Episode 217: In the 2000s (part2)
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Transcript
Time Crisis, back again.
Today, we talk about two of the most influential movements in American history.
The band Arrowsmith and early 2000s indie.
All this and little else on today's Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
They passed me by, all of those great romances.
The war I felt, warmingly, all my rightful chances.
But picture clear, everything seemed so easy.
And so I dealt to the blow, one of us had to go.
Now it's different, I want you to know.
One of us is crying, one of us is lying, even only there.
Time Crisis, back again.
What's up, fellas?
We're back in Culver City, face to face.
Face to face, banking the Epps.
So we don't know exactly when this episode is airing, but it's safe to say,
whatever happened in the past week or two when this airs,
that this song will be relevant, the song that I want to open the show with.
I don't care if it's June, August, October,
just knowing how things go down in the modern world, in modern America,
there's a 0% chance that our listeners will not relate to this song.
I heard this song on the radio recently as well.
It's been top of mind for me.
There's something wrong with the world today.
I don't know what it is.
Something's wrong with our eyes.
Something's wrong with our eyes.
We're seeing things in a different way.
God knows it ain't his.
It sure ain't no surprise.
We're living on the edge.
This is strong material.
Yeah.
1993, just like--
We're living on the edge.
I'm liking Joe Perry's work here.
Yeah.
It's kind of droney.
Yeah.
Very '70s.
There's something wrong with the world today.
The light bulb's getting dim.
It's meltdown in the sky.
The geeky George Wise Man by the color of his skin.
Next thing you're a better man.
Pretty Larry Norman.
Yeah.
Living on the edge.
You can't have yourself a fine man.
Living on the edge.
Was there a little bit of a Christian overtone in the first verse?
He talked about his--
Yeah, he said something about God.
Yeah.
It's very Larry Norman, actually.
He said, "Something's wrong with our eyes.
We're seeing things in a different way, and God knows it ain't his."
Like capital H.
Capital H, yeah.
Ooh.
Okay, you're losing me here, guys.
Yeah.
Go on.
The cheeky needle tells you that the sky is falling.
Even if it wasn't, you'd still come crawling back again.
I bet you would, my friend.
Again and again.
Yeah, this is all over the place.
That initial kernel of the song is great, though.
Living on the edge.
You can't stop yourself from falling.
I'm interested in this era of Aerosmith.
Let me get a number crunch.
What year was Steven Tyler born?
Steven Tyler from Aerosmith was born in 1948, March 26th.
'48?
'48.
He's 76.
You're 45 years old here.
You really got to give it up for Aerosmith in the '90s.
Yep.
They had these young guns, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alice in Chains coming out in the years before this.
People said, "All right, you guys crushed it in the '70s.
You even had your late '80s comeback.
Like, Janie's got a gun, and dude looks like a lady, and walk this way."
All right, strong moments in two decades, but come on, guys.
It's the '90s.
You're 45 years old.
This is the grunge era.
Nirvana, their opening salvo.
You think we're done?
You think we can't hang in the '90s?
They just come out, and they see the situation so clearly in a way that Eddie, Kurt, nobody else got.
Something's wrong with the world today.
I don't know why.
I really like his vocal here.
Yeah.
He's not doing the mannerisms.
He's just keeping it chill.
It's the lower register for him.
Yeah, and he's not doing the--
There it is.
And I feel like all those--
All rock dudes from the grunge era, they love Aerosmith.
True.
And I mean, I like Aerosmith, but when I think of just the titans of '70s rock, I'm thinking Zeppelin.
Eagles?
Eagles.
All I know is--
CSNY, Neil Young.
The Dead.
Okay, how about Sabbath?
Yeah, Sabbath, Zeppelin.
The heaviest stuff, I'm not a big deep purple guy.
Right, but Aerosmith is top three for these guys.
Anytime you see some interview, even with some kind of punk rock dude, somebody put out records on SST,
and there's always like, "Well, when I was young, I liked Credence. Aerosmith was huge for me." Always.
All those guys born in the mid to late '60s loved Aerosmith and they loved Kiss.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I bet even--
Ian McKay.
Probably loved Kiss when he was a kid.
Steve Albini, rest in peace.
The interesting thing about them is they would have hated the modern equivalent.
You can picture those guys just being like, "What do you think of Pearl Jam?" Just like absolute trash.
But coming up, Kiss and Aerosmith, that really spoke to me, man.
You know, and actually huge influence on my playing, always.
Yeah.
So anyway, I wonder what those guys thought when Aerosmith came back.
Ian McKay, in an interview I'm reading, "Though I liked Hendrix and all that stuff, I liked hard rock, hard funk, like Funkadelic, Cool and the Gang, Lakeside. I liked
Aerosmith."
Always.
Yeah, Kiss had no funk.
Oh.
I wasn't crazy about Kiss.
Okay. If one's gotta go, it's gonna be Kiss.
I was a little bit too dubious of them, the stagecraft. Yeah, too much. It was pomp and circumstance.
Even like a 12-year-old Ian McKay was like, "Mm-mm. Nope."
But what I like about Aerosmith is they have stagecraft without resorting to gimmicks.
Hard-working rock band.
In 1993, were the members of Fugazi picking up this album, Get a Grip?
They're working on In On The Killtaker. They're heading down to the subway for their lunch break between tracking stuff.
And what are they here? Piping in?
Yeah.
In the subway?
"Four veggie delights, please. Four six-inch veggie delights."
In waters.
Can I just get a cup to get water from the fountain?
Yeah, I feel like by that point, those guys were like, "I'm out. I'm out on Aerosmith."
But I could picture Eddie Vedder picking up the CD, throwing it on, and just being like...
Dude, this actually kind of has a Versus vibe.
Yeah, picture Eddie and just Jeremy video, head shaking, listening to this, be like, "Okay. The old-timers still got it."
I can see Eddie singing this.
No harmony, though, with Eddie.
♪ Seeing things in a different way ♪
♪ God knows it ain't his ♪
♪ It sure ain't no surprise ♪
♪ We're living on the edge ♪
Aerosmith really did their thing with 1993's Get a Grip.
We were talking just earlier about the album cover.
So picture this. Aerosmith, the guys are in their mid-40s now, and they're coming in a fully new era of rock.
The grunge era that famously was a year zero that made life very difficult for some of the hair metal bands.
Like, Motley Crue didn't know how to do this.
Nope. They couldn't pivot.
Which, when you think about it, maybe they should have been able to.
I mean, yeah, they all grew up on 70s rock.
Yeah.
And, you know, Mick Mars, famously, was the old guy in Motley Crue.
Yeah.
I think he was in weird psych bands in the late 60s.
There's no reason why any of the hair metal bands could--
Mick Mars was born in '48. I'm gonna guess.
They could have pulled it off, but maybe only Aerosmith had that bird's eye view of what was happening.
And they had done it back in the day.
Aerosmith does have a touch of Spinal Tap in that you look at them through the eras.
They don't quite go back to the 60s.
They don't go quite back to Beatles hairdos and suits.
But even picture Dream On, early days.
It's a little bit more psychedelic and mystical.
Yeah, no, it's kind of like they're trying to do a Zeppelin IV kind of thing.
Yeah, so they come out with what you could say is kind of the tail end of hippiness.
Yeah, coming out in '73, 20 years earlier.
There's definitely a touch of acid, a little bit mystical.
Yeah, this is like Stairway.
Yeah, it's totally Stairway. And his vocal is so...
Like a folk singer. Like a 60s folk singer.
This is Stairway to Heaven if instead of being set in a kind of pastoral English countryside scene,
it was in Boston.
Yeah, that clear, high voice.
Yeah.
Well, you know what though?
This is a weird footnote I just happened to remember.
Yeah.
Steven Tyler does go back to the 60s because he sang on a left bank record.
Really?
Yes, the left bank Walk Away Renee.
Just Walk Away Renee?
I don't know if he sings on Walk Away Renee, but he's singing... I remember I bought like a...
Left bank didn't record a lot of music, but I bought like a compilation of all their songs.
And Steven Tyler sings... I remember seeing in the liner notes and I was like,
"Is it that same Steven Tyler?" And I looked at it and was like, "Yes, it is."
You can picture Steven Tyler being like 19, dressed up in full on psychedelic scarves.
1967.
Yeah, just like hanging out, smoking weed in the studio.
Hanging out in New York.
Yeah.
And a great singer, obviously.
Yeah.
Aerosmith definitely, 1973, it's still like the long tail of the 60s, or forget about the 60s.
It's still the long tail of the psychedelic moment.
You know, I think from like '67 to '74, those vibes are still permeating music.
And you look at like the success of progressive rock in that era.
Right.
The American consciousness had expanded.
People were ready to like buy Yes albums, buy the millions.
Amazing.
And then Aerosmith became more of like an American hard rock band.
I'm sure they were paying attention to like Southern rock and things like that.
They start kind of mystical, then they get pretty just like, "Walk this way, sweet emotion."
Riffy.
All American.
Kind of like, what's some funk in there?
Yeah.
For sure.
You can like groove to those classic late 70s hits.
I mean, oh.
Sweet emotion.
I think that's true of all good hard rock bands are like kind of funky.
You have to groove.
That's why Motley Crue, no good.
Although, it's just, "He's the one that called Dr. Fugue."
That's a little funky.
Yeah, okay, yeah, you're right.
Guns N' Roses, very funky.
Well, sort of.
Not really.
Slash's playing has like a life to it.
Yeah.
This has kind of like a Mr. Brownstone feel.
Yeah.
This intro is so sick.
Aerosmith is funny because they don't have much identity other than just like consistently ruling.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Also, part of their identity is that they ruled, they partied hard, and they got sober in the 80s.
Yeah.
I'm just saying they're the type of dudes, they just, very little sense of place with Aerosmith.
Like, you know, when you think about the other big bands, like Zeppelin is drawing on like this whole literary, pagan heritage of Britain, literally talking about
like Lord of the Rings and stuff.
And then, you know, the Eagles, obviously so Southwest and indebted to country music.
But like Aerosmith, they just know how to, they know what to do.
They're like Steve Miller or something.
Yeah, right.
No sense of place.
No sense of place.
