like old dude albums
Where people were like, "Oh yeah, Bob"
So this is kind of a random period for him
But in '94, Bob's really thinking
A lot about how does he want
To tell the story
Of the past 20 years of his career
'Cause, you know, there's a lot of ways he could do it
So he opens up with
I think a pretty classic
Big hit for him. He's not being quite as weird
As opening up with Watching the River Flow
He opens up with Tangled Up in Blue
Which is from an album
That's generally considered one of his all-time greats
Blood on the Tracks
This has been one of my favorite Bob songs
Of maybe the last year or so
Oh, it's interesting 'cause on the Jokerman pod
You talk about how you prefer
Planet Waves
I do, as a record
But this is one of my favorite
Bob songs, I think
That's a great song
I love that East Coast shout-out
[Laughter]
I wonder if he plays that
In like, on the Eastern Seaboard
And is like, "Woo!"
"East Coast!"
Playing it in Delaware
"Woo!"
"It's time to be divorced!"
"I helped her out of a jam, I guess"
I mean, yeah, this is just like
All these vignettes
People pontificate on this song
For decades, but
To me, it's just like, yeah, the most vivid
Storytelling
In a song
All these different stories
Don't even seem like the same person
Interrelated, and then just wrapping it up
With this turn of phrase
"Tangled Up in Blue"
I take it for granted, because this song is so familiar
But when you really think about it
And think about how at this moment
In the 70s, he would have known
A billion songs where people talk about
Feeling blue, or being blue
And he just does a slight
Tweak to it, "Tangled Up in Blue"
And just immediately feels so different
Is "Tangled Up in Blue" meaning
You're just like, feeling bummed?
Doesn't sound quite like that
It sounds like, weirder
It sounds like you're interacting with a weird
"Tangled Up in Blue"
It's just like, a different feeling
Yeah, it's a little, like, messier
Than just being like, "I'm down"
Yeah, 'cause getting tangled up
Almost feels like you're fighting with something
It's like, a little more chaotic
Tangled up
Tangled up in blue
She was working in a topless place
And I stopped in for a beer
I just kept looking at the side of her face
And the spotlight so clear
Later on, when the crowd thinned out
I was just about to do the same
She was standing there
In back of my chair
I said, "Timmy, don't I know your name?"
I murdered something underneath my breath
She studied the lines on my face
I must admit, felt a little uneasy
When she bent down to tie the lace
Of my shoes
Tangled up in blue
Quick question about the "Greatest Hits" format
Typically, does the artist pick their songs?
I've always sort of thought of it as a record label sort of cash grab
Oh, that's a good point
I think sometimes the record label could
Bob's been on the same label
Also the current home of Vampire Weekend
Columbia Records
For his entire career
Very unusual
He was signed to Columbia Records
In the early 60s
And he's still on Columbia Records now
Amazing
He survived the purchase of Columbia Records
By the Japanese conglomerate, Sony
And he's been there the whole time
So you would imagine he has
Sometimes you hear these stories where like
Like famously the Red Hot Chili Peppers
I think they're on Warner Brothers
And then they bounced
And then they made Blood Sugar Sex Magic for somebody else
And then Warner, seeing how big they got
Compiled all their 80s stuff
And just made like a weird "Greatest Hits"
Cause I kind of remember coming across
What hits by the Red Hot Chili Peppers
And just being like, where's all the good sh*t?
