Episode 180: BDGHV3P2
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Time Crisis, back again.
Today, we complete our epic journey into Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 3.
But don't worry, if you're not a Bob-head, there's so much more.
We'll also be talking about Chad Michael Murray, All For One,
Lisa Loeb, and Brownsville Girl on
Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
They passed me by, all of those great romances
They were a threat, robbing me of my rightful chances
But picture clear, everything seemed so easy
And so I dealt to the blow, when a bus had to go
Now it's different, I want you to know
One of us is crying, one of us is lying
Leave it on me, babe
Time Crisis, back again.
And this is part 2 of our BDGHV 3 special.
That's Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 3.
I imagine after the last episode, the word has spread far and wide
that for all the people dealing with the anxiety and the psychic pain
of not feeling like they had a way, a path forward in their life
an open door, an open window into the late career work of Bob Dylan
we're here to tell you that Bob has a remedy for that, and that's his Greatest Hits Volume 3.
We handpicked these songs in 1994 to give you a taste of it.
Really, this is mid-period.
It's really mid-period. And I think it's important to find a way into the Bob Dylan mid-period
because the late period is so much more celebrated.
You know, Time Out of Mind won a Grammy, went platinum and all this stuff
and then Murder Most Foul, it was talked about everywhere from Time Crisis to NPR.
And it did very well on the digital rock sales chart.
It did better than a lot of rock songs on the digital rock sales chart.
He wasn't even trying.
So anyway, that's all to say that Bob had his late period renaissance where
and I think this happens a lot, even forget about the actual work, you just look at an artist's age
and you're kind of like, alright, whenever they started
they started in their teens, their early 20s, even their late 20s
the 20s maybe could get diced into the 30s
but certainly the 20s plus or minus a few years is often an artist's classic period.
Even if you think they started doing better work later, it's always going to be hard to beat culturally, vibe-wise
the early stuff, understandably.
And then at some point, there's going to be the middle period
where a lot of people do it well, some people might even record their best material
but it's still the middle period.
The middle of anything is often underappreciated.
And then the artist will come around the corner and at some point they'll become
the kind of like, elder statesman, the OG, the icon.
I think there might be something about it inherent just to like a human life
where a lot of people don't really know what to do with themselves between, I don't know, 35 and 60.
I mean, that's the classic era of the midlife crisis, right?
People who are young and then there's something else after.
And they're like, "I'm not young anymore and I'm kind of confused. Where's my life going?
Did I miss my last opportunity? Do I have to change something?"
And then I feel like eventually you're 60, 65, 70.
You got to chill out a little bit because you're old.
Hopefully.
Hopefully. Maybe you got grandkids. Maybe your hair is gray.
You know what I mean?
Just some of those questions about like, "Who am I and what am I doing?"
Have been answered for you by Father Time.
Even when you look at like some people...
Father Time.
Father Time had another idea.
You're stuck in the middle.
You're stuck in the middle. Don't know what to do.
Father Time's got plans for you.
What you're really looking for is dignity.
So on this episode, we're going to go back and listen to everything we already did on the last episode.
Starting with dignity.
Now I think middle-aged people have a better sense of how to dress.
Partially because middle age as a category has almost been obliterated.
People stay in this like vaguely post-college vibe for their whole lives.
But I think back in the day, people, you know, somebody would be like 45.
They wouldn't know how to dress anymore.
Because they feel too young just to be an old man.
And they'd feel too old to be trendy.
What do you do with yourself?
I've never known how to dress.
When I was 25, I certainly didn't know how to dress.
Now I'm 45.
Still don't know.
I don't have a clue.
Well, you got your own style.
If you want to call it that.
Well, maybe in some ways because you've always had a laid-back style.
T-shirt and jeans.
New balances.
Running sneakers.
Running sneakers.
Maybe a fleece.
Probably a free shirt I got from a friend's band.
Yep.
Well, you can never go wrong with that.
Anyway, all I'm saying is that the middle of anything can often be awkward.
Especially with the musicians.
A lot of times the middle work is appreciated much more when you hear the late work.
Because suddenly it's a sandwich.
Yep.
I was thinking about that when we were reading the Chris Gauw review.
He probably already thought of Bob as old.
Sure.
And way past his prime in 1978.
Yeah, 1978, street legal.
I was like, I wish he would do a Robert Chris Gauw revisited.
Right.
Yeah, because when you listen to Joker, man, you're listening to these guys who are, how old are they?
Like late 20s, early 30s, something like that.
Something.
They're Zoomer millennial types.
Yeah, they're taking it all in.
I mean, just like me or any of us.
They're taking all this work in as one big body.
They're not somebody who just listened to, obsessively listened to Blood on the Tracks and Desire.
And then is like, oh, I can't wait to hear Street Legal.
And then you take it home and you're like, saxophone?
They're not experiencing that.
It's all there.
Yep.
His whole career has been flattened out.
You're not experiencing it in real time.
So you can look at it so differently.
And also, I do think on the last episode, we said three is always been considered.
I'm not totally sure why, but three has been considered to be a magic number and a mystical number.
In numerology and the Holy Trinity.
And then in that Schoolhouse Rock song.
Actually, I want to throw that on for a second.
See, I told you it wasn't going to be all Bob Dylan.
Because I was playing this the other day for my family.
There's a line in it.
A man and a woman had a little baby that makes three in the family.
Okay, so this is the original.
And also, I don't know who's playing on it.
It's like a great drummer.
It's just a great, tasteful '70s recording.
Three is a magic number.
Yes, it is.
You know this, right, Jake?
No.
Oh, this is like Schoolhouse Rock from the '70s.
Don't know it.
Somewhere in the ancient mystic trinity.
You've heard the Blind Melon version, right?
Oh, yeah. Blind Melon covered in the '90s.
Has a magic number.
The past and the present and the future.
Faith and hope and charity.
The heart and the brain and the body.
A little bit of a Larry Norman vibe.
Oh, yeah, totally.
Has a magic number.
It takes three legs to make a tripod or to make a table stand.
It takes three wheels to make a vehicle called a tricycle.
Every triangle has three corners.
Every triangle has three sides.
No more, no less.
You don't have to guess.
When it's three, you can see it's a magic number.
Reminds me of Mighty Quinn, the Eskimo.
Oh, yeah. Bob.
Yes, they did.
They had three in the family.
Has a magic number.
Mmm, yeah, tasty.
Three, six, nine.
Twelve, fifteen, eighteen.
Twenty-one, twenty-four, twenty-seven.
Thirty.
Bass player going on.
Three, six, nine.
Twelve, fifteen, eighteen.
Twenty-one, twenty-four, twenty-seven.
Thirty.
Now the multiples of three come up three times in each set of ten.
In the first ten, you get three, six, nine.
And in the teens ten, it's twelve, fifteen, and eighteen.
And in the twenties, you get a twenty-one, twenty-four, twenty-seven.
And it comes out even on thirties.
Now multiply backwards from three times ten.
Three times ten is thirty.
Three times nine is twenty-seven.
Three times eight is twenty-four.
This is trippy.
Yeah, it's nice being a kid, taking this down as a kid.
What?
Three times four is twelve.
And three times three is nine.
And three times two is six.
And three times one is three, of course.
Now take the pattern once more.
Three, six, nine.
Twelve, fifteen, eighteen.
Three, six, mafia got their name.
Thirty.
Now multiply from ten backwards.
How funny it would be if this wasn't made for a children's cartoon.
It's like, this weird dude named Bob Dorough, he dropped this single in the seventies.
Nobody really knows much about him.
He was from Indianapolis, moved out to L.A. in '69.
Two is six.
And three times one.
What is it?
Three!
Yeah.
That's a magic number.
A man and a woman had a little baby.
Yes, they did.
They had three in the family.
That's a magic number.
Also, clearly this is a kind of hippie, counterculture dude who knows cool, weird, countercultural music.
And I also love the idea that somebody was like, "Can you do a song about the number three?"
You know, just to teach the kid.
Because I guess this is from a special specifically called "Multiplication Rock."
So they probably assigned this guy a bunch of the numbers.
And they were like, "Oh yeah, do a song for three.
And make sure you have some part that especially gets into the times tables."
Because that's like, especially in the '70s, that's what kids gotta know.
They gotta go, "Three, six, nine, twelve, fifteen, eighteen."
Help them remember that.
And he's probably like, "Yeah, yeah, okay. What's my weigh in?"
And he's like, "Oh, let me see. Three is a magic number."
You know, just like a cute way to talk about the number three.
But then you listen to some of the other parts, and it almost is on some weird hippie numerology sh*t.
It's not just like, "Three is a fun number."
I think he really believes three is a magic number.
Because he's talking about the mystery of life.
"A man and a woman had a little baby. That makes three in the family."
He does have like a real haunting voice, in a way.
I mean, the whole thing. What did he say in the beginning?
"Faith and hope and charity."
And actually, I don't know this stuff well, but when you get into a lot of weird mysticism, like Kabbalah,
a lot of it is kind of about math and numbers.
"Somewhere in the ancient mystic trinity."
"In the ancient mystic trinity."
Mom! What's the ancient mystic trinity?