And also, they went from being mystical to kind of all-American.
And then in the 80s, they were able to be...
Global.
And also kind of hang with the glam rock or the hair metal, you know?
Is Steven Tyler in that Decline of Western Civilization Part II?
Yeah, I think he is.
Ozzy is.
I'm pretty sure Steven Tyler's in it too.
Dude looks like a lady.
Dude looks like a lady.
Dude looks like a lady.
Joey Kramer on drums.
I forgot about the horns on this song.
This is like pretty Robert Palmer.
Yep.
She's simply resistible.
What is this song about anyway?
Dude looks like a lady.
Is he being judgmental?
I think he's maybe surprised.
Like kind of like Lola.
Right.
Apparently, the song was conceived after Steven Tyler saw Motley Crue's Vince Neil out on the road
during the band's Theater of Pain tour.
Tyler's first thought was, "That dude looks like a lady."
Okay, so Steven's like the crusty 70s rocker.
He's seen the new LA hair bands who are putting on the makeup and he's just like,
"This is the new thing? Okay, wow."
This also feels like a narcissism of small differences.
Yeah, also wasn't...
Yeah, he was kind of having it both ways.
Painting his fingernails.
Yeah, and he had long hair and...
The scarves.
Co-writer Desmond Child shared,
"They had gone to a bar and had seen a girl at the end of the bar with ginormous blonde rock hair
and the girl turned around and it ended up being Vince Neil from Motley Crue."
It's like a Naked Gun scene or something.
Well, people always say how Lola, which is also a story of mistaken genders, I guess.
But in the end, people often give it credit that Ray Davies was ahead of his time
because he didn't realize that Lola was not a woman.
But in the end, he says, "Who cares?"
Yeah.
Whatever.
Very similar to the ending to Some Like It Hot, for any cinephiles.
Jack Lemmon.
Yeah, there's also cross-dressing and that movie ends with Jack Lemmon saying to this dude,
"You know, I gotta tell you something. I'm actually a man," as he's wearing a wig and stuff.
And I think this is the last line of the movie. The guy goes, "Nobody's perfect."
So I can't tell what the tone of this song is because he says,
"So never judge a book by its cover or who you gonna love by your lover."
Okay.
I can't tell. Is that an open-minded sentiment?
It sounds like that to me.
"Say, 'Love put me wise to her love in disguise.
She had the body of a Venus, Lord, imagine my surprise.'
Dude looked like a lady."
Yeah, it's totally a riff on Lola.
"Imagine my surprise."
Nick's playing the video and also these guys--
They all look like ladies.
They have long hair and Steven Tyler, he plays with gender too. He's got his scarves.
He's wearing lip gloss.
Wait, he's wearing a kimono.
Yeah, I think this song, it's like-- I really think he kind of had it both ways.
Because for the crusty old rock fans who are like,
"Man, I'm not down with this hair metal stuff. These guys are wearing makeup.
They're kind of like, 'Yeah, total like it is, R. Smith. These dudes look like ladies.'"
But he's actually making more of a neutral statement.
Yeah, it's not John Mellencamp singing this song.
But also the video opens with these guys, who are all dressed like ladies, Aerosmith,
walking past a woman in little, you know, jean shorts and a construction hat doing jackhammering.
So the lady, I guess they're saying, looks like a dude.
Do you see what I-- It's just, it's very confused.
Right, you don't know if he's saying, "That dude looks like a lady
because that dude is a lady."
Or just like, "The guys in this world, yeah, we're gender fluid."
If they did a straight dramatization of the song, it would have been too on the nose.
They're like, "Let's flip it on them. Let's subvert our own--"
But also, later in the song, he says, "Let me take a peek, dear.
Do me, do me, do me all night. Turn the other cheek, dear.
Do me, do me, do me, do me. Ooh, what a funky lady."
So I think in some-- "What a funky lady."
That part, legendary.
I think weirdly, by making such a-- I mean, this is the power sometimes
of making just simple statements, is that there really is something for everybody.
For hardcore gender traditionalists, they get to be like,
"Thank you, Steven, for calling this out."
But really what he's saying is, he's just observing.
"Dude looks like a lady. So what are you going to do?"
And he's like, "I'm going to have sex with this person."
Check out this part of the video.
"I'm Steven Tyler. We're going to--"
Joey Kramer's like, "Hey, Steven, how many doomies are getting on that bridge?
How many doomies?"
"You think it's going to be eight doomies? It's only seven doomies before the fill."
"Got it."
"Okay."
We were just talking about Eminem, and I feel like there's some parallel here
because, you know, Eminem in his heyday would do the homophobic stuff,
but then he dressed like a woman in the music videos,
and then he did the Elton John thing, but then he gave the middle finger--
I feel like there's a lot of, like--
Where does he stand on this? Like, deliberate confusion.
He also sampled "Dream On."
Oh, right. Yeah. For a big song.
Yeah, I guess sometimes you get these cultural commentators who, above all,
they're not going to take sides necessarily in a culture war type issue,
but like many great observers and writers,
they just watch the divine comedy play out.
Does Eminem have strong feelings about how people should dress
or express their gender? Probably not.
He's probably just like watching it all.
Early Eminem is kind of just like, "I'm pissing everybody off."
Right. He's going to identify the hot-button issue
and then kind of step back a little bit and see people debate.
What was the Aerosmith album after?
Oh, now he is-- Later in the video, he fully does dress like a lady.
Yeah, "Dude Looks Like a Lady" is an interesting song.
I was just reading about-- Speaking of, you know,
sort of their unusual hard-to-read lyrics,
in "Living on the Edge" when he says, "I can't judge a man,"
"You're smarter than me."
"You can judge a man by the color of his skin."
Is that what he says? Yes.
Huh? Look at this line.
It's a very confusing sentiment.
He's either saying, you know--
I mean, I think I understand what he's getting at, which is like,
"Hey, I don't know how you could be so smart."
"You know what, let's know something I don't know, if you're racist,"
"'cause I can't do that," but it's a strange line.
Oh, here we go.
# If you can judge a wise man by the color of his skin... #
"If you can judge a wise man by the color of his skin..."
"Then, Mr. Man, you're a better man than I."
# I'm living on the edge, you can't have your say... #
That's confusing.
# Living on the edge... #
Joe's like, "Huh?"
Can I just point out--
I'm like nine years into playing that song.
Joe's finally like, "Wait, what?"
"Is there a lyric there?"
Steven Tyler's saying, "I don't judge people by the color of their skin."
People are like, "Right on, Steven."
And he's like, "But it's 'cause I'm an idiot. I don't have it in me."
"But I met some pretty smart guys out there, and they're very racist."
"You know, it's something I aspire to."
Like, what?
I just stepped out of the room to blow my nose,
and we've been talking about Steven Tyler's intent
over cross-dressing and all this.
And next door in the studio,
[bleep]
is doing a very serious interview about her new album or something.
- Oh, really? - And I come back in here, and it's like,
"Well, Steven Tyler's hair is a little..."
I don't know. Just the dissonance is a little...
Just yell, "Really?"
"Are you an Aerosmith fan?"
"Break us off with your top three Aerosmith songs real quick."
"Can you please explain this line to us?"
"Okay, um, number three, obviously, 'Dude Looks Like a Lady.'"
[laughter]
All '70s stuff.
"Number two's actually a deeper cutoff, 'Toys in the Attic.'"
But that's what's funny, is, like, there's no way that
Aerosmith really spans the generations.
I mean, look, for-- I mean, [bleep]
seems like somebody-- she probably does know a lot about music.
Maybe she does know deep cuts on 'Toys in the Attic,'
which, by the way, I don't.
- Back in the saddle. - But here's the thing.
Even if you're somebody who was born in the 21st century,
you're gonna know a few Aerosmith songs.
They really are America's band.
What was their last, like, hit?
Was it from this era, or was there an album after this that had--
'Cause this-- is this the album with the three big ballads?
- The "Amazing," "Crying"? - Yes.
Yeah, and maybe we should go a little deeper on "Get a Grip"
before we move on. Like, later, they had the song from "Armageddon."
- That's on a later record? That's, like, '97? - Yeah, that's '97.
So this is '93, so "Livin' on the Edge" was a single.
- Yeah. "Amazing," "Crying," and-- - "Crazy."
- "Crazy." - Yeah, I mean, I always loved "Crying."
♪ ♪
I think I was partial to "Amazing."
♪ ♪
There's three types of dudes in this world,
and they correspond exactly--
- Are you a crazy guy? - Are you a crazy--
- A crazy-- - An amazing guy or a crying guy?
- I'm a crying guy. - I think I'm an amazing guy.
But I don't even remember how it goes.
- ♪ It's a time ♪ - This is a beautiful song.
- Yeah, the Alicia Silverstone video. - ♪ I'm so brokenhearted ♪
- "Amazing"? Well, she was in a few of 'em. - Yeah.
- Crying. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- ♪ I'm so brokenhearted ♪ - This is--yeah.
- Come on, this is the one. This is the one.
- ♪ It's a time ♪ - We'll do "Amazing" after this, 'cause...
- ♪ I'm so brokenhearted ♪ - ♪ 'Cause half-hearted ♪
♪ That kind of love ♪
♪ Was the killing kind ♪
- ♪ So listen ♪ - ♪ All I want ♪
♪ Is someone I can't resist ♪
♪ I know all I need to know ♪
♪ But when I kissed ♪
♪ I was crying ♪
♪ I met you and I'm trying to forget you ♪
- I wonder what Bruce thought of this. - Right.
- Bruce is at his ebb. - Yeah, right.
- In '93. - And he saw these, like, guys...
- Oh, yeah, I mean, he knew-- I'm sure he had crossed paths with them.
- Yeah, he's the exact same age as them, basically. - Like, 20 years prior.
- ♪ Did you do it down on me? ♪
- I love this.
But you know what's funny, too? What this song really sounds like--
it took me a long time to understand this, because it's--
the playing is so much less nuanced,
but then I realized this is 100% just a Stones song.
This is like a Sticky Fingers-type song, you know what I mean?
- Totally, right, with those horns. - Yeah.
- ♪ It's down on me ♪ - Yeah.
