Episode 182: Pump It Up With Thomas Mars
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Transcript
The summer is coming to an end.
It's time to drink a sweet potato latte and welcome fall.
On this week's Time Crisis,
we're joined by Tomá from Phoenix
to talk about Washington State,
Dunkin' Donuts, and Metallica.
This is a very special
Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
They passed me by,
all of those great romances.
They were a threat,
robbing me of my rightful chances.
But picture clear,
everything seemed so easy.
And so I dealt to the blow,
when a bus had to go.
Now it's different, I want you to know.
One of us is crying,
one of us is lying.
Leave it on me, babe.
Time Crisis, back again.
This is a real time crisis, we're all over the place.
Big time.
East coast, west coast, the far east.
Well, it's 9.30 at night where I am.
I'm in Martha's Vineyard on vacation with my family.
This is the latest Time Crisis for me.
I've never started.
First of all, I gotta say,
I love Jake being back in New England.
I know Jake, you've always said you're spiritually west coast.
Yeah.
You happen to have been born and raised in Connecticut.
Southern New England.
But you always felt spiritually west coast,
but you know, it's still important
to return to the homeland every now and then.
Right, so you're 9.30 at night.
It's morning time in Japan.
Oh, it's morning time again.
What time is it specifically?
10.30 a.m.
Okay, so it's a 13-hour spread here.
And then Seinfeld and Nick are kind of in the middle.
It's 6.30 p.m. PST.
So guys, we're breaking it down for the audience
just so you guys know.
This is gonna be crazy.
So Seinfeld and Nick are probably
sipping on a light wine because it's early evening.
Jake's on whiskey, and I'm on coffee.
Right, no, I'm doing a tequila soda.
Six tequila soda.
No, you know what?
I paced myself because I was like,
"Ooh, we're starting late tonight."
So I was like, "I'll have a beer with dinner at 6."
And then I was like,
"I'm not gonna have a drink until we do the show."
Because I didn't want to start the show four drinks deep.
[laughs]
I'll end the show four drinks deep.
I didn't want to start it that way.
[laughs]
Just Jake absolutely hammered.
Wait, so what are you actually drinking?
A tequila and soda water with a little lime in it.
Not sensible.
Yep, very.
Real water down.
Yeah.
Very weak drink.
Well, so the first thing we should talk about is
Jake was in the New York Times.
That's true.
Got mainstream press coverage of my art.
Jake wrote an op-ed on the situation in Armenia.
No, Jake.
Wait, so have you--
Because basically just for anybody who doesn't know,
you had a show at the Armory,
which is like a famous art fair.
Yeah.
Your gallery had a booth.
Is this the right terminology?
Yeah, I did a solo booth at the Armory Fair,
which is actually staged at the Jacob Javits Convention Center,
which is on 11th Avenue.
Oh, yeah.
Way on the west side, 11th and 34th.
Famous place.
Where they also host New York Comic-Con.
Yes, Comic-Con is there famously.
That's where Hillary was posted up the night of the 2016 election.
Well, I actually ran into a TC head at the Armory,
this guy Andrew Bank.
He's a Twitter buddy of mine as well.
He was like, "Last time I was here was Hillary's glass ceiling
not to be evening in November of '16."
That's some crazy energy to have been there.
Yeah.
All right, so it's kind of a palate cleanser for him.
Coming back six years later, look at some art.
And you got a very positive write-up in the New York Times.
It was like a critic listing their favorite stuff they saw.
13 top booths at the Armory.
Baker's dozen of top booths.
Well, I saw it on--
Someone from the gallery was like,
"Oh my God, did you see?"
And I looked it up on my phone and I was like, "Oh, that's cool."
There was a photo of the booth and this little paragraph,
a complimentary little description.
And I was like, "Cool, cool. That's awesome."
But then the next day, I saw it.
It was brought to my attention that it was in the print edition
and that the photograph of our booth took up a half page of the print edition.
So it looked--
And it was very impressive in the print edition.
So you had a big picture of some Jake Longstreth.
Huge.
Wow. Major.
That's awesome.
A fresh breeze, the hummingbirds are here
From Mexico, they ride the northern winds
Away up to Alaska and back down again
Their feet are pawing like a bee
Nature's helicopters so stationary
Can they hover way up in the sky
Or do they relay, tailored by their size?
Spring wind, watch the grass start to grow
Spring wind, see the magma rock explode
Spring wind, hear the rustle of the leaves
Spring wind, love the yucca in this tree
So this is an extended East Coast trip.
Yeah, so I was in New York for about five or six days.
Had a lot of fun, very tiring.
Hannah and Lizzie came out and then we drove through my home,
state of Connecticut on Sunday.
Did you stop in your hometown?
No, we took the southern route on 95.
We did hit a Dunkin'.
Hell yeah.
Hit some rest stops, hit a Walmart in Connecticut.
We really like went for it in Connecticut.
We were just like, oh, Lizzie, actually we like need diapers.
Okay, there's a Walmart.
Like, oh, let's get coffees. Let's hit that Dunkin'.
It was pretty sick.
Did you stop in New Haven for pizza?
Or is that not the southern route?
We did drive to New Haven, but no,
we were strictly on like a corporate kind of retail tip.
I can't believe you didn't go to, I always forget the name.
Pepe's.
Frank Pepe's.
Well, I feel like we've covered this on the show at length.
Like, I'm very skeptical of the New Haven mythology around its pizza.
I think people lose their mind over pizza.
I think it's hard to mess up pizza.
I think mid-level pizza is underrated.
And I think high-end fancy pizza is overrated.
That's where I'm at.
I know what you mean.
That like the spectrum of good pizza is actually pretty small
and 95% of pizza falls within it.
You can split hairs, but I mean, I'm not a food head.
I know what you mean.
I'm not exactly one either, but I think unlike you,
I appreciate the New England mythology.
So whereas you would take fault in the myth-making of New Haven pizza,
I enjoy the pomp and circumstance of it.
Is it actually all that special?
I don't know, but you know, man needs something to live for.
And if that's regional pizza pride,
I don't think you should take that away from.
I mean, if I'm in New Haven, I will hit it.
I'm not going to go out of my way, though, on the freeway,
like 2 in the afternoon, with like a baby in the backseat.
Babe, we gotta pull over.
It's the best, man.
The clam slice.
Can we please?
Well, maybe when she's a little bit older,
because then doing random stuff just to do it actually makes sense.
For sure.
It's a memory. It'd be a fond memory.
I actually was referencing Frank Pepe's recently,
because we went to like a very kind of respected,
cool, fancy restaurant in Kyoto called Monk's.
And it's like this cool chef.
His name is Monk, or he's known as Monk.
And then randomly, he's like,
there's a profile of him and his restaurant on the new season of Chef's Table,
which Jake would definitely not enjoy,
because the whole season is about pizza.
So like every episode are like these long shots of epic music
and philosophical quotes about food and pizza.
I don't think it would be up your alley.
But so we went to this place, and it's a bunch of different food,
but he's kind of like a master pizza maker.
One thing that I learned reading about this place and talking to people,
I didn't realize that a pizza master is called a pizzaiolo,
because there's such like amazing pizza in Japan.
This is news to me.
Oh, I mean, well, Seinfeld, you can back me up on this.
Some of the best Italian food in the world is in Japan.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can back you up. They do it really well.
And I mean...
Does that date back to the Axis powers?
That's a good... I don't know.
Italy and Japan famously allied.
Right. And the German food is just incredible as well.
The schnitzel's off the chain in Tokyo.
I wonder about it. I mean, I think there's a school of thought that is,
a lot of people would say that Japan is a major food culture,
and they do everything well.
I bet if you're into French food...
But specifically, Italian food in Japan really got its start during the post-war years
as American GIs brought with them the Italian-American dishes of home,
and former prisoners of war stayed in Japan and opened Italian restaurants.
Japanese chefs with piqued interest in Italian cuisine began to travel to Italy to study,
bringing back the authentic dishes and techniques.
You know what? That might be the sanitized version of history.
I could imagine... Yeah, maybe Jake's right.
It's like they're establishing these well-funded Japanese-Italian food consortiums
at the peak of the Axis powers, and then later they're like,
"This is not going to play too well."
So instead, they're like, "Why is Japan so good at Italian food?"
You know, a lot of these guys from Brooklyn who came over to fight, they stuck around.
This guy named Joey from Queens is making calzones.
There's actually a guy from Frank from New Haven.
He was a prisoner of war. He saw some pretty f***ed up s***.
But when the war was over, he said, "These people need pizza."
It is interesting, though, that they're saying the Italian food is good in Italy because of America.
I know. That doesn't track.
Just some guy making a mediocre lasagna.
I'm sure it was mind-blowing in 1948, especially after the horrors of the war.
Some guy makes a crappy lasagna in 1948.
It's going to blow everyone's mind.
Ezra, remember that Italian place, the Japanese...
Oh, in New York? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the Japanese-Italian place where we went with Desus and Mero.
Yeah, because there are some Italian restaurants in New York run by Japanese people from Japan.
Basta Pasta. Basta Pasta. Yeah, yeah.
In like Chelsea. I like that place.
Generally speaking, the stereotype is that Japanese culture can take anything on and do it well.
Whether it's vintage clothes or anything.
Maybe there's some truth in that.
I think you can find... And also, you know, of course, cities like Tokyo, Osaka, these are giant international cities.
It's definitely not as diverse as New York or LA, but you do have a presence of people from all over the world.
But I have been to a lot of Italian restaurants here where there's not an Italian in sight.
And the food... Yeah, I should just ask more questions.
Just like, "Yeah, where'd you get your training?"
But anyway, I've been hearing... Someone was breaking it down for me about some of the best pizza spots in Tokyo.
And they were like, "Well, a lot of them trained with this one pizza aolo."
I don't know if I'm saying it right, but like some one Japanese pizza aolo who a lot of people in the scene trained with.
And they went to open their own pizza places.
But anyway, I was sitting at this place, Monk's, which is, you know, it's like, what do you call it?
These really fancy restaurants where you sit there, they bring out the same courses for everybody.
It's about 10 seats in the place.
And then at the end, he gives you a choice of which pizzas you want.
And one of them was like a bit of a fusion. It had like a small Japanese fish on it.
And then we were eating it. And then, you know, that mix of seafood and pizza.
Next thing you know, I'm just thinking about Frank Pepe, talking about it.
A bottle of red
Perhaps a bottle of rose instead
Get a table near the street
In our old familiar place
You and I face to face
A bottle of red
A bottle of white
It all depends upon your appetite
I'll meet you anytime you want
In our Italian restaurant
It sounds awesome.
Just like a boutique Italian restaurant that seats 10 people in Kyoto or Tokyo.
It sounds very fun.
It's definitely a cool experience.
And the guy who runs it is like cool. You can tell he's like super passionate.
Makes me think though, there must be just the whole supply chain.
There must be people who are like producing ricotta cheese and mozzarella cheese.
And these ingredients that you need for high end Italian food in Japan.
Yes.
There's a dairy farm in Japan.
Absolutely.
There's like a cheese maker.
It's really funny that you say that Jake, because Japan traditionally was not a cheesy country.
Obviously, there's plenty of cheese around now, but it's like, yeah, the European consumption of dairy was pretty extreme compared to the rest of the world.
Unparalleled.
Truly unparalleled.
And I even find that sometimes you go into a little cheese shop and even to this day, some of the price, and I guess it makes sense.
It's shipped around halfway around the world, but some of the prices are like truly out of control for cheese.
And it's wrapped up in this really special way as if you're buying a bit of a luxury item.
But it's funny you talk about that being made because I was, you know, being a real East Coast guy myself, I can't go too long without eating some mozzarella balls.
I just need it.
You know, it's like I really, it is one of my favorite foods, just like just fresh out of the bag.
I don't even need to dress it up.
But there's like a brand that we've been buying here and it's a bag of mozzarella balls and it's made in Hokkaido, which is the northernmost island of Japan.
But it says made in Hokkaido by Italians.