Kind of
Anyway, so Bob opens with "Tangled Up In Blue"
Classic song
And like, you know, I think a fairly successful single in the 70s
It also just reminds me of a thought that I've had
Sometimes with Bob
When you think about how Bob was
So influential to the
Other artists around him
The people who were slightly later
Or just after him, or a tiny bit younger
I always find it's interesting for me to think about
Like all kind of music
Tweebs, you can obsess so much about
The Beatles and the Stones
And what they were doing, and wow
And then the Beatles decided they started smoking weed
Or then they got into Indian music and they made these choices
I've also found it very interesting
To sometimes think about what Bob Dylan
Was doing a few months before
They made that record
It suddenly just contextualizes stuff
And I guess this is pretty obvious, but sometimes
When I listen to the records I feel it more
When you picture the Beatles making "Rubber Soul"
A kind of artistic breakthrough
And doing like Norwegian wood
I think John Sett was kind of doing a Bob Dylan thing
And you picture them trying to like
Experiment a little bit more
And then you listen to the records that Bob Dylan made in 1965
And you think about them listening to like
Like a Rolling Stone or Desolation Row
I might have the math a little bit off
But more or less
That's '65
Yeah, I'm just saying, I don't know which albums came out before "Rubber Soul"
And just suddenly you picture them
Hearing those songs
You can suddenly imagine how they probably felt like
Kind of like dorks
And then you even just picture this point
'75, all those guys just listening to Bob drop
Like "Tangled Up in Blue"
And just, you know, he was like
Always probably seemed a few steps
Ahead, like even when people were doing
Great work and then Bob just like dropped something like that
That probably always provided a bit
Of an inspiration or even
A competitive spirit or something
And that's because he always just seemed like
Artistically like 10 or 20 years older
They're listening to Highway 61
And they're just like "Damn, that's out of tune"
They left it like that?
That is the most
Just be like "This is baller"
Yeah, exactly, just like "Wow"
They didn't have the term "punk" really but like
Damn, Bob went hard with leaving that
Those guitars are so out of tune
On that record
Queen Jane approximately
You put that on and you're just like
That is wild
It's raw, but I need to get into the weeds for a second
Seinfeld, tell me what date
Did the Beatles album "Help" come out?
I love this
We need to really get into some
Granular mid-60s rock history, let's go
1965
What's the date though?
Well, in the US
In the US it was
July 19th
How about in the Philippines?
Oh, Philippines, 1987?
No
UK
July 23rd, 1965
Ok, so I want to point out
Because back then, records, it seemed like they would turn them in
There were none of these supply chain issues
No
They would be on vinyl in stores like weeks later
Two weeks later
So, bring it all back home
The Bob Dylan album, his first electric album
Came out March 22nd, '65
So they're probably like starting to
They might not even been to the studio yet for "Help"
But they're starting to gear up for that, working on "Help"
And then they hear "Bring it all back home"
For Bob Dylan, and you just picture like
Subterranean blues
And just picture it, you're the Beatles, you're some of the greatest songwriters of all time
And
You're even kind of getting into new territory
Even "Help", they are getting into new territory
Even the song "Help", it's like
That couldn't have been on the early
"Help, I need somebody"
You're like trying to express this kind of like
Slightly more sophisticated emotion
A type of anxiety
You know, something that you wouldn't have if you didn't want to hold your hand
So you're working on that
And it is cool, but then you just hear
Like "Danny's in the basement mixing"
It's like, I'm sure somebody
With a different vantage point could say "No, no, that thing helps way cooler"
But I'm saying at that time
You would just hear Bob Dylan's new record
Opens with subterranean homesick blues
"Danny's in the basement thinking about the government"
You would just be like "What the hell is this?"
If you were cool, you'd probably feel a little bit like
Behind
And then you start trying to catch up, then later that year you write
"Norwegian Wood" but then he's dropping "Like a Rolling Stone"
And again, I'm not saying that
The Bob songs are better
I'm just saying if you're kind of like
You know, an artsy
Depressive type like a John Lennon
You'd probably just always feel a little bit like
You know, just like
Dude's on another level
But people didn't feel that way in the late 70s
Track 2 on "Greatest Hits"
Volume 3, so this is interesting
So it opens with "Tango in Blue", totally normal
Then track 2, "Changing of the Guards"
Hell yeah
So this is a great song, one that actually
I think your brother Dave introduced me to
I have this memory of when we all lived in a house in Brooklyn
Like when I was a teacher
Hearing Dave like working on
Probably "Rise Above"
And I feel like he was always
Blasting "Changing of the Guards"
And at first I would like
Kind of hear it through the floor
And I'd hear the saxophone and be like "Is this Bruce?"