- ♪ Yeah, got to take it ♪ - When I realized that, I was like,
"Oh, it's so obvious. This is, like, a great Stones song."
- Right. - But the production, the playing,
is so, like, plodding.
- ♪ Yeah, got to take it ♪ - Oh, yeah, no, if the Stones--
you're totally right, man.
If the Stones had recorded this in '71, it would be a classic.
And the Stones were maybe a little too old to have, like, a true '90s comeback.
♪ It's down on me ♪
I feel like the last great Stones song was '89, "Mixed Emotions."
Exactly. This is exactly what I was thinking of.
♪ ♪
Yeah, actually, the parallels between the Stones and Aerosmith are so obvious.
Obviously, like, Aerosmith lacks some of the Stones, just like--
Songwriting chops.
I mean, yeah, or they're both such good songwriters, but it's just--
it's so funny. He, like, he obviously is the mech.
- Joe Perry is the key. - Mm-hmm.
♪ I stand by your flame ♪
- They literally took this song and just pumped it up. - Mm-hmm.
- ♪ Burn ♪ - Those horns, yeah.
♪ It's a game ♪
♪ ♪
- ♪ Feeling like I'm ♪ - I mean, this kind of goes with my theory
about, like--I don't know how to put it,
'cause I don't want it to sound like being dismissive,
but you always get the slightly more idiosyncratic--
I don't want to say artistic, but, like, nuanced artist putting a vibe out,
and then somebody spies it, and they know how to take it to the hole.
- They beef it up a little bit. - They beef it up.
And actually, in this case, obviously, the Stones are huge,
bigger than Aerosmith, probably, but it's like--
you can see, like, the Stones were the original interpreters
of, like, blending blues and country and early rock and roll together,
and they put together this mood board,
and then that mood board is handed to Aerosmith,
who just, like, know what--
they're standing on the shoulders of giants.
Wait, what's the fourth song on this record,
the one after "Wild Horses"?
I can't think with the music going.
- Can you hear me knocking? - Yeah, yeah, wait.
Can you throw that in for--this kind of, like--
I can almost see this going into--
like, Aerosmith being like, "Okay."
- Yeah, yeah. - Yep.
But--
Yeah, Keith's playing is--
- And even just the sound of the drums. - It's just weird.
It's, like, small and--
[scatting]
[scatting]
Yeah, you got satin shoes
Yeah, you got nasty boots
Y'all got cocaine eyes
Yeah, you got sleepy John
Yeah, much more than Led Zeppelin.
The Stones are the blueprint for Aerosmith.
Yeah, you're totally--I've never--I've never--
Well, yeah, except for "Dream On."
Except for "Dream On," right.
They were, like--they're trying to do Zeppelin,
and they're like, "You know what?
- Let's take a page from the Stones." - Yeah, we're Stones, guys.
Yeah, we're Stones.
Wait, so put on "Amazing."
I kind of forgot how it goes.
Am I an amazing guy?
Hold on, let's wait for the song to kick in.
Yeah, don't forget about "Crazy."
"Amazing" is kind of the dark horse of the three.
I kept the right ones out
And let the wrong ones in
Whoa, kind of Floyd.
Yeah, an angel of mercy
To see me through all my sins
There were times in my life
Life
When I was going insane
Trying to walk through
Kind of Elton John, like, all these chords.
And when I lost my grip
Lost my grip
And I hit the floor
Actually, I don't even know if I know this song.
You'll recognize the chorus.
Okay.
I was so sick and tired
Kind of Beatles, too.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, "Magical Mystery," too, or that, like--
I was pushing and I was tired
It's amazing
With a blink of an eye
You finally see the light
Oh, it's amazing
I'm really not into the production,
but I do like this song.
I also like that it's like--
It is kind of a moving song that, like--
Yeah, it's amazing
Especially if it is about--
This part's tight.
Saying a prayer for the desperate hearts
You know what, though?
I'm not an amazing guy, because what I'm hearing is, like,
oh, they work with a songwriter.
There's way too many chords in this.
A lot of their hits were with Desmond Childs.
Right, right, okay.
I'm having a vacation
And how high can you fly?
But, I mean, good for Aerosmith.
Yeah, no, it's cool, but it doesn't--
This one doesn't feel like Steve and Joe.
Right.
And I'm just getting to
Just what tomorrow brings
And I just can't tell just what tomorrow brings?
I'd ditch one of the justs.
You have to learn to crawl
Hey, Steven, how many justs?
But I just couldn't live without you
There's another just.
When I'm about to stoke
Yeah, I'm not an amazing guy.
I'm rescinding my amazing guy call.
Okay, I just want to get one more chorus,
'cause I like this story of this down-as-luck guy.
He's scratching to stay alive.
Like, he's hitting rock bottom.
But, it's amazing
With a blink of an eye
You finally see
I think if, like, Harry Nilsson did this song,
we'd absolutely love it.
Oh, yeah.
It's amazing
When the moment arrives
That you know you'll be alright
Harry Nilsson recorded it, like, without you.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, with that big chorus.
Yeah.
It's amazing
Okay, the last one is crazy.
Maybe you're a crazy guy.
You know you drive me up the wall
The way you make good balls
The nasty tricks you pull
Oh, yeah, yeah, totally.
Oh, yeah, this is so Mick.
And it always seems
This is, like, far away eyes.
You can always rely on Jesus.
Yeah, he's doing the accent.
I've drifted 14 red lights
Yeah.
Say you're leaving
On a 7.30 train
And that you're heading out
To Hollywood
Yeah, you've been giving me
That line so many times
It kind of gets like
Feeling bad, it looks good
Yeah, that kind of loving
Turns a man to a slave
That kind of loving
Turns a man to his grave
I go crazy
Oh, yeah, okay.
Crazy
I'm a crazy guy.
Baby, I go crazy
You turn it on
And then you go
And yeah, you drive me crazy
I mean, one thing you can say,
whether it's from Steve and Joe
or Desmond Chuck,
there's real emotion
in these songs.
Oh, yeah.
They're moving.
Can I do
His vocals are amazing on this one.
I feel like a cowboy
Ooh, it's tasty.
Talkin' like it's tough
And trying to tell me
That it's time to go
But I know you ain't
waiting for the other
I've never noticed that
in this song before.
It sounds like it's just warmer.
The drums are, tone is,
it's mixed different
than the others.
Is this a remaster?
Is this a 2016 remaster?
Mandolin overdub?
Yeah, I'm trying to know that
Yeah, I'm never, never,
never, never gonna
feel the same
I get crazy, crazy
Yeah, I mean, obviously,
a big Rod Stewart influence, too.
I was just gonna say,
you know who would've killed this?
Right, Rod.
Yeah.
End of the show.
And then you're gone
And yeah, you drive me
I was like, meeting someone
over the weekend
for the first time,
and Hannah was like,
you should tell them
about Time Crisis.
And I was like, you know,
trying to explain the show.
I was like, not a podcast,
not a radio show.
And they're like,
do you have guests?
And I was like, yeah,
I mean, usually I have friends,
but sometimes like Rod Stewart.
Which made them even more confused.
We've had some very
illustrious guests.
Yeah, like Huey Lewis,
Rod Stewart,
and then mostly friends.
Dave Matthews.
Dave Matthews, yeah,
that came up, too.
Alanis Morissette.
Was she on?
Yeah, you don't remember that?
The whole episode.
That was like, seven years.
I honestly, you're right now,
it rings a bell.
The CMO of Frito-Lay,
Jennifer Sines.
Right.
Yeah, there's a lot of luminaries
that have come through the door.
Seinfeld co-creator Larry David.
Oh yeah, Larry David was on
for half a second.
Accidental.
Doesn't quite, it counts, but.
It was a few minutes.
Wow, Crazy is, that's a good one.
Crazy!
I also just like that the,
I don't know why,
this album is 14 tracks,
and it's one hour and two minutes.
That's like classic 90s CD.
It's like, it's neither like
a double album,
it's neither here nor there.
It's just too long.
Like these other,
like there's a song called
Eat the Rich.
Whoa.
Yeah, we're going deep cut.
This is also some like
Sympathy for the Devil.
Totally.
When you were occupying
Wall Street, Jake,
did you hear this a lot?
This song?
Do they play it a lot?
When you were in Zuccotti Park?
Oh yeah, yeah, I know.
They had the generator
powering the PA,
and this was,
(guitar playing)
Oh yeah.
Noon every day.
Funky.
What year was the first
Rage Against the Machine record?
Was that '93?
'92, I think.
Okay, so.
Maybe '91.
Aerosmith is like,
Yeah, they could have been
listening to some Rage.
I mean, and also,
He's really doing,
he's all over the place.
♪ Call things, kicks back on you ♪
♪ Then I hope this blows the train ♪
♪ 'Cause I'm sick of y'all ♪
♪ Complaining about how many bills ♪
♪ And I'm sick of all the ♪
♪ Y'all crazy about your ♪
♪ Rules and your pills ♪
♪ And I just can't see no humor ♪
♪ About your way of life ♪
♪ And I think I can't do more for you ♪
♪ It's just here for tonight ♪
♪ Eat the rich ♪
♪ There's only one thing ♪
♪ A man good for ♪
♪ Eat the rich ♪
Interesting.
♪ I'm coming back for more ♪
♪ Eat the rich ♪
♪ I gotta get this off my chest ♪
I wonder if this is
in the current set list.
♪ I'll take a one right now ♪
♪ Spit out the rest ♪
♪ Oh ♪
Not bad, but I like,
I think they could have,
Not bad.
They could have slimmed down
this album a bit,
but I do like that
three of the singles
just have these like,
simple one word titles.
Cryin', Crazy, Amazing.
It's like they're just
really getting down to these
archetypal moments in life.
How's Flesh?
Flesh, track six, Flesh,
let's check it out.
Tabla?
Please give me a sitar.
♪ And actually, for her hand ♪
♪ I'm blind ♪
♪ And I should touch ♪
What's happening?
Okay.
I'm tripping, guys.
Whoa.
Get a grip,
goes a lot deeper
than the singles.
(laughs)
Wow.
(crowd cheering)
Let it cook, let it cook, boys.
Kind of Pearl Jam.