And I made a mental note, like I want to, I'd love to know the story of this dairy farm.
Is it a bunch of Italians live in Hokkaido?
It wouldn't be weird at all if Japanese people had become master mozzarella makers.
But the bag specifically said made in Japan by Italians.
Axis power, dude.
Axis powers. Descendants.
Our family's been there since the early 40s.
There's this article that Matt had sent when we were doing, when we really got deep into pizza stuff, however many episodes ago, about how Japan, this is a great title.
Domino's Japan pushes its gastronomical limits with the 34 toppings on pizza.
It's 34 toppings and it's very specific about the Hokkaido Gouda and cheddar cheese.
But it's 34 different toppings called the, it is called the best 34.
On a Dommy's? On one pizza?
On a Dommy's.
Domino's Japan is pushing the limits of pizza with its newest best 34 offering.
A menu item that features 34 toppings on one pizza.
Limited time only pizza is "balanced to perfection" and includes the following tomato sauce, basil sauce, white sauce, cheese, Hokkaido Gouda and cheddar cheeses,
onions, green peppers, spinach, rice cake, pepperoni, big pepperoni, ham, potato slices, pineapple, pork sausage, Italian sausage, corn, beef ribs, pancetta,
charcoal grilled beef, teriyaki chicken, roast chicken, seafood, shrimp, mushrooms, mayonnaise, spicy cod roe, mayonnaise, and a little bit of everything.
Spicy cod roe, mayonnaise sauce, bacon, cherry tomatoes, sliced asparagus, Hokkaido, Camembert, Italian, boccuccini, jalapenos, and finally, garlic.
I know what I'm having for dinner tonight.
I mean, there's a photo of it. It seems like they like, they don't evenly distribute all of those ingredients over the entire thing.
No, but they don't seem to, it doesn't seem organized terribly either.
It sounds insane.
I don't know why the first thing I think of is how I was always struck in Japan, historically, you'd like read about one of these boy bands or girl groups that has like 37
members.
There probably is a girl group that has 34 members called Best 34.
Actually, Seinfeld, while we're talking about it, can you do a number crunch of the Japanese pop group with the most members?
I'd love to try this. Also, I got to say too, the idea of 34 toppings on a pizza, at a certain point, you kind of have to painstakingly make that because you can't be
throwing too much of any one thing.
That's going to require a lot of manpower.
And the fact that it's at Domino's, I just don't see that happening in an American Domino's.
Just imagine just you were getting like a random Domino's in the middle of nowhere and you just get like from corporate, just like, yeah, rolling out the 34 topping
thing.
You have to have like specialized training for it.
Could you imagine you just start day one at Domino's and some guy orders the best 34 and they go, all right.
And they go, yeah, just it's 34 toppings.
Yeah, I mean, as someone.
How am I supposed to, I don't know. Just go for it. 34 toppings.
I mean, literally, you'd be dumping something onto a pizza.
As a veteran of Domino's, I had a brief stint there for about nine months before I began my career at Papa John's.
That's an underreported history in Jake's life is the Domino's months.
Uh-huh. The year 2000.
I worked at Domi's for about nine months.
But let me tell you, the make line would just be completely crushed if you had to have a 34 topping pizza.
You know what this thing needs? It's got the tomato sauce, got the pesto sauce.
You know what it needs, guys? It needs mayo.
Can we get like a little plastic bin of room temperature mayo at the end of the make line and just have a real kind of dirty butter knife that's been sitting in there all day.
And just kind of the last thing before it goes into the conveyor belt oven is just slather a little mayo just right on the top right there.
Delicious.
Push some fish eggs in that mayo.
You know what? I'm going to try to get this pizza and I'm going to count it too.
There's been a lot of viral content lately about these psychotic Starbucks orders.
This must have come up on the show before, but you see it like in memes and jokes.
Sometimes it's presented as a menu hack at Starbucks where it's like, how do you get this fun drink?
Well, here's the order. Or it is just a hyper specific order.
But people post these receipts that are always about adding a million pumps of this and one pump of that and creating these like hyper specific.
Yeah, it's very pump based.
Creating these like.
It's so gross.
[Laughter]
Just pushing down on that handle.
When you go to Starbucks, don't be a two pump chump.
Make sure that your order is at least involves 15 different pumps.
But people post these things because they're like, and then you see the discourse is like, oh, you're putting the employees through hell to make these things.
It's kind of amazing that Starbucks even allows this.
It's pretty amazing that they pull it off.
Because when you think about like a Starbucks in the morning, they have all these like orders through the apps that people are just coming to grab.
People probably get so pissed off.
They're on their way to work.
They order a Starbucks drink through the app.
If they have to wait for more than two minutes in the store, like there's going to be hell to pay.
So they have to deal with that.
Then, of course, the line of people there.
Plus the drive through.
I mean, truly working at Starbucks must be way crazier than working at McDonald's.
And then on top of that, the fact that your menu has unlimited combinations, that would be hard enough if you were like McDonald's style where you're like, we got two
things to eat.
We got two things to drink.
What do you want?
Coffee. Boom, boom, boom.
But that if somebody walks in 715 a.m. at a popping Starbucks with all the pumps and the foams and purees, how can the system handle that?
That's insane.
It's like when you go to a bar, a busy bar, there's like one bartender and every person going to the bar is ordering some elaborate cocktail that takes eight minutes to
make.
Right.
Nothing drives me more insane.
Crazy.
So, yeah, I mean, in L.A., I'm all surprised no matter the hour of the day, the Starbucks drive throughs are slammed.
Like where it's like the cars are backing out.
Like there's like a few around where I live and work, like an Eagle Rock, like on York and on Figueroa.
The drive through is backed up onto the street where there's like five, six cars blocking the right lane just because they're waiting to get into the Starbucks
driveway to get into the drive through.
It's like it's almost 20 cars deep because people need to get their pumps.
Gotta get your pump.
Starbucks is crushing it right now.
How is this sustainable?
Yeah, it seems insane.
With these fricking pumps.
Wait, Seinfeld, can you get me like one of these crazy orders just in case anybody listening can't quite picture what we're talking about?
I'm reading the most disgusting thing I've ever read.
This is like the 16 Starbucks flavored syrups ranked worst to best.
So these are the pumps.
A raspberry being 16.
I mean, it doesn't sound great, but it doesn't sound awful.
Funnel cake, seasonal.
Wait, what?
This is a Starbucks order?
Yes, these are the pumps.
I looked up the pumps because when I think of the pumps, I think of vanilla caramel.
Whenever I go to Starbucks, an extra pump of caramel.
But this is funnel cake?
I don't even know what that would have been made of.
Sugar-free vanilla also sounds gross.
I actually don't understand.
Irish cream is a pump.
Caramel, that's 12.
And that, I would say, is probably from my limited experience, sounds like the most popular.
A peppermint pump, also seasonal.
Apple brown sugar.
Brown sugar.
Honey blend.
The honey blend syrup at Starbucks is essentially honey diluted with water.
Ew.
I mean, well, that's at least natural.
I mean, sure, sure, sure.
Hazelnut, that seems like a fairly popular pump.
Cinnamon dolce.
Okay.
Sugar cookie.
Okay, not sugar.
Sugar cookie.
Chestnut praline.
What?
Toffee nut.
Oh.
The classic, just straight up classic.
So the classic pump at Starbucks, I didn't even know you could just order, "Give me an extra pump of classic."
The classic syrup at Starbucks is their own version of a simple syrup.
It's liquid sugar that easily blends with ice.
Where are all these pumps?
You know there's that brand of Italian-flavored pumps that you would see at kind of like an old-fashioned cafe?
I always thought that some of those syrups were used for ice dishes, like an Italian ice dish or something.
Oh, that's Tirrani.
Oh, Tirrani.
Tirrani, yeah, yeah.
You see those pumps.
Sometimes you go to a kind of more like old-school Italian cafe and those will be lined up almost like alcohol behind the bar.
When I picture like Starbucks-
You're saying physically where do they place the pumps?
Yeah, where the f*** are these pumps?
I feel like I'm always at some like dingy little Starbucks.
And also, this would obviously be a great question for Winter.
Should have had him on this episode, but is there an expectation that every Starbucks you go to is like fully pumped out?
A lot of these are seasonal, so I assume that if you know it's the season, then yes.
Is funnel seasonal?
It sounds like they even have quite a few basic flavors.
Well, yes. Vanilla, always. I think you'll always find a vanilla pump.
And I feel like every morning they're pumping vanilla. Three, four pumps.
I think these pumps are core to their business. I feel like they gotta have the pumps or it's a problem.
So it's probably a high priority part of their inventory.
Big time.
I mean, it must be.
It's funny how you could just like, you know, I guess we all live in our bubbles.
Wait, so what are some of the orders?
Oh yeah, what's like a crazy order?
So this article is from last year.
Starbucks responds after Barista's viral tweet about complicated order.
The order here is a Venti Caramel Crunch Frappuccino with five banana, ex caramel drizzle, extra whipped cream, extra ice, extra cinnamon.
DOL, what does that stand for?
Cinnamon.
Seven pumps.
Dulce.
Cinnamon Dulce.
What's Cinnamon Dulce?
That's one of the, that's I think the number 13 worst pump.
Oh wow, okay. That was on the list.
No, it's a six, it's a six worth pump.
It's a six worth.
It's a six worth pump.
It's a bad pump.
Caramel Crunch, Honey Blend, Frapp Chips. What is that? Seven add Frapp Chips.
Are Frapp Chips like little pieces of chocolate that they might put in a Frappuccino or something?
Yeah, I guess.
So yeah, that would take like five minutes to make that drink.
Oh yeah, get this ingredient, heavy cream.
Maybe this person's on an extreme weight gain diet. They're trying to take down 6,000 calories a day.
So a barista who worked there tweeted that picture and said, "On today's episode of Why I Want to Quit My Job."
And then I guess that went super viral and then Starbucks responded.
We sell the world's finest coffee.
Oh, here we go.
They told Fox News, "Customizing beverages at Starbucks and our baristas experience in helping customers find and craft the right beverage has and always will be the
heart of the Starbucks experience, aka pumps are core to their business."
Oh, they need those pumps.
To the barista who's not interested.
They don't have the pumps.
If they don't respect our pumps, they can go shovel shit.
If you don't want a challenging artisanal work experience, go work at McDonald's.
You don't respect the pump, go take a jump.
That's the Starbucks version of you got time to lean, you got time to clean.
You don't respect the pump, take a jump.
Take a jump.
Fun stuff.
I went to hell.
I might as well learn by my mistakes.
I at 24 was insecure.
Do whatever it takes.
Come on and wake up, wake up, wake up, wake up.
Shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up.
It's time.
Smell the coffee, the coffee.
Wake up, wake up, wake up, wake up.
Shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up.
It's time.
Smell the coffee, the coffee.
I feel like the pump world is totally hidden from a lot of people.
Two people online at Starbucks, one person's just there for a black coffee and a sandwich,
and the other person has a 15-part order.
These pumps have to have the most insane margins.
That's why this is core to the business.
It's like a whole thing of this vanilla.
It has to cost 30 cents to make, and they're charging 25 cents a pump, 50 cents a pump.
It just has to be over the top. That's the only way you could be pumper Jones.
There's gold in them pumps.
Right, maybe it is core to the business.
That's how much a pump costs, you think? 25 cents?
I have to think so. Let's find out how much a pump is. That should be easy to find.
It's 50 cents.
50 cents a pump?
It's free money.
Each pump is worth about half a cent.
That's as of 2020, so it may have gone up.
Pre-inflation, the price of the pumps is skyrocketing.
Was this person ordering six pumps of cinnamon Dolce?
It was.
That's like a $10 drink.
Yes, it was.
The last thing I just want to say about Starbucks is, Seinfeld, you sent me that a fan, a TC head,
mentioned that in Japan, Starbucks is about to drop their equivalent of the pumpkin spice latte,
their seasonal beverage, which is a sweet potato.