What are you watching?
There is something about three. I don't really understand this stuff,
but I can understand from some weird, esoteric, philosophical point of view.
Three does represent something very interesting, because you have one.
The one indivisible. Then it breaks into two.
Now you have contrast for the first time ever.
One versus two. Two different things.
And then you have three, which is like, breaks the binary.
It is an important number, even just for how we think about stuff.
I mean, three dimensions.
Three dimensions, right? We live in a three-dimensional world.
Three is a magic number.
So anyway, three is a very magic number.
And you look at stories and lives and narratives as being beginning, middle, and end.
You see the way that three contextualizes everything.
And anyway, you think about making a sandwich.
You could picture somebody, you watch somebody make a sandwich,
they've got a really nice piece of bread.
Mmm, that looks like a really well-made, toasted piece of French bread.
They start putting some turkey on it.
Where are you going with this?
Then you put another piece. Oh, it's a sandwich.
It's a closed sandwich.
[Laughter]
I see a unity.
Anyway, yeah, so this is Bob's middle career.
And I think it's important to kind of recontextualize it.
So this is his volume, Greatest Hits Volume 3.
I wonder if he'll do a Volume 4.
He should.
Yeah.
1991 to 2022.
He probably has a lot of unreleased material for his Greatest Hits.
Yeah, I mean, Immortal Most Foul had been unreleased.
It had been sitting on the shelf for like 10 years.
He'll drop something like that.
Yeah, I could picture Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 4,
Track 1, Early Roman Kings.
Track 2, a song nobody-- an unreleased song.
Track 3, maybe that song from Wonder Boys.
Like, arguably, like, kind of, things have changed.
Like, oh, kind of it.
All right, but let's get back into Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 3.
Last time we left off with Ring Them Bells,
which we didn't catch this at the time,
but I do have to point out that he says "sweet Martha."
That's deep.
So the next song on Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 3.
Now, this one legitimately would belong on a traditional Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits
because this was like, I think, somewhat of a hit single.
"Gotta Serve Somebody."
This is off his first Christian album, Slow Train Comin'.
Although, the more I engage with Bob's work, the middle and the late period,
it's funnier and funnier for me to think of his fans or critics or peers
being, like, scandalized by him, quote-unquote, "going Christian"
just because Bob Dylan's music, from the jump,
is so indebted to religious music, spirituals, gospel.
So many of his lyrics deal with, you know--
The Bible.
The Bible and these, like, major archetypes that come from religion and stuff.
It's not like the Rolling Stones went Christian.
He already had songs that kind of you could interpret through a Christian lens.
And the idea that at some point he might commit himself a little more
to that particular strain of traditional--
It's just not that surprising.
And then, you know, you hear--
So if this was, like, the first song you heard from his Christian period,
"Gotta Serve Somebody,"
if anything, I'd be more, like, shocked by the music or something.
Yeah, more like kind of this--
kind of steely Dan, light funk.
Just like, "Huh."
♪ You may be an ambassador to England or France ♪
♪ You may like to give a-- ♪
Yeah, this was peaked at number 24--
That's a hit.
--on the Billboard Hot 100 Singles Chart.
And this is '79, so correct me if I'm wrong,
they did not have the Rock Digital Sales Chart--
You are correct.
--back then. Okay.
♪ Gonna have to serve somebody ♪
♪ Yes, indeed, you're gonna have to-- ♪
I love this record.
I love this kind of light touch.
But people hate on this, too?
Um, historically, yes, for sure.
It was a commercial success.
♪ But you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
♪ Maybe a rock and roll addict, prancing on the streets ♪
♪ Money, drugs at your command, women in a cage ♪
♪ You may be a businessman or some high-degree thief ♪
♪ They may call you doctor or they may call you chief ♪
♪ But you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
♪ Yes, you are, you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
This is the Dimmy D where he's got the refrain,
"Gotta serve somebody."
And then he just goes through every example he can think of.
Right.
You may be a big shot or you might be low on the totem pole,
but regardless, there's some real funny ones in this one.
♪ You may be a young trooper, you might be a young Turk ♪
♪ You may be the head of some big TV network ♪
♪ You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or lame ♪
♪ You may be living in another country under another name ♪
That one always sounds so familiar.
♪ You may be living in another country under another name ♪
You can change your identity, leave for the U.S.,
but you can't escape.
You're gonna have to serve somebody.
♪ It may be the devil or it may be the Lord ♪
♪ But you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
There's one coming up where he's talking about you wearing rags or silk
or drink whiskey or milk.
[laughs]
♪ You may be living on a home, might be living in a mansion ♪
♪ You might live in a dome ♪
♪ You may own guns and you may even own tanks ♪
♪ You may be somebody's landlord, you may even own banks ♪
♪ But you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
I love that.
♪ Serve somebody ♪
Bob's been talking about the military-industrial complex
since the early '60s.
Masters of War.
That is legit an ongoing theme in this work.
Yeah.
♪ But you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
♪ Serve somebody ♪
♪ You may be a preacher, preacher of spiritual pride ♪
♪ You may be a city councilman taking bribes on the side ♪
♪ Maybe working in a barber shop, you may know how to cut hair ♪
♪ You may be somebody's mistress, maybe somebody's heir ♪
♪ But you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
I like that he rhymed "hair" with "air."
Yeah, somebody's heir.
♪ You're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
♪ Serve somebody ♪
♪ Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord ♪
♪ But you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
♪ Serve somebody ♪
Yeah, I feel like people probably just reacted more to the music.
Maybe they couldn't understand it at first.
Silk.
♪ Might like to drink whiskey ♪
♪ Might like to drink beer ♪
Wasn't he also sort of out of--
♪ Might like to eat cow pie ♪
Wasn't he sort of out of public favor also at this point in his career?
Well, yeah, this is right after Street Legal.
Yeah, this is after Street Legal.
So people are just ready to hate.
Yeah, ready to hate Bob.
But I guess the real people bought the record.
I'm pretty sure he played this on SNL too.
This is like a perfect early SNL song.
♪ Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord ♪
♪ But you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
♪ You may call me Telly ♪
♪ Or you may call me J. ♪
I think I put "Slow Train Come In," the song, on the "Old Wisdom" playlist
that we made during the pandemic.
♪ You may call me RJ ♪
♪ You may call me anything ♪
♪ You may call me RJ ♪
♪ You may call me anything ♪
♪ No matter what you say ♪
♪ You're still gonna have to serve somebody ♪
♪ Serve somebody ♪
Or the song "Wanna Grammy."
♪ Yes, you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
♪ Serve somebody ♪
♪ Well, it may be the devil ♪
♪ And it may be the Lord ♪
♪ But you're gonna have to serve somebody ♪
Also, like, if you're a Bob fan and you like his weird, playful, mystical,
inscrutable takes on the world,
if this is his Christian phase,
he's applying the exact same lens to Christianity.
'Cause, like, when you really think about this song,
when you really think, like, "What does it mean?"
I guess you could interpret it as--
I don't think this is the case, but maybe some people interpret it as,
"Oh, what, so you're saying if I don't follow your specific religion,
then I'm satanic?
It's either your way or the highway?
It's either God or the devil?"
But, you know, you're thinking, like, the Bob worldview,
it's way weirder than that.
It's just like, well, every action creates a series of events.
One way or another, you exist in this weird world.
He's not saying who you're serving.
He's not saying, "This is the Lord's way."
Right.
"This is the true way, and this is what Christianity means."
He's like, "You might own tanks, and you might own banks,
and you could use those to serve the Lord or the devil."
But you're going to serve somebody.
Basically, he's saying--
Christ is going to--
And when he's also saying you can't opt out,
that one way or another, your actions will spill out,
which in a weird way is way more like Eastern or something.
Well, yeah, I mean, as someone that is not a Christian,
I still find a lot of insight, and it also has a very humorous, light touch, too,
which I appreciate.
There is some real insight, and it really gives you something to chew on.
Yeah, totally.
Because, yeah, however you want to say it,
the bill's going to come due, karmic justice,
whatever lens you want to look at it through.
And whether it's just even just like there is no God or devil,
but you still have to serve the people around you, your friends, your family.
Right.
There's always something.
Yeah, and that while you're here, everything you do has a ripple effect.
And even if you think you can move to another country or something
and get away from that rat race of businessmen and guys own banks
and things like that, you're still in this world, you know?
Yeah.
You're still here in the physical world.
Apparently, John Lennon was very offended by that song,
John Lennon having quite a different relationship to religion than Bob Dylan,
you know, when you think about "Imagine."
Maybe he's the rock and roller prancing on the stage that he took offense to.
Maybe.
God is a concept by which we--
What is the lyric?
Measure our pain.
Right.
I never fully understood the song "God."
It is a good song.
It went on famously in "Imagine."
Imagine no religion.
But I guess John was very offended by "Serve Somebody."
I think the late '70s, I've always been under the impression,
were kind of a dark period for Lennon
before kind of feeling reinvigorated and recording "Double Fantasy,"
just kind of like laying low.
There used to be these tapes on YouTube,
these like home tapes he made of him just talking to himself
and just like seeming like in a really dark place
and feeling kind of competitive and out of the loop and weird.
