Episode 202: We Will Pod You
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Transcript
Time Crisis, back again.
As we enter a new era, we delve into an identity crisis.
But that doesn't last long, as we listen to great music from the Grateful Dead, Queen,
Poison, and Marvin Gaye.
This is Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
They passed me by, all of those great romances.
They were a felt, robbing me of my rightful chances.
My picture clear, everything seemed so easy.
And so I dealt to the blow, one of us had to go.
Now it's different, I want you to know.
One of us is crying, one of us is lying.
Keep it only there.
Time Crisis, back again.
Alright fellas, we got a crisis emergency. A Time Crisis crisis.
Seinfeld, you want to walk us through this? What's happening with our beloved internet radio show?
I feel like I should start this off by saying that the Time Crisis remains an internet radio show, but is now available on Apple Podcasts.
My understanding is that this was a decision made by people at Apple Music that they have all this great content, like Time Crisis, Elton John's show, Mark Hoppus's,
all sorts of shows.
And they thought, we can't just have this only available to the people who listen to internet radio, we gotta bring it out to the larger podcast world.
So I think what you have is a classic 80s, 90s indie rock situation where we were out here doing our own thing, internet radio.
And we built something cool, we built a cool cult following, a community, and then a big corporation comes and says, "Hey guys, we want to take you mainstream."
What's unusual about this situation is that it's not Warner Brothers trying to poach us from SST Records, it's the same company, man.
It's crazy, man, it's the same company.
It's Apple, came to Apple and said, "We like what these guys are doing, we want to take it to the big time."
And Apple said, "How much are you willing to pay us?"
And Apple said, "We'll give you a few..."
Apple goes to Apple and says, "Hey, have you ever heard of this show?"
Actually, I was just reading about this when Nirvana was famously on Sub Pop Records, they put out Bleach on Sub Pop.
And then Geffen came to them and said, "We want to sign Nirvana," and I think Nirvana was ready to take that step to a major label.
And Geffen paid Sub Pop $75,000 to get them out of their contract, but they guaranteed Sub Pop three points on the next two Nirvana albums.
Three points meaning 3% of, I don't know, I guess the list price.
The net or the gross?
Yeah, that's a good question. Maybe the gross, I don't know.
But, you know, three points, 3% of something might not sound like enough, but 3% of Nevermind, that saved Sub Pop.
And then, of course, Bleach started selling too.
So, apparently Sub Pop was on the verge of going bankrupt right before that all happened.
Yeah, so in this case, I think Apple Podcasts went to Apple Music and said, "We'll give you $75,000 for TC plus three points on the podcast revenue."
Let's get these guys out of the backwoods and into the spotlight, into the acid glare of mainstream podcast culture.
We used to have a cool kind of small community of us, Elton, Mark Hoppus.
I mean, I remember St. Vincent still do a show.
I mean, the truth is only-
Heim Sisters.
Heim Time. I don't think they've done that in a minute.
The only people who've been doing it from the jump at this point without breaks, I believe this is true, is Time Crisis and Elton John's show.
But we had this cool kind of small, culty community based in the small college town of Los Angeles.
And then just us and Elton and the crew making zines, doing internet radio the way we wanted to.
And now they're throwing us out there in the mainstream with the Joe Rogans and the Dax Shepherds and the Office Ladies.
How many TC heads are now going to say, "I was there back in the day. These guys sold out."
It definitely changed them.
It went to their heads.
A truly hardcore TC head would be like, "I've listened to that internet radio show for a long time."
The truth is a lot of moderate TC heads, if you probably said to them, "You're that Time Crisis is in the podcast store."
Some of them might say, "It wasn't? It's a podcast."
I mean, I'm sure you guys can relate to it.
I can't tell you how many times over the years people have said they love the podcast, they listen to the podcast.
Heard you got yourself a little podcast.
I even recently had a bio for something that I had to approve.
And it said, "Ezra Koenig, Vampire Weekend."
And it said he has a podcast called Time Crisis. I had to correct it.
I wanted to say that I did tweet about this today.
And the response has been very favorable.
People seeming to think that the show will become more accessible and that they can find it more easily.
And so I'm a little worried, like, Jake, how are you going to step outside the house without getting swarmed?
Like, when I wear my Fox News grandpa shirts to the coffee shops in Highland Park,
you know, when I'm rocking Breaking News, I don't care.
[laughter]
At Kumquat in Highland Park on York Boulevard, it's going to be...
It's Beatlemania.
Yeah, it's going to be tough for me.
But I'm psyched. I feel like this is a new chapter of the show.
And I'm ready to really step it up.
And you know what, guys? I think we got to ditch our kind of...
We got to stop holding onto the past.
We got to do what a lot of the great independent-minded bands that signed to majors did,
which, whether you're talking about Nirvana or, you know, Dinosaur Jr. or something,
we got to say, you know what? Enough with the indies, with this internet radio sanctimony.
We grew up on podcasts, man.
The same way that Kurt or J. Mass could say, you know what?
I'm sick of this Discord Records sanctimonious pricks.
You know who I grew up listening to, man?
KISS. Led Zeppelin.
Hey, ever heard of the f***ing Beatles?
Yeah, they're on Capitol Records.
And I'm sorry if that doesn't pass your little punk rock purity test,
but I'm actually, like, proud to maybe get my music out to a few more people.
And I think we say the same thing.
We grew up on the podcast app.
Are you kidding me, man? We've taken down hours of content.
I remember Cereal by my cousin.
Not actually. People always ask me that.
That's blood, man. You want me to betray my blood?
I literally had people in my family breaking, doing podcasts back in the day.
I like in this analogy how Cereal is like the band KISS.
[laughs]
You show us everything you've got
You keep on dancing and the room gets hot
You drive us wild, we'll drive you crazy
You say you wanna go for a spin
The party's just begun, we'll let you in
You drive us wild, we'll drive you crazy
You keep on shouting, you keep on shouting
I wanna rock and roll all night
And party every day
I wanna rock and roll all night
And party every day
I wanna rock and roll all night
And party every day
I wanna rock and roll all night
And party every day
And here's one for the real heads. Do you know what the first podcast was?
Yeah, it was a Grateful Dead song.
So honestly, I don't have time for this, man.
Anybody who doesn't remember, this is true. The first podcast was a Grateful Dead song.
I don't think we need to explain that.
Either you know or you don't know, but the first podcast was a Grateful Dead song.
Do we agree that this is still an internet radio show regardless of the new context?
Yes, because it's broadcast on Saturday, 3pm Pacific.
Yeah, exactly. And to keep this analogy going, it's kind of like when punk bands sold out
and then years later, they're getting asked some questions about it.
So you know, there's a lot of controversy back then when you signed to a major.
And they say, "Well, you know what I gotta say, man?"
I'm just like picturing some dude from a band who's now like 42.
He's like, "I gotta tell you, man, we've charted our own course for the last 10 years,
whether it's in the indie system or on the majors, and we still make the music we want to.
We still put on a kick-ass show. We do what feels right to us.
And honestly, I think that's pretty freaking punk rock. How about that?"
And I think that's the same energy we need to bring.
Where it's like, we still talk about corporate food history, have a smattering, a light smattering of guests,
dig into the tasteful palette of the 1970s, compare songs.
And if that's not internet radio, then I don't know what is, man.
Because I don't care where you find it, what we do is internet radio.
It's pure internet radio. I don't care if you download it from the podcast store.
What's the internet radio version of then making like kind of rockabilly country albums?
Because that's the classic. If you're in a punk band, if you're in like bad religion or whatever,
now you're 42, you're making your rockabilly country record.
Is that going to be when we go just full health and fitness?
Okay, yeah. Just like pure bro science.
Yeah. When we become Huberman husbands?
We start hawking our supplements.
Yeah, exactly. And then it'll be the same thing.
"What? You guys used to do corporate food history and the tasteful palette of 1970s music.
Now you only talk about like what time of day you need to get sunlight in your eyes?"
I'm just be like, "Oh my God, you're so basic."
If you can't see the connection between those things,
I don't have time to walk you through the entire history of internet radio and podcasting.
All right. But if you don't see the shared roots of those things, man, whatever.
TC Electrolytes.
That sounds kind of good.
But I'll tell you, just as if we're Green Day getting ready to make American Idiot,
we have to make a commitment to each other right now that we're going to,
the old school punk rock purists, they may never accept us, but we're here.
And even though we're part of the podcast world now,
we got to never forget what made us pick up those instruments
and play those early shows on Gilman Street back in the day.
All right. We got to keep, we'll always stay true to the TC ethos
and we'll always come back to our core topics.
Always have winter on. That's not going anywhere.
And I don't care if...
Winter techs always say, "Sorry, dude. We're a podcast now."
[Laughter]
Those guys really changed, man.
You know what? Here's something I've been wanting to do for a while,
and I think this is very TC, and I think in honor of us both
expanding our punk rock values into the mainstream,
taking on the system from within.
[Laughter]
There's something I've wanted to do for a long time.
Let's do a deep dive on the song "We Will Rock You."
Oh, hell yeah.
It's pure time crisis, and yet, maybe because it's such like a regular degular idea,
it's never felt quite right to throw it in there.
But I just want to dispense with what's on the docket
and listen to it because not only is it a great song and a fascinating song,
I feel like I could use some help unpacking it.
What is it all about?
Because I think there's a few surprises in there, man.
I think it's a little bit more than just a song about winning at sports.
Are we doing "Champions" too, or are we just doing "We Will Rock You"?
Ooh. I guess they're kind of one. Maybe we do have to do both.
They're kind of one song, right?
Yeah.
All right. I love this idea.
Wait, play the beginning again.
I love how in the beginning you hear that guy go "aww."
It's really quiet in the very beginning.
I didn't hear that.
Wait a minute. Start it again.
Wait, I'm missing it now.
Wait, start it one more time.
Is it right at the top?
Yeah, it's right at the top.
You hear "aww." It's very quiet.
Is it like studio chatter?
It could be.
The stomps and claps sound great.
You know, one interesting thing about this song, Brian May wrote it.
Hey, look at that. Written by Brian Harold May.
You would think this is classic Freddie Mercury.
All right, pause.
So, okay, this is what got me thinking about this song.
Because, of course, I've been absentmindedly hearing this song my whole life.
Sure.
As I'm sure everybody has.
And, you know, of course, the sentiment "We will, we will rock you."
On the one hand, it's like the band saying we're going to rock you.
Like, we're going to perform rock and roll music so well,
we're going to blow your face off.
But also, it's come to me like, yeah, we're going to destroy you in sports.
We're going to rock you.
Like, we're going to win.
And so, I get...
Okay, that's not what you thought.
I don't think that...
I've never heard that used in a sports context.
We're going to crush you.
Matt's a real sports head.
Can you weigh in?
I just don't think, like, we're going to rock you.
No one says that in a sports context.
No.
Yeah.
No.
Okay.
I do, but I'm also a professional rock musician.
That's true.
You are a music industry professional, so you get a pass.
Well, sometimes if I just jump in and play some pickup basketball
on the 4th Street courts or something,
and sometimes I say, "We will rock you,"
and then if I sink a three, I'll say, "I told you I was going to rock you."
Everybody loves it.
You just walk on the court going,
just, like, stomping your feet twice, and then solo hand clap.