What do they actually call it? Sweet potato latte?
Let me just find that letter. Now you have my attention.
That was on Twitter.
You sent me an article.
Starbucks unveils new roasted sweet potato frappuccino in Japan.
While pumpkin might be the flavor of the season for a lot of people overseas,
here in Japan, it's all about the sweet potato.
Freshly harvested in the colder months, people grow up associating autumn with the flavor of sweet potato,
and the most popular way to enjoy it is as yaki imo, roasted sweet potato.
So they have a yaki imo frappuccino decorated with crispy sweet potato flakes.
The new frappuccino captures the chewy texture of the root vegetable
with actual chunks of roasted sweet potato blended into the base of the drink.
A honey-like sweet potato sauce is mixed throughout the beverage,
creating a gentle sweetness and providing a delectable, beautiful golden hue.
Oh, so I guess they had it last year. Hopefully they're bringing it back this year.
I would actually love to try this. I do love the flavor of Japanese sweet potato.
I love Japanese sweet potatoes. I eat them in Japan. I eat them in LA, wherever I am.
I love a good Japanese sweet potato.
You gotta get that beverage, man.
Absolutely.
Gentle sweetness.
Yeah, do you have a lot of Starbucks in your vicinity?
Is it convenient for you to access on the 21st when it drops?
Yes, there's plenty of Starbucks around here.
I'm not hitting them regularly, but yeah, I can't help seeing.
You know what you cannot get at a Starbucks in Japan?
What?
Tea.
Oh, just like the tea world is too competitive in Japan?
That would be my understanding.
When we were there, Amanda doesn't drink coffee.
She only drinks tea and we'd go to a Starbucks if we were around to grab one.
And just flat out, no green tea, no Tazo green tea, nothing.
It's just, you go there for coffee.
I guess that makes sense. Japan famously being a tea culture.
There's other places to get tea.
So now we're going to be joined by Thomas from Phoenix,
legendary French band Phoenix.
Known Thomas for a long time.
I was very honored that they asked me to be a part of their new song called "Tonight."
They had me throw down some vocals on it.
It's out now. They got an album coming out in the not so distant future.
Anyway, yeah, I believe he just walked off stage.
So let's get Thomas for his first TC appearance.
What's up Thomas?
I'm good. How are you?
Good. Welcome to Time Crisis.
You're on with Jake, Nick, and Seinfeld 2000.
Welcome.
Thank you. It's good to see you in your work mode.
That's right. Yeah, you often see me in my leisure time.
Yes.
This is when the boys go to work. TC time.
By the way, is it true that you just walked off stage?
No, we finished playing Colbert with you.
It's funny you're on a split screen because we used a split screen.
And I was kind of interacting with you in the car.
We'll see how it turns out, but it was fun to do.
Oh, right. Yeah, I appreciated this because I didn't have to do anything.
You guys performed live, but then you used footage from the video.
Yeah, we used the take of you in the taxi. Yeah.
Oh, great. So you're in New York?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we go to Philadelphia tomorrow, tonight.
Oh, great. I mean, I guess you've done it a lot over the years.
Do you guys enjoy just going deep into America?
Yes. I think America is made for... I think we talked about this,
that it's made for touring. It's built for the road.
Some of the best shows will be in places that you would never expect.
And you go to these small college towns, and then you go to Salt Lake City,
and then you play for the Mormon kids. It's very exotic for us.
Well, so for instance, you and Chris from the band mentioned
when we were texting not that long ago that you had a day off in Cleveland.
Did you play a show in Cleveland?
No. We had to find a place between Chicago and New York City.
And so Cleveland was pretty much the only option,
but it turned out to be nice. I was a good friend to Bronco.
I took him to the hospital. It's nothing bad, but he had to go to a hospital.
So I wanted, as a guy who lives for 15 years in the United States,
I wanted to know he could fill all the forms and everything,
because it's such a unique...
You went to a hospital in Cleveland?
Yeah, I went to the Cleveland Clinic, I think it was called, with Bronco.
And then they went to the Hall of Fame, and then Bronco after,
because everything was fine, we celebrated with some Cleveland sushi.
Tight. How was it?
It was not the best. But what's driving us crazy in this country,
I really love this country, but it's the use of air conditioning.
We've had some hotels where we come in and there's a room that's...
The air conditioning is at 60, and then the bathroom is heated up to like 85.
We're questioning a lot of hotel chains these days.
Yeah, I guess they just keep it blasted.
I mean, obviously, it makes no sense. Not very energy efficient.
You didn't go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
No, I took Bronco to the...
Oh, okay, the other guys went.
Yeah. We sent you pictures, because there were some great...
They showed me after there was some... What was it? Sam Cooke sweater.
Sam Cooke had such a unique style of casual, comfy, very avant-garde,
just a great knitted sweater, and all these... I don't know, it was...
No, and also...
Yeah, I like the picture of Sam.
And Chris, he sent me a picture, I think, of one of Jerry's guitars,
and there was something belonging to Pigpen, because he knew I like Grateful Dead.
And I should also say that, having spent time with you and Chris,
at some point, we had a conversation about the Grateful Dead,
and you guys both said you knew absolutely nothing,
so I made you guys a playlist.
This was last year. We spent some time together on vacation,
and we were talking about the Dead, and you guys were like, "We have no idea."
So I made a pretty brief playlist that I thought would be an introduction to the Dead,
and maybe also things that I thought maybe you guys might find cool.
I don't know if I ever got your take on it, Thomas, or if you listened to it.
It's okay if you didn't, but I did see...
I would say I loved 20%.
And then the rest, I thought, like, I'll never listen to this at home,
but I understood the idea. I think I understood the...
You know when you play, like, the Shrine Amphitheater Auditorium in San Francisco,
and you see all the lawns and people going there for, like, four or five hours show?
It made me understand how you could appreciate them live,
and how the whole Bay Area culture was...
You know, also, I love all the technology, like, all the crazy gear, stories,
and everything that's, like, it's very Japanese.
I know you're in Japan.
There's something very Japanese about their approach to sound and to all...
Maybe that's what Japan took from America the most,
but there's something very Japanese about them, I think.
Like, well, the kind of the attention to detail, and the...
I guess the innovation with some of the live stuff.
Yeah.
But also the wabi-sabi.
Yeah, the Grateful Dead is pretty wabi-sabi.
Very.
Yeah.
And especially, I think, in a way, because I'm sure people have made this point before.
It's interesting. I've never thought about the...
That definitely seems like a small book you might see checking out.
It's just, like, kind of, like, the wabi-sabi nature of the Grateful Dead,
and it's kind of like a old, like, Japanese woodblock-type print style picture of Jerry
with, like, a samurai face.
But even the concept of them jamming,
which, of course, could be a bit rough around the edges
and will take a natural shape the same way that you might appreciate
the way that a tree grows or, you know, a crack in some pottery,
something that's, like, kind of organic and natural
and has beauty next to something that you could also perceive as being, like,
not quite symmetrical or not quite perfect.
I totally think there's something there.
When I talked to Chris when I saw him in Paris last year
after I'd made you guys the playlist--
and Jake will appreciate this, because Jake is the one who first got me into this song--
I can't even remember what I put on it, but, you know, like, a bunch of classic stuff,
like some tasteful Working Man's Dead and American Beauty cuts,
then some solid live stuff, you know, classic, like, Europe '72, China Rider.
I bet I did Scarlet Begonias from Cornell '77.
You know, like, a mix of live stuff and some tasteful studio recordings.
And then I remember seeing Chris, and he was, like, you know, he's such a nice guy,
and he was like, "Thank you so much for, you know, taking the time to make that playlist.
It was very interesting to hear it. I did not really connect with the live stuff," he said.
But I want to tell you something. There was one song that, wow, I mean, just really,
this song could be my way in.
It was "Rubin and Cherise" by the Jerry Garcia Band.
And it was interesting, because, like, that's always been a favorite song of Jake's way back in the day.
He's the one who turned me on to it.
All the Europe '72 stuff, the American Beauty, he wasn't quite in,
but the one way he could see in was "Rubin and Cherise," which I found interesting.
- That was my way in as well. - Mm.
For some reason, I knew you were going to say "Rubin and Cherise."
I don't know what it is. Maybe that arpeggiated, like, keyboard part, or, like, it's so tight.
It's sort of proto "Touch of Grey."
Is there something, Thomas, that speaks to the French sensibility about "Rubin and Cherise"?
Yeah, I don't know, but it's true. It was the same one for me.
Chris and I, well, Chris even more than me, he's obsessed with Bob Dylan.
We have so many friends that if they hear the wrong first song, that's it.
They'll never really get into it.
And there's one song in particular when it makes me think of this.
If I want someone to like Bob Dylan, first, you don't play your favorite song or something.
There's one song, "I Shall Be Released."
That one is the perfect entry point because it has Dylan's DNA, and it's simple.
It's not too challenging, but it has, like, the melancholia is there.
The sound is there. It's the perfect entry to all his different career.
And then you go into, if you want to go as far as "Desire" or wherever you want to go.
As far as?
As far as? Oh, we're going way past "Desire" on this show.
We're going to wiggle wiggle. We're going deep.
Thomas, it's actually funny that you bring up Dylan because recently on this show,
we did a two-part episode where we dug into his "Greatest Hits Vol. 3,"
which has quite a bit of his '80s work.
Yeah.
And of course, you're right that for many people, "Desire" is like the famous cutoff place
as maybe one of his last classic, classic albums.
Do you ever get into anything past "Desire" personally?
Yeah, well, I get into the last, those recent stuff that I really love.
Oh, yeah, "Rough and Rowdy Way." It's incredible.
Yeah, I think I like a bit of everything because it's always--
I think that's what I liked about "The Grateful Dead" is that it seems like it's always in movement.
It's always evolving.
And Dylan, when you see him live, is one of the few guys who's taking the energy out of tension.
You know, when it's live, he likes to--
I guess since his British and famous tour in England,
he took the booze as something that was like a source of motivation maybe or something.
It made him stronger.
And I think when I saw him live, there was a lot of--
he kept evolving and going to places where I wouldn't expect to.
Certain records, I thought, "I'm not going to like this record."
And even 10 years ago, I never liked "Self-Portrait."
Now I like "Self-Portrait." That's a record that I really love.
What about the Christian period?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He went through every single religion, I think.
He experimented more with-- less with chords, but with everything else.
There's something always stable.
It's like American steel.
It's always made out of steel.
You have the strong foundation, and then it goes--
you build whatever you want to build with steel.
I think for me, it's so solid, and it's so--
now I tend to like pretty much everything.
And now that he's-- I don't know how long he's going to live,
but it makes him even more precious, because he's not here for such a long time.
So every new song, it's like a special gift that you get--
you have one more, and you're not sure when it's going to end.
Yeah, well put.
They say every man must need protection
They say every man must fall
Yet I swear I see my reflection
Someplace so high above the wall
I see my light come shining
From the west down to the east
Any day now, any day now
I shall be released
Thinking about Dylan, and especially recently having spent time
with his middle and late career, there is something about him--
and I could be wrong here, but his career seems more French to me,
because in the US, it's always felt like you have these legendary people,
and then at a certain point, they're kind of past their prime.
They might still sell tickets, but it's nostalgia.
Whereas I always had this impression of these European singer-songwriters
that are kind of taken seriously throughout their career,
and they age in a dignified way.
I always feel like when I'm in France or something--
and of course, from the outside looking in,
I feel like I'll see some ad for some 70-year-old singer,
and he's playing a big concert.
And I kind of think, well, in America,
obviously we had that in the Frank Sinatra era,
where it's like, "Ah, a showman."
But then you think about Bob Dylan,
and there's just such a small handful of people
who truly can age and be taken seriously deep into their life
by a significant singer, which is almost like a European archetype,
which is the important poet or even--
Artists.
An artist, where you see Godard dies,
and I always find this-- I get a small smile
every time some significant French artist like Godard dies,
and then you see the statement from whoever the president of France is.