Anyway, I guess he made a song.
I guess it's only a home recording called "Serve Yourself,"
which was like his rebuttal.
I've never heard this.
Came out on a box set.
I'm sorry to tell you.
You say you found Jesus.
He's the only one.
You say you found Buddha.
Sitting in the sun.
You say you found Mohammed.
Well, to the east.
You say you found Krishna.
Dancing in the street.
Well, there's too much cockamamie,
too much cockadoodledoo.
You know there's something missing in this God Almighty's tomb.
You gotta reach your mother.
Don't forget your mother, Bob.
You got to serve yourself.
Ain't nobody gonna do it for you.
You got to serve yourself.
Ain't nobody gonna do it for you.
Well, you may believe in devils.
You may believe in laws.
But you know you're gonna have to serve yourself.
Wow, it's a direct rebuttal.
I'll take "serve yourself" over this any day.
You're gonna serve somebody?
Yeah, I'll serve somebody over this any day.
Well, I guess to be fair to John Lennon,
I almost feel bad.
Maybe he never meant for anybody to hear this.
This just clearly sounds like him on a tape recorder.
Yeah, yeah.
I wonder if we'll ever get the equivalent of a streaming box set
from some artist who died young and it's just like,
and here's 2,000 voice memos from their phone.
The family.
Oh my God.
And you just listen to it and one's like just 10 seconds,
just like, "And, and, and, and, and, and."
Unfortunately, I feel we're already pretty close to that.
Yeah.
It's like you could see like Juice WRLD's family
just being like, "Here you go."
Under no circumstances may my voice memos
be released in a compilation.
Too much monkey business around here, honey.
All right, he's just horsing around.
John Lennon, also a world-class songwriter.
Clearly he didn't think enough of that song
to like put it on Double Fantasy.
We can't really judge.
Yeah, I mean, also John Lennon,
there's like a strain of some songs that he did in the '70s
when he kind of would get into his kind of,
like get a little too topical.
When he was trying to do his like angry political songs,
just like never, his best ones I always thought
were like either really personal
or kind of like vibey psychedelic.
Or even in the case of "Imagine,"
kind of just poetic and stuff.
You know, like it's cool that "Imagine" is just like,
just imagine this, imagine that,
that it's just not like, you know,
obviously it would be so dated if it was just like,
♪ Imagine no Richard Nixon ♪
Like, ♪ No Vietnam ♪
Yeah, right.
God, who knows?
There could have been an early version of that.
And there's something about this too
where I'm just kind of like, who knows?
I picture late '70s,
John just like kind of feeling out of it,
out of the loop and weird.
And one of his heroes/peers, Bob Dylan,
dropping this and he just kind of almost like,
maybe just had a knee jerk reaction like,
"Oh, oh what?"
So-
Just kind of eye rolling the-
Yeah.
I mean, I wonder how foregrounded
in the media narrative
and like the album cycle press in 1978,
the Christianity thing was.
I think it was pretty-
I think it was pretty foregrounded
'cause even before the album came out,
there were like little clips
about him using certain language.
Like he was in a, there was a deposition.
He was deposed because he was being sued
by Patty Valentine from the hurricane.
'Cause he talks about Patty Valentine throughout,
who's a real woman who was a witness
in the murder that the hurricane was falsely accused of.
And so anyway, Patty Valentine,
here's her name in a Bob Dylan song
and then she's suing him.
I don't know if she really had grounds or whatever,
but apparently there was a line in the deposition
where the, as I understand it,
are often like very hostile moments
where you got somebody's lawyer
just trying to poke hole.
And somebody said something to you like,
that Patty Valentine's lawyer
was trying to like rile Bob up
and said something like,
"So you must be a very wealthy man, Mr. Dylan."
And almost like Bob Marley style, he said,
"You mean my treasure on the earth?
"Well."
And there's something like that.
Amazing.
And so I feel like I was reading something
that said somehow that aspect of the deposition
was like reported
and already maybe people had seen him at church or something.
So there's this thing,
they hear Bob Dylan talking about money,
referring to it as his treasure on the earth.
And I think there was a buzz where people were like,
"Is Dylan a Christian now?"
And then he dropped "Slow Chain Coming."
Also, this is happening post his divorce.
I think there's a lot.
I can't remember at the time,
I certainly know now people being dubious of his intentions
because he's also investing in a church.
Is he trying?
You know, the same way Kanye doing his Sunday service,
people were going, "What's your intention here?
"Are there tax write-offs?"
As always, Bob and Kanye, so much resonance.
Yeah, parallel tracks.
Parallel tracks.
Yeah, yeah, so I could see some people-
Is he divesting his money
or is he trying to protect some of his assets
because he's being sued by his ex?
Oh, that's interesting.
Famously, you know,
I'd turned his back on like the pious folk music scene.
So I could see people who were like
already kind of felt burned by him in the mid '60s.
Like the real folkies, the real folk heads
have been like, basically, after he plugged in,
they saw Bob's like earnest anti-war folk stuff
as like somehow insincere.
And I think he did do,
I don't know if he overtly said it,
but I think lines and songs and probably press he did.
I think people are also aware that he, in some ways,
was not only changing stylistically when he went electric,
but also saying, in a way,
it makes us think about a lot of weird conversations
that anger and tension that's floating around at this moment.
I think people did feel like he was also saying,
"And you know what?
"This kind of like finger-pointing progressive politics,
"I'm done with it."
'Cause I did read, there was an article,
there's a New Yorker profile from like '64 of Dylan,
and they spent some time with him in the studio.
And at that point, he specifically,
so this is after "Blown in the Wind"
and "The Hard Rain Ain't Gonna Fall,"
and he specifically says,
"I'm getting away from that finger-pointing (beep)."
And you can, on the one hand, that's an artistic choice,
but you can also imagine,
at a very tense political moment in the '60s,
to have this guy that people pin their hopes and dreams on,
saying, "Enough with the finger-pointing."
There might've been people who were like,
"What do you mean, Bob?
"We need more finger-pointing."
And also, if you're saying
you're done with finger-pointing your music,
what are you saying?
Are you saying that we're just like angry progressives?
- Well, he's gonna say,
"I'm gonna serve myself, and I'm an artist.
"And I'm gonna do what I wanna do, and go to hell."
So I can see those people,
so then he's like smash cut 12 years later,
he's a Christian.
- And that's like the final indignity for those people.
- And people are just like, "What are you doing, dude?"
- Right, 'cause that, yeah, maybe in their worldview,
if they're kind of a new age people,
yeah, Christianity would strike them
as regressive or something.
- Yeah?
- And inherently conservative.
And I do have to say that, Bob,
the John Lennon song, you can tell that,
well, clearly they weren't having a direct conversation
or something, but you actually, like you said,
you dig in to serve somebody,
it's kind of weird, esoteric,
you could interpret it a lot of different ways.
And then the John Lennon song opens with,
"You say you love Jesus, and he's the only one."
And you could imagine Bob being like, "I didn't say that."
- In fact, I wanna point out,
while there's so much specifically Christian imagery
in the album, that song specifically
is just, you gotta serve somebody.
It's actually just a really,
like there's, no matter who you are,
if you're rich or poor, if you're famous or not famous,
you're gonna have to serve somebody.
It could be any God.
Like that, of all the songs,
that specifically feels just the most,
just sort of a larger spiritual, religious,
you know, higher power understanding.
- Yeah, and actually when you think about it,
he doesn't say, "You're either serving God
"or you're serving the devil,"
which would sound, I could imagine to some of you,
it would sound like you're either with us or against us.
What he's saying is way closer maybe
to an early solo Lennon type thing,
where he's saying, "Might be God, might be devil,
"who knows what it might be, but no matter what, there's--"
- This is bigger than us.
- And I guess actually when you think about
the end of God, the Lennon song,
when he's going, which is pretty wild actually.
- I don't believe in Zimmerman.
- And he says, "I don't believe in Zimmerman."
Great sounding record, but at the end.
(siren blaring)
♪ I don't believe in Gita ♪
♪ I don't believe in yoga ♪
- In yoga?
- Dude, Elvis would do some proof.
♪ I don't believe in kings ♪
- Don't believe in kings?
What about early Roman kings?
♪ I don't believe in Elvis ♪
- Oh, shots fired.
♪ I don't believe in Zimmerman ♪
- Zimmerman.
♪ I don't believe in Beatles ♪
- I love how serious he is.
- When he drops the Beatles.
- It's like, "In me, yoga with me."
Beautiful song though.
- Beautiful song, yeah.
And two different schools of thought
because you can tell John's like,
in a way, John is like a more passionate, angry dude.
- Yeah, he's more serious in a way.
Even though Bob's the one that's like,
making a Christian record.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, totally.
- Bob has a lighter touch.
- Bob has a much lighter touch.
And I guess it's not hard to understand
that like, Bob always, he's a solo artist.
He always got to be his,
he always got to be the joker man.
From the jump, he got to have that mix of humor,
seriousness, old, new, whatever.
Whereas John was in maybe the greatest of all time,
but still in some ways, a boy band.
And he maybe, he had to like,
fell he had to swing between extremes, you know?