But it just sounds so small.
Just one guy doing it.
What are you doing, man?
Something wrong?
Yeah, we will rock you.
Okay.
Yeah, I know what you mean, Jake.
I guess I mean maybe because I took it in so many years
after the song was released, I heard it in sports context,
so I just assumed it was about winning.
Right.
You'd hear it at a stadium, you're saying.
Yeah, and so you're right.
I just assumed it was about winning.
You're right.
Nobody would say, "I'm going to rock you."
But also, in the first verse, I would always hear that line that was--
you know, like most songs, you don't make out every word,
so I just said, "None of your can all over the place."
I always assumed that was Freddie Mercury telling the antagonist of the song,
"I'm going to kick your can all over the place.
I'm going to kick your butt, kick your ass."
Right?
That's what I always thought.
I thought this was a song about saying, "I'm going to, like--
in some way, I'm going to have a huge impact on you,
whether it's through the power of rock and roll or defeating you in sports.
I'm going to kick your can all over the place."
But I was never sure what the first part was.
And so then when I actually looked at the words
or I heard them more clearly, it got me thinking.
So, the first verse goes, "Buddy, you're a boy.
Make a big noise, playing in the street, going to be a big man someday.
You got mud on your face, you big disgrace,
kicking your can all over the place, singing, 'We will, we will rock you.'"
And I realized, oh, he's talking about a child who's--
Who's going to be a big man someday.
And the kid's just kicking a can.
It's like a kid from the '30s.
He's literally kicking a can.
He's literally kicking a can, like, "Oh, kicking your can down the road."
Just like a kid without a lot of toys.
Uh-huh, sure.
Maybe Freddie Mercury's talking to himself,
though Brian May wrote this.
But he's talking about a child who's going to be a big man someday,
but now maybe he's, like, poor.
He's got mud on his face.
Normally, if you saw a kid got a little mud on their face playing outside,
you wouldn't call them a big disgrace.
But clearly, there's some, like, deeper emotion here.
This is like a nasty little kid, a disgraceful little kid,
mud on their face, and they're kind of pathetic.
Because kicking a can is a kind of symbol of being pathetic, right?
Just kicking a can, right?
Yeah, yeah.
You got nothing else going on.
I think futile anger, do you know what I mean?
Like, you're just mad, and you're just walking down the street
and just kick a can.
You got nothing else to do.
Yeah, I'm just kicking a can.
Misplaced anger or something like that, maybe.
And is the kid singing the chorus?
Well, yeah, that's what I wonder, because he's saying,
"You're kicking your can all over the place singing 'We Will Rock You.'"
So I'm imagining it's almost some, like--
is it some kid in, like, a war zone or something?
Or just, like, in some, like, kind of brutal--
I don't know, I'm picturing just, like, the streets of, like,
a kind of, like, bombed-out English city in the '50s.
This kid, he's got mud on his face, big disgrace,
and he's just, like, kicking this can, just being like,
"Ah, we will rock you."
Like, it's this fantasy.
So he's talking to a kid who's fantasizing about one day
being a big man who will rock you.
But he's also being kind of dismissive of this kid.
He's like, "You think you're going to rock anybody?
Look at yourself."
I think you're right, too.
This is, like, immediate post-war British landscape.
It's muddy.
The country is, like, rebuilding,
but it's still pretty thrashed.
There's, like, food rationing.
I'm picturing, like, yeah, just, like, depressing,
homogenized British housing developments.
Like, you know, real kind of Pink Floyd
and, like, the Who kind of landscapes.
Totally.
And you always hear from these people--
even I remember back in the day reading Morrissey's biography,
and Morrissey's younger than Brian May,
but he talked about growing up in Manchester in the '60s,
and he said there were still piles of rubble
20-plus years after World War II.
So what year was Brian May born?
Could I get a number crunch?
I'm going to guess...
-19... -'46?
Oh, yeah, '50? Yeah, '50s.
I'm going to guess.
It was 1947.
-Oh. -Wow.
He's my dad's age. Wow, that's crazy.
So he was 30 when this came--
because this song was released in '77, the year of my birth.
And the year of punk rock. And Kanye.
And Elvis dying. Big year.
Yeah, big year.
Summer of Sam, talking about '77.
So, right, so, okay, so Brian May was born--
Reggie Jackson did three home runs in the World Series.
'77's a huge year, dude.
-It is massive. -We were in October.
You were born in a huge year.
You made it a huge year.
And, right, so '47, he's born two years after the war.
And where did he grow up?
Brian May grew up in Hampton Hill, Middlesex, England.
Don't know where that is.
Don't know where-- that sounds like the country.
But regardless, I'm sure he spent some time in cities.
Went into London, went into, I don't know, Birmingham.
Yeah.
A kid born in 1947 in England, a lot of them at least,
would 100% might have had moments
where they were literally playing with their friends
in a bombed-out building.
-Rubble. -For sure.
Shrapnel.
Yeah, they might even come across, like, a grenade
that didn't go off, something like that.
-Yeah. -Anyway, so, yeah, I'm with you.
There's a kid post-war Britain kicking their can all over the place.
So let's see what happens in verse two.
♪ Buddy, you're a young man, hot man, shining in the street ♪
♪ Gonna take on the world someday ♪
♪ You got blood on your face, a big disgrace ♪
♪ Waving your banner all over the place ♪
♪ We will, we will rock you ♪
♪ Sing it now ♪
♪ We will, we will rock you ♪
Okay, so obviously in this song, each verse is jumping in age.
He went from being a boy to a young man to an old man.
So in the young man verse,
♪ Buddy, you're a young man, hard man, shouting in the street ♪
♪ Gonna take on the world someday ♪
♪ You got blood on your face, you big disgrace ♪
♪ Waving your banner all over the place ♪
So that's interesting.
Like, now I'm picturing some guy either in his teens or 20s,
you know, the classic angry young man.
He's out there, now he's shouting in the street.
He's not just kicking his can.
And he's also-- he's got more agency now.
He's waving his banner all over the place.
Like, maybe he got involved in a political movement.
Maybe he's just, like, supporting a soccer team or something.
He's a soccer hooligan, or he's, like, a weird fascist?
Yeah, right.
Which all would make sense in '77 England.
And also, you got blood on your face.
But this is what's interesting to me.
You're still a big disgrace.
In Brian May's eyes, you're still a big disgrace.
If you wondered if this was a song about, like, a kid who had it tough,
but then, like, took over his own life, certainly not yet.
You're still a big disgrace.
You used to play with cans, and now you probably, like, get in fights.
You probably go get drunk, and then you get in fights.
You got blood on your face.
You're still a big disgrace.
This time, he doesn't say, "Sing it," but he just goes,
"We will, we will rock you."
Sing it!
We will, we will rock you.
So then you almost wonder, is the Brian May, is, like, the narrator
now telling this dude, "No, we will rock you"?
Like, okay, all right, you grew up.
Like, you could kind of see somebody be like, "Okay, all right, little man.
Oh, I see you're--okay, now you're a hard man.
Okay, you still singing your little song?
You want to rock me?
How about I'm going to rock you?
How about that?
No, no, you're not going to rock us.
We're going to rock you."
And then it kind of gives a little bit of, like, street fight, rumble energy.
Because now I'm starting to feel like, does Brian May hate this guy?
Well, right.
I mean, maybe this is--now I'm thinking that it is the guy.
It is the kid, and then the young man, and then the old man singing,
"We will rock you, we will rock you."
But it's like, instead of being a triumphant chorus of, you know,
"We're going to win the game," it's like the oppressed masses who--
Right, so they want to rock something so bad.
Yeah, it's kind of like a sad, dark--very TC here.
Yeah.
I really never thought about this song lyrically.
But, like--
Yeah, now I think it's like a really sad, dark anthem of, like,
people who are frustrated and, like, feel cast out.
And they're just like--
It's a song for the losers.
Kind of, yeah.
And that actually is interesting that then they--it's always combined with
"We are the champions" because that's a song for champions.
But this song is for losers.
And also, Brian May seems like a gentle guy.
He's very intelligent.
He's one of my first celebrities I ever met.
I vaguely remember this story.
Was that at a museum?
Yeah, at the British Museum.
You just saw him sitting there?
I saw him waiting outside the bathroom, so I came out of the bathroom.
I can't remember exactly which trip this was.
Was this pre-vampire or post-vampire?
Oh, yeah, way pre-vampire.
I might have been 14 or maybe I might have been--
Oh, wow.
I think--maybe I was--yeah, maybe I was a kid.
I don't know.
But I remember at the time thinking--and I was already pretty into music
and stuff, and my dad had the Road Warrior soundtrack,
the Mel Gibson film.
And I would sometimes look at that record, which is done by Brian May,
and I thought that would be a cool thing to lead with, like,
"Oh, hey, man, I love the Road Warrior soundtrack."
Thankfully, I didn't do that because later I found out
that's a different guy named Brian May.
[laughs]
Oh, man.
Thank God.
I probably would have been so embarrassed and cringed out.
I probably would never have started a band if he had said not me.
And he was--I could tell he probably didn't want to be bothered,
so I just went and said--like Chris Farley should have stopped.
"Are you Brian May?"
And he was like, "Yes."
And I was like, "Oh, that's awesome."
[laughs]
That was it.
Anyway, back to the song.
Third verse, "Buddy, You're an Old Man."
♪ Buddy, you're an old man, poor man ♪
♪ Bleeding with your eyes, gonna make you zombie someday ♪
♪ You got mud on your face, big disgrace ♪
♪ Somebody better put your bag into your place ♪
All right.
Yeah, I mean, this is crazy when you really look under the hood on this song.
Yeah.
♪ Buddy, you're an old man, poor man ♪
♪ Pleading with your eyes, gonna make you some peace someday ♪
Wow.
♪ You got mud on your face, big disgrace ♪
♪ Somebody better put your bag into your place ♪
So he's like an old dude pleading with his eyes.
That's very evocative.
I've never actually heard that in the song.
So it's like a sad eyed--
A sad eyed--
Old man.
And he's a poor man.
He didn't make it.
No, it's not working out.
He was the kid in the bombed out alley kicking a can all dirty.
And then he got-- when he finally had a little bit of, you know, energy and muscle as a young man,
he waved his banner and he got in fights.
But did that go anywhere?
Did he channel that energy into something productive?
No.
He's an old poor man pleading with his eyes.
And this line, "Gonna make you some peace someday."
I imagine that that's like a guy who-- he's an old man, so time's running out,
but he's still saying to himself, "I'm gonna get-- I'll find myself some peace one day."
But maybe Brian May--
Or you think that was the narrative?
I thought it was like--
I thought Brian May's gonna make you some peace someday.
No, he's gonna find peace like when he's dead.
Oh, right.
That's how I thought of it.
Oh, yeah, even darker.
Right, so he's just pleading with his eyes basically like, "Lord, kill me."
And then what does this sad bastard still have on his face?
Mud.
[laughs]
Went from mud to blood, back to mud.
Back to mud.
You're hoping by the time this guy's an old guy--
I mean, even if he never started a band like Queen or got rich or something,
you would hope that at the very least he might have a few grandchildren
keep an eye on him, come visit him, sit in a quiet little apartment,
have a cup of tea, watch the football.
But no, not this guy.