And then be like "What is it?"
Because I didn't know it was Street Legal at all
And it was not a particularly respected album
For a long time
The heads love it now
So anyway, track 2 he's already getting like, you know, interesting
"Changing of the Guards"
And also he's skipping ahead
He could easily have put out
Two songs from "Blood on the Tracks"
And then one from "Desire"
"16 Banners United Over the Fields"
I love that
That was on his record
Two days ago
Front to back
Blasting
He played this one a bunch in '78
"Break In"
Not a single concert since then
I wonder what
The problem was in 1978
With the rock critics
Why were they crapping on this so hard?
Bring up that Robert Criscale review
Of "Changing of the Guards"
This is so Bruce
I think
He also did this big tour around this era
Where he had a huge band
And he had the female backup singers
Saxophones
Probably like 15 people on stage
Maybe for these critics
Who grew up with Dylan
And thought he was the epitome of cool
There was even something about him
Using the backup singers
And the saxophone
That kind of connoted
Showbiz glitz or something
And they couldn't really look at the songs the same way
And also he was coming off the back of a really strong run
"Blood on the Tracks"
Into "Desire"
Into this
And this is dope
And that's why I think
They were cheering this song on the greatest hits
But they probably felt like this was
A letdown after those
Robert, our boy Robert gave it a C+
Too low man
Greal Marcus is the one who reviewed it for Rolling Stone
Yeah?
It saddens me that I can't find it in my heart
To agree with my colleague Dave Marsh
That Bob Dylan's new record is a joke
Or in any way a good one
Most of the stuff here is dead air
Or close to it
The novelty of the music
Bob Marley's I3s
Funk riffs from the band
Lots of laconic sax work
Quickly fades as one realizes how indifferent the playing is
Inveterate rock and rollers
Learn to find charm
In boastful, secretly girl-shy adolescence
But boozy-voiced
Misogynists in their late 30s
Are a straight drag
This divorcee sounds overripe
Too in love with his own self-generated
Misery to break through the leaden
Tempos that oppress his melodies
Devoid not just of humor
But of lightness
Unless that is he intends his Neil Diamond masquerade
As a joke
Yeah, see, they're comparing it disfavorably to Neil Diamond
They're saying he's old
He's out of touch, he's a misogynist
And the truth is, he went
It's funny to hear this, and then
Jake, have you ever actually listened to Bob Dylan at Budokan?
Which he put out the next year?
Because this is when he really went into that
I can understand why the critics
Couldn't get down with this
I mean, I kind of love it, but this is like
Bob, 1979, older dude
Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man
You hear a 60s hit
That flute?
I mean, because the original Mr. Tambourine Man
It's like, so austere
And vibey
Yeah, the flute's pretty funny
Yeah, the flute is
It seems that they hate the singing
I mean, that's really
It's like the vocal quality, the way in which he's singing
That seems to be a big
They hate the singing on Street Legal?
Yeah
Look, I can understand if critics said
Street Legal is spotty
There are like some obvious bright spots
Changing of the guards, hell of a song, senior
Tales of Yankee Power
Vibey, cool song, I can understand if they're just like
Mixed, but they're like
Seem like they're really hating on it
Knives out, knives out for Bob
So anyway, he throws changing of the guards track too
Probably because he's like, you know, a little bit
Defiant, you know, he wants to
Show them that
That's a great song
You guys slept on Street Legal when it came out, you know what?
It's the greatest hit
That's right
He's basically saying, neither the critics
Nor the public
Decide my greatest hits
I wish Robert Crisco would do sort of a
You know how Pitchfork does the like, Revisited?
Oh yeah
If he would like, go back and be like, okay I just re-read my review
From 44 years ago
Yeah
For Street Legal
And you know what?
A+
I take it all back
This is where it really starts to get interesting
On The Greatest Hits Volume 3, because I love this song
I was still waiting at the altar
Which is from Shot of Love
Which was his final Christian album
From the early 80's
This was a B-side to
One of the singles off that album
Oh really?