Whereas like, Bob always kind of
had the balance dialed in himself.
Yeah, it's interesting to think about this like weird,
I wonder if Bob Dylan and John Lennon
interacted much in the seventies.
But like probably Bob--
- I gotta think they did.
- I can imagine Bob Dylan hearing the song "God"
and being, and kind of rolling his eyes.
- Totally.
- Because it is so serious.
♪ I don't believe in believe ♪
And actually, maybe John took it personally.
So nine years later,
here's this song,
'cause you can imagine Bob Dylan hearing this song
and just thinking like,
you're like a naive little boy, man.
Oh, well, you don't believe in any of those things?
Oh, well, you throw them away?
That means they disappear.
All you believe in is you and Yoko?
You're still gonna have to serve somebody.
- Good luck with that.
- It may be Yoko or it may be Lord,
but you're gonna have to serve somebody.
- Bob is the older, wiser, big brother joker man.
And maybe John just like, didn't want to admit it,
but 'cause also it's so '70s too.
This is some real like Adam Curtis
century of the self type thing.
But to imagine a guy who made it through the '60s,
you're John.
Understandably, you've been burned in your life
by so many belief systems.
He's probably watched friends take acid
and get obsessed with some specific religion.
Him saying, I don't believe in Gita.
Seems, you know, he just--
- Krishna.
- Yeah, he tried out aspects of Hinduism.
He's probably also throwing a little bit of shade
at George there.
- Yeah.
- I don't believe in Gita like him.
You know, and he probably growing up in England,
maybe he felt burned by Christianity
and clearly he's burned by being a member of the Beatles.
So you can imagine he has so much anguish and anger
and he wants to kind of get off his chest.
But then what he's suggesting as an alternative,
which is very like burned out hippie going into the '70s,
like enough of that (beep)
all I believe in is me and my girlfriend.
In his mind, he's like, he's made this big epic change,
throwing away all these old belief systems.
All I believe in is me and my girlfriend.
This is how we're gonna live and this is gonna work.
And then Bob, the older, wiser one being like,
I'm still gonna serve somebody, man.
You and your girlfriend, that's a belief system.
That's an ideology too.
This is some real, this is an illusion thing.
By throwing away the Beatles and all world religions,
John felt he had finally established
a type of utopian way of thinking
based in an individualistic humanism
centered around himself and his girlfriend, Yoko Ono.
As he believed that this would be the path forward
that would bring him peace.
But this was an illusion.
He still had to serve somebody.
- And then they just go into the intro chords of "Kid A".
(both laughing)
- Start playing.
(both laughing)
- So wait, what year was the Lennon demo tape
that we listened to about "Serve Yourself"?
- I bet it was '79. - I bet it was '79.
- '79, yeah.
- Lennon's worldview didn't shift at all throughout the '70s.
He's still basically rewriting God, which was from 1970.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, from '70.
- So he's just kind of, he's kind of stuck in his--
- If he had lived longer,
if he hadn't been horrifically killed,
it would be interesting to see where he would have ended up
in his 40s and his 50s and stuff,
because he is, I could totally picture
like a later in life Lennon coming around
to a type of Christianity or spirituality.
He just, because he wasn't like,
he wasn't as prolific as Lennon in the '70s.
So yeah, you're right.
He was still kind of in his '70s mode,
which is a little bit bitter about the '60s, whatever.
With "Double Fantasy",
you're starting to hear this dude embracing--
- Feel like starting over. - A new phase of life.
Who's to say what type of song he might have been writing
about God or religion if he was making something in '94?
Who knows? It might've been different.
But yeah, you're right.
At that moment from '70 to '79, kind of like one worldview.
I may have said this on the show back in the day,
but I'd be remiss not to say it again.
"Serve Somebody" has always struck me
as the inspiration for this song.
[upbeat music]
- Oh, yeah. Good call.
- And there is something funny too about, like,
if you were nervous that, like, Bob Dylan
was gonna be a Jesus freak,
and then he kind of comes out with, like,
"We gotta have to serve somebody."
It's very, like, cool and, like,
cosmopolitan and funky.
And weirdly, it makes me think-- this song's about, like, crime.
But it, like, reminds me of the same vibe.
♪ Looking for a Chateau ♪
♪ 21 rules, but one will do ♪
♪
♪ Looking for a Chateau ♪
♪ 21 rules, but one will do ♪
♪ Looking for a Chateau ♪
♪
♪ I don't wanna buy it ♪
- That's a weird reverb on Jerry's voice.
- Yeah.
- It's like a weird double track or something.
♪
♪ I made an old mistake ♪
♪ Walking down the street today ♪
♪
♪ I made an old mistake ♪
♪ Walking down the street today ♪
♪
♪ I didn't wanna be mean about it, but I ♪
♪ I didn't have one good word to say ♪
- Now let's combine them.
Live at Anaheim Stadium.
- This is Dylan and the Dead? - July '87.
This is Dylan and the Dead playing "Goddess Surf's."
Man, they should've just jammed this into West L.A. Fadeway.
♪ West L.A. Fadeway ♪
♪
♪ If I picked it up ♪
♪ Out on my ride ♪
♪ I'd be a conductor ♪
♪ I'm afraid you got a train ♪
♪ Maybe a richer car ♪
- This isn't that bad.
- I'm down.
♪ Maybe living in another country ♪
♪ On another day ♪
♪ But you're gonna serve somebody ♪
♪ Serve somebody ♪
♪ Serve somebody ♪
- It just seems to me slightly flaccid about it or something.
- Well, yeah, it's like, if you look at it in the context
tapes of every Dead show and they threw this on,
you know, just like listening to Dead shows all day,
you'd be like, "All right, oh, cool."
There's something about-- I can picture in 1989
being a young rock fan and seeing the CD at the store.
- Oh, my God, yeah. - Dylan and the Dead.
And you're like, "Uh, yes."
And you buy it and you throw it--
and then you throw it on, "Yes, kind of flaccid. I get it."
- But from my viewpoint today, it's like,
we're gonna get a live "Serve Somebody" with a Jerry solo.
- Yeah. - Okay?
- I'm pretty sure he doesn't rip particularly long solos on this.
♪ Serve somebody ♪
♪ I might be the devil ♪
♪ It might be the Lord ♪
♪ But you're gonna serve somebody ♪
♪ Serve somebody ♪
♪ Come down to me, baby ♪
♪ Don't leave me behind ♪
♪ And aim on your troubles ♪
♪ Or give it to the blind ♪
♪ You might be with your poor ♪
♪ Maybe outside too ♪
♪ Laying on your country ♪
♪ A John Connor girl ♪
♪ But you're gonna serve somebody ♪
♪ You're gonna serve somebody ♪
- I wish they filmed these shows. I'd love to see what it looked--
- Oh, my God. - What it looked like '87.
- There's no footage?
- Oh, Seinfeld found some?
- This is an audio format, but...
- [chuckles]
- All right, we're watching the footage.
- [laughs] - Um, okay.
- I've definitely watched, like, footage of, like,
'87 Anaheim, Bob Weir singing
"When I Paint My Masterpiece."
It might have been a different show.
- ♪ Down to the town ♪
♪ Down on the city ♪
♪ Where the trouble come down ♪
♪ They're gonna serve somebody ♪
♪ Serve somebody ♪
- "Gotta Serve Somebody," a legitimate greatest--
Well, look, they're all legitimate,
but a traditional greatest hit.
Okay, after "Gotta Serve Somebody,"
the next song on Bob Dylan's "Greatest Hits" volume
3--this is also--gets very interesting--
another unreleased song. - Right.
- So this is now two straight-up unreleased songs
that he threw on his "Greatest Hits."
And this one--I'd never heard this
until the past few months.
I've come to understand that this one
is, like, a little legendary,
'cause with the hardcore Dylan fans,
there's a lot of discussion about
a handful of songs that they consider to be late--
or we should say middle-period masterpieces--
that he left off albums,
one of which is "Blind Willie McTell,"
which could have been on Infidels,
in which the band covered, and then he started busting out.
So, you know, a song that a lot of people are like,
"Oh, if he had dropped that on Infidels,
that would have been an all-time record."
And this is another one of them.
This was also recorded with Daniel Lanois for "Oh, Mercy."
And it's pretty wild, because it's--
I've never heard a Bob Dylan song quite like this,
because it's, like, it's very contemporary.
It's a very '89 contemporary-type song.
We were texting about it a couple weeks ago, Jake,
and he said it sounds like "War on Drugs."
Like, there's no way that Adam from "War on Drugs"
is not a fan of this song.
- Yeah, or that whole record. - Right, yeah.
I was texting a little bit with a friend of the show,
- Bruce Hornsby. - As you do.
He was at a restaurant in Virginia, and they were playing "Harmony Hall."
He sent me a video. He's like, "Check this out!"
And I was asking him about--
I was mentioning to him that I'd been listening a lot
to Bob Dylan's "Greatest Hits, Volume 3,"
because I know he played a bit on the album "Under the Red Sky,"
which I know you've been listening to a lot recently.
- I have. - We'll talk about that more later.