For some reason, he's still got mud on his face.
I don't know if he's still working or he's homeless or--
Something went wrong.
And then the final line, "You got mud on your face, big disgrace.
Somebody better put you back into your place."
It's truly--it's like you tried and you failed, man, from ashes to ashes.
You waved your banner.
You got your ass kicked.
Now you're an old man.
He's basically saying, "Get back in your place. Game's over."
I mean, it seems like he's in his place.
He's pleading with his eyes.
He's on death's door, but I get it.
It's like a nice kind of conclusionary line.
Maybe it's kind of like Queen is triumphantly marching
through this working-class town, and this old man that they knew from childhood
kind of steps outside with his pleading eyes, mud on his face,
and he's kind of like, "Oh, boys," and they're just like,
"Shove him back in the house. Get back in your place."
We will rock you.
We will rock you.
And then that makes me wonder, too, if it's--
what does the song really sing?
Is it about--does Brian May--and Freddie Mercury with his iconic delivery.
He bears some responsibility, too.
I know that the artist's intent doesn't always matter,
but would you like to know what Brian May meant?
Ooh, okay.
Now that we've walked through it.
Yes.
Do you want to hear it directly from the horse's mouth?
Brian May, this is my absolute hatred of the working-class boys
who picked on me as a child.
It's brought me nothing but joy to see their failed lives.
So this is straight from Brian's brain.
"I have this story in my head about the power of a person as he or she ages.
The three verses would be the three stages of life--childhood, young adulthood,
and old age." All right, so we followed so far.
"The first verse was being a kid, wondering if you're going to make
a mark in the world.
As a young adult, we feel the power we have.
We get angry about things, and we try to change them.
And the last verse is about old age and acceptance.
By then, you have to pick and choose your fights and maximize your effect.
It's the evolution of someone who wants to change the world,
who never quite gets a handle on his rage but learns to live with it.
It's what you dream of and hope for the frustration you face.
In my songs, there's always an element of irony.
'We will rock you' is a cry full of surety and confidence
that will rock everything.
But it's also a realization that our power is limited."
- Whoa. - I think we were pretty much on the money.
We were on the--no, on the money.
His just has more hope, I guess, in the acceptance.
The one thing that Brian maybe has forgot,
I'm sure whenever he was doing this interview,
is that he doesn't really resolve it for the dude.
Which, understandably, this is like an aggressive song.
It's an aggressive, minimalist, like, boom, boom, kshh.
- Yeah. - There's no happy ending here.
- So if-- - No, that's what he's--
but that's what he's saying that's interesting.
It's just how you read it.
He's saying this acceptance, it isn't resolved.
I'm not going to be able to--you're not going to be able to do
these things that you wanted to do.
You just take--that acceptance you either take as a bummer...
- Yeah. - Or some kind of maybe relief.
- Well, that--you know what? - Who did we say was Dow?
Who are we talking about? The Dow of Buffett?
- We said the Dow of Buffett. - Yes.
That's sort of similar.
No, there is something definitely, I mean,
that's certainly spiritual in this.
And that is pretty deep, because I didn't even--
even when I was thinking about it, I mean, I knew it would be more fun
to talk about it with you guys.
So I only half thought about it when it crossed my mind.
But that "We Will Rock You" is about surrender.
- That's deep. - Yes.
Yeah, "We Will Rock"--because maybe it's like,
"We Will Rock You," but also, you're not going to rock anybody, man.
The universe is going to rock you.
That's how it goes.
I don't care if you're the king of England, man.
You don't do the rocking.
The universe does the rocking.
And so, yeah, so finally, somebody better put you back into your place,
and then let's listen to the rest, the outro.
♪ We will, we will rock you ♪
Sing it!
♪ We will, we will rock you ♪
Everybody!
♪ We will, we will rock you ♪
♪ We will, we will rock you ♪
This part is so sick.
Yeah, just like--
One of the great guitar solos just busts in.
Yeah, this tone.
And actually, I guess maybe I judged Brian a little too harshly.
I mean, I admire him immensely, but maybe--
I was kind of nitpicking by saying he didn't finish the sentiment,
but actually, he ended the story with his guitar.
With a triumphant, triumphant, soaring guitar piece.
Exactly, and the guitar is kind of what wraps it all up.
The guitar is like that-- brings it all together.
The anger, but also the acceptance, the fighting spirit,
but also the surrender, the irony, as he said,
of ending up right back where you started.
♪ I've paid my dues ♪
Isn't that the opening line?
Yeah, well done, Brian.
And then, classically, it's basically one song
that often goes right into "We Are The Champions,"
but did Freddie Mercury write this one?
Yes.
Yeah.
♪ I've paid my dues ♪
♪ Time after time ♪
It's kind of amazing, like, two dudes,
very different takes on kind of like the same idea.
The trials and tribulations of life.
And they happen to just go next to each other so well.
Yeah, that's some Lennon-McCartney sh--.
♪ I've had my share of bad kicks in my face ♪
♪ But I've come through ♪
♪ And I'm easy going on and on and on and on ♪
♪ We are the champions, my friends ♪
♪ And we will keep on fighting till the end ♪
♪ We are the champions ♪
♪ We are the champions ♪
♪ No time for losers ♪
♪ 'Cause we are the champions ♪
♪ Of the world ♪
It is funny that this is from the punkier.
I didn't realize that until this episode.
Let's go back and look at that first verse.
'Cause even this one, I think there's more going on.
I mean, I guess this is how it always is,
whether you're talking about Margaritaville,
"We are the champions," whatever.
Cheeseburger Paradise.
Maybe not Cheeseburger Paradise,
but it's like so many of the great--
It's such a good reminder.
So many of the great songs,
there's always just like something,
often some deep push-pull thing happening within it.
And yeah, "We are the champions."
"I've paid my dues time after time."
♪ I've done my sentence but committed no crime ♪
That also kind of harkens back to "Bohemian Rhapsody."
Just like, in that song, this guy,
I don't even remember what happened.
He's like, he's going to jail for--
Something about his gun.
Wait, wait, wait, I'm trying to--
Yeah.
I'm blanking out.
Right.
Yeah, it wasn't his fault,
but now he's, Beelzebub is ruining his life.
♪ Mama, who didn't mean to make you cry ♪
♪ I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all ♪
But yeah, I guess another story of a guy who's just like,
he's just got to deal with some kind of messed up situation.
It's like, it's not fair, but it's what's happening.
Yeah, so "I've done my sentence but committed no crime.
And bad mistakes, I've made a few."
All right, he's human after all.
"I've had my share of sand kicked in my face,
but I've come through.
And we mean to go on and on and on and on."
And so, yeah, it's interesting.
Is this song literally about somebody who won?
Or is it about, you know,
being a champion's a state of mind kind of thing?
Is this also kind of like maybe the answer to "We Will Rock You,"
where it's like, life doesn't stop throwing, you know, curveballs.
But, you know, get that sand kicked in your face,
you keep coming through.
Keep on fighting till the end.
See, that's also interesting.
It's like, you know, if you're the champion,
if you're the NCAA champion,
you actually can stop fighting for a while.
Can at least take a few weeks off.
If you're the Super Bowl champion,
you can at least take a month or two off to regroup,
go to Disneyland, take your girlfriend to the Bahamas.
But in this one, the first thing on his mind,
we'll keep fighting till the end.
The championship wasn't the end.
He recognizes, no, no, no, the fighting keeps going.
And so no time for a loser mentality,
because sometimes even winners have a loser mentality.
We got to keep going, man.
And maybe that's how Freddie felt about the band.
You know, Freddie, come on.
You guys dropped so many classic songs already,
"Bohemian Rhapsody," that's crazy.
You could take some time off.
No way, man. No way.
We got to start experimenting with early hip-hop,
walkabilly, and some kind of synthesizers.
Yeah, he works every day.
And he's got no time for losers.
You're either with me or against me.
Our team keeps going.
All right, let's listen to the second verse.
♪ I've taken my vows ♪
♪ And my curtain calls ♪
♪ You brought me fame and fortune ♪
And everything that goes with it.
♪ And thank you all ♪
♪ But it's been no bed of roses ♪
I love this.
♪ No pleasure cruise ♪
Yes, great delivery.
♪ I consider it a challenge ♪
♪ Before the whole human race ♪
♪ And I ain't gonna lose ♪
I mean, "I consider it a challenge before the human race,
and I ain't gonna lose."
♪ And we are the champions, my friends ♪
Ooh, that--
♪ And we'll sing 'til the end ♪
That lead guitar tone is so sick.
Yeah.
♪ We are the champions ♪
♪ We are the champions ♪
♪ No time for losers ♪
♪ 'Cause we are the champions ♪
♪ Oh, we are the champions, my friends ♪
[beatboxing]
♪ And we'll keep on fighting 'til the end ♪
♪ Oh, we are the champions ♪
♪ We are the champions ♪
♪ No time for losers ♪
♪ 'Cause we are the champions ♪
I love Ryan May's, like, attack.
I love his touch.
I love his touch, lyricism, and his tone.
TTL, dude.
Ten out of ten.
Amazing guitars.
And also, this song, it's so sad.
There's just, like, such a kind of emotion and sadness
wrapped up in it.
It's not just like a kind of--
It's not just like a big, like, "Well, we did it!"
Yeah.
There is something so weary about this song.
It, um-- I was talking--
I was playing pickleball not too long ago.
Nice.
For the second time in my life.
Did you enjoy it?
Oh, yeah, I loved it.
I had a great time.
I was playing with a friend of the show, Tomah Mars,
and we were in one--
♪ Rockstar pickleball ♪
A little bit of rockstar pickleball.
[laughs]
And the way the pickleball scoring works,
it's kind of like ping pong, where you got to win by two,
play to 11, win by two.
And so you can get trapped in these vicious cycles
where it's, you know, 10 to 9, then it's tied at 10,
and then it's 11 to 10, and then it's tied at 11,
and then-- you know, you can inch your way up
at infinitum.
And it was totally, like, a casual game
with a bunch of nice people.
But, you know, when you get locked into that,
you can't help it.
At least I couldn't.
I felt very calm until then.
But, like, your heart starts beating,
because suddenly it's, like, match point over and over again.
Even in, like, the most casual, dumb environment,
you have that kind of-- you're like,
"Oh, God, this is still going on.
Now it's, like, 16-15."
You know?
You've been in a situation--
Or you even start to be like, "I want to lose.
I just want this to be over."
But you don't want to throw the game.
You get that kind of-- that kind of funny feeling.
And afterwards, I was talking with everybody,
and I said, "You know, like,
it's a very nice group of people,
but nobody was very competitive."
But I got to say, like,
I don't like getting locked into those things.
It kind of reminded me of being--
playing tennis in high school,
where you got to add in, add out, back and forth.
And I was like, "Yeah, I never liked that feeling."
Like, I'm okay with the losing.
I'm okay with the competitive part.
But that feels high stakes
when you get stuck in that kind of situation.
Did you ever think of throwing it?
No. No time for losers.
I'm dying to hear how this connects back.
Don't you want to know who won?
No, I could care less.
I'm dying to hear how this connects back to the Queen song.
It's actually against the rules of the league
for me to share it publicly
on an internet radio show or podcast.
Rockstar Pickleball League?
Yeah. Yeah.