Yeah, it was a B-side to Heart of Mine
It was on the album, but he's picking a B-side
To represent that whole album
Oh yeah, but it's on the record
Oh yeah, it's on the record, it's not just a B-side
But I'm just saying like, you know, there's a school of thought
That's like, well, you know, pick all the singles
Yeah
And this is him being like, if I'm gonna pick one song from Shot of Love
It's gonna be The Groom Still Waiting at the Altar
This is the exact type of thing
That song, I just like, could not have understood remotely
In my teens or 20's
Oh, absolutely not
Maybe even not my early 30's
But now
I mean
It's really not my favorite Bob mode
Still
No, it's
I gotta say, I mean
The clunky blues
But this song gets better and better to me
Like, I know what you mean
He still dips heavily into this
Oh yeah
Bar rock vibe
West of the Jordan, east of the rock of Gibraltar
I see the curtain of the gate
And life's in my fate
I like, uh, you're at Columbia University
Early 2000's, walking down to his dorm
And he's just playing this
Shot of Love, dude
Classic record
Wait, so what do you love about this song?
I'm honestly, I usually like, will skip
This kind of stuff from Bob
I know the Bob heads out there
Are just like rolling their eyes
Like, Jake's an amateur over here
But this is
Okay, I really like the lyrics
Because I think if you're gonna do like
Be like an aging white dude doing a straight ahead blues
You have to have a cool
You gotta bring it
Lyrical twist
And then I like the way that this song
Is like a slight twist on a blues
I see the curtain of the gate
And rising on the gate
See the moon's still waiting
At the altar
Yeah, the turnaround is just like
It's one different way to turn around a blues progression
Which I kind of
Oh, what I could say about Gloved Head
Wouldn't come back to haunt me
Honey, have you given up
Weirdly, this sounds like it's from the early 90's to me
I don't know, I'm not a fan of the 90's
I like the sort of Mr. Burns Bob Dylan
Yeah
He gets on the phone and
Rod's like "Oh!
Oh Bob! I can't believe it man
You know I respect you so much
Oh I guess it was just a bit of confusion
Oh I'm so sorry, I don't give a f***
Give me the money
Give me the money Rod!"
It sort of reminds me of a couple weeks ago
Oh I don't know when this is gonna air but
Did you guys see Kanye West's
Induction, well not induction speech
But speech for Puff Daddy at the BET Awards
No I missed that
It's great
He shows up and he does this thing and he says
There's some really beautiful things about Puff
But one of the things he says is how important Puff was to him
And he goes you know I was
Basically I made and produced music
Because of Bad Boy
And in my mind I was young but I was part of Bad Boy
I was signed to Bad Boy
Before he even knew it
He goes that is not contractually binding
Because he knew
Puff would go okay
It was so quick
It's so clever
Puff puts his phone down, he's already texting the lawyer
That is not contractually binding
Alright so Forever Young, classic
Vibey, pretty song
Covered many times
I don't think it was a single but
Sort of the most enduring song
Off that record
This is a top tier greatest hit
Oh absolutely
This is the run that I really like
So we heard five songs
Changing of the guards, still waiting at the altar
Kind of strange but still three songs
That more or less make sense on greatest hit
And then you get into Joker Man
Which of course
What more can we say about this
And also the fact that he like
Ping pong between the 70s and 80s
Makes it like a crazy listen
No I love that it's not in order
Because that's another thing
A lot of times greatest hits records are in chronological order
Yes
This is not remotely
Hell no
Mark Knopfler on guitar, Sly and Robbie
Drums and bass
But yeah already just going forever
From Forever Young into Joker Man
Bit of whiplash
And then I love this run
Then you get into this
Which I didn't know
Maybe I'd never heard until I was like really throwing on
Greatest hits volume 3 a lot