And, you know, Bruce has--
I've heard a few amazing Bob Dylan stories from him,
'cause he's been around him on that album and a few times left.
And I just said to-- I was, like, random.
I was like, "It's so cool he puts these, like, unreleased songs
on his 'Greatest Hits.' It's so weird, but kind of, like, awesome."
And I was just like, "You know the song 'Series of Dreams'?"
And he said-- I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this,
but this is the exact type of TC nugget that we love.
And he said, "Oh, yeah, yeah. I know 'Series of Dreams.'
That's an amazing song."
I was like, "You know who showed me that,
who was really excited about that song and showed it to me?
- It was The Boss." - Wow.
Hell of a name drop there.
- And there's something I just, like-- - Bruce on Bruce.
Yeah, Bruce on Bruce.
Next time Hornsby's on, we'll ask him specifically about this.
But I-- So that's, like, the very short version.
But I just love this idea, too, of--
'Cause clearly Bob was checking out Bruce.
You could see his influence on Street Legal.
But I also just love the idea of, like, Bruce being at, like,
driving into the city from Jersey,
hitting up Big Tower Records or something,
just, like, flipping through and just being like,
"Bob, greatest hits, volume three."
Be like, "Eh, probably got all these."
But then he flips around the back and he's like, "Well, hold on a second.
'Series of Dreams.'"
"Series of Dreams." And he buys it, and he, like,
immediately skips through all the ones he knows,
listens to Dignity, and he's, like, solid.
And he's like, "Series of Dreams," and he's just like, "Whoa!
Weird, man. Whoa, interesting."
And enough that it's, like, on his mind that he's, like, you know,
later talking to other rockers, and he's just, like,
hanging out at some benefit, and, like, Hornsby's there,
and they're talking about trading Dylan stories.
And Springsteen's just like, "You ever heard of 'Series of Dreams'?"
Hornsby's like, "What record's that on?"
And Springsteen's like, "Get this, man.
None. It's only on 'Greatest Hits, Volume Three.'"
"So, Bob. So, Bob, from the U.S.--"
And Hornsby's like, "Well, s--t, man. I'll check it out."
Unless I misread that text, and Hornsby was just like, "My boss."
And he was just like, "I took a part-time job."
You know, the mid-'90s was getting out of the Hollywood rat race.
I took a part-time job, and I had a pretty cool boss.
Anyway, check out "Series of Dreams,"
'cause this is exactly the type of song
that the casual Dylan fan needs to know.
For the hardcore Dylan fans, this is, like, classic.
But, you know, the casual listener, like me, didn't know it.
Check it out. "Series of Dreams."
From '89, but--
So, also, it's another outtake from "O Mercy."
"O Mercy," yeah.
So we got two "O Mercy" outtakes.
And apparently, Daniel Lanois was like,
"You gotta open the record with this."
I mean, this is "So You Too" here.
Yeah, "So You Too."
♪ The stinger of a series of dreams ♪
♪ Where nothing comes up to the top ♪
♪ Everything stays down where it's wounded ♪
♪ And comes to a permanent stop ♪
♪ Wasn't thinking of anything specific ♪
♪ Like in a dream where someone wakes up and screams ♪
♪ Nothing too very scientific ♪
Scientific.
♪ Just thinking of a series of dreams ♪
♪ Thinking of a series of dreams ♪
What a different album this could have been.
What is this actually-- it's like dream pop.
Kind of sounds like the Cranberries, or like--
Oh, yeah. Totally.
You can imagine some, like, alternative English band from the '80s.
I mean, it definitely has that Joshua Tree feel.
But, yeah, Cranberries are a really good call.
Bob definitely would have-- although this is kind of before Cranberries,
but Bob definitely would have spent some time with Joshua Tree.
Oh, yeah.
♪ What I see with your eyes ♪
♪ Wasn't making any good sense ♪
He just has nothing remotely in this mode.
I wonder-- yeah, I wonder if he was just like,
"Well, I don't want to have people put on my new record and just think about you too."
You know?
Yeah.
♪ We live in a political world ♪
Right.
It's like--
♪ And we're past inspection ♪
And this one you could really hear him being like,
"Yeah, that's one of the best songs I wrote in that era.
I didn't want to put it on the record, but here you go.
It's one of my greatest hits."
Oh, and then this, like, B section.
♪ The umbrella is for dead ♪
♪ Speak to Luke ♪
♪ The path was paved ♪
♪ And the pride died ♪
Yeah, I mean, like, the strings and stuff, it's so--
so out of character.
♪ From another world ♪
What year is this?
'89.
♪ Just as it was held in ♪
I love that part in the bridge where he says,
"The cards are no good that you're holding
unless they're from another world."
Vibey.
♪ In a world ♪
♪ I was running and in another ♪
There's this great story about Dylan playing
at a concert in Dublin in 1984.
Mm.
And he's got a great group of people playing with him,
some Stones guys and everything.
On the day of the concert, the publication Hot Press
had arranged for a 24-year-old Bono
to interview Dylan backstage.
Whoa.
So they met that night, and then Dylan asked Bono
to come out and sing "Blowing in the Wind" with him.
Whoa.
Bono didn't know the lyrics,
but he still was like, "I'm going up."
So that's the night they met.
Oh, Bob, sorry, I only have "Your Greatest Hits Vol. 2."
Maybe we could do "Watching the River Flow."
♪ The umbrella is for dead ♪
♪
♪ It's dead too ♪
♪ The power of faith ♪
It was all going so well, and then the band launched
as one unit into the famous chorus,
while Bono, oblivious to the chord change,
continued making up lyrics to the verse.
Dylan's head swiveled as he turned to look at his guest
with an expression of complete eye-popping,
jaw-dropping disbelief.
I watched "Transfix" as Bono hovered on the verge
of a spectacular crash when realizing his mistake.
He started howling, "How many times, how many times?"
♪
♪ I don't want to ♪
♪ Go the distance ♪
♪ Just to get ♪
♪ Out of this illusory ♪
♪
♪
There's another Cranberries-esque band
that sounds so much like...
Like the Feelys or something, every time?
The Go-Betweens?
Maybe.
Just have, like, a Feelys vibe.
He's kind of Irish.
That Ruby guitar is so weird.
So you too.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, I was thinking, like, it's...
Coldplay.
Oh, yeah, I can kind of see that.
Did Lanois ever work with Coldplay?
Or was that... that was just Eno.
I think just Eno.
That's a good call.
Wow, this interview looks pretty tight.
I got to read it.
It's Bob, Van Morrison, and Bono sitting around.
Wow.
In the '80s.
Have you ever had somebody in the last five years who said,
"That's crap, Bob"?
Bob.
Oh, they say that all the time.
[laughs]
Mark Knopfler, did he say that?
I don't know.
They spend time getting into it.
[laughs]
Just chatting.
Why would he ask him if Mark Knopfler said that?
Knopfler's on "Slow Train Coming," I think.
Knopfler produced "Infidels."
There we go.
And that's him on "Joker Man," all those, like, tasteful in-between-the-verses.
Oh, yeah.
I didn't know he produced that record.
Yeah.
Interesting.
He's all over it.
Yeah, "Series of Dreams," just, like, a fascinating song.
Yeah, it's a real, like, "What if?"
At the end of the day, no matter what the music sounds like
or the production, you dig into the lyrics and you find, like,
it's just so Bob.
And this whole vibe, too.
"I'm just thinking of a series of dreams."
There's something about that that somehow serves the--
I can't explain it, but I understand how he chose these songs.
"Series of Dreams" has big Bob Dylan, "Greatest Hits," volume 3 energy.
[laughs]
I can't totally explain why,
but the same way that you put it next to "Dignity,"
the groom's still waiting at the altar.
This wasn't an energy I was aware that existed
until a few days ago,
but I'm just so thrilled
that I'm beginning to understand what this energy is.
Right. Is that volume--
Is that volume 3 "Greatest Hits" energy?
Columbia Records exec is like, "But, Bob, none of these are hits.
These aren't even released."
According to you.
[laughs]
Perhaps in this world.
[laughs]
I'm talking about the energy.
I'm not holding cards from this world, man.
There's also something, too--
I know I keep making the same point,
but when I picture Bob being in his early 50s,
he's made it to the 90s.
He's kind of made it through the weird middle period
of being an artist in your 30s and especially your 40s.
He made it through that.
Now he's in his 50s, kind of looking back.
He hasn't had his full old man renaissance yet,
but he's at this weird, funny point in his life
where he's--
I can almost picture Bob Dylan being 53
and just thinking of life as a series of dreams.
It's such a weird line, too.
"I was thinking about a series of dreams."
[laughs]
"I was thinking about a series of dreams."
And it's also that Joker Man energy.
Either he's talking about something insanely serious,
like the fabric of reality, or it's just a whim.
Because there's that part where he goes,
"It wasn't anything very scientific.
"Just thinking about a series of dreams."
But then the music's so epic and dreamy.
Fascinating song.
And clearly, perhaps a--
I know there might be some hardcore Dylan fans
being like, "Yeah, of course, series of dreams.
"No [bleep]."
But for the casual fan,
this might be almost like a secret linchpin song.