♪ I could you, could you come tonight ♪
♪ Instead of going under? ♪
♪ I could you, could you come tonight ♪
♪ Would you think it'd be a last December? ♪
♪ I could have been the way she comes ahead ♪
♪ It must have been the day you lost your care ♪
♪ What if I was the answer to your prayer? ♪
♪ Yeah, you need a little candor ♪
♪ Need a little candor ♪
♪ What if we last till it's dawn like you promised me? ♪
♪ Who let the boys build their entree? ♪
♪ Dinner is served, can't you see we're not opposites? ♪
♪ Are you still not thinking of me? ♪
♪ I take all the blame ♪
♪ Is it hard to understand ♪
♪ When it's all the same? ♪
♪ I played all the games ♪
♪ And I stole almost everything ♪
♪ Now I talk to myself and it's quite surprising ♪
♪ Oh-oh-oh-oh ♪
♪ With me ♪
♪ Let's roll ♪
♪ I could you, could you come tonight? ♪
♪ I'm counting from the thunder ♪
♪ I could you, could you come tonight? ♪
♪ I've got a feeling that you know the number ♪
♪ Could I be the best to jump ahead? ♪
♪ Your feet are endless with moccasins ♪
♪ I've never heard another common sense ♪
♪ You need a little splendor, need a little splendor ♪
♪ What if we last till it's dawn like you promised me? ♪
♪ Who let the boys build their entree? ♪
♪ Dinner is served, can't you see we're not opposites? ♪
♪ Are you still not thinking of me? ♪
♪ I take all the blame ♪
♪ Is it hard to understand ♪
♪ When it's all the same? ♪
♪ I played all the games ♪
♪ And lost almost everything ♪
♪ Now I talk to myself and it's quite surprising ♪
Who else is in that league?
Is Albert Hempett Jr. in that league?
Mick Jagger, notably.
Mick Jagger, yeah, Mick Jagger was there.
Actually, funnily enough, Brian May was playing.
I should have asked him.
No, just kidding.
But it's a hell of a league.
It's a hell of a league.
But a game, Smokey.
So then we were talking about that feeling,
and I don't follow tennis that closely.
Nick, you're a huge tennis fan, you'll know all about this.
But there's some famous matches, right,
where it stays on deuce for a long time, right?
Where the match never ends.
And then everybody's like, "Oh, no, no, there's a legendary one at...
Where was it? At the French Open or Wimbledon?"
Can I get a number crunch on this?
It was at Wimbledon.
And I was like, "Yeah, what's the story with that?"
That sounded familiar, but I'm not a big enough tennis fan.
Then Thomas was like, "Oh, yeah, no, I've seen interviews or I've read about that."
Who was playing in that match?
I need a number crunch to tell the story a little better.
The one I remember, I think there was two very long ones.
There was a French guy.
Yeah, it was Mahout, Nicolas Mahout, and Isner.
What year were we talking?
This is 2010.
It was over 11 hours, I remember.
What?
It was insane.
It was multiple days.
They got stuck on deuce for that long.
Yeah.
Stuck on advantage, whatever.
I'll read you.
By the way, as I look up more specifics about it, because it's famous.
So famous, in fact, that Andy Sandberg made a parody version.
You know how you'll do these parody movies?
Oh, right.
I remember.
Three Days in Hell.
Yeah, it was a lonely-- Three Days in Hell, which was the--
Yes.
Yes, which is a parody of it.
I actually saw that, but I don't think I even knew what it was based on at the time.
Okay, so the longest tennis match of all time was famously played between Isner and Mahout.
The first round of the men's singles at the 2010 Wimbledon, Isner eventually won.
It was 6-4, 3-6, 6-7, 7-6, 70-68.
What?
In a match that lasted for 665 minutes.
Yeah, 11 hours and 5 minutes.
Right.
And just for anybody who doesn't follow tennis, typically the number you might hear at the end might be like 6-4, maybe even 7-5.
No, I'm sure people saw the set before this was Isner 7-6, and people were like, "Wow, that's really long."
And then the next one was 70-68.
So that's 70 games Isner won against 68.
Because you've got to win by two.
And they were locked into this for days, and I think they actually changed the rules because of this at Wimbledon.
Now this isn't possible.
And it's also particularly bizarre because...
There's a new scoring system.
And this wasn't even a final, it wasn't even a quarterfinal.
This was kind of early in the tournament.
So then I was like, "Yeah, what happened with that game?"
And then Thomas was like, "Oh yeah, I read about it."
So that game was insanely long, and I was like, "God, it's so stressful."
That's the feeling I'm talking about.
It's stressful when you're at that end, like high stakes.
"If I get this, okay, but now you're serving, oh God."
And he was like, "Well, apparently when that game ended, Mahoud went into the locker room for hours, couldn't speak, was inconsolable."
And he went into almost like a catatonic state, crying, so much emotion, almost like shell-shocked, like he'd been in a war.
And they're like, "Come on, man, we got to clear out now."
And he just couldn't talk to anybody.
And eventually his team dragged him in his clothes into the shower and poured water on him to try to snap him out of it.
And they kind of just carried him out of there.
And he basically had PTSD from it.
And I was just thinking about that, like, I don't know what I thought.
Maybe there's some players who'd be locked into a death match by that, and by the end, they're just kind of delirious and laughing.
But no, this was like, their bodies were probably in fight or flight for three days.
It probably became this psych...
You also can't work, I mean, just as a casual tennis player, I can tell you that no matter how competitive you are, you're not.
And I consider myself like not, you know, like on the normal side of competitive, like I'm not really crazy about it.
Is that you work your body that hard and you play these points for that long, the idea of them losing, there's no frustration level for it.
It's like, it's not even just your shell shocked, you're like, you put your body through hell.
And then to not advance, to lose after doing that, I think is like, I don't even, yeah, there's like no words for it.
It's like, it's not even just the competitive part.
It's like you did, I mean, can you imagine you three days of work and then you lost?
It's just...
And at that point, you probably have a feeling like, well, and you probably feel like, well, that's my career, whether or not it's true.
You're going to be the most famous loser.
Right.
You were the longest death match and you lost.
But one thing got me thinking about is like, even Isner or Eisner, whatever you said, that even the winner is probably shell shocked too.
I guess it just made me think about those guys had basically just been at war in terms of probably how their bodies felt.
Maybe Djokovic never got in those situations because he meditates so much.
He's like, you know, he knows how to just like let it pass through him.
But those guys were probably, it probably felt like squid games to them.
You know, even though the stakes are not as high as life or death, by the end, you probably feel insane.
And I bet even the winner probably went on feeling shocked.
Kind of like when you see like a war movie that kind of keeps it real and like that they win and then they like end with some sort of like uneasy feeling of like the guy gets
home.
And you can tell that he's like all f**ked up.
Like, I won, but like, damn, I'm like, I'm rattled.
At what cost?
And anyway, I guess it was picturing that match and picturing what those two guys had been through, the winner and the loser.
I guess it also kind of made me, that's what I'm thinking about when I listen to We Are The Champions because it's so, we are the champions.
It has this air of sadness beneath it, which I think is that at what cost?
Where it's kind of like trying to be brave in the face of struggle.
I've been through hell.
I've paid my dues.
And guess what?
You're going to keep paying your dues and you're the champion, but also the fight's not over.
And just trying so hard.
The music and the lyrics, the way they work together, it has just such an interesting mix of kind of triumph and failure together.
Don't you think that it's boring how people talk?
Making smart with their words again?
Well, I'm bored.
Because I'm doing this for the thrill of it, killing it, never not chasing a million things I want.
And I am only as young as the minute is full of it, getting pumped up on the little bright things I bought.
But I know they'll never own me.
Baby, be the class clown.
I'll be the beauty queen in tears.
It's a new art form showing people how little we care.
We're so happy.
Even when we're smiling out of fear.
Let's go down to the tennis court and talk it up like yeah.
I just want to read you what Isner said in an Instagram post commemorating the 10-year anniversary of the match.
Isner wrote, "It's something that I get asked countless times about, even to this day, and truthfully, don't enjoy rehashing.
What we both went through.
What started as your standard first-round match at a Grand Slam morphed into a spectacle that even stole headlines from the current World Cup.
Afterwards, I learned that on top of his incredible competitive spirit, Diko is one of the most genuine and kind people I've come across.
And it does look like they both sort of celebrate this, but they don't neither, I'm seeing here, enjoy at all reliving it."
Yeah, it's not funny to them.
It's not like, "Hey, what's your craziest match you ever played? Oh, you want to hear a wacky one?
I mean, by the end, we were cracking jokes."
No, no, it's like, I guess Wimbledon is like too serious.
You know that when the players walk in at Wimbledon, there's a, on the archway, there's a line from a Rudyard Kipling poem,
the Rudyard Kipling poem, "If," which also gave its name to the nutty but cool Malcolm McDowell movie from the '60s.
And there's a line from that poem says, because that whole poem is, "If you can do this and you can do that, you'll be a man,
and you'll inherit the world and you can know how to get through life."
And some of it's like just some pretty good advice.
If you can, you can hang with the crowd, you can break bread with a king, and you can be the same person no matter where you are.
You know, that's a good thing.
And one of the things that says in that poem is, "If you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same."
So, it's from the Kipling poem and it says that as you walk into the court on Wimbledon.
Wow.
And that is some weird, I mean, people for, I imagine, good reason have a lot of issues with Kipling as a kind of British imperialist and a racist.
But that doesn't mean he didn't tap in every now and then, tap into the big picture.
And that idea, that triumph and disaster are both imposters and you treat them the same.
I mean, that's very, that's very Dow. That's very Buffett. Very Dowist, very Buffettist.
Very Buffett mindset.
That's that Buffett mindset.
Well, it's like, yeah, don't let the bad times bring you down too hard and don't let the good times go to your head and, you know, give you too big of a self-image.
Exactly. They're both imposters implying that there's something that the real truth of life, of whatever, is something distinct from the ups and the downs.
There's something else that chugs along, whether you're up or you're down.
And I think We Are The Champions kind of embodies that because it's like, there's triumph and disaster in it together.
You know, and it is about, well, what are you going to do? You just keep on keeping on.
We go on and on and on and on.
So it is interesting. These two songs, We Will Rock You and We Are The Champions, like, as much as I used to think they were kind of just like pretty basic, almost like
meathead, kind of just like.
Yeah. I'd always been confused by these songs because I don't think of Queen as like a basic meathead band, obviously.
And I was like, I was almost like, maybe these are like funny, like parodies or something, like deliberate, kind of like deliberately dumbed down kind of anthems.
So I'm glad you brought these to the table because I will never hear these songs the same.
And they are beautiful songs.
Oh my God.
I would like to think that if I was like 14 in 1977, say I was like a member of Pearl Jam, somebody around that age.
Uh huh.
You know, because just like when I was 14 and in real life, I was very psyched about cool music from 1977, whether it's the Sex Pistols or Talking Heads, punk rock, all
that stuff.
But like, I would like to think I would still be able to recognize the artistry of these songs when they dropped.
Yeah.
They're not We Will Rock You or whether it's Margaritaville or Hotel California.
Right.
That's the best.
He went deep on 77 too.
That's crazy.
Wow.
I just remember.
I keep coming back to 77.
Yeah, I forgot that too.