Yeah.
Drums are still pretty 80s.
♪ The night rolls out ♪
♪ Desire moves ♪
You know, with that lead in,
you're sort of expecting
something different.
It kind of goes into--
♪ Salad bake ♪
♪ And when you come ♪
♪ It won't be fake ♪
♪ I guess by now ♪
♪ You got the score ♪
♪ A little taste ♪
♪ Of your wanted more ♪
♪ From San Antone ♪
♪ To Marrakesh ♪
♪ The night comes ♪
♪ Everybody got to hang fresh ♪
♪ Give me your soul ♪
You got me in Marrakesh and flesh?
That's nice.
You got me all soaking wet.
♪ Fresh ♪
♪ The only thing that's worth the sweat ♪
All right.
That one's kind of a mess.
Get a grip.
I mean, so--
♪ Fresh ♪
And it's funny,
so this was still a few years,
five years actually,
before their biggest hit of the 90s.
Which is from the Armageddon soundtrack.
So this was only on the--
It was only on the soundtrack,
not on a record?
Yeah, this is on the Armageddon soundtrack.
Or as a kid from my town called it back then,
Armageddon.
Hell yeah.
He like saw the poster somewhere,
was like, "What's up with this Armageddon movie?"
And this famously was--
This was their biggest hit of the 90s?
Oh yeah.
Maybe their biggest hit ever.
I don't want to miss a thing.
Oh.
This was their last big hit, by the way.
I mean, they had a single in 2001 called "Jaded."
Oh yeah, that was pretty good.
Hit number one on the rock chart,
but when you look at--
Stephen Todd is 50 years old here.
♪ I could spend my life ♪
♪ In this sweet surrender ♪
Oh wait.
So are they reteaming with Desmond Child here?
No, it's with another big songwriter.
I thought they worked with the woman from "Porn on Blondes."
This is Diane Warren?
Diane Warren?
Oh, friend of the show.
Flamin' Hot.
Right.
♪ I don't want to fall asleep ♪
Wait, how did "Jaded" go?
♪ And I don't want this pain ♪
Yeah, I'm not a fan of this one.
♪ Even when I dream again ♪
♪ The sweetest dream will never do ♪
♪ I still miss you ♪
I think I like "Jaded."
Yeah, let me see it.
Is the verse on "Jaded" kind of good?
What year is "Jaded"?
Oh yeah, this is sick.
'01.
'01?
By now, it's like the strokes are out.
Yeah, but this has like a matador sound.
♪ Hey, J-J-Jaded ♪
This is tight.
♪ You got your mama's style ♪
♪ But your yesterday's shy to me ♪
Oh yeah, I remember this well.
♪ So jaded ♪
♪ You think that's where it's at ♪
♪ But is that where it's supposed to be? ♪
This was also performed at the Super Bowl halftime show that year,
along with, the lineup was, sorry,
Aerosmith, Britney Spears, Nelly, Mary J. Blige, Ray Charles, and NSYNC.
Wow.
We were all part of that halftime show.
What a mess.
It's a hot mess.
♪ Oh, my baby ♪
Ray Charles.
Yeah, I like this kind of like poppy, mid-tempo number.
♪ Jaded ♪
What is this?
♪ I'm the one that jaded you ♪
♪ Ba-na-na-na-na-na ♪
Leah, what are the influences here?
I'm trying to like--
I mean, that riff is Zeppelin.
♪ Ba-na-na-na-na-na ♪
Yeah.
♪ Ain't it ♪
You're right.
♪ But it's ♪
With those tom, like the tom beat.
I mean, yeah.
♪ I'm the one that jaded you ♪
♪ And maybe take a ride to the other side ♪
♪ Where I can know ♪
Because the song is not very Zeppelin.
Yeah.
♪ Ba-na-na-na-na-na ♪
I could picture the vocals being so different.
I could picture this as a Tom Petty song.
Okay.
♪ Yeah, I'm thinking about you ♪
I feel like there's some alt rock in this.
Yeah.
In a way that their other stuff doesn't have.
♪ I'm the one that's so jaded ♪
♪ And baby, I'm afraid of you ♪
♪
I mean, with the strings.
Yeah, there's a lot of music in the night.
Is that what the Manic Street Preachers sound like?
Do you know that band?
I've heard of Finley.
Huge in the UK.
Okay.
Very beloved, important band in the UK.
I don't know.
Jadabro is almost like Alanis a little bit.
Like...
♪
This sounds cool.
I mean, this sounds adjacent to...
Wait, here's this.
♪
I love this.
♪
I think this would be like '97 or something.
'96.
♪ For a shallow piece of dignity ♪
Yeah, I've always wanted to get deeper on this band.
♪ I wish I had a bottle ♪
♪
♪ Right to fill with my dead face ♪
♪
♪ To wear the scars ♪
♪
♪ To show ♪
Yeah, I just thought of them because they had strings sometimes.
♪
It's got a good chorus.
But it's the guitar tone is different.
♪ We don't talk about love ♪
♪ We only wanna get drunk ♪
♪ And we are not allowed to spend ♪
♪ As we are told that this is the end ♪
♪ Our desire for life ♪
You know, it's like...
That's tight.
Tuneful, but they kick in the aggressive vibes here and there.
Alright, so Nirvana dropped at least one solid song
in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s.
Aerosmith did.
That's pretty impressive.
You said Nirvana.
Oh, did I?
Interesting.
I'm just looking at all these different band names over here.
Yeah, Aerosmith.
Aerosmith, four decades.
Yeah.
Jaded was recorded at Joe Perry's house
where he has a studio that he calls the Boneyard.
Okay.
Okay, so it has some of that bedroom DIY energy.
♪ So jaded ♪
I remember back in the day,
I believe it was Beach House.
Being on tour with them,
you never know what Beach House is going to be talking about.
When did we tour with Beach House?
Like 2010, a long time ago.
Contra era?
Contra era.
I remember--
What album is Janie's got a gun on?
I remember they were like--
It's on Get a Grip.
It's on the one from '89.
No, no, Get a Grip was what we were just listening to.
Oh, sorry.
What's the one from '89?
Oh, Pump.
Oh, Pump, yes, that's it,
which we kind of skipped over in our Aerosmith assessment.
I remember being very surprised,
just shooting the shit with them.
And they were just like,
"You got to go watch this documentary
about the making of Pump on YouTube."
I remember it wasn't slick at all.
It almost felt like raw footage.
Maybe somebody made a slick version?
Yeah, I mean, no, like--
Have you seen this?
Yeah, and the video for that big ballad at the end
is just VHS footage of Stephen singing.
It's a great video.
What's the last song on Pump?
What is it?
"What It Takes"?
Yeah.
♪ Tell me what it takes to let you go ♪
Great song.
And also, there's love in an elevator.
Sure.
And then, Janie's got a gun.
But yeah, there's all this footage of them.
I hate this song.
Really?
Yeah.
That's like nails on a chalkboard, that intro.
I remember in this footage,
I guess this is their real comeback.
Yeah, this was huge.
I was 12.
I was the perfect age for this.
But they were in there experimenting with keyboards,
and you really got the sense that, like,
Steve and Joe were putting their heads together,
just being like, "How do we become relevant again?"
Yeah, they're 41.
Experimenting with synths just like all day, all night,
just like starting a piece.
I mean, it had the "Get Back" vibes.
Yeah, yeah.
The boys are against the wall.
Can they deliver the goods?
Janie's got a gun.
[Gunshot]
Is this like one of the only times--
I guess Dude looks like a lady--
where they've had any sort of topical--
Social-- well, and living on the edge.
Something's wrong with the world today.
That's true.
That's how we got into all this.
What did her daddy do?
Wouldn't he have watched him grow?
You hate this one?
Yeah, I hate this song.
Always hated it.
Janie was arrested.
She's a police betrayer.
It's just very depressing music.
But I love "Tell Me What It Takes."
That's maybe my favorite Aerosmith song.
"Tell Me What It Takes" is a banger.
Yeah, let's listen to it.
Yeah, I mean, this era--
Run away!
Janie's got a gun.
Oh, yeah!
[playing in bright rhythm]
I think I was probably about Steve Perry's age
when they were working on this album.
Right now?
Yeah.
You're at 40?
Yeah, maybe we gotta drop a pump.
Joe Perry, not Steve Perry.
Sorry.
Yeah, right.
Joe Perry equals Steve Perry, yep.
Isn't it easy to sleep in the bed that we made
When you don't look back
I guess the feelings start to fade away
Oh, I used to feel your fire
But now it's cold inside
And you're back on the street
Like you didn't miss a beat
Tell me what it takes to let you go
Is that accordion coming in?
Like a synth accordion?
Oh, oh, oh
Tell me how it is that you can't see
Do you know this song?
Tell me now
Not really.
And you lost everything that was good in your life
To the toss of the dice
Tell me what it takes to let you go
Girl, before I met you
I was F-I-N-E-F-I-N-E
But your love made me crazy
Off the hill neck.
I was F-I-N-E-F-I-N-E
You sped me up like money
Then you hung me out to dry
It was easy to keep
All your lies in disguise
'Cause you had me in deep
With the devil in your eyes
Tell me what it takes to let you go
Tell me how it is
Is that Rod Stewart part?
Yeah.
Tell me how it is that you can't sleep
Imagine Rod Stewart and Steven Tyler hanging out.
In like Vegas.
I'm sure they've hung out.
To the toss of the dice
Tell me what it takes to let you go
Guitar!
Oh yeah, this is tasty.
Oh, you got the Leslie on?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's like Aerosmith can't help it.
They throw those kind of tasteful nods
To the 60s and 70s, even in the late 80s.
See, even when I was 12, I was a 60s and 70s guy.
Yeah.
This is my favorite song on the record.
Tell me that you're happy that you're on your own
Nice.
What year is that?
Rod and--
Steven Tyler posted to Facebook in 2015
A photo of him with Rod's arm around him
And it just says, "Every picture tells a story, don't it?"
Yeah.
Although, you can't really tell the story.
It just seems like two guys--
Just two guys who know each other.
All right, well that was a little impromptu
Aerosmith career retrospective.
A little 45-minute deep dive on Aerosmith.