That's always like-- it always uses this poetic language,
like a man who used the eye of humanity to look into this--
like in this way, you know.
So anyway, there's something about Bob Dylan.
He's one of these rare pop musicians
who has that kind of long artistic career.
Am I right that in France there's quite a few of these types?
Yeah, but I think once you're there--
it's like once you're in the club in France,
you're there forever, and almost, I want to say,
they forgive you pretty much everything.
Because you're an artist, they're more tolerant of things
they shouldn't really be tolerant of.
They respect artists so much that they give a pass
on certain behavior or certain things.
But do they also just take the work seriously?
Yeah, they take everything seriously, and it's very--
but it's really hard to get there.
And I think that's one thing we appreciate
when we started touring in the US,
is that if you played like-- I don't know, like Lawrence, Kansas,
people would come to you like, "You're an artist?"
And you would be like 25.
It's so cool.
They respected you. In France, it's not the case.
If you're a young artist, they treat you like sh*t.
Like, they don't take you seriously.
And you have to have some sort of honor
or some sort of-- played the Olympia a few times,
been seen on TV, and then they'll take you seriously.
But if they don't know that you made your classes,
you know that you're-- French for art is a little bit of--
it's all about merit.
And for us, it was hard because we came from Versailles,
so we were supposed to be the posh kids.
So we were the opposite of the kids that had merit
and that worked hard their way.
So they gave us a really hard time for a long time.
Was early French Phoenix Press, like, what, mean? Harsh?
Yeah, it was harsh, but it was mostly--
it never talked about music.
It always talked about fashion, dirty hair.
They were annoyed about--
You don't say.
They pretended to be someone you're not--
you know, pretended to be tougher than you, entitled.
But it never talked about music.
Well, one thing I've always been curious about,
and I'm interested to hear about the early days of Phoenix,
because there is this funny thing,
and I was thinking-- I'm picturing, you know,
half of your band walking around the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
There probably isn't a single French person in the hall, right?
I don't think so, yeah.
I've been Rock and Roll in France with Johnny Halliday for a while,
so he's not going to be in the hall.
Is there any chance that Serge Gainsbourg is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
No.
Yeah, almost impossible.
But, I mean, it's interesting,
because for, like, a certain generation of Americans,
they actually know a bunch of French artists,
because they know you guys, Daft Punk, of course, maybe Air,
all artists that you have a connection to.
And yet, when you zoom out further,
there's very, very few French artists, let alone French bands,
that have had an impact in the US.
So, when you guys were, like, starting a rock band in the late '90s,
did you have a sense of, "Oh, yeah, there's a lot of--
we know a lot of French bands,
and we'll play on a bill with a bunch of French bands"?
Or did you have to look internationally?
Were you doing something--
Like, what was the scene like as you started a band?
There were no French bands,
because Daft Punk and Air were doing--
They're a little bit older than us,
and so we never really met them until we had a record deal.
But, so, the doors were open for them,
but they also were using not traditional--
They were using only samplers.
They were using only--
In fact, they sold--
Like, we bought our first four-track recorder from--
from Daft Punk.
We exchanged some samplers against some drums from Guy Manuel.
Like, we--
So, we were embracing the traditional side of music,
instruments and production,
while they were going in a new and modern way.
For us, it was always more interesting to--
We loved production, but we wanted to do it with a--
You know, we knew we were not going to do it the same way
that everybody was doing it,
and we were not good enough to keep going that route.
These bands were onto something.
Every band was doing, like, I guess, music in their bedroom.
You know, we all had drum machines.
We all had things.
But for a lot of them,
they didn't have really any acoustic instruments.
It was--
They built these recipes.
Air loved the Solina keyboard.
So, it would be, like, layered and layered.
So, it was sort of a mess,
because every band sounded different.
Because we were using traditional instruments,
we were almost not that welcomed by, let's say, the UK,
because we were--
They didn't want to give us the spot.
You know, that was their specialty.
And they were saying, like,
John Lennon said that there's no French rock music
like the same way that there's no British wine.
And it seems like in 2022--
I never heard that quote.
--like a week ago,
that now there's great British wine.
You know, so--
Wait, there is great British wine now?
Yeah, apparently.
Gotta try some.
Due to climate change, there's now great--
Yes, yes.
They say an end can be a start
Feels like a barbaria still alive
It's like a bad day that never ends
I feel the chaos around me
A thing I don't try to deny
I better learn to accept that
There are things in my life I can't control
They say love ain't nothing but a sore
I don't even know what love is
Too many tears I've had to fold
But you know I'm so tired of it all
I have no terror, disease, or spells
Finding out the secrets words won't tell
Whatever it is, it can be named
There's a part of my world that's fading away
You know I don't want to be clever
To be being a superior
True like ice, true like fire
Now I know that a breeze coming me away
Now I know there's much more dignity
In defeat than a brother's victory
I'm losing my balance on the tightrope
Tell me please, tell me please, tell me please, tell me please
If I ever feel better
Remind me to spend some good time with you
You can give me your number
When it's all over I'll let you know
It makes total sense that you guys have more of this rock band archetype
Whereas maybe, and then between
Air, Daft Punk, and then later Justice
Yeah, it's easy to see that the Anglo press would be like
Alright, we like these French duos
Dance music duos
That seems French to us
But the archetype of a French band doesn't make that much sense
But within France
Are there some rock bands
Your age or younger
Who are well known
Because you know, in a lot of countries
They may never have broken into the UK, US, Canada world
But you know, there's like
Beloved heritage rock bands in Japan for instance
Is there any like big French bands
That are like under the age of 50
There are some bands that are big in France
And they play rock music
Guitars, drums
Well in the 60s the Yeye movement was all about
Taking songs that were already existing in the US
And just translating them
And having whoever
Sylvie Vartan, François Zardy, Johnny Halliday
Sing those songs
And they would become instant hits
Because they were certified ASCAP
You know, gold
Great songs, but no one knew about it
In France
And so the transition was really hard
And then they
Made a band called Telephone
I don't know if you heard about them
So Telephone was a band that was doing rock music
A bit like the
You know, they were trying to be
A mix between
The Stones and The Clash
But more, they tried to look more like The Clash
But they sounded more like
A little bit more conservative
And when were they big?
80s, and they were talking about the French subway
They were talking about Paris
They were talking about
Having issues with finding a job
In the suburbs
So they were so French
The subjects were so French that it was instantly embraced
By the masses
But it wasn't that
I mean, I don't
French people will hate me for saying that
But it was not good
There was something new
There was something
But it wasn't fulfilling
As a teenager, I couldn't
You know, there was something that was so
Obvious and straightforward
That
I was not buying it that much
And it made me wonder almost that
If I was a British kid
I'm not sure if I would have appreciated
Punk the way I appreciated it when I was
In France, you know, there are certain things that
With the distance it seems like
Certain things are just
Better because you're not
So aware of every
You're not burdened by all the cultural context
Or the feeling of
I went to middle school with a kid who had the t-shirt
Of that and they were so lame
Well actually that's something we were kind of curious about
Like obviously
You guys are big fans
Of rock music and you seem to
Know like the history very well
What are the American
Bands that were like meaningful
To you guys in the early days of Phoenix
Pixies was a big one
Because they were so good
Live, we went to see them live
Early on and they were
So violent, it was like on and off
I really loved them
Prince was
Always my favorite but it wasn't
From the start that was the first
Record I got from my brother
That's the thing
Especially growing up in Versailles
That felt like an alien was coming
To, you know
It was so surreal, then there were some
More random, you know
At the time when we would go to see shows
Of bands that we worshipped for like a second
And then we'd move on
Like random names
Like Swear of Driver
You know that band?
I've heard of them, what do they sound like?
I think they sound better when you're in France
Than if you're American probably
Oh I think they're English actually
They have two songs that were really good
There's one that's called Son of a Mustang Ford
And it's like heavy guitars
But it's sort of
It's almost before
Smashing Pumpkins
That they are melancholy
It's a little bit of this but
More credible, more like
Sub-poppy
There's something
That was interesting about them and then we saw them live
And we're like, no these are the wrong
Guitars, these are the wrong, the toms
Are set up the wrong, we're not gonna like this band
They started but like no that was
Not the band we thought they were
You know we were like super
Judgmental about how
Someone would have a guitar
That had, you know the guitar that had the
The little thing under that goes
Like this, the ons
We'd be like no we can't listen to this band
Because they have the wrong
We were like super snobs about
Every detail of
Equipment
So you referenced sub-pop
How much did you know about American Indie Rock
For instance we have to ask
Were you aware of Guided by Voices
In Versailles in the 90s
Yeah cause my brother had a year
He's 9 years older than me
But he had a
His sophomore year in high school
In '83 he went to
The suburbs of Seattle
He got lonely and I visited him
For like a month
So you're gonna say he went to Ohio
And his teacher
Was this guy named Bob Pollard
Who had a band
And you had to play him some tapes
So your brother went to
He went to a place called Federal Way
Which is like a super boring
Suburb of
Federal Way
Have you heard of that town chick in Washington State
Did you say '83 or '93
'83
Wow okay this was a long time ago
This was before sub-pop
This is before but it's right when
Prince started but he saw
Then he went back in '87
But he kinda saw
He had friends and he
I felt like he really saw the beginning of
A whole new culture that
Every time there was something interesting he'd tell me
About it
I think there was a story about Federal Way
Today or yesterday cause there was a
Cop, I saw something random
In the news that
There was a cop that went viral
That was in Federal Way anyway
I've never heard that town name
Federal Way, Washington
It's a really strange city
That's divided by a freeway
So when you needed to cross
It was like playing
Frogger
Except I was
I was seven
So I remember crossing that thing on my own
And it's still in my memory
But I have to pay the most attention
Now because I can die right now
No because your family
Went to visit your brother
When he was doing his high school year
Yeah my mom and I went to visit him
Cause he was lonely there
So you were a seven year old French boy
Crossing something like 8 lights
In Federal Way
In Federal Way, Washington
Yeah it was very strange
But it's also the peak of American
I mean you know every single
Thing in the house where my brother
Was staying, the kids that lived there
Like the light switch was Darth Vader
Or the t-shirt was like Ghostbusters
Every single thing was a toy
Everything was playful
Even the food you could make your own burger
You could choose the ingredients
For a French kid it was like
Everything's fun
It was like an arcade
The next 20 years of your life
You're just like sitting at a cafe in Paris
And be like one day I'll return to Federal Way
Come hell or high water
Even like he brought me the
Love Missile
The Zig Zig Sputnik
Record cover that's like a transformer
It looks like a toy
So everything to me was like
America's fun, it's so fun
I wanna be there
And then it got a little edgy
So all the sub pop thing
I love British bands
More than
In the 90's
My Bloody Valentine was my favorite thing
Like Stone Roses
Even Primal Scream
All these things
We were more in the band interested in these than
English
I could see that
For you was Pearl Jam meaningful?
No never
Nirvana was but it was so
Commercial that
My grandma bought me Nevermind
She bought me Nevermind
For Christmas
What about like REM?
Oh interesting
REM was big, it was popular
But I didn't connect as much
Nirvana I did connect
But it was so
Big that
People that like Guns N' Roses would like Nirvana
And in high school I couldn't
I was more into
No one liked My Bloody Valentine
You'd play this
People would get offended
And it was perfect to start a band because that was
The glue
So it was again
Really starvish
But when you start a band
You need to find
Your thing that nobody
Or at least if it's not a thing it has to be
A weird combination
I like
Help Albert
And Stone Roses
These two things combined
Suddenly you can pass
If you write on a piece of paper
In a record store you're looking for a bass player
You know what to write
That's a combination that works
Well I can find a soul mate
And I think especially in that era because
I'm sure it was different in France
But like yeah growing up in the US
Because so many people were into rock music
And so many people started bands
These bands that were
So ubiquitous like Nirvana or Pearl Jam
If you were trying to find
Some sort of idiosyncratic take
To do something fresh and I like those bands
But it wouldn't be like a meaningful way
To connect with other people
And I felt the same way
I was always interested in finding people who liked stuff
Outside of rock music
Or who liked really specific bands
Whereas like ironically
I kind of wonder now
If I was 14 these days
And every kid would have some like
Super cool playlist being like
Oh yeah I like this
I like that if actually
If I met some weird kid at my high school
I was like what do you listen to?