Because this is where he's really getting weird
This song, Dignity
Was unreleased
This is he's getting back up to his old tricks
Nobody had ever heard this song
Outside of maybe some weird people with bootlegs
So this is a song he'd worked on
During the Oh Mercy sessions
With Daniel Lanwau in the late 80s
And I guess he never quite nailed it or he didn't feel good about it
And then he kind of
Retracked a few things and threw it on his
Greatest hits volume 3 because why not
And maybe you know when I think about
Why the groom still waiting
At the altar is kind of like appealing to me
In this context
Even though you're totally right at almost any other
Age in my life I would hear the beginning
And I was just like next
Maybe it's because I like this idea of just Bob in '94
Looking back and trying to pick the songs
Of his that captured this era
Maybe that's why I'm like fixated
On this lyrical thing that the groom
Is still waiting at the altar the same way that
Joker Man also seems to be telling some
Weird mystical tale of like
The moment and then this song
Definitely feels like he might have had a
Feeling this clearly is not a greatest hit
Of mine nobody knows it and yet
This has something to say about the way
I see the world right now
And this song is called Dignity so he felt this was
Important enough to put on his greatest hits volume 3
This is a real
90s sound
This is a 90s
Back to basics sound
Fat man looking at a blade of steel
Fat man looking at a
Blade of steel
Thin man looking at his last meal
Hollow man looking at a
Cocktail
For dignity
Wise man looking
At a blade of grass
Young man looking
At a shadows that pass
Poor man looking
To claim a claim
For dignity
Somebody
Got murdered on New Years Eve
Somebody
Said dignity was the first to leave
I went
Into the city
Went into the town
Went into the land of the midnight sun
Search and hide
Search and look
Searching everywhere
I know
Asking the cops
Where ever I go
Have you
Seen dignity
I love that line
Asking the cops where ever I go
Have you seen dignity
Blind man breaking
Out of a trance
Puts his both hands in the pockets of chance
It's like a meditation on a concept
Like you can picture Bob
In 89 just looking at like the modern world
And just being like
What happened to dignity man
We live in a political world
Everything's broken and then he just starts writing like
Verse after verse with all these like weird
Ways in to like what does dignity
Mean somebody got murdered on New Years Eve
I heard dignity was the first to leave
Like in a way
Remember we always used to joke about
The Eagles comeback song in the 90's called
Get over it and that was them being like
Watching TV and just being like man
What's going on with this country everybody's whining
Get over it
Whereas I feel like this is Bob's way more mystical
Poetic version just like looking at
Modern America and empathetic
Yeah hitting it from all sides
You picture yeah
Glenn Frey just like
At his Bel Air mansion you know
And just like looking down
I mean I don't know if he really was but I just
Like the tone of get over it is just like
Get over it all this b****** and whining
And giving b****** get over it
Kicking a fit wait listen to this
This is where he also just Bob like
All over the place I love this verse this is pretty
Strange
Drinking man listening to the boys ears
In a crowded room
Full of covered up ears
Looking into the lost
Forgotten years
For dignity
Met Prince Philip
At the home of the blues
You catch that
Wow
Prince Philip at the home of the blues
This is also really weird
Especially looking back
Now after like having watched
The crown and this like
Renewed focus on the royal family
I don't have in front of me but I think he's
I met Prince Philip at the home of the blues
He said he'd give me information
If his name wasn't used
Blah blah blah
He said he'd been abused by dignity
Wow
Like did Bob he probably just made that up
But maybe Bob had some weird conversation
With Prince Philip well especially
Did you ever watch the crown Jake?