It was a mystical text that Bruce Springsteen
passed to Bruce Hornsby
that the members of the War on Drugs found at a young age.
[laughs]
And crafted into something even more magical.
This is such a great run on Volume 3.
So the next one, this one was on an album,
but this is also one of these weird Bob Dylan songs
that the crazy heads consider an all-time class.
And I believe, Jake, you had never heard this song before.
- This was new to me.
- I'd never heard this song before I became a Volume 3 head.
This is from a really hated album in the '80s.
I think this is considered his lowest of the low points
was mid to late '80s, but before "Oh Mercy."
- Yeah, exactly.
This is off the album right before "Oh Mercy."
- Which is called "Knocked Down and Loaded."
- Oh, yeah, yeah. - No, not--
- Sorry, "Down in the Groove" is the one right before.
- "People Hated Down in the Groove."
- This is off 1986's "Knocked Out Loaded."
- "Knocked Out."
Is it "Knocked Out and Loaded" or just "Knocked Out Loaded"?
- I believe it's just "Knocked Out Loaded."
- "Knocked Out Loaded."
And then it's like, the cover sucks.
It kind of looks like a fake album.
- His '80s covers are just rough.
- And so people really, this album,
'cause at least you can go back and be like,
all right, "People Hated" on Street Legal,
but you know what, he's still like this big commercial entity
and he's like blowing out "Buddha Khan"
and I bet that album's still like probably charted somewhere.
I just feel like this is a low point.
And yet on this album, it contains this 11-minute song
called "Brownsville Girl" that the fans love.
And actually, I read an interview with Bob
where it might have been that same one
where he talked about Taylor Swift,
where the guy said, "Do you feel like you have any songs
"that people never really got the attention
"or the credit they deserved?"
And the first thing he says is, "Yeah, 'Brownsville Girl.'"
- Oh, wow.
- He was still on his mind years later.
And this is a song that he's only played live once.
And so of course I went trying to find that live version
and it's like, he doesn't even play it.
He's just like, he's kind of singing the chorus.
It's so weird.
So basically, it's on a forgotten album,
never plays it live, and yet he knew that this song,
he needed to tell this story on volume three
and he pulled this song out, "Brownsville Girl."
This might have some of his most all-time,
most insane '80s production,
which for some people will be a treat,
for some people will be a barrier.
But let's check it out, "Brownsville Girl."
And Jake, since you've heard this,
and I think we had the same experience,
you've had this one, especially on repeat.
- Oh yeah, in the studio, top volume.
- Yep.
- "Brownsville Girl" on repeat.
- Me too, I was in a hotel in Cleveland,
(laughing)
thinking, "Should I go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
or could I just keep blasting 'Brownsville Girl'
off my iPad?"
(laughing)
- Strong choice, my friend.
- You know what choice I made.
(laughing)
- A truly insane, epic song.
- Well, there was this movie I seen one time
about a man riding across the desert
and it starred Gregory Peck.
- Insane opening.
- Yep.
- He was shot down by a hungry kid
trying to make a name for himself.
- Great vocal performance on this.
- Yeah.
- It's like talking and singing.
- No chorus, he's just building up.
- Yep.
- And it's such like a weird psychedelic narrative.
He's like, like he's thinking about a movie he saw.
- He's like sort of recounting it?
- And yeah, you can't tell anymore
if he's talking about the movie
or he's talking about his own life.
- Yeah.
- Kind of a series of dreams.
- Damn.
- San Antonio.
- I love Tex-Mex Bob.
It's like romance and Durango.
- Oh, hell yeah.
- Tex-Mex Bob.
(laughing)
- Are there some other Tex-Mex Bob songs?
- Play it on nachos, fully loaded.
(laughing)
- Yeah.
- Fell down on the groove.
- Oh, still no chorus.
- They wait so long before getting to the chorus.
- Yeah, we're at two and a half minutes.
- You know what, this song is like,
it's like a Charlie Kaufman movie.
It's like Synecdoche, New York or something,
where he's talking about the movie,
but then he's talking about his life
and different people.
- Yeah.
- Here we go.
- Yeah.
- That's a real standout line.
(laughing)
Even the swap meets around here are getting pretty corrupt.
- My top five favorite songs
of Bob Dylan's greatest hits volume three.
And at number five is "Under the Red Sky."
Just kidding.
We're gonna do the top five songs,
the top five Billboard hits this week in 1994.
Why 1994?
I mean, I think it's pretty obvious.
It's the year that Bob Dylan's greatest hits
volume three came out.
This time truly we're getting some context for something.
So you got a picture of Bob Dylan, 53 years old,
putting together his greatest hits volume three.
And this is what was tearing up the charts at that moment.
Number five, Stone Cold classic,
"Ace of Base" with "Don't Turn Around."
♪ I will survive, survive, survive without you ♪
- Well, this song was written by Albert Hammond
and Diane Warren.
Albert Hammond being the famous songwriter
and also the father of the Strokes, Albert Hammond Jr.
- The writer of "It Never Rains in Southern California."
- That's right.
And also--
- That was his one big hit.
- And a fun fact is he's listed as a writer
on Radiohead's "Creep."
- I think we've covered this in the show.
- Yeah, right, 'cause he wrote the Hollies song there
that I believe that they successfully sued them over.
- So this was recorded originally in '86
by Tina Turner.
- Oh, whoa, and then they handed it to "Ace of Base"?
- It had been recorded by Luther Ingram, Bonnie Tyler.
- Oh, so this is like a cover.
- And Neil Diamond.
♪ But don't turn around ♪
♪ 'Cause you're gonna see my heart break, yeah ♪
♪ Don't turn around ♪
♪ I don't want you seeing me cry ♪
♪ Just walk away ♪
♪ Just tear me apart like you're leaving ♪
♪ I'm letting you go ♪
♪ But I won't let you know ♪
♪ I won't let you know ♪
♪ Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa ♪
♪ Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa ♪
- I never knew it was a cover.
- This is the Bonnie Tyler version.
- I was gonna guess if this was the Bonnie Tyler version.
It has her sound.
- Oh, yeah.
This makes so much more sense than Albert Hammond
flying to Sweden to work with "Ace of Base" in '94.
- Yeah, it's a funny image.
♪ And if you gotta go, darling ♪
♪ Maybe it's better ♪
- Albert Jr. is like, what, 12?
- Oh, when "Ace of Base" came out, yeah.
- Probably like 13, 14.
♪ Don't worry about this, all of mine ♪
♪ Just walk out the door, yes, see if I care ♪
- I didn't even know if you knew this.
- I think maybe it's just the chorus.
♪ Don't turn around ♪
♪ 'Cause you're gonna see my heart break again ♪
- Oh, very different song.
"Ace of Base" really did their thing with it.
♪ I don't want you seeing me cry ♪
- "Ace of Base" brought that cold Swedish pop--
- Swedish reggae.
- Technical perfection to it.
♪ I don't want you to go ♪
♪ But I won't let you know ♪
- Yeah, this sounds more like,
this sounds like "Just Call Me Angel of the Morning."
♪ Dun dun, da dun ♪
- Did she cover that in the '80s too?
- I think Juice Newton did.
- You're right.
♪ Just call me angel of the morning ♪
♪ Angel ♪
- Okay, the number four song this week in '94,
Lisa Loeb with "Stay," in parentheses, "I Missed You."
(gentle music)
- This is a--
- It's a monster '90s hit.
- Classic '90s song.
- So Jake, you're 17 years old,
the song's tearing up the charts.
- It's true.
- What was your take?
- I think I liked it.
I mean, I don't,
I wasn't like rushing out to buy the Lisa Loeb album,
but as a fan of pop songwriting,
I was like, okay, word.
- And it's on the Reality Bites soundtrack.
♪ I talk so all the time ♪
♪ So ♪
♪ And I thought what I felt was simple ♪
♪ And I thought that I don't belong ♪
♪ And now that I am leaving ♪
♪ Now I know that I did something wrong ♪
♪ 'Cause I missed you ♪
- Lisa Loeb does the theme song for
"If You Give a Mouse a Cookie," the kids show.
- Oh, really?
- On Amazon, yeah, I don't know if you--
- Does it sound like this?
- You have that on--
- I think we have watched that before.
- Yeah, it doesn't sound quite like this.
♪ I only hear what I want to ♪
♪ I don't listen hard ♪
♪ Don't pay attention to the distance that you're running ♪
♪ To anyone, anywhere ♪
♪ I don't understand if you really care ♪
♪ I'm only hearing negative, no, no, no, no ♪
♪ So I turn the radio on, I turn the radio off ♪
♪ The only woman was singing my song ♪
♪ Lover's in love and the other's run away ♪
♪ Lover is crying 'cause the other won't stay ♪
♪ Some others hover and we weep for the other ♪
♪ Who was dying since the day they were born ♪
♪ Oh well, well, this is what it's all about ♪
- Interesting listening to this now.
This recording is right on the edge between being kind of slick
and a little bit just '90s demo tape.
- Pickup band.
- Yeah, and not because of the playing or the singing.
Everybody's clearly very good.
It's just so kind of sparse and bare bones.
By the late '90s, they would have been adding synth pads to this
and different drum sounds.