Yeah, I hope everybody feels like they know
A lot more about Aerosmith.
I mean, it's funny, Aerosmith, so many great songs
No sense of place.
Global rock band.
Global rock band, like, probably not gonna be remembered
Long into the future, I would guess.
Interesting.
I mean, who cares?
I'm not saying that as a diss, but it's like
They did a lot of great work, but, you know
People are just gonna go back to Zeppelin and the Stones.
Let me ask you guys, when Cow Utter piercing album came out
Did you already have the context at the time
That this was like a bit of a comeback for them?
Well, I'm not sure if we actually talked about that on the show
Just so you understand, this album that we started with
"Get a Grip" from 1993, which has the great singles
"Livin' on the Edge," "Cryin'," "Amazing," and "Crazy"
The album cover is a close-up of a cow
It's branded with the Aerosmith logo
And then on its utter is a piercing
So hanging on one of the udders
Is the utter the whole thing?
What do you call the little kind of nipples?
The nipple.
You call the nipple a cow nipple?
Seinfeld, Google "cow nipple" and see what you get back.
That doesn't sound right.
Oh, okay, the nipple, also known as a teat?
The teat, yeah.
So one of the teats hanging off of a very full udder
Is pierced.
I'm sure they didn't actually pierce it.
Actually, what do I know?
It's also interesting, and then the album is called "Get a Grip"
Are they telling the cow, like, "Come on, cow, get a grip?"
Or are they telling us to grip the udder and milk the cow?
Yeah, the pierced udder.
PETA was pissed.
Yeah.
So the band later stated that the piercing was photoshopped in.
Did they use the term "Photoshop"?
Digitally altered.
Really? '93? Okay.
I mean, sure, I just figure it would have been...
I'm on the Wikipedia, and friend of the show, music critic Steve Hyden
Has referred to the album's cover as "the worst album cover of all time."
[laughter]
Maybe you want to ask him about that.
I don't know if it's that bad.
I mean, I actually kind of remember being in a record store or something
Or a place that sold music t-shirts, and kind of browsing them with my mom
When I was 10 or 11, probably at the mall, and seeing that.
I can't remember if I would have asked to get this shirt or not
But either way, somehow we came to that, and I was like, "That's disgusting.
I would never let you wear that."
A special edition of the album was released in a fabric-covered case
Made to resemble cowhide.
Wow. I'm getting all you guys' Aerosmith "Get a Grip" t-shirts for Christmas.
Well, the pump cover was also, it was like a car that looked like it was humping another car.
Yeah, it's two kind of like, very old-fashioned pickup trucks.
Oh, wow.
So I think that they were having fun. They were being whimsical.
One thing I'll say about Aerosmith is they really have great album titles.
"Get Your Wings," "Toys in the Attic."
You know, one of their classic '70s albums is just called "Rocks."
Yeah, that's a good one.
"Night in the Ruts."
I don't know that record. Is that like '81?
Which is obviously a play on "Right in the Nuts."
Oh, yeah.
This is a pretty incredible run.
Permanent vacation, pump, and get a grip.
Yeah.
Strong.
Huge singles off all of those.
And then they kind of lost the plot in 2004 with "Honkin' on Bobo."
That's a-- really?
Yeah.
"Honkin' on Bobo."
I think it has something to do--
Wait, what? Is that something else?
Well, the album cover shows a harmonica with the Aerosmith logo on it and lipstick.
So I guess "Honkin' on Bobo" maybe refers to playing the harmonica.
But is that like a phrase that's from somewhere else?
Seinfeld, you know what to do.
I see "Honkin' on Bobo" like in the ether occasionally,
but maybe it's referencing the 2004 Aerosmith.
Do we have an O? Like "Wheel of Fortune."
Do we have an O? We got three Os.
"Honkin' on Bobo."
You got it, sir.
If you Google "Honkin' on Bobo," is it only reference Aerosmith?
Well, Urban Dictionary is telling me that--
Here we go.
I almost don't want to say it. It's a euphemism for [bleep] according to--
Okay.
But I don't know if that's just someone--
Anyone can edit these things.
Wait, Aerosmith would have a song about that? Are you kidding me?
Absolutely.
I'm joking, dude.
I'm saying absolutely.
"Honkin' on Bobo."
Guys, push in 60. Let's name their album "Honkin' on Bobo."
Oh.
They were 56. Stephen was 56 when "Honkin' on Bobo" dropped.
Apparently, this is Aerosmith slang for acting like we're in our early 30s.
That's how they meant it.
So, coked up and drunk.
♪ Something wrong with today ♪
♪ I don't know what it is ♪
I'm sure you know that. I've been thinking that that line has a little bit of like--
There's like a Vampire Weekend lyric that that line kind of reminds me of.
No, totally. I know exactly what it is.
You know the one I'm talking about.
And in the same way, that's why I'm not dissing it, because I know probably when this song came out,
people were like, "Oh, it's so basic."
But I bet you're thinking of the opening line of "Married in a Gold Rush."
I sure am.
Which is, "Something's happening in the country, and the government's to blame."
Which I knew at the time, like obviously on that album--
That's much more specific.
It's more specific than, "Something wrong in the world today, and I don't know what it is."
I don't-- But even that, I'm not mad at that.
I'm not mad at that. It works.
I'm not disrespecting.
It's interesting. You always run a risk when you get like super simple.
You can shroud stuff in mystery.
But yeah, I kind of like the idea of just like--
Well, especially because "Married in a Gold Rush" is a country song,
that I like the idea of, "Something's happening in the country, and the government's to blame."
And then also that song gets more and more specific.
But I'm drawn to it, and I'm drawn to--
"Something's wrong with the world today, I don't know what it is."
Maybe you guys start teasing "Living on the Edge."
"We're living on--" I mean, yeah, how could I sing it?
You've also pointed out a reason for the problem, whereas Aerosmith's like, "All right, I don't know."
But that's honest, man.
That's true.
Steven Tyler just keeping it 100.
Something's happening in the country, and the government's to blame.
We got married in a gold rush, and the rush has never felt the same.
Shared a moment in a cafe, shared a kiss in pouring rain.
We got married in a gold rush, and the sight of gold will always bring me pain.
I don't want to hear the rumors, please don't say it loud.
I just want to go out tonight and make my baby proud.
Where's your baby?
You don't know by now.
There's two seats on the midnight train, the gold won't wear us down.
All right, should we shift off Aerosmith?
Well--
Well, let's do the full two hours.
Well--
I could talk "Living on the Edge" lyrics a little longer.
We're living on the edge.
He does that thing where his voice goes up like that.
Does anyone else have that vocal--
Axl.
Axl does that?
OK.
I guess probably Steven Tyler was an influence for Axl.
Oh, for sure.
Steven Tyler's the bridge between--
Plant.
Plant and Rose.
All right, well, on this episode, I don't think we promised anybody a tight 55 minutes on Aerosmith,
but that's classic TC, we didn't know that coming in.
Nope.
This is an organic show, guys.
This is a very organic show.
We said we were going to talk about 2000's indie.
Yep.
Actually, before we get to that, there's something I keep forgetting that I wanted to talk about.
Just to mix in a little bit of corporate food history.
OK.
Because I don't want to leave the corporate food heads hanging with all this music talk.
It's time for--
Corporate Food History.
Let's talk about it.
I want to talk a little bit about this place Raising Cane's.
What do we know about Raising Cane's?
I gave nobody any prep.
Jake, Raising Cane's, what do you know?
Chicken?
Yes.
I believe it's chicken.
Southern?
I believe it's southern.
What about Nick?
You're the southernest guy on the show.
Also, I got a 12-year-old who's all about Raising Cane's.
I mean, I feel it's almost--
Are there SoCal locations?
Yeah, they just opened one.
Post Malone opened a big one and that became--
Post Malone did?
Yeah.
Wait, he franchised one?
Yeah.
OK, this is tight.
OK, I'm glad I brought this up.
Is he the first celebrity to--
Oh, no, well, Rick Ross famously owns like 40 Wingstops.
Yeah, he's the president of Wingstop.
Oh, really?
Oh, dude, and also, I saw on something that Nick sent
that Buffalo Wild Wings is going under.
Not going under, they're closing a lot of locations.
OK.
I think they're closing a lot of the Californian locations.
There's a lot of BWWs out there.
Yeah.
BWW.
OK, but Raising Cane's came on my radar
because I remember they opened one
just right in downtown Manhattan.
I think it's at like Astor Place, Astor and Lafayette.
And I kind of remember walking with a friend
who's more like an old school New Yorker type,
like when there's like a big sign like, "Coming soon, Raising Cane's."
And he was just like, "I heard that place is really good."
And I was like, "OK."
And I never tried it.
And then I've noticed more popping up in California.
OK, so let's get some backstory on Raising Cane's.
I mean, I don't know the backstory.
I mean, I just am-- I'm aware of its--
But do the 12-year-olds like it?
The 12-year-olds-- I mean, everyone really likes it.
Is it a TikTok thing?
Well--
Is it a TikTok--
I mean, I didn't know it was such a big thing until--
Well, there's a big--
Because I heard there's this big thing with 12-year-olds now
where they play the-- it's a TikTok trend
where you play the beginning of "Living on the Edge" by Aerosmith.
While even Raising Cane's.
And then you just show yourself like--
do a little edit of like your trip to Raising Cane's.
Well, Seinfeld pulls up, you know, the numbers on Raising Cane's.
Post Malone and Raising Cane's chief executive officer, Todd Graves,
are friends, and they design--
you know, they approach Post, who loves Raising Cane's
and its signature cane sauce,
and they struck a deal that Post Malone designed
and opened his own franchise in Midvale.
Where's Midvale?
I assume Texas, right?
I mean, that's where he's from.
That's right.
Dallas, Metrorai, I think.
Wait, so it's chicken fingers?
Yeah, it's--
So does that mean like breaded--
Chicken strips.
Okay, so it's boneless, breaded chicken.
And what's so good about it?
I haven't had it yet, but it is--
I think that it tastes fresh.
I mean, I think that it's their--
and it's their signature cane sauce that the kids go crazy for.