Hey man, if it came out in 77, it's punk rock as far as I'm concerned, whether it's the Eagles or Queen.
And actually, yeah, in terms of the ideas.
The Eagles are playing punk rock, man.
It's just punk rock, man.
The punks, they turned a mirror on American society and so did the Eagles.
And so did Queen, at least maybe not American society, on the human psyche.
Yeah, well, shout out to Queen.
Everybody should check them out.
There's a movie about them called Bohemian Rhapsody.
Good band.
Probably go rent it at Blockbuster if you wanted to.
Yeah.
Thanks, Queen.
And I hope my hoot's doing OK.
Twice upon a time in the Valley of the Tears
The auctioneer is bidding for a box of fading ears
And the elephants are dancing on the graves of squealing mice
Anyone for tennis?
Wouldn't that be nice?
And the ice creams are all melting on the streets of Bloody Beer
While the beggars stain the pavements with fluorescent Christmas cheer
And the Bentley driving guru is putting up his price
Anyone for tennis?
Wouldn't that be nice?
You're listening to Time Crisis.
Wildly changing gears from 1977 to more like '73.
You hear about this, Jake?
You hear about this Grateful Dead out here releasing demos for the fans to listen to.
You hear about this?
It crossed my desk thanks to you.
You sent it to me.
You sent me a demo of Here Comes Sunshine,
which is a song that Richard Pictures has recently started playing.
For the first time ever?
For the first time ever.
We started playing it this year.
It's a great song.
It's a Wake of the Flood album,
which I guess in October we're going to hit the 50th anniversary of that record.
Oh, maybe that must be why they're releasing it.
And they released a--
50th anniversary Wake of the Flood.
Right.
They released a deluxe version of the record,
and there is a demo of Here Comes Sunshine that Ezra sent over that is cool.
It sounded so interesting.
Why'd you send it over?
Yeah.
I always liked this song, Here Comes Sunshine.
The recorded version is pretty slow, but it's like--
the name you could maybe think is like a touch cheesy, Here Comes Sunshine.
But a lot of the dead songs from this era,
there's a few chord changes that have this mystical darkness about them.
And actually, I think it's right next to the better-known Eyes of the World.
Right before it.
And I think they share a little bit of vibe in common.
Well, the main thing I was interested in is they dropped this demo,
and I was surprised because it's all the instrumentation
playing to a drum machine.
And I guess that just surprised me.
I'd never heard-- maybe there's other ones I don't know about,
but you don't think about the dead and the drum machine.
And I really like it more than the studio version.
Agreed.
I mean, it's like lo-fi--
it's like Jerry Garcia doing lo-fi bedroom music.
Yeah, exactly.
And it's something kind of surprising.
It's very sophisticated, but--
well, yeah, let's throw it on.
This is the Here Comes Sunshine demo.
[MUSIC - "HERE COMES SUNSHINE"]
Titular moment for the album.
[MUSIC - "HERE COMES SUNSHINE"]
What is that instrument with all that tremolo?
Is that a guitar?
I think it's a guitar.
[MUSIC - "HERE COMES SUNSHINE"]
Yeah, I love the lo-finess of this.
You've heard the Jerry Garcia Zabriskie Point recordings, right?
Oh, yeah, the soundtrack?
Those also have sort of a minimal bedroom, indie rock Jerry
kind of feel to it.
[MUSIC - "HERE COMES SUNSHINE"]
Gives me a little bit of Harry Nilsson.
Yeah, I can see that.
Well, this is one of Jerry's songs
that it kind of reminds me of John Lennon a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, I can totally see that.
There's some of his songs that just have real Lennon vibes.
And this is one of them for sure, and especially this recording.
[MUSIC - "HERE COMES SUNSHINE"]
Yeah, maybe there's some deadheads out there listening
that can direct us to other demos.
Because I'm not a scholar by any stretch on this.
I love the idea of a Jerry demo compilation or something.
Yeah, because--
If they exist.
Especially I've heard very little in this middle ground.
Of course, there's a lot of alternate takes,
where maybe the early takes before they nailed it.
And there's acoustic stuff, but this is this funny middle ground.
Yeah.
Somebody should do a drum machine jam band,
and walk up with some rhythm master old school drum machine.
And also, this outro.
Yeah, this is sick here.
I love this.
This reminds me of Kraftwerk.
Yeah.
And actually, there's a few melodic moments
that kind of sound like Audubon, which came out the next year.
Maybe Kraftwerk, somebody made a tape of this,
really inspired them.
Do you know that like, Pol Pol Vuh music
that isn't the really ambient Werner Herzog stuff?
There's some Pol Pol Vuh records--
Oh, like the classical stuff with opera vocals?
No, there's stuff that's like Grateful Dead krautrock.
Interesting.
Where it's like minimalist drums.
Like basically, it's a live drummer, it sounds like, but it's like--
This sounds like Audubon.
Yeah.
[VOCALIZING]
I mean, the Dead and a lot of the krautrock bands
were like groove based.
Right.
So it makes a degree of sense.
Yeah.
Just tapping into the same thing.
[VOCALIZING]
They were also into long songs.
I mean, Audubon's like 20 minutes, right?
Yeah.
This part's so sick.
There's like this weird wah-wah.
He's got the wah-wah in like a weird kind of like,
brassy kind of setting.
[VOCALIZING]
Nice.
Nice return.
[VOCALIZING]
Yeah, it definitely makes me think of like,
weed and like Animal Collective.
Yeah.
Like all these kind of, you know,
like Panda Bear solo albums and like,
just all kinds of, just all kinds of like,
music that would happen in the future.
Right.
I mean, I guess that makes sense.
Like one generation's demos,
another generation's like,
finished products.
Right.
Well, yeah, they see this,
they see it like through a different
historical context.
So it's like, yeah.
Like I'm sure Jerry didn't hear this with the same,
with the same sort of like,
you know, whatever, postmodern kind of indie sensibilities
that, I mean, he couldn't have.
Nobody was like in the studios like,
"Whoa, I think it's done, man."
Pretty minimal.
[laughs]
Do not touch that.
Yeah, everyone was just like,
"Okay, let's throw on some real drums."
Yeah.
"Let's get Billy in here and uh..."
Yeah.
But I love this idea of like,
almost like a Grateful Dead,
like Nebraska or something,
if they had released like,
some weird four-track record.
Yeah, I could listen to this all day.
I love how long this song is.
I know.
I'm telling you, this is a great million dollar idea.
If there's some shredder jammy guitarist,
but you just can't get a band together,
go get a Rhythm King, Rhythm Master,
old drum machine, Seberg,
something like that.
And then, you know, just go play.
Just one man jam band.
One man jam band is good marketing.
I mean, there's a lot of guys that have,
you know, the pedal board with like the loop
and like, you know,
I've definitely seen it.
They usually don't like shred,
or even like,
that wasn't even shredding.
That was like Jerry just kind of like,
kind vibe, melodic noodling.
Yeah, that's what we need.
We need kind vibe, melodic noodling,
and just...
Right.
Can you throw on the studio version
of "No Woman, No Cry"?
What year is "No Woman, No Cry" from?
Are we talking about Marley here?
Yeah, Bob Marley,
before the Famous Live version.
I think the Famous Live version
is like late 70s.
I'm going to guess the studio version.
What's that, Seinfeld?
Okay, the original, 1974.
♪
Yeah, because I always remember
this at a drum machine too.
When I first heard this as a kid,
I was a little bit aghast.
I thought it lacked the magic
of that live version.
It kind of does.
I think we listened to this once
before the show.
Yeah, it's probably come up.
Although it sounds pretty good
next to the "Here Comes Sunshine" demo.
Yeah, this does sound like a demo,
doesn't it?
♪
♪
♪
♪
♪
Okay, now throw in Autobahn.
♪
[engine rumbling]
[engine revving]
[horn honks]
[engine revving]
So this is '74.
It's crazy to think this is all
like the same time period.
♪
It's the same year as the Bob.
Yep.
And it's a year after the Jerry.
Yeah, the same year as
"From the Mars Hotel."
Same year as Scarlett Begonia's.
♪
♪
♪
This is pretty cool, man.
♪
So I'm like San Francisco hipster
playing this for Jerry at some party.
Or I wonder if you'd just be like,
"No soul, man. No soul."
Did a computer make this, man?
♪
Who made this, IBM?
[laughter]
♪
Yeah, there's that descending line.
Yeah.
♪
♪
All right, we're not going to listen to this all the time.
Yeah.
Did you get deep on Kraftwerk?
Weirdly, Kraftwerk was one of the first bands
I got very interested in.
For some reason--
Sense for some weird reason.
Yeah, even though I've never really made music
that particularly sounds like Kraftwerk,
but although I got into Kraftwerk via this weird '90s album
they made called The Mix,
somehow I just ended up with it.
I don't know if I got it through Columbia House.
I don't know if I had borrowed it from somebody.
But The Mix was kind of like different versions
of some of their older songs, I think.
Because when I was at summer camp--
so I must have been 12 or 13--
and this is like, you know, I always liked music.
I already kind of got into The Beatles by that point.
And then I was just kind of interested in whatever I could find.
My dad had an old tape of Carl Perkins' greatest hits.
And I listened to that a lot.
And I especially like the weird songs,
because it had like Blue Suede Shoes and his hits,
but then there also was this weird song called "Lend Me Your Comb."
♪ Lend me your comb, it's time to go home ♪
♪ And I must confess, my hair is a mess ♪
I just remember being really into that.
And there's a song called "Tennessee" that I loved,
where he went, ♪ Let's give old Tennessee credit for music ♪
♪ Da da da ♪
♪ And he's like, as they play it out in Nashville every day ♪
And he's like listing all these reasons why Tennessee is like a music powerhouse.
And actually, it's a funny thing about Oppenheimer this summer.
There's a line in the Carl Perkins song "Tennessee" where he goes--
And don't forget, they built the first atomic bomb in Tennessee.
I wonder what that means.
Did they? I thought it was in New Mexico.
Wait, we need a number crunch on this.
We may have lost our number crunchers.
Yeah, I feel like we're flying solo here.
No, no, I'm crunching. I'm crunching.
Okay, did they build the first--
♪ They built the first atomic bomb in Tennessee ♪
No, New Mexico.
Okay, but Carl Perkins said--
Was Oppenheimer from--
Wait.
Oppenheimer was not from--
No, he's a New Yorker.
Wait, wait, Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
Wait, Oak Ridge, Tennessee was home to several massive Manhattan Project facilities
employing thousands of workers.
That wasn't in the movie.
Yeah.
Wait, the Manhattan Project was in Tennessee.
Wait, Tennessee.
You know what, we're going--
H.Q.
We're going down a road we don't need to go down.
Let's get back on the highway.
[laughter]
Look, yeah, we're not going to figure this out today, but I'm going to say--
This isn't an internet radio show/podcast about history, military history.
I feel like that could be the post-podcast, like the new brand, like we pivot.
Hey, guys, a lot of people this summer saw the movie Oppenheimer.
They think that Robert Oppenheimer developed the atomic bomb
and the first one was built in Los Alamos, New Mexico.
I'm Ezra. This is Jake, joined by Simon Felton.
What's up?
And Nick, we're going to debunk the myth propagated in the Christopher Nolan film Oppenheimer.