Do you listen to like rare groove stuff
Or Japanese city pop
And the kid was like exclusively early Pearl Jam
Maybe today I'd be like
Whoa you're weird
Man you're a freak I want to hang out with you
Let's start a band
Yeah yeah
There was a show in Paris that was
Burt Bacharach and Dionne Warwick
It was in like
Super clean
Sort of like
Broadway you know
Expensive tickets and everything
And at that show
Every single French musician
Daft Punk, Air, Star
Everyone was at that show
Just like when you
If you hear like
I heard that like Kraftwerk when they played in Manchester
Every single
People that started an interesting band
You know
New Order all the musicians were at that show
Right and they say the same thing about
There's like an early Sex Pistols show
In Manchester
Everybody from who went on to be in
Joy Division, Buzzcocks, you name it
Was there
That's hilarious though that the French version
Was Burt Bacharach and Dionne Warwick
Yeah
I mean it makes sense
What the world needs now
Is love
Sweet love
It's the only thing
That there's just
Too little of
But what the world
Needs now
Is love
Sweet love
No not just for some
But for everyone
Lord we don't need another mountain
There are mountains
And hillsides
Enough to climb
There are oceans
And rivers
Enough to cross
Enough to last
Till the end of time
What the world
Needs now
Is love
Sweet love
Do you go to Starbucks?
No uh no way
What's the connection
Well I was actually about to bring it up
Because for a young boy
Visiting America and seeing all of the
Options you'd have
You could make a burger of almost anything
Everything seems like a toy
You have no idea the amount of options
You have at a Starbucks
You can basically build your own
Beverage for the rest of your life
Differently every day
But isn't
I feel like people that love to go there
It's because they can find their
Personality in one drink
So they'll be like no I'm a venti kind of guy
I have this
You know
And maybe one day I'm going to explore and try the pumpkin
Spice whatever
The flavor of the month
Have you ever had a pumpkin spice latte?
No. Never?
It's good no. Have you?
Yeah I think I had it once
It's fine it's incredibly sweet
And I mean Tommas the reason we were talking about it before we got you on the phone
About people are talking more and more
About these incredibly complicated orders
People get at Starbucks and I think you're right
A lot of people pick their drink and that's what they get
Some of them because there's this whole
Pump system with different syrups
You can do these incredibly
Complicated things you're like I want
Three pumps of peppermint
Two pumps of pumpkin
And actually you're a good person to ask because you spend a lot of time in Italy
Being a European
So you know those
Torani pumps
The Italian pumps
What are those mostly used for?
Is it for coffee drinks?
Well in Italy I think it's the opposite of
I'm not sure about the Torani pumps
But to me it's the opposite of
Starbucks because it's
You just ask for a coffee
Sure you can choose a cappuccino
Or you can add
But if you go to
The place in Rome
The famous place well
Come back to me but well you
Senestacchio coffee place
You go there
It's like the ultimate short
Perfect little
Boost just like
There's no choice you go there
It's the opposite of choice
You go there and you just take what it is
Which is more or less an espresso
Yeah
I think when people order a lot of
Complex things it's because they
Think their personality is complex
And they you know the same way
That there are certain people you meet that they're
They're telling you like
I have some blood from Hungary
And then Brazilian and then that
But they're really like the most American person
You know or
People want to be complex when they
Feel like they're not or maybe
There's something
So a lot of times if someone that's
Ordering something that's over complicated
Probably
Is looking for
Hasn't find their
Personality they're not sure who they are yet
Interesting
I like that analysis
I want to do like a prank show where we have Tomas
Work at like a really busy
Starbucks for a morning
And every time somebody comes in with like an expensive thing
He just starts talking
Just like you know man
What are you trying to prove here
Just very quickly just so we can
Just so we can
You know put this to bed
Tehrani was created
In you know it's been around
For a long time but it has been
The syrup pumps are mainly used for cocktails
And mixed drinks
It was only
It was only in 1982
When they developed
The vanilla syrup that it was used
To create a flavored latte
And so that's
I think it is it's mocktails
Cocktails probably sodas
I could see a sparkling
Water that you do a pump of a cherry
Or something into but
This idea I think Starbucks
Probably I don't want to say
They sort of like created the market
Because obviously there was this
Flavored latte but I think the idea of
Taking that Italian
Idea for cocktails
I mean like we can do this with all of our
Coffees right you know
Really jack up the calories
It's not a traditional idea at all that's
Some weird no
It's weird but cocktails it's
Interesting because cocktails are
Really maybe what
Led to Starbucks
Because when people order a martini
It's part of the sophistication
That you know how
You know the vermouth is barely
There you don't want
You know you want the idea of vermouth
Or you want so maybe
It's I think the people that
Martini is the most
Maybe the most sophisticated
Drink that in to you if you
Know what you are so maybe they're trying
To mimic that a little bit
But in the
Coffee world. That is an interesting take
That yeah the modern coffee culture
Comes from alcohol culture
Because the baristas
They were out of control I mean
When you talked
About touring America you know
If you played anywhere in America
There would be a barista and all of a
Sudden in three hours time
You'd go in a place
Next to a venue and there'd be a barista
That make playful cocktails
With like infused
You know
It became
A thing that you're
Going to a bar now and you're going
To be drunk but also
Educated and
It brought like another layer of
I don't know it was just
Everywhere. Right. And every drink
Every drink takes
Eight minutes to make. You know
They don't taste that good and you're
Supposed to thank really the person that
You know it seems like a Larry David
Episode of him
Like ordering all these
Things and then you're supposed to
Thank him for his service you have to
Like thank the bartender for like
Oh you made me a special drink that's
You know you ask about my personality
What you feel like what you
Now there's more and more places where they're like
What's the base? Just tell me
The base and what you feel like you want to be
Energized you want to be
Well yeah it's kind of like individualistic
Consumer culture that
The same way that
You have infinite choices on how you want to dress
There is a feeling of like
I want a tailored experience
That expresses my individuality
And I agree
With you there is an irony there is a certain way
In which sometimes just like
Slam in a coffee or a beer or whatever
It's like you get that over with then you
Have more time to have a
Conversation with your friend
Be your authentic self or something
You really you can get lost in the choices
For sure. Are you hitting Dunkin Donuts
Much?
No. My kids
Are.
But also Thomas you've lived in America
For pretty long all the other guys live in Paris
Where do you live Thomas? I live in New York City
Manhattan or Brooklyn?
There was one I would go there was one that I really
Liked
I can't remember the chain
But one donut chain was so much
Sugar but it was the plain one
I could see like. Krispy Kreme. Probably
Krispy Kreme. Yes Krispy Kreme
If I had one next to
My place that would be an issue
You know because that's
Something that's like
Simple and just
That was like a perfect
Yeah but Dunkin. No the other ones
I didn't really. Also I feel
Like there was a whole
It helps when the logos and everything
The design and things is really
Appealing to me like it's part of the
Krispy Kreme had like a good
Solid visual. Well they had that
Old fashioned kind of 50s thing
Are you saying that you don't like the
The orange purple
Dunkin Donuts color scheme? Dunkin
It never really
Didn't make an impact on me
Fair enough. Different strokes
Sentimental, no romantic, not disgusting yet
Darlin', I'm down and lonely
When we're the fortunate only
I'll be lookin' for something else
Doulet, doulet, doulet, chocolate, doulet, doulet
Spoke slowly, discouraged
Fistin' for mother interest on your favorite weekend
In this love fortune I'm lonely
That's where the fortunate only
Know I gotta be someone else these days
It comes, it comes, it comes, it comes, it comes, it goes
A list of many I
Think less but see it grow
Like a riot, like a riot, oh
Not easily offended
Not hard to let it go
From a mess to the massacre
I was gonna switch gears out of Dunkin' Donuts and Starbucks and back to music.
I wrote down a list of American bands.
I wanna do a lightning round.
Oh yeah, lightning round.
Yeah.
Now if-
Okay.
That's a good way to close out.
If you express that maybe Nirvana was a little commercial, then this might be a complete exercise
in futility.
But I'm gonna name some American bands, just like, you know, if you like them, if you heard
them, if you hate them, whatever.
Yeah, if you have a little story, anything.
Yeah.
The Eagles.
Mm.
That's the perfect example because in France we would get Hotel California, Ova Nova, and
to appreciate the Eagles you had to, it was the tallest hurdle.
It was almost impossible to like the Eagles because it was so mainstream in France.
And then it was like Bonny Tyler, they were on the same level.
You didn't see the difference between Bonny Tyler and the Eagles.
To us it was the same thing.
After that I appreciated them.
It's funny, Jake, as you say that's the first one.
I could totally picture like a Phoenix, you guys making your Eagles album.
Like I think-
Like a California kind of like-
And obviously there's like the kind of late, what is it?
Like I can't tell you why, like kind of like funky-
Soft rock.
Soft rock Eagles, which I think you'd appreciate the same way you appreciate Backpack.
But I could, I don't know, I could almost picture, and also you guys famously have a
song called Funky Square Dance.
So you've tipped your toes into the American West in a sense.
But like I could just picture a Phoenix album.
There's like a cactus on the cover.
It has kind of just like Eagles Western imagery.
You're called Phoenix.
Phoenix, oh you got to make your Arizona album.
Standing on a corner, winds of Arizona.
The Funky Square Dance thing we were picturing the, you know when Euro Disney started, there
were all these communities of like French people that love America that started there
and they would do square dance.
I think that was kind of the weird angle of the square dance that it was like not the
real traditional square dance, but it was the failed version, the ridiculous version.
That's what we liked about it.
There was more vibe in the Alsace, like in the bad copy of these people, like they were
French, they didn't want to be French.
They were looking for something else.
They were longing for, they were just lost and they had this community of doing square
dance in the suburbs of Paris.
But even with the Eagles, there is an element of distance because like these guys were appreciating
this Western imagery.
You know, like when you think Don Henley, you know, sing Desperado or something.
There is a bit, I don't want to say ironic distance, but just distance in terms of like,
yeah, they were also playing with these signifiers.
Anyway, that's my pitch after Alphazooloo.
The next one is Phoenix.
You guys go to Arizona for a couple of months and you guys make your Eagles album.
The album is called Phoenix, but it's not self-titled.
It's Phoenix.
Yeah.
All these guys.
So on your, so it's like, so on your new self-titled, wrong.
I'm just saying, but I mean, it's self-titled.
No, we're called Phoenix.
This is Phoenix, Arizona.
All right, Jake, you go.
I got a couple of more bands.
Credence Clearwater Revival.
No, I wasn't.
I was not into, everyone that was into them was smoking weed and things and we were not.
We were super anti-drug.
So we were, we were, no.
But kids your age listened to Credence.
Like it, like, was it on the radio in France?
No, but it was like, it was everywhere.
You go to vinyl store or like a second hand.
It was the most, the, you know, that was the most sold.
So every kid had Credence.
Yeah.
Every, it's a lava lamp.
It was the lava lamp in a French bedroom.
Metallica.
That was more interesting to me because, but I never really got into them.
No, but, um.
Were there French metal heads?
Like did you go to school with kids that wore Metallica shirts?
Yeah.
There were too many for us.
There were too many.
You know, there were people that listening to a lot of reggae kids and a lot of heavy
metal kids.
I think we liked a little bit of everything.
We like to be picky.
So we were, we didn't want to stick to one style because you had to like, if you are
listening to Metallica, you had to stick to your, any other thing than, than in that genre
was a betrayal.
What about like, uh, like beat happening or something like that?
I don't know beat happening.
Okay.
Fugazi.
No, I wasn't.
It was too far.
No, no, I couldn't.
I discovered them too late.
I think.
Pavement.