Yes although I'm not I didn't get up to the more modern era
Well like the first season of the crown
You know is so much about
The fact that
Queen Elizabeth becomes queen and she's young
Yeah and then she has her kind of like
Bad boy
Posh husband Prince Philip who's kind of like
So she has to deal with the fact that she's
Had this title imposed on her
And he has to deal with his kind of like
Bruised male ego about being like
Oh what now I'm just like the husband of the queen
I'm kind of like I'm like a jock
I'm like a royal jock
Like and you know he's cheating on her
And being like a bad boy or something
Obviously I don't really know what I'm talking about but I can say
Cause I was 10 years old in '94
And I wasn't familiar with like the
Discourse about the royal family but I feel like
Especially with the Meghan and Harry era
I feel like in my life I've heard way more
People have and the crown way more people
Having conversations about the weird
Duality of
The royal family especially since the
Death of Diana which I think was in the
Late 90s the idea that
The royal family on the
One hand is you know these people with all this
Power but they're also human beings
Imprisoned they're almost like
Imprisoned in a
Symbolic world that they can't
Really escape and they have to represent
Something and they have to anyway
To me that's like conversations that I've
Heard in my adult life so you know
The past 20 years there's something
About picturing Bob well I guess he wrote in '89
Picturing Bob in '89 just thinking
About Prince Philip of all people
This is before all the drama with
Diana just Bob thinking about Prince Philip
As he's meditating on the concept of dignity
And imagining a circumstance
Where Prince Philip was like a nervous
Mob informant who wanted
To talk to him and said I'm gonna tell you something
But you can't use my name
And Bob's like what is it Prince Philip?
I've been abused
By dignity. It weirdly
Like tracks with this like modern royal family
It's just the fact that even on Bob's mind
This idea of a member of the royal family
Feeling like he's
Flipping the concept of dignity now as
Being like an imposing oppressive force
And for some reason he's thinking about Prince
Philip and he's thinking like
Prince Philip has to maintain a sense
Of decorum and dignity
That's the job. Which in his case literally
Means being like a professional boyfriend
Professional quiet boyfriend
Yeah and maybe not pursuing
What's really in your heart
Right. You have to
Maintain the pose. And just the
Fact that yeah that Bob's like truly hitting
Dignity from every side
I met Jeffrey Epstein
The other day
Bob
I asked him where his money's from he said he didn't know
What did you know Bob?
Whoa okay hold on. Breaking news
Breaking news
That looks like about 30 years old
So Seinfeld what did you just find out?
So there's an article describing
A 1996 event
Where Bob Dylan
Meets Prince Charles and is
Seated next to him
This is part of a
So the Prince of Wales has a youth oriented
Charity founded in 76
To help vulnerable young people get their lives
On track. There was an event
Where it was Dylan
Roger Daltrey, Pete Townsend
Ringo Starr, Eric Clapton
Ronnie Wood for a concert
In Royal Park
All British people. Mostly Englishmen
Except for Bob. Quote "Sometime during the day
Dylan had the opportunity to meet the Prince
Backstage. An unsmiling
Shade wearing Dylan along with Rolling Stones guitarist
Ronnie Wood greeted the Prince
Also in a star studded photo op
Dylan was sat directly next to Prince
Charles. The pair can even be seen
Exchanging a few words in the video
Below although the exact transcript
Is unclear. A mysterious moment
We'll never know what words were spoken between them
Mr. Dylan
I quite enjoyed
Dignity
Of your greatest hits volume 3
The line about my
Father is quite humorous
Quite perceptive there Mr.
Bob. I also feel like same with
Robert Hunter and the dead I always
Can't help but clock moments when
These lyricists and songwriters
Who are so all American
And so like their whole world is like
In the American
Mythical place
Anytime they like step out
Just like talk about the British Royal Family
The same way as I've said many times on the show
I think. The only
Grateful Dead song that takes place in England
Is Scarlet Begonias
Anyway, Dignity
Great song. And again
Like I can't fully explain it but somehow
The logic of putting Dignity on his greatest hits
Volume 3 makes sense. I really feel
Like there's something about this where I'm getting
A sense of like Bob Dylan's
Worldview in 94. He wanted
You to hear Changing of the Guard. He wanted
You to hear Groom Still Waiting at the Altar. He wanted
You to hear Dignity and Joker Man. Like somehow
That was reflecting his
Where he was at
The song after Dignity
I guess he's played this live a lot but again
I feel like most people outside of real
Dylan heads don't know this. What's your familiarity
With this one Jake Silvio? I don't have
A lot of familiarity with this one
This was new to me when I
Listened to Greatest Hits Volume 3
The other day. When you threw on V3?