I want to just read you the line from--
Ezra Koenig, Mythbusters.
"They make bombs, they say, that can blow up our world, dear.
Well, a country boy like me, I will agree.
But if all you folks out there can remember, they made the first atomic bomb in Tennessee."
Can you throw on Tennessee by Carl Perkins?
I like the thing about an old country artist singing about atomic bombs.
Especially because the whole song is that he just wants to brag about Tennessee,
about how they still play music in the old hillbilly way.
Yeah.
"But when they start that stuff, I let 'em be.
But it makes me feel like I want to brag some,
to know that I come from the state of Tennessee."
"Let's give old Tennessee credit for music,
as they play it up in Nashville every day."
This one rolls.
Yeah, this is an intro for a myth.
I love this tape.
"As they play it in that old hillbilly way.
Mr. Red Foley came from Kentucky."
Okay.
"Di'Ernest Tubbs down in Texas, don't you see?"
Cheese for Texas.
"But if all you folks out there can remember,
Mr. Eddie Arnold came from Tennessee."
Okay, Eddie Arnold.
"Let's give old Tennessee credit for music,
as they play it up in Nashville every day."
I always love this song,
'cause he's just bragging about Tennessee.
Oh, we got some good musicians.
And then this verse just takes a turn.
Oh, got a guitar solo first.
Does he shout out Memphis ever?
No, he's talking about Nashville.
That's funny.
Also a renowned music city.
[playing blues-rock]
♪ ♪
♪ They make bombs they say ♪
♪ That can't blow up our world, dear ♪
Whoa.
♪ Well, a country boy like me, I will agree ♪
Just a country boy.
♪ But if all you folks out there will remember ♪
♪ They made their first atomic bomb in Tennessee ♪
Told you!
♪ Let's give old Tennessee credit for music ♪
Christopher Nolan, you've been served.
♪ As they play it up in Nashville every day ♪
♪ Let's give old Tennessee credit for music ♪
♪ As they play it in that old hillbilly way ♪
[playing blues-rock]
♪ ♪
♪ Let's give old Tennessee credit for music ♪
♪ As they play it up in Nashville every day ♪
♪ Let's give old Tennessee credit for music ♪
♪ As they play it in that old hillbilly way ♪
♪ ♪
Well, I just dropped some knowledge on everybody.
Oppenheimer is totally full of [bleep]
but it looks like the actual truth is that
there was this big facility at Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
Apparently, the people didn't know what they'd been working on
until the bomb had been dropped on Japan
'cause it was all top secret.
But the uranium was enriched in Tennessee.
So Matt Damon's driving between Tennessee and New Mexico
the whole movie.
Yeah, that would have been sick.
He's popping in on Oppenheimer and then he's like,
"I gotta hit the road," and he drives back to Tennessee.
And Oppenheimer-- there should have been a moment
where Oppenheimer is like, "What we've done here
will change the course of history,"
and Matt Damon goes, "Now you hold on one second, Oppie.
Sure, what you're doing here is important,
but it wouldn't be nothing without that uranium
enriched out there in Tennessee.
So let's give Tennessee some credit."
"Well, I-- I-- I-- I--" "Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You give Tennessee some credit.
And don't forget about that good hillbilly music
they play out there."
"Okay. All right."
That's the part in the movie with the--
with, like, the marbles, right?
'Cause, like, they're-- they're slowly--
it's taking them forever to enrich the uranium in Tennessee.
And then-- do you remember that?
Like, they have to fill this whole bowl of marbles.
Yeah, they keep showing him dropping--
what did it kill them to take two seconds to say,
"A few more marbles in the bowl.
Thank you to the good men and women of Oak Ridge, Tennessee
for working so hard."
And honestly, I know the movie was long.
I liked it.
I could have used the scene with them, like,
packing up the uranium in Tennessee
and trucking that across the United States
over to New Mexico.
That would have been kind of a climactic scene.
Just the truck driver singing some of that old hillbilly music.
And what if-- what if in the end,
instead of walking across the lawn to meet Einstein,
it was Carl Perkins turned around
and the truck driver said,
"Rock and roll legend Carl Perkins."
"Oh, hey, Bobby."
[laughs]
"Hey, Bobby.
Your son, record's own Carl Perkins."
"That's right, Robert.
I gotta say I have a bone to pick with you."
"Well, what bone do you possibly have to pick with me?
Not only have you not given Tennessee
enough credit for our good music,
you forgot they made the first atomic bomb in Tennessee."
I wouldn't quite say that, Carl.
You know what would have been sick?
In Buddy Holly's short career,
he was from West Texas,
but he recorded his music in New Mexico.
Oh, I didn't know that.
That was the closest recording studio
to Lubbock or wherever he's from.
And so, yeah, it's weird to think about
all those classic recordings,
all those classic Buddy Holly songs
being recorded in rural New Mexico.
Just making the weirdest music in the world.
In like 1955.
♪ In New Vegas ♪
Yeah.
Anyway, I wish--
Imagine if Bobby had written--
Bobby-- if Buddy had written a--
[laughs]
I don't know, a state pride song for New Mexico.
Shouting out Oppenheimer and Los Alamos.
You know what's funny?
What movie got a little bit swept under the rug this year
that actually is the combination
of Oppenheimer and Carl Perkins
is Asteroid City, the Wes Anderson movie.
Oh, really? I never saw it.
I wonder what you'd think of it.
I've literally hated his last two movies, so--
And I like the early stuff, but, man,
the last two, I couldn't-- like, the dogs one,
I just couldn't even sit through them.
So I haven't watched Asteroid.
Maybe I should give it a shot.
I think-- I can't guarantee that you would like Asteroid City.
I'm not even sure exactly what I thought about it.
But-- and I'm with you, you know, Rushmore,
Bottle Rocket, the hugely important movies for--
And, you know, he's a legend.
He's an immensely talented guy.
You heard it here, folks.
Wes Anderson, talented.
Wes Anderson, pretty talented guy.
Talented guy.
But Asteroid City is a strange movie.
It takes place in, like, the American Southwest
in the '50s.
So there is this, like, looming--
There's this, like, alien thing happening,
and there's this, like, atomic thing happening.
But there's-- and you'll love the soundtrack.
It's a lot of cool, weird, like, novelty
country and Western music from the '50s.
Oh, cool.
It kind of unites--
I'll check it out.
Bobby Oppenheimer and Carl Perkins.
The reason I bring up Carl Perkins,
'cause I had this period in my life--
I think I must have been 13, 'cause I remember
taking the CD and the tape with me to summer camp.
And I love the Carl Perkins tape,
and I love this craft work.
That's amazing.
And I made a painting, 'cause I went to this
kind of artsy camp called Bucks Rock in Connecticut.
It's recently-- there's an article about it
in the New York Times I heard.
What town in Connecticut?
New Milford.
Oh, OK.
It's not that far from where I grew up.
Yeah, not too far.
It was a cool camp, 'cause you could go do
whatever artsy stuff you wanted to if you felt like
being in a play, you walk over to where they do plays
and audition, or you do glassblowing,
you walk over there.
So you had a nice degree of autonomy.
And I was into music, but I wasn't doing
the music stuff that much at camp.
And so a bunch of my friends were into painting,
so I just went to the painting studio,
and I made a painting, which I still have.
It's very, like, cartoony, but it was called
Carl Perkins versus Z-Robots.
And I had some fun doing, like, a kind of comic book font
for, like, as if it was, like, a comic book.
I guess I was also really into comic books,
'cause I was 13.
And it was Carl Perkins smashing his guitar
on a robot head, 'cause one of the craft work songs went,
"We are the robots.
"Bum-bum-ba-nao.
"We are the robots."
So I don't think I came up with anything
particularly inspired, and, you know,
the painting is middling at best,
but I got so into those two things
that I was, like, I was trying to figure out
a way to unite Carl Perkins and craft work.
- I love--and, yeah, you do it in the most literal way,
'cause you're a kid.
I love to think about the counselor being like,
"What is this, a painting?"
And you're like, "You know, '50s
"Rocky Billy star Carl Perkins?"
- And this is probably in the '90s.
And the teacher's probably like,
"I've never even heard of Carl Perkins.
"Okay, I'll take your word for it.
"Carl Perkins?"
- Yeah, looking back, probably most of the people
running this stuff were probably, like,
college students.
- Right.
- It was probably somebody who's, like,
going to school at, like, RISD.
Just take some stoner from RISD and be like,
"That's where I went." - Connecticut College.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- Yeah, I heard of Carl Perkins fighting a robot.
That's cool, man.
- That's cool.
And I guess also, if you're into comic books,
you'd be so familiar with '50s-type stuff,
where it's, like, a guy fighting a robot.
Like, that, you know. - Yeah.
- That makes total sense.
[upbeat music]
♪ ♪
♪ ♪
- Okay, I think it's time to get into the top five.
- It's time for the top five.
Five on iTunes.
- This week's top five, we'll be looking at
the top five hits of 1973,
or this week in 1973.
This has been a pretty random episode,
but I do think we accomplished our goal
as we enter the podcast era,
which is not to lose sight of what makes TCTC.
It's not about the big-name guests,
although we won't turn them down
if we got something to say,
but it's about going deep
on random songs from the '70s.
And I think this has been pure TC, man.
This ep is pure TC.
So if you like what you hear,
keep coming-- - If you're new to the show.
- If you're new to the show, you just--
you know what you just got today?
You got a heavy, heavy dose of pure, uncut TC, man.
Maybe one day you'll tune in,
might be two hours of us talking
with somebody from the Frito-Lay company.
That's pure TC too, but you know,
a different flavor.
The number five song this week in '73,
ooh, starting with a bang,
music legend Stevie Wonder with "Higher Ground."
[upbeat music]
So I guess this song's about reincarnation.
He told "New York Times,"
"I would like to believe in reincarnation.
"I would like to believe that there's another life.
"I think that sometimes your consciousness
"can happen on this Earth the second time around.
"For me, I wrote 'Higher Ground' even before the accident,
"but something must have been telling me
"that something was gonna happen to make me aware
of a lot of things."
What a accident.
"He was injured in a car crash
that left him in a coma for four days."
Whoa. "And resulted in a partial loss of sense of smell
and a temporary loss of sense of taste."
[upbeat music]
- ♪ Whoa
♪ Keep on turning
♪ 'Cause the world needs you now
♪ ♪
- This would have sounded good with a drum machine, too.
I'd like to do a demo of this.
I mean, that would basically sound like
Sly and the Family Stone.
- Mm-hmm.
- Their drum machine is incredible.
- Time Crisis' pro drum machine.
- They got soul, man.
♪ ♪
- ♪ Whoa
♪ Keep on turning
♪ 'Cause the world needs you now
- Well, because it's Time Crisis,
I think we do need to A/B it with Red Hot Chili Peppers.
- Big time.
One of my favorite music videos, honestly.
That Chili Peppers "Higher Ground" video.
- "Higher Ground"?
What's that? Are they just--
They're just playing?
- No, it's--it's like paintings, um...
like stop-motion paintings, basically.
It's animated.
- Oh, I can't picture it.
- This is rough.
- [laughs]
- This is so Treble-y, like...
no groove either.
- [snares]
- That snare is so oppressive.
- ♪ Keep on... ♪
- Oh.