No, but I, there was a.
I love this honesty.
I love it.
Yeah.
You have a very specific palette.
You're going.
Yes.
Yeah.
Pavement was exactly, was the tipping point.
Pavement and the wedding present.
It was at the same time for me.
They were the tipping point while I was like, I'm not going there.
And I regret it because pavement is, is a great band.
And uh, but back then we were, I, yeah, we were super snobbish and we were like, no,
we are sticking to, and pavement was the, yeah, was on the other side of the road.
We didn't run a, and the wedding present was another band that was like that, that my brother
loved.
He loved pavement, but I wouldn't go there.
The strobes.
I mean, pavement is a great, I mean, it's almost hard to imagine.
What about the strokes?
Strokes I always liked.
Strokes I always liked, but they came later on.
Yeah.
They're a little late.
You were already a band when they came out.
It was, yeah.
Strokes I always liked cause they, everybody was dissing them cause they thought there
was nothing new about it, but they always had great chords and great emotions and great
style and.
Yeah.
And also, my wife's Roman, my wife's brother, Roman Coppola, he would work with them on
all the videos and shows.
Oh, wait, wait.
Didn't he direct the video with Guided by Voices?
Yeah.
He directed, I think he directed like five or six.
Yeah.
Someday.
Yeah.
Someday he directed the MTV special.
He directed the Elvis, the Elvis one.
So he got in touch with the people that shot Elvis.
And so I feel like he has a great part of introducing the world to the Strokes.
He put so much taste into it and made them irresistible and it made them, so no, I liked
them, but they felt like cousins or something.
I could relate to them.
And so they never, I would, it's a band we would not listen to when we were in the studio
or because we wanted to listen to things that were really far from us.
And we felt like it wasn't a competition because they were already, I felt like they made it
before us, but we always liked, yeah, I always thought they were, yeah, they're a great band.
Smashing Pumpkins.
I mean, I could just keep going.
It's great.
I love it.
Smashing Pumpkins, no.
Too big?
I mean, too...
No, yeah.
I like the songs.
I like, you know, I like a lot of the songs, but there were too many songs I didn't like
or I couldn't, I was like, no, it doesn't seem, no, I don't know.
It's weird to diss all these bands and say...
No, no, we know you're not dissing them.
You're also dissing them.
Some of them I respect, not liking.
You're actually talking about how you felt when you were growing up.
Exactly.
I think as we all get older, we can find our way into almost anything if we want to.
Yeah.
Green Day.
Ooh, good one.
Green Day.
No, Green Day, well, I had a friend who loved Green Day.
He tried to convince us that Green Day was this great.
And I always thought it was not the real thing.
I'm sure it's, you know, but I always thought like, no, it's, they are acting like they're
crazy, but I don't think they're crazy.
That's how it felt when I looked at the video.
And I was like, it's not the real thing to me.
Just sometime in the next couple of weeks, just do us a favor and throw on Dookie and
see how it...
Beautiful album.
Beautiful album, see how it hits you.
Oh, I got one.
Bruce Springsteen.
I loved, it was early, so I was a kid.
So I was really, I was not trying to be a teenager that's finding its thing.
I was still a kid.
So yeah, born in the USA, the sound was incredible.
You couldn't just, you know, the sound was massive.
Even like all the small, like I'm on fire, all these small songs that had like more moody
atmospheres and things.
Amazing song.
Yeah.
Not interesting to me.
Oh, and this, you know, it's funny too, I can't remember when I would have talked about
this with you, but it's stuck in my head.
Speaking of 80s American cultural products, I remember you telling me that seeing Top
Gun was like this, like borderline spiritual experience for you.
I went to see it four times.
How old were you in 1986?
I'm born in 76.
So I was nine, nine or 10.
I think I was so happy because I could go on my own.
I would go on my own.
We lived next to the theater, but I also knew that there was something patriotic that was
really disturbing.
You know, there was something that was like, that was shouting like, "USA, USA."
But it was just too good to be the night.
I was, yeah, I was floored.
Did you have a similar religious experience in Maverick?
Did you did the new one?
I did.
It's the exact same experience.
Was it the same for you guys?
Yes.
For me, a hundred percent.
I was-
I'm embarrassed to say I haven't seen it.
I'm too cynical.
No, it's, and it's perfect for you, Jake.
It's perfect for the cynical.
I'm telling you.
I saw it.
Toma, Toma, I have two people on this call telling you who, you have to trust us on some
level.
Toma, and I asked the question knowing the answer.
I knew he was going to say that.
Yeah.
I couldn't connect because I just kept thinking about all of us aging.
Tom Cruise is playing that role 36 years after he originally played it.
And I'm just thinking about the decline of America, the decline of our mortal coils,
Tom Cruise somehow existing outside of time.
I couldn't like watch the movie in a straightforward way.
Like I wanted to, yeah.
Those are still some heavy themes, even with your negative take.
I actually have to say that it's operating on a level of art for you that maybe even
above-
Unintentionally, but yes, it doesn't matter.
Kind of biblical.
The intentions don't matter.
So yeah, that's true.
In that sense, it was successful.
Toma, how many times did you see Maverick?
Just once.
That's the difference.
Oh, you got to get those numbers up.
Did you see it by yourself?
I only watched it once.
I saw it with my oldest daughter, with Romy.
Okay.
Wow.
That's really beautiful.
I've seen the original four times as a nine-year-old, and then you get to take your daughter to
see the hit sequel.
Wait, how many years later?
36?
Yeah.
Or something.
Yeah, 36 years.
That's got to be the record for a sequel.
Yeah.
I'm watching every motion in my foolish lover's game.
All this endless ocean, finally lovers know no shame.
Turning every turn into some secret place inside.
Take my breath away.
Were you inspired by Maverick at all?
No.
That's a good point.
I would say that's the main difference.
I love the way you answer the question.
No.
As a kid, you come out of Top Gun and you're floored.
This one, you're just satisfied.
This one is just hitting the spot.
Well said.
It's a roller coaster ride.
It's not a...
I guess, yeah, it's the difference between movies and cinema.
But that's like, you're like, "Okay, that's a movie."
You come out of that.
And I haven't seen it, but I also think it partially must be the difference between also
like high-end '80s film stock and modern digital filmmaking.
If you turn the sound off or took out the dialogue of Top Gun, of the original, it truly
is art.
Them driving the motorcycle around San Diego, the texture of the film.
Those oily bodies.
Yeah.
Gorgeous.
I thought there's one year where it should have won the Best Picture, was Fury Road,
Mad Max.
Oh yeah, great movie.
I thought that movie was really new.
It had everything that was new.
Also the director was in his...
Wasn't he like '78 or something?
It's the youngest movie.
It's incredible that he made that movie at his age.
To me, it's mind-blowing that it's the movie of...
And it had so many challenges and so many...
That felt new.
There's a few things about their movies, their popular movies, but they feel like they're
okay.
That's a new milestone.
That's something super satisfying.
Absolutely.
Well, we didn't talk about the new album, but that is basically...
That's pretty Time Crisis style.
Our listeners...
Yeah, that's good.
I mentioned, people, anybody listening at this point probably has heard the song we
did together.
The album's coming out in November, right?
Yeah.
You should come back.
We got a lot more bands.
Yeah, I'd love to be part of...
This is my favorite thing to talk about.
I talk too much, so I'm happy to not be the guest and just be like, "Yeah, okay, yeah."
And just here and there.
But yeah, that's my favorite thing.
It's like when we were...
The game you play on...
I remember once at dinner, you asked me, "Okay, if you had to live..."
Oh, right.
Yeah.
Oh, I love that game.
"If you can live in the sixth arrondissement of Paris or the entire Belgium, where would
you choose?"
Yeah.
It's like never ending...
Yeah, I can't remember what...
Because the game, it always starts with...
And obviously, if you haven't been to these places, it's irrelevant, but it always starts
with, "Would you rather live on the island of Kauai or just the city of Chicago?"
Oh, right.
That's the classic.
That's the classic.
Do you remember what you picked, Thomas?
I think I spent too much time thinking about it.
I was like, "Well, what do you mean?
Do I have access to..."
I think I was too...
At first, I put too much thought in...
Well, I guess you have to put thought into it, but I think I picked Hawaii in the end.
But the idea is that you cannot leave ever, right?
You can't leave.
You're in Chicago city limits or the island of Kauai forever.
You're never leaving.
That's a tough call.
You have a city and all its urban resources, or you live out in nature with limited...
That's what the question comes down to.
It's like Kauai, obviously it could be anything, but it's known to be a beautiful tropical
island, but without a ton of people.
It's not like a tropical island that has a big city like Honolulu.
It's like a beautiful, small...
Has everything you need, but quiet place.
And then the reason we always choose Chicago, of course, I would change it if it was somebody
from Chicago, but it's like, I know so many people from New York or LA or something.
So it is like, all right, this is a big city, but it's not your city.
It's not New York where you have family and friends.
It's Chicago.
More or less has everything.
It has world-class museums, world-class...
- Yeah, great bands that go there.
- Yeah, you'll see great...
So it's a big city, but it's not your city.
And for you, obviously it's not Paris or New York.
I always used to be Chicago, no question.
As I've gotten a little bit older, I guess it makes sense.
I could picture myself living out my final years, mystically confined only to this one
tropical island of Kauai.
And I guess also COVID changed things.
You know, I feel more connected to the world wherever you are.
- I think I would have said Chicago before COVID because I need...
- That hustle and bustle.
- Yeah, but I have to debate.
I have to think more about this one.
- Okay, well, yeah.
Next time you come, we're going to ask you a series of increasingly difficult questions
of would you rather.
And then also we'll get back to our list of American bands.
- We were just in Chicago and we were just in...
That's me?
We were just in Chicago and it was pretty...
I have to say it was pretty...
I don't know.
It was pretty dystopian, what the venue was and everything.
We saw too many...
You know, it's pretty dark.
- Bummer.
- So yeah, still keeping Kauai.
- Well, yeah, I guess there's a lot of cities.
It's a transitional moment.
- Yeah, for sure.
- A lot of good food in Chicago.
- Yeah, the best.
The beginning of the whole Locovore thing.
So yeah, I remember going to places in 2007, 2008 that all copied the same recipe and now
they're everywhere.
- Even the baristas come in the US where you're originally from.
- From Chicago?
Yeah, influential place.
- I don't know.
There was a whole trend.
There was a restaurant called The Publican that was like a model for and everybody copied
that restaurant and it became the Brooklyn formula.
- The White Subway title.
- Oh, that's interesting.
Right.
Maybe Chicago played a larger role in that movement than we think.
- All right.
Well, no, we definitely should have you back again.
We got to just keep...
Next time you come though.
- Anytime.
- Yeah, a lot of bands.
- It's no preamble.
It's just like, all right, Tomas, let's get right into it.
The Doors, James Gang, New Found Glory.
Okay.
Anyway.
- No effects.
- All right.
Give my best to everybody, Tomas and everybody.
And by the way, everybody listening, obviously Phoenix has the new album coming out.
So obviously you guys got like tour dates up.
You're kind of on the road already.
Maybe they're coming to a city near you.
Check it out.
- Boom.