It's pretty unadorned and simple.
♪ I can leave, I can leave, oh ♪
♪ But now I know that I was wrong 'cause I missed you ♪
- Her background vocals are sort of filling the space
that a synth pad would.
- Yeah.
♪ I miss you ♪
♪ You said you caught me 'cause you want me ♪
♪ And one day you let me go ♪
♪ You try to give away, keep her or keep me ♪
♪ 'Cause you know you're just so scared to lose ♪
♪ You say ♪
- Isn't that a proto Taylor Swift a little bit?
- Sure.
I mean, yes, in some ways it's almost like a bridge.
I mean, it's literally a bridge between the '80s and the 2000s,
but between early Susanne Vega, Indigo Girls,
and the kind of more mainstream, slick 2000s stuff.
♪
Classic.
- Good song.
- Shout out to Lisa Loeb.
I can never remember if I've seen the movie Reality Bites.
- It's great.
- It's great?
- Yeah.
- Great title.
- It's great.
- Reality Bites.
- Yeah.
I mean, I remember it being great.
That, you know, I mean, everything from that period.
We've talked about singles.
- Yeah, another classic.
Yeah, I always get those confused.
- This is Ethan Hawke, Winona Ryder, Ben Stiller directing.
- Ben Stiller, amazing director.
- Amazing director.
- Amazing performer, amazing director.
He's got it all.
- He's the man.
- Cool dad, too.
- From Reality Bites--
- Creative Severance.
- To Severance.
Truly, when you look at his career as a director,
he's, like, very strong.
- Meet the Parents, Meet the Fockers.
- Did he direct those?
- I think the--
- No, no, no.
- He acted in them.
- He acted in Jay Roach.
You're right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Except for Little Fockers.
- Don't ask me why I know that.
- No, it was good.
- But Ben Stiller directed Tropic Thunder.
- Yes.
- I wonder if Ben Stiller's ever heard of Brownsville Girl.
He kind of likes a world within a world.
- Escape Dannemora.
- Unbelievable.
- Stone Cold classic, and then Severance.
- Shout out.
- Shout out to Apple TV.
I mean, they've got it on lock.
- Oh, that's right.
- Walter Mitty?
- Editor's note, we are,
we have the same parent company as Severance.
Please take our praise with a grain of salt.
No, I'm a big Severance fan.
And actually, really,
there's something about watching Escape at Dannemora
and then Severance.
- Man's got a vision.
- Yeah, I was like, Ben Stiller really has like a,
and you're gonna think I'm crazy,
but a Bob Dylan volume three-esque worldview.
A very unique set of interests.
Ben Stiller should make the Brownsville Girl movie.
Anyway, at number three this week at 94,
Janet Jackson with Any Time, Any Place.
(soft music)
- TC has been looking for, you know,
the first foray movie TV.
What if we approached Ben Stiller
about a limited Apple series, Brownsville Girl?
- Okay.
Now, Ben, we don't own the IP,
but we're trying to track Bob Dylan.
(laughing)
- Tough man to get a hold of.
(soft music)
- Feeling this.
- Yeah.
(soft music)
- Wait, is this like an intro and then the song kicks in?
- I hope not.
I hope this is just the vibe.
(soft music)
♪ In the thundering rain ♪
- You recognize that, right?
- Wait, 'cause somebody sampled it.
Oh, right, right.
♪ In the thunder ♪
♪ Unpoetic, poetic justice ♪
♪ Put it in a song ♪
♪ Moving up my thighs ♪
♪ Skirt around my waist ♪
♪ Wall against my face ♪
♪ I can feel your lips ♪
♪ I don't wanna stop just because ♪
♪ People walking by are watching us ♪
♪ I don't give a damn what they think ♪
♪ Oh, oh, yeah ♪
- I love it.
- I love this part right where you can have a slow,
deep ballad.
- Mm.
- Chart so high.
♪ I'm not gonna stop, no, no, no ♪
- Do you think Dylan, being around the radio
and hearing some of this, what's his opinion?
Not just about this song, but...
- I don't know if Dylan would have a way in for this.
♪ Anyplace I look, you're all around ♪
♪
♪ Oh, any time ♪
♪ And any place I look, you're all around ♪
- Maybe some other Janet Jackson, but...
- I mean, I would have to think he hates the Ace of Base.
♪ No, no, no, no, no ♪
- I mean, yeah, it's hard to say.
Yeah, like, what was Dylan?
Did Dylan, like, Lisa Loeb stay?
- I was gonna say, did Dylan, like, ABBA?
- Mm.
- It's like the proto Ace of Base.
- Well, you think he could recognize, like, a perfect...
- Right.
- Pop song type song?
♪ Dancing on the floor ♪
♪ Feeling the same way ♪
- Very vibey.
The number two song this week in '94.
Oh, this is a classic.
Warren G., "Regulate."
♪
- Regulators.
We regulate any stealing of his property.
♪ Damn good, too ♪
♪ But you can't be any geek off the street ♪
♪ Gotta be handy with the steal ♪
♪ If you know what I mean, earn your keep ♪
- What is this from? Is this...
- It's from "Young Guns," the dialogue.
- Oh, wow.
♪ It was a clear black night ♪
♪ A clear white moon ♪
♪ Warren G. was on the streets ♪
♪ Trying to conserve some skirts for the Eve ♪
- Oh, yeah, and the Michael McDonald sample.
- Yeah.
♪ Just hit the east side of the LBC ♪
♪ On a mission trying to find Mr. Warren G. ♪
♪ Seen a car full of girls, ain't no need to tweak ♪
♪ All you skirts know what's up with 213 ♪
♪ So I hooked Select on 21 and Lewis ♪
♪ Some brothers shooting dice, so I said, "Let's do this" ♪
♪ I jumped out the rack and said, "What's up?" ♪
- I remember hearing this when I was 17.
- Yeah.
How did it hit you back then?
- And recognizing the Michael McDonald sample,
and I was like, "That's sick."
'Cause I was like...
It was such, like, an interesting juxtaposition.
- Right.
- Like, new rap.
- Gangster rap at that.
- Yeah, I meant that.
- New 80s soft rock.
- [imitates car horn]
- And I was like...
Yeah, like, that sort of depressing early 80s...
- Eileen's car.
- Total Eileen's car, like, keyboard tone.
♪ I wanna come up real quick before they start to clown ♪
♪ I best pull out my strap and lay them busters down ♪
♪ They got guns to my head, I think I'm going down ♪
♪ I can't believe it's happening in my hometown ♪
♪ If I had wings, I would fly, let me contemplate ♪
♪ I glance in the cut and I see my homie Nate ♪
- It's rare to get a song where
you're getting a narrative told through two different POVs.
And then they come together, he's like, "I see Nate Dogg."
And then they're like, "Oh, now we're in the same..."
- Oh, yeah.
- "We're in the same environment, same setting."
- I think Dylan likes this one.
- Yeah, I think he would.
I think Bob's on record as liking rap in some general sense.
[laughter]
♪
♪ I laid all them busters down, I let my gad explode ♪
♪ Now I'm switching my mind back into freak mode ♪
♪ If you won't skirt, sit back and observe ♪
♪ I just left a gang of f***s over there on the curb ♪
♪ Now Nate got the freaks and that's a known fact ♪
♪ Before I got jacked, I was on the same track ♪
♪ Back up, back up, 'cause it's on ♪
♪ N-A-T-E-N-E, the warrant to the G ♪
♪ Just like I thought, they were in the same truck ♪
- Is there a part of the song where they, like,
they kidnap his dog?
♪ Nate Dogg and the G-child were in EMC ♪
- I don't remember that.
- I have a weird memory of them taking Warren's dog.
♪ I said, "Ooh, I like your size" ♪
♪ She said, "My car's broke down and you sing real nice" ♪
♪ Would you let me ride? ♪
♪ I got a car full of girls and it's going real swag ♪
♪ The next stop is the Eastside Motel ♪
- Nate Dogg, what a legend.
♪ ♪
♪ I'm tweaking into a whole new era ♪
♪ G-Funk, step to this, I'll tell ya ♪
- This sounds amazing. I've not heard this in a long time.
- ♪ The rhythm is the bass and the bass is the truss ♪
- Bass is the truss.
- Yeah, the rhythm is the bass and the bass is the treble.
- He's saying, like, when you're, like, real bass music,
it's just rhythm and bass.
- Oh, funny.
The bass is the treble. There is no treble.
- Right.
- Oh, wow. I forgot that before.
- It almost seems like the drums are the bass.
Or, like, the 808.
The 808 is the bass, and the bass is the--
like, the bass line is the treble.
- There's so much bass in the track.
- Yeah.
- The upper level is still bass.
- Exactly.
- I never got that.
♪ ♪
- I wonder what Michael McDonald thought of this.
- He said, "I don't give a f---."
- How much did they pay him?
- I just want them on it.
Classic.
- He didn't go Don Henley on it.
- Taylor Swift?
[laughter]
- Oh, and number one, you know, it's funny.
I was thinking about this song.
I think we've heard this on this program before.
The number one song, "All For One," "I Swear."