The palm muting on the guitar.
- Yeah. - Like a...
♪ ♪
[imitates guitar]
- What do you think Stevie Wonder thought when he heard this?
- He thought it was terrible.
I guarantee you.
- Oh, man.
That's terrible.
- ♪ Keep on drinking ♪
♪ 'Cause the world needs you more ♪
♪ ♪
♪ Power ♪
♪ Keep on liking ♪
♪ Power, keep on... ♪
- It's so slud-- - It's terrible.
- Yeah.
It's so, like, sludgy and, like--
it sounds like a demo tape, actually.
- I mean, I guess they needed to do this cover
because on the next album,
they actually did find their version, you know?
- They wrote some good songs on the next--
I don't even-- is this "Mother's Milk"?
- Yeah, this is "Mother's Milk."
- Admittedly, the only Chili Peppers record
I've really connected with was "Blood Sugar."
- Not "Californication"?
- No, man, I had a-- I had a very brief romance
with the Chili Peppers, and it occurred in 1992.
♪ ♪
- Okay, can you pause it?
Yeah, actually, this is--
not enjoying this right now.
Although I love the Chili Peppers.
Yeah, I think-- I think it's a good example
where it's, like, they had to--
they're these, like, kind of, like, punk rock dudes,
but they love funk.
- Sure. - They're combining it,
and they're kind of, like, youthful way,
and then they're like, "Oh, let's cover Stevie Wonder."
Like... - Let's do a funk metal cover
of Stevie Wonder. - Yeah.
And I think they did it, and it--
some people got into it, and I think on the next album,
they really combined those influences
in a very tasteful, groundbreaking way.
- Agreed. - The number four song
this week in '73, "Hellin' Ready" with Delta Dawn.
You know this one?
- ♪ Delta Dawn ♪ - I know the song.
- ♪ What's that town where you at? ♪ - I know the Tanya Tucker version.
- Oh, yeah.
- ♪ Could it be a faded rose from days gone by? ♪
♪ And did I hear you say ♪
♪ He wasn't meeting you here today? ♪
- Whoa, the first notable recording of the song
was by Bette Midler on her debut album.
- Oh.
- ♪ She's 41 and her daddy still calls her baby ♪
♪ All the folks 'round Brownville know she's crazy ♪
- This is slow.
The Tanya Tucker version's way faster.
- Wait, this is crazy.
Listen to this story.
One of the guys who wrote this song's name was Alex Harvey,
and he wrote this song about her.
And he said, "My mother had come from the Mississippi Delta,
"and she always lived her life as if she had a suitcase in her hand
"but nowhere to put it down."
And ten years before Harvey wrote this song, "Delta Dawn,"
he was performing on TV,
and he told his mom not to come
'cause he knew she'd get drunk and embarrassed.
And that night she died in a car crash.
- Whoa. Heavy. - Yeah, real heavy.
- So he carried that guilt with him.
- Yeah, he blamed himself, and then he wrote this song.
- ♪ Delta Dawn, what's that flower you have on? ♪
♪ Could it be a faded rose from days gone by? ♪
♪ And did I hear you say... ♪
- He believed his mother came to him in a vision,
told him it's okay.
- In the first verse, she sings she's 41
to introduce the character.
I think in the Tanya Tucker version, she's 14.
I feel like she, like, switches the ages.
- ♪ Could it be a faded rose from days gone by? ♪
♪ And did I hear you say he was a-meetin' you here today ♪
♪ To take you to his mansion in the sky? ♪
- Wait, so who's meeting her?
Jesus? God?
Taking to the mansion in the sky?
- I guess so.
- ♪ Could it be a faded rose from days gone by? ♪
♪ And did I hear you say he was a-meetin' you here today? ♪
- Can I pause it for a second?
There's, like, a lot of-- this is a very classic
kind of folky country melody.
- ♪ Dun-dun-na-na-na-da, dun-na-na-na-na-na-na ♪
- What else has that melody?
- ♪ Dun-dun-na-na-na-na-na from the-- ♪
- I don't know. Yeah, it sounds like a Dolly Parton song.
- ♪ In the firewoods and dun-na-na-na-na-na ♪
- I don't know.
Number three, Paul Simon, "Loves Me Like a Rock."
You know this one?
- Of course.
- This is him linking up with some kind of, like,
gospel singers, right?
- Yeah.
- It features the gospel group, the Dixie Hummingbirds.
- This is recorded at Muscle Shoals.
Like, whoa, weird.
This song is about a mother's love.
- ♪ When I was just a boy ♪
- ♪ And the devil called my name ♪
- ♪ When I was just a boy ♪
- ♪ I say now, who do ♪
- ♪ Who ♪
- ♪ Who do you think you're fooling? ♪
- ♪ When I was just a boy ♪
- Wow, pretty spiritual.
Top five so far.
- ♪ When I was just a boy ♪
- ♪ Sing her a Sunday choir ♪
- ♪ Who ♪
- ♪ Oh, my mama loves me, she loves me ♪
- ♪ She kicked out on her knees and hugged me ♪
- ♪ Well, she loves me like a rock ♪
- ♪ She rocks me like a rumble, baby, she's so lovely ♪
- I didn't figure it was about a mother.
I thought it was, like, you know, like old songs
that call their girl mama.
- ♪ When I was just a boy ♪
- ♪ And the devil would call my name ♪
- ♪ When I was just a boy ♪
- ♪ I say now, who do ♪
- ♪ Who ♪
- ♪ Who do you think you're fooling? ♪
- ♪ When I was just a boy ♪
- ♪ I'm a consummated man ♪
- ♪ Oh, my baby ♪
- ♪ Statue of purity ♪
- ♪ My mama loves me, she loves me ♪
- This part's great, yeah.
- ♪ She kicked out on her knees and hugged me ♪
- ♪ Oh, she loves me like a rock ♪
- ♪ She rocks me like a rumble, baby, she's so lovely ♪
- ♪ She loves me, loves me, loves me, loves me ♪
- ♪ And if I was the president ♪
- ♪ Oh, the president ♪
- ♪ The minute the Congress called my name ♪
- ♪ Oh, the president ♪
- ♪ I say now, who do ♪
- ♪ Who ♪
- ♪ Who do you think you're fooling? ♪
- ♪ Who do you think you're fooling? ♪
- ♪ I got the president, you see ♪
- ♪ Oh, the president ♪
- It's interesting when Paul Simon writes a song like this
'cause he's such, like, a gifted--
he can write such amazing melodies.
It's sort of interesting how him--
he and, like, Paul McCartney sometimes both, like,
write these, like, super simple,
like, almost, like--
they sound like old traditionals or something.
- Right.
- You know what I mean? Like...
Like, it's weird that he's, like, comfortable with, like,
"Oh, this sounds like, uh..."
I don't know, it's, like, not very, like,
adventurous writing musically.
Even though he's capable of that, and he's done it.
- Yeah, totally.
- It's interesting. It's sort of like...
I don't know, I guess they just got, like,
a good groove going or something,
and he's just like, "Love me like a rock."
- Right.
- I just--it's Paul Simon.
You'd think he's, like--
he'd be like, "I'm Paul Simon.
I can't just go, 'Love me like a rock.'
Love me like a rock."
It's so basic.
I like the song, but...
- Yeah, I think a lot of the greats do that.
Like, they--'cause they were raised on folk music
and kind of simple '50s pop music.
- Yeah.
- So, you know, they'll get a little out there,
but it is always rooted in something
kind of simple and folky.
- Yeah, it's just--
- It reminds me of, like, Billy Joel.
You know?
- Yeah, totally.
- You know, if you listen to "The Stranger,"
you know, his biggest album of the '70s,
there's some simplicity, sure,
but, you know, he'll open the song "The Stranger"
with this kind of, like, jazzy, cinematic piano thing
or whatever, you know, and the instrumentation, whatever.
There is some--you know, or "Vienna."
You know, there's, like, a complexity
to a lot of the songs.
And then in the '80s, he made his "Innocent Man" album,
but he had to almost make it, like, a concept album.
Every song was, like, a tribute to some artist
he grew up on in the '50s.
So it's like, now everybody loves "Uptown Girl."
It's one of--this is, like, classic songs.
But even for Billy Joel, dropping "Uptown Girl" at first,
he had to, like, frame it a little bit.
This is my tribute to, you know,
kind of the simple pop music of the 1950s.
- Frankie Valli. - Yeah.
Yeah, or "The Longest Time,"
'cause the sentiment is so simple.
And, you know, he probably, in the '70s,
was kind of like this rougher, deeper time or something.
He probably felt like he was keeping up
with a different type of songwriter,
and he wanted these, like, kind of more intense songs.
He was probably--yeah, I mean, like, wasn't that first,
like, the Attila record?
Isn't that basically, like, a prog record?
- Oh, yeah, he was in a prog band. - Yeah.
Or even, like, you know, in his own way,
like "Piano Man" or scenes from an Italian restaurant.
It's like this kind of, you know,
keeping it real, slice-of-life stuff.
"This is about real life, man,"
or "Anthony works in a grocery store."
You know, I'm telling you how it really is.
You know, it's not that kind of simple old stuff.
But then he wanted to go back to it.
♪ Uptown girl ♪
♪ She's been living in her white bread world ♪
You know, I bet in his mind,
even though now it maybe seems silly,
he might have felt that "Uptown Girl" was an insanely simple
story of class and love
compared to, say, "Movin' Out,"
which is--or even "My Life."
And also, just music--just even musically.
Like, "Movin' Out" and the early--
the '70s hits were, like, big shot or whatever
are so much more musically sophisticated
than, like, yeah, "Uptown Girl" or, like...
♪ For the longest time ♪
♪ Oh, oh, oh ♪
And yet, as time's gone on,
people love that album as much as any.
And you can imagine, like--you can imagine some kid
who, like, loves "Uptown Girl," and they see the record,
and it's like--there's all--
'cause it says it on the record.
There's all, like, "Well, this one's a tribute
to Frankie Valli, and this one's a tribute to the Drifters."
Just being like, "What? What is this [bleep]?"
Like... - Yeah.
- "This is your best album, man."
The number two song this week in '73.
This is a really strong top five.
Marvin Gaye, "Let's Get It On."
♪ ♪
- ♪ I've been really trying, baby ♪
♪ Trying to hold back this feeling for so long ♪
- "Let's Get It On" was originally conceived
by Ed Townsend
and was written with a religious theme.
Gaye's collaborator Kenneth Stover changed
some of the words around as a political song,
which Gaye recorded.
Townsend wasn't happy with this version
and argued that it was not politically conscious,
but a song dedicated to love and sex.
The two wrote new lyrics and re-recorded the song.
- Interesting.
- ♪ Let's get it on ♪
♪ Sugar ♪
♪ Let's get it on ♪
- How could this song be religious?
I wonder what it sounded like.
- I wonder what the words were. Like...
- Maybe it's this part. "We're all sensitive people."
- ♪ We're all sensitive people ♪
♪ With so much to give ♪
♪ Understanding, sugar ♪
♪ Since we got to be ♪
- There's gotta be some terrible '90s alt-rock cover of this.
Oh, God.
- ♪ I love you ♪
♪ There's nothing wrong with me loving you ♪
♪ Baby, no, no ♪
- This was after "What's Going On," too,
so maybe Marvin was like, "You know what?