'Cause chicken fingers are like the least fresh form of--
you know, it's like a--
I mean, I like chicken fingers, fine.
I also think--
It's great like airport food of like frozen chicken fingers
you throw in the oven.
It also seems to be riding the hot chicken wave.
I just think that it's part of--
'Cause they have a hot chicken sandwich?
Oh, Chick-fil-A.
I mean, I feel it was a sort of alternative to Chick-fil-A.
But I do think that they have a hot chicken--
do they have a hot chicken?
Let's see.
Not according to Wikipedia.
Okay, 'cause actually part of the reason I got interested in this--
I made a note somewhere like months ago,
and I kept forgetting to bring it up on the show--
you guys know that obviously raising canes, it's spelled C-A-N-E.
Maybe you can find some info about that,
but they're obviously referencing the phrase "raising cane,"
which you hear in a lot of songs.
Are you guys familiar what raising cane means?
No.
To raise cane in American English means to create a great commotion
to cause much trouble.
The reason is that the cane they're talking about is Cain and Abel.
Okay, yeah, I figured it was related to that.
So yeah, it comes from the Bible.
So when you're raising cane, it means that you're causing a disturbance
in the manner of Cain from the Bible.
And for anybody who needs a reminder,
Cain and Abel are the first two sons of Adam and Eve.
Heard of them?
I've heard of them.
Not all the way back.
Not all the way back?
Just second generation of human beings.
So there's Cain and Abel, and the brothers made sacrifices,
each from his own fields to God.
God regarded Abel's offering, but not Cain's.
So basically, as I understand it, the story of Cain and Abel
is one of the first stories not only of jealousy in the Bible,
but in the Bible's kind of archetypal parable telling of the history of humanity.
Adam and Eve is the beginning of self-consciousness.
Cain and Abel is the first straight up bit of jealousy.
Does one of them kill the other one?
Yes, Cain killed Abel, and God cursed Cain,
sentencing him to a life of transience.
Cain killed Abel because Cain was jealous of Abel?
He was jealous of Abel, yeah.
Because Abel took his birthright.
Abel took his birthright.
So that's something that one of them was hairy, and Abel, whatever,
they tricked the dad, and whatever.
Basically--
This was my half Torah portion.
Oh really? For your bar mitzvah?
For your southern bar mitzvah?
Yes.
So not only is the story of Cain and Abel the first story of jealousy,
more importantly, it's the first story of murder.
Right.
So from a Judeo-Christian, or Islamic, from an Abrahamic perspective,
Cain is the world's first murderer.
So when you're raising Cain, the phrase "raising Cain,"
you're causing a disturbance, causing commotion,
you are creating a bad situation, you're being bad,
in the manner of history's first murderer.
It's high stakes.
It's high stakes.
So I was thinking about this.
There's a new popular--or not new, but there's this growing
southern chicken restaurant--
Chicken Finger Restaurant.
Chicken Finger Restaurant called Raising Cain's.
So this place is celebrating murder.
And PETA is like, at least you're honest.
Yeah, at least you're keeping it real.
But it's interesting too because Chick-fil-A, famously,
a lot of people have problems with Chick-fil-A because they're so Christian.
Right.
I don't know where that landed.
I think some people say they cleaned up their act with regards to--
They were against gay marriage. Is that what the thing was?
Yeah.
And now they're probably agnostic on it.
Certainly quiet about it.
They're closed on Sundays.
But anyway, that was interesting to me because we see the way that
myths kind of repeat themselves through history.
And so here we have two of the hottest chicken chains in America.
Both come roughly from the same place, I believe, the South.
One celebrates murder and one--
It's literally Cain and Abel all over again.
There's nothing biblical about it.
So Baton Rouge is where Cain starts.
Raising Cain.
Raising Cain.
Todd, who is the founder, originally--
Todd?
They just call him Todd.
Originally planned to call--
A devout Satanist.
Call the chicken place Sockeyes after the salmon he fished in Alaska.
Terrible name.
Terrible.
Although I can kind of see it.
I don't see it being successful, but I can--
It's confusing.
Sockeyes chicken.
I just-- something about that sounds Louisiana.
I can see it.
Yeah, if you hadn't said the part about Sockeyes salmon, maybe.
Luckily, a friend suggested he name it after his yellow Labrador retriever.
Cain?
Yeah, that must be.
I'm reading now the dog, the Lab's name was Raising Cain.
You mean Cain.
Of course.
I thought it was just-- yes, then it is, but I thought it was just Cain.
Oh, but it was Cain.
And then they were talking about Raising the Lab, so Raising Cain.
Park the car at the side of the road.
You should know, time's tired, well, some of you.
I will, too.
When you walk without people, you feel so very lonely,
their only desire is to die, but I'm afraid it doesn't make me smile.
I wish I could laugh, but that joke isn't funny anymore.
It's too close to home, and it's too near the bone,
it's too close to home, and it's too near the bone for you and her.
But no, the Lab is called-- his name is Raising Cain.
There have been three of them, so there's Cain 1, Cain 2, and Cain 3,
and that's their mascot.
But the full name of each of those was Raising Cain?
It says. They're calling-- later in this document, they say Cain 1, Cain 2.
God works in mysterious ways.
Wherever the name came from--
It's like a racehorse.
It ended up being-- it is kind of a racehorse name, like a phrase.
Raising Cain, the name of this place,
shares some of its DNA with history's first murderer.
Whether it's deliberate or not--
But it must be deliberate.
They're calling the name of the dog--
Raising Cain is an ancient phrase, which Ezra discovered,
so whether these morons deliberately are referencing the Bible or not,
or if it's just something they heard before--
Raising Cain!
No, no, again--
It is what it is.
I understand.
It references the Bible.
I understand.
But it has to reference the Bible, because it wasn't like,
"Oh, I had this dog named Cain," and then I was like,
"You know what? I know that expression, Raising Cain."
The entire-- the name is Raising Cain.
So it must be-- I'm positive there's some--
Yeah, probably because I think down south,
when you say somebody was Raising Cain--
It is Raising Hell.
I mean, that's the expression.
Yeah, it's just like kind of-- yeah.
You don't have to be a murderer.
You could be like, "Oh, boy, after the championship of the football team,
they raised a little Cain downtown," you know, just partying.
Yeah, that must be-- I mean, I do-- I know I've heard that.
But I'm just saying--
I've heard that expression in my time in the south.
Raised a little Cain.
We've all raised a little Cain.
We've all raised a little Cain.
I just think it's interesting that these--
you know, like Bob Dylan said in the late '70s,
you've got to serve somebody.
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord,
but you're going to have to serve somebody.
And isn't it interesting that when you choose to go to a chicken chain
that originated down south, that choice presents itself yet again.
You can go celebrate history's first murderer,
or you can go to a place that's closed on Sundays.
I love the thing about Bob on the tour bus passing by a Raising Cain
and being like, "Oh, a biblical chicken place."
Turn the bus around.
We're going to pull in a Raising Cain.
Raising Cains.
I love that voice.
Yeah, probably like Bob Dylan passing--
he's probably doing a show in Baton Rouge on the NeverEnding Tour in 1998.
Wait, what year did Raising Cains open?
I think '96.
'96. Yeah, '96.
You may be an ambassador to England or France.
You may like to gimbal.
You might like to dance.
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world.
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls,
but you're going to have to serve somebody.
Yes, indeed, you're going to have to serve somebody.
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord,
but you're going to have to serve somebody.
I like Chicken Fingers is such a low bar.
You know what we have to do now that Post Malone is joining up
with the forces of Satan to open Raising Cains?
You know what we have to do?
We have to find an even bigger pop star with some money to spread around.
I'm thinking The Weeknd.
I was going to say Abel's.
Abel's.
Oh.
Abel's Chicken.
Yeah.
I love that.
Opening across the street from Cain's.
Maybe we just call it Abel's Birthright.
[laughter]
Closed on Sundays.
Oh, yeah, you got to.
Our s*** is so crazy, we're closed Saturday and Sunday and Monday.
[laughter]
Open Wednesdays.
[laughter]
Abel's Birthright.
We're only open Wednesdays.
Birthright.
It's the exact same menu as Raising Cains.
Are you planning on going back to Dallas, Jake, for your book?
I don't know.
No plans to.
Because Post Malone has teamed up with the Dallas Cowboys
to open up a Raising Cains in Dallas that has Cowboys memorabilia inside
but the entire exterior is wrapped in a silver vinyl.
What?
I assume sort of a mirrored--
Oh, like the football uniforms.
Yes, but it's city-made mirrors.
They're going to open a--
Oh, nice.
Like a reflective--I got to find it.
I'm just saying if you go back.
Yeah, yeah.
You guys know this song?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, this opening.
[imitates opening]
It's Bruce Springsteen, Darkness on the Edge of Town.
The song is called Adam Raised a Cain.
But notice, it's kind of dark, foreboding, moody.
We'll listen to this a little bit.
When we come out of this song, some 2000s indie.
[laughter]
Adam raised a cain, Adam raised a cain, Adam raised a cain, Adam raised a cain.
All of their old faces, asked you why you're back.
Fetch you with possessions, the keys to your daddy's Cadillac.
And I talk to you, your mother calls you by your true name.
You remember the faces, the places, the names.
You know it's your story, so let's have a laugh.
Adam raised a cain, Adam raised a cain, Adam raised a cain, Adam raised a cain.
I've said before that I was glad that I was in college between '02 and '06.
Because that's a pretty random time.
I think it's good to be in college during a random time.
Why is that?
Because then you're just doing college stuff.
You're just focused on being in college.
Got your head in the books.
Okay.
I guess I'm also picturing somebody like any of us,
the people who are trying to work in the arts or something,
where the vibes of the time might actually have some material impact
on your ability to be inspired or work.
You play the hand you're dealt.
I guess also hindsight's 20/20.
And as Joe Walsh beautifully states in the Eagles documentary,
"Life as it happens" is a series of seemingly random chaotic events
hurtling at you helter-skelter with no rhyme or reason.
Then as you look back, life has the feeling of a finely crafted novel.
A finely crafted novel.
A finely crafted novel.
When looking back, life has--
She's like a PopCat and Coldplay.
When did I have this feeling?