♪ I swear ♪
- 'Cause I don't know if you remember that we uncovered--
♪ By the moon ♪
- Oh, yeah. We did cover this once.
♪ In the skies ♪
♪ And I swear ♪
♪ Like the shadow that's by your side ♪
♪ ♪
♪ I see the questions ♪
- Ooh, very vibey opening.
♪ I know what's weighing on your mind ♪
- Right, and this had been covered by--
or, no, originally recorded by John Michael Montgomery.
- Right. - A country artist.
I think we listened to it.
- And the crazy thing is that "All For One"
had this other really big hit, "I Could Love You Like That."
- Oh, yeah. - And he also did it.
- John Michael Montgomery.
- So weirdly, they were, like, tied as artists.
They were like, "You do the country version.
We'll do the R&B version."
♪ By those happy tears ♪
- I kind of like that.
- Yeah, there should be more just, like--
- Teams. - Yeah.
- Cross-genre teams.
- Yeah, I mean, I guess it's kind of, like, cynical
just to be, like--
if you had, like, some, like, music production company
or, like, a manager, just, like--
just need one artist of every race.
- Right. - We'll hand you out the songs
at the same time. - You get into some, like,
Dreamgirls stuff. - Right.
- Where there's, like, the white version and the black version.
- Yeah, exactly.
♪ And I swear ♪
♪ Like the shadow that's by your side ♪
♪ I'll be there ♪
♪ For better or worse ♪
♪ Till death do us part ♪
- What's the other guy's name?
Chad Michael Murray?
- John Michael--
[laughter]
John Michael Montgomery.
- Here's Chad Michael Murray with the country version.
- Chad Michael Murray.
[laughter]
That is--
that's gonna be my country alias.
- Chad Michael Murray.
[laughter]
♪ ♪
- Yeah, these songs are slow as hell, man.
- Yeah.
Real ballads.
♪ ♪
- ♪ I see the questions in your eyes ♪
♪ I know what's weighing on your mind ♪
♪ But you can be sure I know my part ♪
♪ 'Cause I'll stand beside you through the years ♪
- I would love to hear Willie Nelson sing this.
- Oh, yeah, that'd be beautiful.
- You can kind of picture it.
- ♪ And I'll be there ♪
- ♪ And though I'll make mistakes ♪
- Like when Willie went real big ballads in the '80s.
- Yeah.
- ♪ I swear ♪
♪ By the moon and the stars in the sky ♪
♪ I'll be there ♪
♪ I swear ♪
- Yeah, this reminds me of, like, being a kid.
Not the Chad Michael Murray version,
but this is the song, all for one version.
♪ ♪
- This is a depressing sound, though.
- This is like...
♪ ♪
Deep CVS.
Like, just deep as hell, man.
Like, 11 a.m. on a Tuesday.
You're home from school, you're sick.
Like...
- Dentist's office in Burbank.
- Oh, my God, dude.
It's just like, you feel like hell.
You're going to the CVS, like...
Where's the Sudafed?
It's behind the locked case.
Like...
- Oh, God.
- Could you call someone to get the key to get the...
Showing your ID to buy the Sudafed.
- The lights are so bright.
- Just like, oh...
Just walk out to a blazing parking lot.
Car so hot.
- So this is the other all for one hit.
♪ ♪
- ♪ Yeah ♪
- Oh, yeah.
That's that classic '90s R&B.
- Do they have a deep voice guy, like, monologue?
- I don't know.
♪ They read your Cinderella ♪
♪ You hoped it would come true ♪
♪ And one day a prince charming would come rescue you ♪
- Oh, wait, hold on, guys.
This is what I was looking for.
Now, about 20 years later,
all for one dueted with John Michael Montgomery
on "I Swear."
- What year?
- I think this is, like, an anniversary edition.
- ♪ I see the questions in your eyes ♪
- Chad starts it off.
- ♪ I know what's weighing on your mind ♪
- This is Chad Michael Murillo's in Apple Music.
- This is 2015.
- ♪ I want to know my part ♪
- Chad Michael.
- All for one.
- ♪ Standing beside you through the years ♪
- It is pretty sweet that they, like, came together
20 years later to do it together.
- ♪ You can't hide those hands ♪
- I should also point out that there is one white guy
in all for one.
- Okay.
- I feel like that guy probably has caught a lot of--
caught a lot of strays over the years
with people talking about,
"Did you know that there's, like, a white version
of all for one by this country dude
named Chad Michael Murray and the white guy in all for one?"
It's just like, I mean, yeah, guys,
I recognize we're operating in a black idiom R&B,
and I'm totally sensitive to the history,
but I am a member of all for one.
I--I--I, like, just look at the pictures, guys.
No, no, no, but, you know,
the white version is Chad Michael Murray.
Okay, all right.
[laughs]
- ♪ Till death do us part ♪
♪ I'll love you with every beat of my heart ♪
♪ I swear ♪
- ♪ I swear ♪ - This sounds bad.
- Voice aged well. - ♪ I swear ♪
- All for one not being too critical,
but they didn't age as well.
[dramatic music]
- ♪ I'll give you everything I can ♪
- This is one of the guys from all for one.
Does the white guy in all for one take, like, lead--
lead parts?
- No idea. - That's him right there.
- I only know two-- I only know two all for one songs.
- ♪ And when ♪ - ♪ And when ♪
- ♪ Just the two of us are there ♪
♪ You won't have to ask if I still care ♪
- ♪ 'Cause as time turns the page ♪
- It's so auto-tuned.
- ♪ At all ♪
- ♪ And I swear ♪ - ♪ I swear ♪
- ♪ By the moon and stars ♪
- I'm just picturing, like, all--
everyone recorded their parts separately in different states,
and then they were all emailed to some guy
that put them through auto-tune.
- Eh, probably. - It just says no.
No sense of, like, warmth or, like, presence.
- So the white dude from all for one is named Tony Borowiak.
Maybe it's Borowiak?
All right, it seems like the original lineup
is still touring together.
Oh, he looks like a sweet guy.
- Aw. - I'm looking at--
- Good for Tony.
- He's got two kids. He lives in Arizona.
- Nice. - Yeah, so I just want to say to everybody--
- Plays a lot of golf.
- Not to get--you know, just remember,
if you refer to the Chad Michael Murray version of "I Swear"
as the white version
and the all for one version as the black version,
already you're getting into some kind of uncomfortable racial stuff,
but you're also just straight up erasing Tony.
- He's referring to these.
- So tread lightly.
- Okay, I just wonder if it's ever happened
that somebody met Tony from all for one
and somehow it came up that you're like,
"Oh, he's, like, a professional singer,"
and they're like, "Oh, are you famous?"
He's like, "Well, you know, we had some pretty big hits in the '90s,"
and they're like, "Oh, like what?"
And maybe he said, you know the song, "I swear,"
and they're like, "Oh, you're Chad Michael Murray,"
and he's like, "Uh, no, no, no. I'm in all for one."
They said, "Oh, but the white version of 'I swear'--
I don't know. I wonder if that's ever happened."
- I'm sure some version of this has happened.
- He's like, "Listen to my voice. I'm not Southern.
[laughter]
Stop judging me by the color of my skin."
- I live in Scottsdale, Arizona.
- Yeah. - I have no accent.
- John Chad Michael Montgomery Murray,
he has a heavy Southern accent.
He goes, "I swear!
I swear!"
- John Ch-- [laughter]
- John Chad.
- John Chad Michael Montgomery Stevens.
- Okay, we're gonna just put into one name.
John Michael Montgomery.
Oh, it seems like all for one's, like, pretty active.
I'm glad to hear that.
- What should we go out on?
- Um...
- I think just Brownsville Girl.
- Oh, hell yeah. - Just go out on that.
- Thank you to Bob Dylan, all the members of--
- All for one. - All for one.
We'll see you soon. Peace.
- Well, there was this movie I seen one time
about a man riding across the desert
and it starred Gregory Peck.
He was shot down by a hungry kid
trying to make a name for himself.
The townspeople wanted to dress that kid down
and string him up out of the land.
Well, the marshal, now, he beat that kid to a bloody pulp.
As the dying gunfighter lay under sun and gas
for his last breath.
Turn him loose, let him go,
let him say he'll do me fair and square.
I want him to feel what it's like
to have the moment face his death.
Well, I keep seeing this stuff
and it just comes a-rollin' in.
And you know it blows right through me
like a ballin' train.
And oh, I can't believe we've lived so long
and are still so far apart.
The memory of you keeps callin' out to me
like a rollin' train.
I can still see the day you came to me
on a painted desert.
In your busted down Ford
and your platform heels.
I could never figure out why you chose
that particular place to meet.
Oh, but you were right,
it was perfect as I got in behind the wheel.
Well, we drove that car all night
until we got into San Antonio.
And we slept near the Alamo,
your skin was so tender and soft.
Way down in Mexico,
you went out to find a doctor
and you never came back.
I would have got on after you,
but I didn't feel like lettin' my head get blown off.
Well, we're drivin' this car
and the sun is comin' up over the Rockies.
Now I know she ain't you,
but she's here and she's got that dark rhythm in her soul.
Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
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