I just did a political record."
- ♪ If the love is true ♪
- Yeah, it's always been interesting to me,
the kind of, like, resonance of what's going on.
"Let's get it on."
- Yeah, yeah.
That's awesome.
- That could almost be, like,
somebody's lost in thoughts, like, "Man, what's going on?"
Lover puts their arm on-- hand on your shoulder.
"Don't worry about that. Let's get it on."
It's even like he's answering himself,
all swept up in these thoughts about what's going on.
It's like, "Hey, we're all sensitive people.
You're gonna start worrying about the world sometimes."
That's a good thing. - Politics, religion.
- That's a good thing that you care.
Can't do anything about it, but it's good that you care.
Let's get it on. Come on.
- I'm looking up all the covers of "Let's Get It On,"
and Trey Songz did one,
but it's cut with his song called "I Invented Sex."
- [laughs]
- Wait, who?
- Trey Songz, R&B singer.
- Oh. "I invented sex."
- "I invented sex."
- "Invented."
[laughter]
- I don't want to hear that.
- Very clinical, specific term.
"I patented sex."
- "I trademarked sex."
- Oh, I guess by the end of this song, he says,
"I've been sanctified." - Okay.
- I mean, the body and the spirit are connected.
- ♪ This minute ♪
- ♪ Oh, yeah ♪
- ♪ Let's get it on ♪
- ♪ E-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e ♪
- That part's crazy.
- ♪ E-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e ♪
- ♪ I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I ♪
- ♪ I know you know what I've been dreaming of ♪
- ♪ Don't you, baby? ♪
- ♪ Oh, yeah ♪
- ♪ My whole body wants that right feeling of love ♪
- Robert Palmer did a cover of it in 1999.
- Oh. - That's a late--
- I thought he was dead by then.
- I did, too. - Clearly not.
I think he died in the early '02s, right?
I think we'll not subject our listeners
to a Robert Palmer cover from 1999.
- That's when we become full-fledged podcast.
- Yeah. - I just gotta kill time.
We're doing, like, four hours.
- I love the sax on this song. - He died in 2000.
- Yeah, I like it when I'm listening to a podcast,
and they're like, "Okay, how long have you been going for?"
- [laughs] - "Oh, that's enough."
I'm not gonna hear that on TC, folks.
- Not with a tight two.
- Tight two hours. - We're edging on.
- No flights of fancy here. Tight two.
- ♪ Down, up ♪
♪ Get it on, come on, baby ♪
♪ Do you like the meaning of love? ♪
- Oh, a little flute comes in.
- ♪ Ooh, ooh ♪
- I feel like I probably haven't heard the last minute
of this song in a very long time.
Heard the first minute. - Yeah, I like how it just
kind of keeps going. - Very often.
- I like he's really doing that...
[imitates flute] - Yeah.
- I love the thing about him doing--
that's like a separate track. He's, like, in the booth,
just like... - Yeah.
- He didn't do it once, and then they, like, copied
and pasted it under the Pro Tools file.
- Yeah. - He was just like, "Okay, I'm just gonna
keep doing it." - Just be a little owl.
Just keep ooh-oohing, hoo-hooing.
- Sexy owl. [laughs]
- I mean, it's a beautiful song.
And yeah, I mean, we gotta wrap up pretty soon,
but even just, like, looking at the lyrics
as we listen to that, there are these, like, cool--
I mean, it's such a good song, but there's these, like,
interesting moments that I could see that--
I don't know, just give me-- this one's interesting.
I mean, I always love "We're All Sensitive People,"
'cause that does take the song somewhere different.
It's not just about sex.
That part-- "We're all sensitive people with so much to give.
Understand me, sugar. Since we've got to be here,
let's live. I love you."
Just that idea of since we've got to be here.
- That is a little bit religious or something.
- What also makes me think-- I don't know, maybe I got
reincarnation on the mind 'cause of Stevie Wonder earlier,
"Higher Ground," but that's also kind of like,
"Let's make the best of this incarnation, baby.
We've got to be here." - We're in the garden.
- Yeah, we're in the garden. Let's get it on.
Getting it on in the garden. - God said it was cool.
- Let's get it on.
And the number one song-- - This is kind of a bummer.
- This week in-- well, let's see.
I haven't heard this in a long time.
The number one song this week in '73,
produced by Todd Rundgren,
is "Grand Funk" with an American band.
So when did they become Grand Funk Railroad?
What's the story with that?
They were just called Grand Funk to start?
- Oh, here we go. Wait.
"When an American band topped the Billboard Hot 100,
it was the first of two Grand Funk number ones.
It was also their first major hit,
leaving their original manager,
as well as their first single as Grand Funk
rather than Grand Funk Railroad."
So they were Grand Funk Railroad before, I guess.
- Okay. - The new manager said,
"Lose the railroad."
- Yep.
- Honestly, this sounds pretty sick.
- Isn't it Justin Timberlake? - Yeah, I'm not mad.
- Reference the Facebook.
"Lose the railroad. It's cleaner."
- Yeah. That's the original.
- Seinfeld. - I love that.
- "Silent for the last 45 minutes.
Come out the top rope."
- Seinfeld's gonna play the manager,
and the three of us are gonna play the band.
Oh, one other thing, boys.
- "Lose the railroad. It's cleaner."
- ♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're coming to your town ♪
- Okay, this chorus is terrible.
- Wait, what are they actually saying?
Are they saying, "We're gonna party down"?
- No, "We're gonna help you party down."
It's not even like, "We're coming to your town.
We're gonna party down."
It's, "We're coming to your town.
We're gonna help you party down."
The verses are sick.
- ♪ We're a band who returned from the show ♪
♪ Feeling good, feeling right, it's Saturday night ♪
- Wait, this is sick.
Two dudes who meet us in Omaha
was waiting for our band to return from the show.
"Feeling good, feeling right, it's Saturday night."
The hotel detective, he was out of sight.
Is that a thing, a hotel detective?
- Is that a thing? What kind of thing would that be?
- I don't know. Did, like, every hotel in America
used to have a house detective?
- ♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're coming to your town ♪
♪ We'll help you party down ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
- I kind of can't almost see
the "Saturday Morning" cartoon this would be.
- Yeah. - You know, all this--
- Scooby-Doo. - They're coming to your town.
Yeah, and they're gonna help you party down.
- Oh, yeah, totally.
- In that version, they're detectives.
- Wait, did you read the part where it said...
- "House and hotel detectives."
- They meet these ladies.
They was out to meet the boys in the band.
They said, "Come on, dudes, let's get it on."
- [laughs] - "Let's get it on."
- So they were listening to Marvin Gaye, clearly,
and then he proceeded to tear that hotel down.
- ♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're coming to your town ♪
- "We're an American band."
Nothing else in the song is--
really is exploring what it means to be an American band.
- Yeah, who cares that you're American?
- I gotta tell you something. A hotel detective is a real thing.
- Yeah? - It's a person in plain clothes
hired to monitor the security of a hotel
and investigate various security morality
and moral violations. - Uh-oh.
- Oh, it's like an air marshal? - They're partying down in the hotel.
- If there's ladies of the night, we're gonna be working.
- ♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
- They just met a bunch of cool people in the lobby.
They're having a crazy party.
One of the guys from Grand Funk starts cutting up some lines.
Then all of a sudden, that cool dude they met at the bar
grabs him, throws his arm behind his back.
He's like, "Whoa, whoa, what's up, man?"
He's like, "I'm the hotel detective."
I'm--and I--
And with the power vested in me by the Sheridan,
"You are under hotel arrest."
Oh, hell no, man, we got done by the hotel detective again.
- He cuffs him to the bed, puts a boot on the van.
He cuffs him to the bed, blows the line himself,
walks out of there.
- He's like a bad lieutenant.
- Yeah. - The hotel detective.
- Bad hotel detective.
Then he high-fives the busboy.
He leaves with the girls, high-fives the bus--
Sorry, high-fives the bellboy.
- And then they go, "Oh, no, we got done by the hotel detective."
And the busboy goes, "There's no hotel detective."
[laughter]
- Wait, who's that guy?
He's actually a guy from another band.
- I want to hear the Grand Funk song about that,
about getting busted by the hotel detective.
- Yeah, it can't always be fun and games.
Every once in a while, you get to pull into a town
where they don't want to party, or the partying goes wrong.
- That really is one of the dumbest choruses in rock history.
I mean, that's got to be top five dumb chorus.
- ♪ We're an American band ♪
- Lyrically and musically, that's really the pits.
- I actually have one last number crunch
before we finish up this episode.
Did that song chart in the UK?
[laughter]
- Because it was number one on the Hot 100.
- Or were they just offended by the idiocy of it?
Especially because they were probably like,
"Our lads know how to party."
- Apparently, the song was a hit in the UK,
reaching number eight on the UK singles chart.
- Okay.
- And number four in Canada.
- Wow.
- So there were 12-year-olds walking around the UK and Canada going,
♪ We're an American band ♪
[laughter]
♪ We're coming to your town ♪
♪ We'll help you party it down ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
- "We'll help you party it down."
I can totally picture the Scooby-Doo cartoon opening,
where it's like, they pull up in their mystery van to the town,
and one guy's at a kid's birthday party,
and the balloons are flying into the sky,
and he pulls out some unicycle helicopter,
and he brings them down, and the kid's like, "Oh, thanks, man."
Another guy's at a wedding, and somebody almost falls on the cake,
and he grabs them.
- Saving the day.
- They're the party detectives.
- Yeah, and the--well, yeah.
- They're party detectives,
and every time they come to a town,
their antagonist is the hotel detective.
- By the way, you know we should leave on--we should leave on--
Poison did a cover of this that went platinum.
- Oh, please. - Oh, no.
- Great call, great call.
- Let's just end on Poison's--
- We're going to end on a real sour note.
[laughter]
- We'll see you next time.
Please keep listening to our podcast.
- This makes the original recording sound like Hank Williams or something.
[laughter]
- We'll see you in two weeks.
[rock music]
♪ ♪
- ♪ Out on the road for 40 days ♪
♪ Last night in Little Rock, we're being a haze ♪
♪ Sweet, sweet Connie, she's doing her act ♪
♪ She stole the whole show, and that's a natural fact ♪
♪ Up all night with Fred King ♪
♪ I got to tell you, the focus is straight ♪
♪ Fools and ladies, they treat me right ♪
♪ Long as we can make it through the shows ♪
♪ And now we're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're coming to your town, we'll have you partying down ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ ♪
♪ Four young Chiquitas in Omaha ♪
♪ Was waiting for the band to return from the show ♪
♪ Feel good feet rise Saturday night ♪
♪ The hotel detective, he was out of sight ♪
♪ Now these fine ladies, they had a plan ♪
♪ They was out to hang with me and the band ♪
♪ They said, come on dudes, let's get on ♪
♪ And poison torn that hotel down ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We come into your town ♪
♪ We'll have your party in town ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We come into your town ♪
♪ We'll have your party in town ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ Come on, sing it, sing it, play that thing ♪
(electric guitar solo)
♪ ♪
♪ ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're coming to your town ♪
♪ We're gonna party it down ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ Come on, come on ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We come into your town ♪
♪ We're gonna party it down ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ We're an American band ♪
♪ ♪
Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
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