There are times when I reflected and I was kind of like,
"Well, I remember I was a kid in the '90s."
Don't really remember the '80s, but I was a kid in the '90s.
And then the early 2000s, like when George--
First George W. Bush term.
It all seemed so random.
And then by the time I got out of college in '06,
it was kind of like this perfect time to be interested in what I was interested in,
what I guess we were all interested in, which is like indie culture.
It really was a golden age.
And I don't mean that--I'm not trying to say that the first seven years of Vampire Weekend
were a golden age because all the music was better then or something.
I'm really not saying that.
But we did have the good fortune that '06 to 2013,
the first seven years--to get biblical, seven-year periods are very important--
the first seven years of Vampire Weekend,
the beginning of my career and the band's career,
did correspond with a golden age for independent music's success in the mainstream.
If you look back, it was before streaming and the major labels
didn't exactly know what they were doing,
so independent record labels had a lot of insight into how to get their music to people
using tools that they'd honed over the previous 30 years.
And suddenly there was a receptive audience with the internet.
It was just like a sweet spot for the success of what you could call indie music and culture.
A generation was coming of age, the internet, the moment between technologies.
That was just like a good moment to be coming out as an indie band.
But yeah, looking back at the early 2000s, there was still a lot of great music.
I think something was kind of still developing.
Basically for me, I graduated high school kind of like '01, '02.
For me, I'm thinking a lot about this '01, '02, '03 period.
At that point, Jake, where were you living?
Portland. I graduated college in '99.
So I was living--we covered this in the last ep. We taped it a while ago.
But I was living in Portland, 2000, 2001, 2002, delivering pizza for Papa John's,
playing in bands, making paintings.
I'm curious, in that moment, what did you think living in this kind of--
Frontier town.
Frontier town, still a little crunchy, very indie.
Remember when that show Portlandia first launched?
The first sketch they did was Fred Armisen telling Carrie Brownstein or vice versa,
"You've got to come to this place, Portland. It's still the '90s."
And that song is "The Dream of the '90s" is alive in Portland.
So certainly in '01, "The Dream of the '90s," of course, was still alive.
So when you're hanging out, a little bit crunchy, listening,
probably still jamming a lot of your '90s faves.
Plus even the newer music that you were listening to, like Little Wings or whatever,
still had a kind of DIY crunch to it.
When you started seeing these kind of like urbane, media darling New York bands,
like The Strokes or Interpol, Yeah Yeah's come out,
delivering Papa John's pizza, what do you think?
Not into those bands. I mean, I like The Strokes.
I didn't buy their album on a compact disc,
but I really did not like the Yeah Yeah Yeahs or hated those bands.
I just didn't like the arch, they're dressed up, they're wearing makeup.
They say nothing to me about my life.
Exactly, dude.
Ripping around Portland delivering Papa John's.
It says nothing to me about my life.
No, I mean, I tapped out. I think we talked about this,
so I don't want to repeat myself too much, but I fully tapped out in 2000.
It wasn't a conscious decision, but I was living with my buddy Steve Schrader in 2000.
Yeah.
Grateful Dead Summer, dude.
Right.
We were like, let's get back into the dead. We loved the dead in high school.
Yeah.
Got back into the dead. Still listen to my '90s classics,
listening to local music, Little Wings microphones, my friends' music.
Right.
Playing in Wolf Kernel. I really draw a blank with that period.
And you were just saying starting in '06, there was a vibe shift.
I was thinking about this. I know a lot more music from '06 to '13
than I do from 2000 to 2005.
I really draw a blank. I have nothing.
There's like Bob Pollard releases, Kyle Field releases,
Dirty Projectors releases. That's all I got.
I don't know any--
Because everybody comes to these crossroads.
Yeah.
I think about this stuff all the time too when I think about who's Vampire Weekend's audience now.
I hope somewhere there's a dude in his mid-20s delivering pizza
who's tapped out on new music, but who's like, "I checked out Agua."
You know?
Totally.
I hope there's a dude somewhere delivering pizza who's like, "2024, I was jamming Agua."
And it's like, "But what about all these great new bands just tapped out, bro?"
Yeah, not in, dude.
That's how it has to work.
Fleetwood Mac, The Dead, and Vampire, bro.
So from 2000 to 2005, you were living in the '70s.
Yeah, and that's when I really started to explore the Springsteen catalog,
the Neil Young catalog. Those are huge catalogs.
I didn't know that stuff in high school.
Yeah, you really have to-- I know there's some people--
you sometimes see these people online.
I've never seen one in the flesh who are just like,
"I listen to three albums a day."
Yeah.
Usually one classic and two new ones just to be part of the conversation.
I listen to hundreds of albums a year.
Amazing. Hats off to you.
Yeah, hats off to you. I've just never understood it,
because for me, I never could have gotten as deep into The Dead.
I had to tune out a little bit in the post-Richard Pictures era
where I got interested in The Dead.
I needed to actually not care about new music a little bit.
To spend the time-- yeah, and for me, vinyl was cheap.
I could go to Everyday Music on Sandy Boulevard.
Let's say I just heard-- I remember I just heard
"In Your Eyes" with Peter Gabriel.
I was like, "I'm going to go find that record. I love that song."
Two bucks.
What are all these Neil Young records? I'm just going to buy them all.
They're all like three bucks, four bucks.
Like we were saying, I believe on the last episode,
I know there's so many contemporary artists
that I'm going to have a moment where I go through the whole thing.
Like Belle and Sebastian. I got into that last five years.
So if Belle and Sebastian was coming through town, would you go see them?
- Now? - Yeah.
I would. They just did, and I didn't go, but I don't know.
- I would. - Right.
- I'm not going to go out of my way. - Yeah.
What's your favorite Belle and Sebastian album?
The green one.
- If You're Feeling Sinister? - No, The Boy with the Arab Strap.
- Oh, right. If You're Feeling Sinister is red. - Yep.
Very strong visual identity in those early albums.
When I go back to the early 2000s,
the one band, the first band that I feel like I really was there for at the start,
and this is not because of me, this is because of my friend Andre,
was The Walkman.
Like The Strokes, I can picture this year so well.
I mean, obviously, senior year of high school, it's kind of like a big year.
And my senior year of high school is very memorable,
as I'm sure I've said on the show before.
The first month of senior year was 9/11.
Crazy.
I remember--of course, I can picture that so vividly,
like sitting in class and all that stuff.
And I also can kind of remember the same TV
that I watched World Trade Center 7 fall on,
which was at my friend Wes's house.
He had a TV in this upstairs kind of TV room at his house,
because I remember we got out of school,
we drove up the hill to Montclair,
looked out at the city and saw this plume of smoke,
and it's far out.
Then went back to his house watching that same TV,
saw World Trade Center 7 collapse.
I remember that TV very well, because it's the same TV
I used to watch a lot of MTV2 at.
So I'm very familiar with MTV2 from this period,
which was kind of a golden age.
And these are the bands who are not exactly like indie-indie,
but these bands that were like cool music
that had a foot in both worlds, like The Strokes, Daft Punk.
I remember we'd get really excited when we'd see
the One More Time video or something,
Basement Jacks, the kind of cool mainstream,
but cool music of that era.
So I liked all that stuff, but then the first time
I really heard of a band that maybe wasn't even signed
when we first heard of them was The Walkmen.
Because my friend Andre was going to a lot of shows in the city,
was like, "You've got to check out this band."
And I'm pretty sure I own the first releases The Walkmen ever had,
because we went to such an early show,
they had these silk-screened EPs.
They were like handmade.
- Nice. - So these two, like...
I've like... God knows where it is, I should find it.
I have a very strong early Walkmen vinyl collection.
Get in touch with me if you want to trade or purchase.
My prices are high, but fair.
- And firm. - And firm.
- I will not come down.
- But I remember that was a really interesting time,
because The Walkmen definitely seemed older,
and The Strokes seemed a little bit older,
but it was the first time that I had that feeling
of almost being contemporaries with the new bands,
where I could almost be like, "Oh, right, so...
"Wow, if you're really serious about music,
"yeah, you get a band together, you put out your first album."
You know, when you're 14, it seems so distant.
When you're 17, you're like, "Oh, that could be...
"Maybe that's something I would do next year."
Turned out to be five years away, but whatever, you're four years away.
But anyway, The Walkmen were the first band
that I felt like a true indie band
that my friends and I were interested in, and we'd go see them.
I remember seeing them open for a band called Firewater
at Bowery Ballroom.
So they were like the opener.
Most of the audience wasn't even there to see them.
- You were in on the ground floor.
- Yeah, and I remember hearing this song live.
This is the title track from their first album,
"Everyone Who Pretended To Like Me Is Gone."
[electronic beeping]
They're kind of the first band I ever saw
where I really felt like I was taking the songs in on first listen.
You know that's so difficult?
It's one thing to go see a band you're familiar with the catalog,
and you're like, "Hell yeah."
Or to see a band play and be like, "That's interesting."
But to really feel like you can hear the song for the first time live
and be like, "Whoa, what was that song?"
I was really moved by that.
There's something about this where I was like,
"Oh, these guys are almost like The Strokes,
"but there's a touch of U2 grandiosity,
"but they're wearing black sweaters."
I was very impressed by the whole operation.
[electronic music]
The drummer's bananas.
Very exciting to watch.
Do you remember when the Walkman first came out?
- No. - Not on your radar?
No, it was across my desk.
[electronic music]
Yeah, when I saw it live, this just blew my mind.
The recording's good, but there's something about it live that's really crazy.
[electronic music]
That's such an early 2000s sound.
Oh, yeah.
But there's something very sophisticated.
Yeah, and the guitarist, Paul Maroon,
I remember I was like, "Oh, this is my kind of guitarist."
And then I remember when the album finally came out,
this is a real vibe.
I don't know why this song of their ballads really stood out to me.
[electronic music]
♪ My hands come together ♪
♪ And a draw and a breath through my teeth ♪
♪ Yeah, I couldn't shut my sarcastic mouth ♪
How old is Hamilton?
I think he's, if I take a guess, I think he's 42.
Who's older, Hamilton, Lighthouser, or Julian Casablancas?
I think that--
I would say Julian.