It was new to me. So this is Silvio
So this is off
Down in the groove
Which came out in '88
Another pretty poorly received album
Love that mandolin
Yeah and the sound of this. Well Jake you might
Have already looked this up. I don't know but it came out
In '88. Can you think of any records
From roughly in this time period that this
Sounds like?
In the Dark? Yes
Yes because doesn't this sound
So much like an In the Dark? Yeah
Or even a Built to Last type song
Because it's like
I feel like this is when like the. Maybe more Built to Last
Which are the
Last two Grateful Dead albums
For anybody who's been living under a rock
But like
Because I feel like this era like Built to Last
And stuff. The late 80s were when some
Of the 60s guys
Well the Dead had sat out most of the 80s
But when some of the late 60s guys had finally figured out
How to like tastefully use
Some light 80s production techniques
But keep it kind of light and bouncy
Yeah a little like Steve Winwood
Vibes too. Yeah it's like
Back in the high life kind of vibe. Yeah totally
Where it's like the best mix of
80s recording techniques with
Rootsy Bon
Or even I mean honestly. The show. Even
Oh Bruce Hornsby. Oh yeah
But he was a younger dude so he had that
He had more insight. That's true
In some of the old heads. But I would
Even say like Graceland has a touch
Of that. Like just because he has like
The Zydeco song on it where
But one cool thing about Silvio. So not only
Does it remind reminiscent of
The last two Grateful Dead records. This song
Was co-written by Robert Hunter. Oh wow
And on backup
Vocals on this song. Jerry
Bob and Brent
Well they were about to go tour
Yeah so they were about to do the Dylan
The Dead tour. So this is almost like
The smallest little taste we could get
Of if they had made a studio album
Together. Dylan and the Dead. It might have sounded
Like this. His voice sounds so strong here though
Where I feel like I don't know
Maybe it's the recording of it
But that Dylan and the Dead
Just he sounds so bad. I mean
His voice doesn't sound nearly as
Strong and this is way within the ear
Yeah maybe. Well it's live and
I wish Jerry was playing guitar on this
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh that'd be
Oh yeah.
Jerry would have torn
It up on this. I mean we need it
Also the name Silvio just makes me think
Of The Sopranos
This one could have been
On Desire. Kind of. The song
Writing. Oh yeah yeah right. Yeah with the
70s production. Totally. Silvio
Silver and gold
Yeah I've never heard this
One Down on the Groove. It's one
That's oft referenced on the Jokerman pod
Do they like it? Oh yeah
I mean the whole Jokerman
Mindset is just like
We've all heard the 60s stuff a million times. We're not gonna talk
About that. Right. Let's go deep on
Knocked Out, Loaded and Down on the
Groove. Down on the Groove
But I've
This is one of those albums I still have never cracked
Maybe Silvio's your way in
I also do kind of love. I think it is
One. I think it's pretty cool
A cool element of Bob too
Is that like he's one of the best songwriters
And lyricists of all time
But he would just like write with other people
Every now and then and
You know famously on Desire
He wrote with that guy Jacques Levy
And they wrote these like epic stories together
Later we'll hear Brownsville Girl which he
Co-wrote with the playwright and actor Sam Shepard
Oh I didn't realize that. Yeah. Okay
I didn't. And then. But then Silvio it's cool
It's like Bob. For Bob Dylan
And Robert Hunter to link up
That's for a certain type
Of fan that's like Watch the Throne
Yeah no that's too heavy
That's
Coming together. And then they wrote together
Alley and Foreman. Yeah
And then
They did it again like in
The 2000s on a much
Later album. A Bob record or
Yeah yeah it's the one with
Duquesne Whistle
Yeah yeah that's Tempest. Oh yeah
They linked up again on Tempest
So the two Bob and Robert
Together
So we're realizing
That it's gonna take a bit
Longer to get through all of Bob Dylan's greatest
It's Fine 3 so we're gonna spill a little bit of it
Into the next episode. Don't worry we'll talk about
Other stuff too. It won't be all Bob
Well. Well
Famous last words
We'll make sure there's some flights of fancy but