♪ Could you, could you come tonight ♪
♪ Instead of going under ♪
♪ Could you, could you come tonight ♪
♪ Would you think it'd be your last December ♪
♪ I couldn't get away, she comes ahead ♪
♪ It must have been the day you lost your care ♪
♪ What if I was the answer to your prayer ♪
♪ Yeah, you need a little candor ♪
♪ Need a little candor ♪
♪ What if we last till it's dawn ♪
♪ You keep ruminating ♪
♪ Who let the boys build their own trick ♪
♪ Dinner is served, can't you see ♪
♪ When that apple sits ♪
♪ Are you still up thinking of me ♪
♪ I take all the blame ♪
♪ Is it hard to understand ♪
♪ When it's all the same ♪
♪ I played all the games ♪
♪ And I stole almost everything ♪
♪ Now I'm talking about seven, that's quite surprising ♪
♪ Roll ♪
♪ With me ♪
♪ Let's roll ♪
♪ Could you, could you come tonight ♪
♪ I'm counting from the thunder ♪
♪ Could you, could you come tonight ♪
♪ Got a feeling that you know the number ♪
♪ Could I be the best to jump ahead ♪
♪ Your feet are hurting less with more consent ♪
♪ I never heard another comment since ♪
♪ You need a little splendor ♪
♪ Need a little splendor ♪
♪ What if we last till it's dawn ♪
♪ Like you promised me ♪
♪ Who let the boys build their own trick ♪
♪ Dinner is served, can't you see ♪
♪ When that apple sits ♪
♪ Are you still not thinking of me ♪
♪ I took all the blame ♪
♪ Is it hard to understand ♪
♪ When it's all the same ♪
♪ I played all the games ♪
♪ And I stole almost everything ♪
♪ Now I'm talking about seven, that's quite surprising ♪
♪ Roll ♪
♪ With me ♪
♪ Let's roll ♪
♪ With me ♪
♪ Talk to myself and it's quite surprising ♪
♪ In the middle of the night, night, night, night ♪
♪ Roll ♪
♪ Now I talk to myself and it's quite surprising ♪
♪ In the middle of the fight, fight, fight, fight ♪
♪ Roll ♪
♪ Can't you see the sign of a phone alarm ♪
♪ In the middle of the night, night, night, night ♪
♪ Roll ♪
♪ Can't you see the sign of a phone alarm ♪
♪ In the middle of the fight, fight, fight, fight ♪
♪ Talk to myself and it's quite surprising ♪
♪ Roll ♪
♪ With me ♪
♪ Let's roll ♪
♪ With me ♪
♪ I wish I was someone else, someone like you ♪
♪ I wish I was someone else, someone like you ♪
♪ I wish I was someone else, someone like you ♪
♪ Be someone else, someone else, someone like you ♪
- What's the name of that mozzarella ball product
you've been eating with the Hokkaido cheese in Japan?
- I don't know, I'll have to look it up.
- Does anything come up if you look up
mozzarella made in Hokkaido by Italians?
- Yeah, yeah, so I've been doing a little number crunching.
I found the full story.
It's been in some Italian press
that I translated to English.
It's kind of fascinating.
- Oh yeah, please tell us about it.
- So it's this guy, Elio Orsara.
He's an Italian chef and restaurateur.
He owns like a couple of Japanese restaurants.
And here's the story.
So he's quoted as saying four years ago,
I think this was 2012.
He says, "I was finally able to realize one of my dreams.
"I opened the first dairy in Japan
"for production of Calabrian cheeses
"using the best local organic milk.
"To realize this dream,
"I had to overcome immense obstacles.
"Just think that never before in Japan
"had a foreigner been granted a license
"to process fresh milk.
"To install the machinery, all strictly Italian,
"engineers from Italy had to come to Japan.
"And this was not well tolerated
"by the traditional Japanese distribution system,
"which tried to block and boycott my business.
"What?
"In the end, however,
"I managed to create a small colony
"of Calabrian cheesemakers who in the Sapporo countryside
"produced cheeses from the Italian region
"with local organic milk.
"Finally, I decided to start the production of salami,
"always using the Italian technique, machinery, and know-how,
"but using Japanese pigs."
I feel like this guy would be an interesting guest.
- Yeah.
- I don't know if he speaks English,
but-- - I should go to Hokkaido
and interview him live for "Time Crisis."
- I mean, that would be incredible.
- Yeah, man, pound the pavement.
- I would love to try the cheeses.
Also-- - No journalism.
- We haven't broken a story on TC in a while.
I should also say that throughout the recording
of this episode, I'm on a chain with members of my family,
really advocating to try to order
the 34-topping Tomatoes pizza for dinner tonight.
- Wait, is this your parents, or is this Rashida, or--
- No, my sister's here, too.
- Oh, yeah.
- I'm getting a bit of pushback.
- Why am I not surprised to hear that?
I'm basically on the, you don't have to eat any.
- Can you get half and half?
Like, can you get half pepperoni
and then half 30, 30, 34, 35?
(laughing)
- I wanna let me get a half plain, half 34 topper.
All right, top five, let's do this.
- It's time for the top five, five on iTunes.
- We're gonna do a true top five this time.
It feels like recently we haven't had much to say
about the top five Apple music songs,
so we're just gonna go back in the day
to a classic year, the year 2000.
Why 2000?
- That's the year that Phoenix started in Phoenix, Arizona.
Oh, I should've asked him about Boston,
although he would've been like,
yeah, the kids have smoked weed, like they did,
they like Boston.
(laughing)
- I was gonna say, when he's describing all these things,
just like picturing, wait, so he was born in '76.
So yeah, just picturing like early '90s,
like French high school,
and there's like some kid with long hair,
just like having a full conversation in French,
just be like, no, come on, man, you go to check out CCR.
And just be like, no, man, it's not cool.
And he's like, yo, come over to my house,
we smoke weed, listen to CCR.
You will see, just like alternate universe,
but maybe not that different.
- ♪ Hang on the river ♪
(laughing)
- I'm very excited on our Phoenix, Phoenix album concept.
He didn't seem too jazzed on it,
but I think Phoenix going to Phoenix
and recording an album and calling it Phoenix is--
- So dope.
- There's already, you have it hook right there.
- And truly, like they could actually pull something
musically from the Eagles,
because with all this distance,
they could really do a best of the Eagles,
where they have a little bit of like the late '70s,
smooth, funky stuff.
Some country rock, maybe a Hotel California's
Mexican reggae moment.
- Yeah, some like harmonized guitars or synths or whatever.
- Because that's totally French.
I mean, obviously it's such a big song,
but when he's talking about being at the same show
with Daft Punk and Aaron, all those guys,
you could totally picture all those guys
listening to the harmonized guitar part.
I mean, that part sounds like Daft Punk.
♪ Da na na na na na na na na na na na na na ♪
I mean, Daft Punk, that's not Phoenix,
but still, I could see them totally pulling something
from that.
- And the Eagles have that sort of jaundiced,
cynical, existentialist worldview.
- It's pretty French in a way.
I mean, this is gonna-
- Don and Glenn are pretty French.
- Pretty, what do you think about it?
They're pretty-
- I also, I think just even if they like move down there
and like, you know, post it up
into like a big pink type house,
and they're then like at the Safeway or whatever,
they're at the supermarket and it's like,
"Oh, what are you doing here?"
And it's two French guys singing in a band called Phoenix.
Just even-
- Yeah, it's great.
I mean, there's a whole, you can make a doc about it.
I mean-
- Oh yeah, I love that.
- Well, welcome to Phoenix.
- Are you named after Phoenix?
No, but we're recording a band called Phoenix about Phoenix.
It's great.
- Just going to the best French restaurant in Scottsdale.
- Oh, I meant to ask him if the shows in Phoenix
go off a little harder.
- Oh God, great question.
Okay, save that for the next time.
But I do think we need to,
'cause I know Tomas lives in New York,
but the band is still based in Paris.
So he goes there to work.
And actually, if we had actually talked about this album,
but I'm sure he talks, he's doing so much press,
but they recorded their last album in the Louvre.
And I was in Paris last year.
- What?
- Yeah, he was out of town,
but I went to the studio and I saw Chris and Bronco.
- What studio?
It's in the Louvre?
- I mean, they're so cool.
It was just like, I was like, "Wait, what's going on?"
And basically, I love that kind of just like
the straightforward delivery,
where basically what they said is,
"You know, we always wanted to record in a museum.
"It was an ambition of ours, never possible."
We'd asked many times.
And finally somebody at the Louvre said,
"Okay, there's like an empty room
"that you could take over for a while."
'Cause you know like the-
- It's a storage closet.
- Yeah, it's a storage closet.
No, it was a nice room.
And it was, you know, the Louvre is like a big rectangle
because it was a palace
and there's the big park in the middle
with the pyramid and the gardens and all that.
It's not the primary entrance.
It's one of the side museums,
which I think is technically the museum
of like decorative arts.
So when they came to pick me up,
they met me on the street
and we entered through a museum door
and you went past some exhibitions.
Then on the way to their room, they were like,
"Oh yeah, that's Napoleon's throne."
And there were all these,
it was a part of the museum that had, you know,
furniture or like you'd look in and be like-
- Artifacts, yeah.
- Artifacts, or this is a recreation of a room
that was in a well-known Chateau 500 years ago.
So it was in that area.
And then, you know, you went up to a floor
and you know, it was offices.
So, you know, you're in this beautiful building,
but the rooms are a little bit institutional.
But then they had this nice room
and there was like a view out
into the beautiful central garden area.
Then you went down to where they were keeping their gear
and there's like these 30 foot high ceilings
and columns and stuff.
It was like, cool, you know, you're a little bit,
you're not in like an exhibition room,
but it was still, you had really had a sense
of being in there.
- That's crazy.
- Yeah, and they have a cool setup.
A lot of times I think they all just,
they sit around a table.
Just like, just so different than,
also 'cause Phoenix never had a drummer.
They've always had a great drummer who plays with them live.
But like you said, they were approaching rock music
from this, you know, more like electronic Daft Punk way.
But anyway, I'm picturing us flying.
I don't know if that, how long,
if they have the Louvre after this album,
but I'm picturing us flying to the Louvre,
like big Mad Men style cardboard posters.
We're making our presentation, just like,
here's out guys, Phoenix and Phoenix,
very influenced by the Eagles.
We just started like drafting up album covers.
You guys could have a lot of fun with cactus imagery.
You guys could do a little bit of Wild West dress up.
- You're converting an abandoned Vons
into your recording studio.
(laughing)
- Right, from the Louvre to the abandoned Vons.
- That would rule.
- I'm sure somewhere out in deep, like Bisbee, Arizona,
they could find an old silver mine.
- I'm sure.
- Okay.
- Let's do this.
- The year 2000, let's do this.
Phoenix is starting out over in Paris.
And meanwhile in the US, at number five,
we have Sisqo with "Incomplete"
from his album, "Unleash the Dragon."
Is this the same album as the thong song?
- "Unleash the Dragon?"
Yes.
- Okay, this is the thong song album.
So that's like the massive hit.
And then there's like...
- Ballad.
- Ballad.
♪ Fancy restaurants ♪
- Ooh, fancy restaurants.
- "Unleash the Dragon."
♪ Got a bank account ♪
♪ Bigger than the law should allow ♪
- The law.
- "Got a bank account bigger than the law should allow."
- So thong song comes out February 15th.
"Incomplete" comes out July 25th.
- Okay.
- So you gotta imagine like thong song
is the song of the summer.
- Yep.
- It's riding the charts.
And then "Incomplete" comes out mid thong song hysteria.
- Right.
- Dude, this is probably because...
- This is 2000.
I'm driving for Dommy's.
- Wow.
- Yep.
- Amazing.
- Are you hearing thong song on the radio?
- All the time.
- At Donny's?
- Yeah, it was definitely heavy
on the terrestrial radio in 2000.
♪ And I don't see that without you girl ♪
♪ My life isn't complete ♪
- Oh, wow.
- Oh yeah, I remember.
My life isn't...
Okay, this sounds familiar.
- Thong song was never a number one hit.
It hit number three.
This hit number one.
- Whoa.
- Is that correct, Matt?
- Wow.
♪ I remember it just like it was on yesterday ♪
- This is putting Jake to sleep.
- No, I'm down.
I like this feel.
But it's late.
It's 1130 where I am.
- All right, let's pick up the pace.
Okay.
- Yeah, let's get some thong song on here.
- Thank you, Cisco.
The number four song in 2000,
"Matchbox 20" with "Bent".
- Oh.
- "Bent".
- Oh, that'd be perfect for Tomah.
- "Matchbox 20".
- Oh yeah.
- No, no.
- No, man.
I don't like "Matchbox 20", man.
It's very commercial.