I do think for the TC head
Especially the people getting a little
Burned out on the corporate food history
This is exactly what the doctor
Ordered. I know for a fact that
At least I'm thinking at least 25
To 60% of TC heads
Are casual Bob Dylan fans
Who need a way into the later stuff
Nobody's ever said that
Nobody's ever asked for it and yet
I have that feeling. Where to begin
Well we got you folks. We got you folks
Two part TC extravaganza
This is what Time Crisis is all about. Bob Dylan
Volume 3. Greatest Hits
Two parter. Volume 3
Anyway so we'll play one more song on this
Episode but you know
Join us in two weeks
To talk more
BDGHV3
That's Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 3
My favorite Bob Dylan album
*laughs*
Just imagine that
Story like in some country that never had Bob Dylan
Records and this is just like the first album anybody
Heard and it's like man I always liked that album
That he made. Greatest
It's all over the place but it's a cool record
Anyway so this is like a pretty classic
Just like pretty Bob Dylan song. It almost reminds me
Of like Randy Newman or something
Do you know this one Jake? Oh yeah
So this one you're totally familiar with
Yeah I know Oh Mercy pretty well. You're an Oh Mercy head? Yeah
So he threw this one on Ring Them Bells
Yeah this is a really pretty one
Yeah that side B of Oh Mercy is
Mmm
That's a real nice frame
Yeah so Randy Newman's playing
Yeah I can hear that
So is the bride
Bride and groom man
I think you're right on your theory
On how he put this together
Like there's a lot of lyrical
Themes that weave in and out
Right. Cause he could have put on like Most of the
Time or Political World
Yes. On this record
This is a bit of a deeper
Real album cut
Yeah
Sun's going down upon the sacred cow
That Daniel Lanois
Atmosphere
For the poor man's son
Ring them bells
So the world will know that
God is one
For the shepherds asleep
Where the willows weep
And the mountains
Are filled with
Lost sheep
Ring them bells
For the blind
And the deaf
Ring them bells
For all of us
Who are led
Ring them bells
For the chosen
Few
Who will judge the many
When the game
Is through
Ring them bells
For the time
That flies
For the child that cries
When
Innocence dies
Ring them bells
St. Catherine
What's up with St. Catherine?
What's he talking about St. Catherine?
From the fortress
For the lilies that bloom
Catherine of Siena
St. Catherine, a lay member of the
Dominican Order, was a mystic, activist
And author who had great influence
On the Italian literature and Catholic Church
I think Bob's a real history head
Oh yeah, totally
Early Roman Kings
That's a song I definitely heard about
From Jokerman Pod
What album is that on?
You caught me on the spot here, I'm not sure
It's the same one with Duquesne Whistle
Oh, Tempest
Have you listened to Tempest, the song?
No, I made like a mental note after listening to
Jokerman, I was like, I'm gonna go deep on Tempest
Maybe after we, next episode, when we finish
Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits, Volume 3
We dive into Tempest
And hopefully this time crisis will just become
Jokerman
We're just gonna steal their thunder, I mean, they've moved on
Yeah, they've moved on to Velvet Underground, so we'll just start doing
Um
And you know, we'll pay, with all due respect
We'll say like, you know, when we list
The materials that the
Avid listener needs to understand
The episode, we'll say, you know
Listen to the Bob Dylan album Tempest
Check out these five Jokerman pods
Read these books
We recommend all of that as you listen to the
episode. Well, let's go out on Early Roman
Kings, cause this is like some Bob
Blues
That's right
Alright, we'll be back to finish
Greatest Hits, Volume 3
Remember, this song is not on Greatest Hits, Volume 3
But Bob is a history buff
And maybe you didn't know that he wrote
A song called Early Roman Kings
In the 2000s. Now you do
Alright, talk soon. Peace
Dive in the specs
And
Blaze in the rails
Nail in the coffins
In
Time passing tails
Fly away little bird
Fly away
Flap your wings
Fly by night
Like the
Early Roman Kings
Time Crisis
With Ezra Koenig
NIGGER!
View on TCU Wiki | Download Episode | Download CSV | Download Transcript