- I could also say, what if his "Matchbox 20" story
was the same as the "Swerve Driver" story?
He's like, "Yeah, we thought 'Matchbox 20' was very cool.
"We love the records.
"We've come to the show in Paris.
"The hair was all wrong.
"Guitars, all wrong.
"We were done."
(laughing)
- I know.
I'm so surprised at what gear heads they were.
They went and saw "Swerve Driver",
they didn't like their gear.
(laughing)
That's a wild story.
♪ When my smile gets old ♪
- I'm not sure I know this.
- This sounds pretty rough.
Although I like "Bent" as a song title.
- Yeah.
- Like, get bent, dude.
- Oh.
- I know this song.
♪ Oh, just hold me again ♪
♪ Can you help me, I'm bent ♪
♪ I'm so scared that I'll never ♪
♪ Get put back together ♪
♪ Keep breaking me in ♪
♪ And this is how we will be ♪
♪ How we will be ♪
♪ With you and me ♪
♪ We will be ♪
♪ If I couldn't sleep, could you sleep ♪
- Oh, God, this sounds terrible.
♪ Could you make me better ♪
- You know, I have sympathy for Rob Thomas,
'cause when I hear this,
obviously he's a very talented writer.
- Sympathy for Rob.
- So this is after the "Smooth" with Santana.
- Yeah.
- I don't think the song sounds that bad.
There's like a few interesting changes in it,
but like, I bet he was kind of done with rock music,
but he still had to use these like,
(imitates guitar)
textures.
'Cause he went on to do more pop stuff.
This sounds like a man between two worlds.
I bet he was probably like,
didn't wanna do this anymore,
but he still has the band,
and he had to use the kind of,
2000 is a pretty buff time for rock textures anyway.
- Rough.
- All right, let's move on.
Number three.
- Ooh.
- This Week in 2000.
Destiny's Child with "Jumpin' Jumpin'".
♪ Ladies, leave your man at home ♪
- Wow, this song is 22 years old.
- That's insane.
- That's kind of trippy to me.
This, I mean, on the one hand, of course, but.
- Well, dude, but trip on this.
22 years before that was 1978.
That's insane.
♪ Last week and you stayed at home alone and lonely ♪
♪ Couldn't find your man, he was chillin' with his homies ♪
♪ This week and you're going out ♪
♪ If you try to stop me before ♪
- That song is pre-9/11.
♪ I'll forgot your hair done and your nails done to me ♪
♪ I'll wait and you'll finish your dream ♪
♪ And you'll poop on me ♪
- This song's tight.
♪ And hit the hottest spot tonight ♪
- Yeah.
♪ Find the fellas rollin' in the Lexus trucks and Hummers ♪
♪ So we say he got a girl ♪
- Is this Timbaland?
♪ I ain't stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop ♪
- No.
♪ Please leave your man at home ♪
♪ The club is full of bombs ♪
- So I haven't really followed.
- Who is it?
- Beyonce's work.
- Chad Elliott, Jovan Alexander?
- Yeah, you haven't followed her work?
- I haven't followed her work the last like 10 years
or whatever, but like, is there a world
where she puts out a song that sounds like this now?
Or does she put out songs that sound like this?
- Ah, I bet.
- I'm not tapped in.
- Her last album had a lot of like throwback
90s dance music.
So I could see her doing like a fun throwback.
- Early 2000s.
- Absolutely, I'm sure somebody could make like a,
a taste of this, but kind of update it.
- Yeah.
♪ You're on my new suit ♪
♪ You need to look your best ♪
♪ 'Cause you're turnin' heads tonight ♪
♪ You're gonna find a sexy chick ♪
♪ I just gon' dance all night if you wanna ♪
♪ So we say he got a girl ♪
♪ Yeah, it's true, you got a girl ♪
♪ I ain't stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop ♪
♪ Please leave your man at home ♪
♪ The club is full of bombs ♪
♪ So please leave your man at home ♪
♪ Please leave your man at home ♪
♪ The club is full of bombs ♪
♪ And they pack us full ♪
♪ Go home, go home, go home ♪
♪ And now you better leave your girl with her friends ♪
♪ 'Cause this ain't love ♪
- Whoa, I'm just scrolling through this.
- Wait, didn't we have a long discussion
about this song once?
Can you pause it for a second?
- Did we?
- I can't keep track anymore if we talked about
on "Time Crisis" or I talked about it
somewhere else in life, but I have a memory
of like analyzing the lyrics because it's
ladies, leave your man at home.
And then it's also like, fellas,
leave your girl with a friend.
I think we had a conversation where we're like,
wait, why can't, it'd be one thing
if it's like it's girls night,
but instead it's, instead it seems like
she's just hell bent on just breaking up couples
and reforming them.
It's like a swingers party.
- She's bent, dude. - Ladies, leave your,
and especially if you're in a small town
and you say, all right, you have,
to all the girls, leave your man at home.
And then you say to all the guys,
guys, leave your girl with a friend.
And then they all show up at the same club.
It's gonna be chaos.
We have talked about this before.
- Okay, episode 130.
Jumpin' Jumpin' was in the top five,
which was the top five of the year 2000.
- Wow.
- During which episode we listened to
Incomplete, Bent, Jumpin' Jumpin'.
- Wait, we've listened to. - No.
What? - No.
- I don't remember this.
- No, I think we compared.
- I'm almost too embarrassed to air this.
- We compared the top five songs of 2020
with the top five of 2000.
- That's great.
No, that's great.
I love it.
It's awesome.
- Yeah, the only difference is,
oh, I see, we haven't gotten there yet.
- All right, well, let's see.
Maybe it's not the exact same.
- Yeah, there are a couple songs that are different.
I don't know, maybe.
- All right, well, did we talk about number two,
Janet Jackson, Doesn't Really Matter?
- We did. - Sounds like we have.
Did we like it?
- So. - What are you consulting
right now?
- I'm consulting the. - The Time Crisis Wiki?
- Yeah, the TC Universe.
- Doesn't Really Matter was written for the movie
Nutty Professor 2, The Klumps,
in which Janet Jackson also played
Eddie Murphy's love interest, Professor Denise Gaines.
Oh yeah, this is a good song.
- Oh yeah, this is a good one.
- That little water sound.
- She really sounds like her brother here.
- Oh yeah, this is a good song.
- Oh yeah.
- Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.
- This song is too good to be on the Nutty Professor 2 track.
- Wait, listen to this.
Wait, pause it for a second.
- Why is this on her record?
- I think it did end up being on her record,
but Janet Jackson and her producer, Jimmy Jam,
had to choose between two different choruses for the song.
Initially, Jimmy Jam wrote for the chorus,
"Nutty, nutty, nutty, my love for you."
And then Janet said, "What if it was doesn't really matter?"
And Jimmy Jam said, "I always think it's cool
"if you can somehow work the title of the movie in."
- It's not cool. - But you don't want it
to be forced.
The doesn't really matter chorus is better,
but she liked Nutty, Nutty, Nutty,
and said we should put it at the end of the song.
It would have been a bad idea
to have done Nutty through the whole, wait.
- Nutty, nutty, nutty, nutty.
- I gotta, I gotta, guys.
There's, oh yeah.
- I love that he's talking about it
as if it was like a close call.
Like, tough call.
- The meeting between Jimmy Jam
and the Nutty Professor Paramount people,
the marketing people, where he's like,
"Janet, can you please convince Janet
"to say Nutty, Nutty, Nutty?"
And he's like, I think, he's like,
"Honestly, I'm gonna give it a shot.
"I think I can."
He's like, "There's an extra,
"you know, there's a bonus in there for you or whatever."
He has to say, "You know what?
"I think it's always cooler, Janet."
(laughing)
- It would have been a lot cooler
if the song was called Nutty, Nutty, Nutty.
♪ Come on and see ♪
♪ Gotta get up, get up, get up, get up, get up ♪
♪ Show you that I can ♪
♪ Show you that I'm okay ♪
♪ I ain't seen 'cause I'm not okay ♪
- It's interesting that she doesn't like the song.
Janet Jackson was not crazy about the song.
Jam said, "I always tease Janet
"'cause I don't think she liked the record
"until it went number one."
Just because of the show, man,
you don't know what you're doing when you're doing it.
- Yeah.
- You have no perspective.
- It sounds so Janet Jackson.
It sounds so essentially her.
- I think this is a top five Janet song for me, personally.
♪ Show you that I'm okay ♪
♪ I ain't seen 'cause I'm not okay ♪
- Is she saying Nutty, Nutty, Nutty there?
- No.
♪ What matters to me is your nutty, nutty, nutty ♪
♪ Come and get your ♪
♪ Oh, just what a waste for your soul, love, and mankind ♪
♪ And I can't believe you're mine ♪
- That should be like the Skippy,
like a peanut butter commercial.
- Nutter Butter?
- Or the name you said.
Nutter Butter.
Yeah, it's the Nutter Butter jingle.
- Repurposed for Nutter Butter.
- Totally.
- Nutty, nutty, nutty.
(laughing)
- I'm just saying, I think it's cooler.
♪ My love for you ♪
♪ All that is your love too ♪
♪ Get up, get up, get up, get up, get up ♪
♪ And show you that my love is true ♪
♪ And it's just for you ♪
- Oh, ooh, yeah.
- Here we go.
Oh.
- Nutty, nutty, nutty.
- How'd it go, Jane?
- I can't tell.
- I got tucked in.
♪ What matters to me is you're in love with me ♪
♪ Doesn't really matter what the others think ♪
♪ 'Cause I'm in love with you, with you, with you ♪
♪ Doesn't really matter what they believe ♪
♪ What matters to me is you're in love with me ♪
♪ Nutty, nutty, nutty, my love for you ♪
♪ I can't believe my love is true ♪
- Nutty, nutty, nutty, my love for you.
♪ It's true, it's best of all ♪
♪ You love me too ♪
♪ Nutty, nutty, nutty, my love for you ♪
♪ I can't believe my love is true ♪
- All right, guys, she agreed to do it,
but it is gonna be buried in the last verse of the song.
- Nutty, nutty, nutty.
- She sang it there at the end too, nutty, nutty, nutty.
You know, it's like, this is like
the end of "Start Me Up," Rolling Stones,
when Mick's going, "You make a dead man (beep)."
- Oh, you make a dead man (beep)
- Like, what the (beep)
He just, he drops that at the end of the song.
- This is her "Start Me Up," dude.
She's at the end, she's going, "Nutty, nutty, nutty."
- So she does say nutty, nutty, nutty throughout,
but it goes down so easy.
- Yeah.
♪ Nutty, nutty, nutty, my love for you ♪
- But it really takes over at the end.
- Beautiful song.
All right, and the number one song this week in 2000
was "Madonna" with Music.
- Music?
- Produced by Mirwise,
who is a guitarist for the French pop band, Taxi Girl.
- Oh, too bad we don't still have Tomas.
What's up with Taxi Girl?
- Dude, we have to check out that band, Telephone.
- Oh yeah.
- Ooh, I believe, if my memory serves me correct,
is this the video that Ali G's in with her?
- Yes, Ali G's the limo driver.
- This is where it got off the bus with "Madonna."
- I like it, I mean, it's a good vibe.
All right, but how about instead of this, Matt,
can you just throw on a song by Telephone?
- All right.
- This is Telephone? - What year is this?
Sounds tight.
- It's a great start.
- 1984.
- 1984, Telephone.
- Sounds like something that could be in Top Gun.
- Yeah.
- Nothing wrong with it.
- Yeah, obviously.
- I'm feeling it.
- I see what he means.
This sounds like a New Wave fan
that still loved the Roman sounds.
- The guitar playing is a little...
- Yeah, tasteful and flowery for New Wave.
I like the guitar playing though.
- Yeah, he probably loved Dire Straits.
- Yep, for sure.
- Rolling Stones, but then kind of 80s style.
All right, well, thank you to Thomas from Phoenix.
Thank you to Telephone.
Thank you to the Nutty Professor too.
We'll see you in two weeks.
- Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
(laughs)
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