Oh, I don't think so.
I mean, the reason--
It's funny because Hamilton--
42, is that-- what?
46.
Hamilton's 46?
Wait, he's older than--
How old's Julian?
He is 45.
So they crossed my desk very early because they're from D.C.
And they all went to St. Albans.
Yeah, and there's the Jonathan Fire Yeater was the--
Yeah, exactly.
And I remember people sending me this very early on
and thinking that this is--
It was too smart for me or something.
I couldn't lock in, you know?
I remember being--
Lock in, bro!
Couldn't do it.
All right, bros, we're going to lock in right now.
So he's 46.
So he graduated ahead.
Interesting.
I always thought of them as in our between years,
between me and you.
And then Hamilton, I think, is the youngest in the band.
Well, yeah, but it's funny.
He and Julian Casablancas are roughly the same age,
but it's also just interesting the way people come across.
From the jump, the sepia-toned album cover,
the everything's kind of woozy,
and even the language he uses,
your curt shots, sarcastic remarks,
he just seemed like from another era.
Whereas Julian Casablancas, the early Strokes vibe was like,
"We're young and fun."
And then the Walkman vibe was like--
Like older?
Kind of like 100 years old.
Even how they dressed.
They dressed older.
Very DC.
I mean, they went to schools that had uniforms, too.
I mean, they went to a very proper--
I think so did the Strokes, probably.
Maybe it's just DC versus New York.
Yeah, it was interesting, the Walkman and the Strokes
being out around the same time.
Yeah, the Walkman just had a kind of grime around them.
A weird old thing.
Jake, did you care about Yankee Hotel Foxtrot by Wilco?
No.
See, that's interesting, because that seems like something
that would sound right delivering Papa John's pizza
in Portland in '01.
Wilco's always bored me.
I've never gotten--
And there's a couple songs here and there that--
No, keep talking.
There's a couple songs in there that I like.
I don't know, I just--
It's a little careful and tasteful for me.
Too tasteful.
Yeah, too tasteful.
Jeff Tweedy's probably been listening to Time Crisis
since the beginning.
You're always talking about the tasteful palette of the 1970s,
and then it's out of nowhere.
Why don't you like Wilco? Too tasteful.
I like it more.
At the time, I really didn't like it.
I was like, this is like Starbucks rock.
This is like coffee shop.
There's no edge to it.
I like it more now, but I would never put it on.
Did you see the movie about--
What was it called? I'm Trying to Break Your Heart?
No.
I'm not a band I'm interested in.
I remember seeing that in the same era, and it made me interested
because it was cool watching them make a record.
Were you into Wilco in '02?
I like this album.
Yeah.
I think this album maybe even came out '01.
Okay, it officially came out in '02.
It had this whole thing where the label dropped it.
I associate this album with the same era as the Strokes first album.
You know what album I did buy in compact disc?
What?
In this era, the Flaming Lips follow up to Soft Bulletin.
Yoshimi?
I bought that because I love Soft Bulletin.
Yeah. Major, very influential album.
Right, and that's from exactly the same time period.
I bought Kid A, too.
Okay, yeah, that's 2000.
Yeah, not indie either.
They played SNL. That was a huge deal.
That was a very anticipated record because I loved OK Computer.
I'm just thinking of albums that I went out and bought.
I did buy the Eminem Show.
No, that's later, though. That's like '06 or whatever.
Eminem Show? No, '05? '03?
'03? Okay, that's the same era.
Did you care about the White Stripes when they came out?
Not a fan. Still not a fan. Hate the White Stripes.
That's my first--that's my band that when I think of being on to something
before anyone else, because I was very into this in this period
because I was, you know, college, very into that Detroit rock,
garage rock scene.
And a guy I've mentioned on the show before, Jordan Stein,
was at Ann Arbor, and he told me there's this husband and wife group.
No.
Brother and sister group. That's how they were--
No, but at the time--
He knew that they were husband and wife.
Yes, because they were just playing around, and they had--
and I remember going to see them play in Washington, D.C.
at the Black Cat, and Meg White is doing the merch booth,
and there's maybe 15 people there.
And then they come back, I think, within a year,
and it's packed.
That was--but I think that early Distills, I think, is still really strong.
Throw that on. What does the first White Stripes record sound like?
I mean, I think it sounds great.
They can't--I mean, I remember White Blood Cells from--
But Distills is pre-that, right?
Yeah, that's even earlier.
And that was very college. But you still--you never got into them?
No, never got in.
Were you ever into that kind of garage rock sound?
I can see you hating it.
I just don't think the songs are good.
I mean, I like the sound.
Oh, come on. They have a lot of good songs.
Play one, because I like the sound. I don't like his--
Okay, wait.
Specifically with White Stripes, I don't like--
What do you like on Distills?
Let's look.
Apple Blossom?
I mean, Apple Blossom's a great one.
I mean, You're Pretty Good Looking for a Girl was a great one.
I like that guitar tone.
Yeah.
I loved garage rock.
I loved surfing garage.
This sounds good. I like this.
Yeah, I miss this. This is sick.
It's more like lo-fi.
Yeah, it's poppy.
But this is the poppiest song I've ever heard Jack White do.
And I mean, more or less the whole record sounds like this.
There's a lot of stuff like this.
I mean, but when the Lego video dropped for this--
Oh, yeah. Michelle Gondry?
Yeah.
I didn't have TV.
This is very--
This, I'm out.
This is very MTV, too.
What's the one over there?
See, I like his singing so much more on the other one.
But what about-- I like when the freaky guitar tones.
This is like later.
You know, this is one where I have a-- I'm firm on my price,
but I have an incredible White Stripes All Distills singles record collection.
Which I gotta think of.
I like this tone.
A lot of people bit this.
And this is when they were huge.
They would drop legitimately weird music.
Very car commercial to me.
Well, it became car commercial because people ripped them off.
Right.
But I remember in '01, this album, White Blood Cells,
that had Fell in Love with a Girl, but I remember the--
The football coach in my high school burned me a CD of this.
He was a cool guy.
This sounded extremely fresh in '01.
So how is this like--
Oh yeah, I remember this.
And also remember, this is '01, so this is still the era of Creed.
Like, in the long tail of grunge.
Right, right.
Closer to a Target for you.
That first one he played was great.
Everything else, not for me.
I don't like the bluesy classic rock thing.
Like the--
Isn't that Aerosmith, though?
Bluesy classic rock?
Yeah, I'm not into Aerosmith, really.
I really like this, too, Hotel Yorba.
Oh, this is a nice one.
I mean, this is still Limp Bizkit era, when this is dropping, too.
[Singing]
This is closer. I think we're closer to a Target with Jake.
Yeah, a little more?
But I think you want the low five.
Nothing is even coming close to that first song he played.
That first song he played, I was like, "Oh, I should check this out."
I will say, that blew my mind when I got that Distills record.
That was--
[Singing]
I just don't like that vocal. It's just not my thing.
You want the early stripes.
Yeah, I want good, poppy songwriting.
It's just like the bluesy--
If you don't like the bluesy stuff, that's going to be a significant percentage of the early stripes.
I didn't like the Black Keys, either.
I mean, yeah.
I didn't like the sort of--
If you're going to do garage, I like that palette.
Write good songs.
Do you like The Hives?
No.
The Vines?
I mean, now we're a full-on car commercial.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, Rance Ferdinand?
I mean, I like that riff.
Like, that single was cool.
That's a good riff.
The single was cool.
This is exactly that same era, too.
You can see that Hyundai driving down the road, though.
I'm like, "Okay. I'm with it. I'm with it."
You're hearing about the APR?
It's a little too noisy for it.
No, I'm positive this is a--
This is sick, though.
Who's this?
The Hives.
Okay.
Are they Swedish?
Yeah.
They're still around.
Yeah.
There's this adjacent band to them that then became car commercial.
You remember the band? I think they were called Jet?
Oh, yeah. Of course.
Yeah.
♪ Just so, all right ♪
♪ Come on ♪
Wait, is Jet--
No, Jet's--
The classic Zero, like the monkey pissing.
We talked about that.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think that's the classic Zero.
Like the monkey pissing.
We talked about that.
Yeah, years ago.
Of course.
I mean, this is one of the biggest songs of the era.
What year did this come out?
What is this?
Are you gonna--
This is--
This is like a Motown.
♪ I need love, love ♪
Yeah, right.
I saw them at the Bowery Ballroom.
This is Jet?
♪ Don't get hurry, love ♪
♪ You just got to wait ♪
This is Jet.
Oh, wow.
Oh.
This is like--
This is more like an old Navy commercial.
I'm still seeing the new Volkswagen Jetta.
This is a three.
Four-wheel drive.
Or it's an Apple commercial.
It's definitely--
Oh, Apple.
iPod.
Yeah, it's an iPod commercial.
This is Shuffle.
It literally was an iPod commercial, right?
Yeah, that is Shuffle.
♪ Four, five, six, come on and get your kicks ♪
♪ Now you don't need no money ♪
Yeah, all these bands.
You look like that, do you, Johannes?
There was a lot of 'tude, but like--
No content.
♪ Big black bones ♪
But again, I--
Oh, my God.
Have I listened to the full length Hives album?
No.
♪ One, two, three, tell me how you gonna be ♪
♪ 'Cause I don't need some money ♪
♪ Why you look like that, do you, Johannes? ♪
I liked all that garage stuff.
I was a garage fan.
I enjoyed surf music and garage music,
so when I saw it come back in these bands doing it,
I was like very impressed.
I mean, maybe not all of them.
Impressed?
Did you like it, or were you--
No, I--
I see what you're doing, I'm impressed.
No, I liked it.
I mean, to me, the White Stripes were obviously a cut above.
They were just cooler and more-- and artsier.
I mean, everything about it was kind of more appealing.
It's not hard to see why that Jets song
was the one that went really far
and was in movies and commercials,
but the White Stripes were like the album covers
and the mythology and the lyrics.
Yeah, I was in as soon as I heard it.
There's a song--
It's been now probably 20 years.
The Big Three Killed My Baby.
You remember this song?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
You know, they're from Detroit.
It's all the big three car companies.
I like their attitude, and they were funny.
That's another thing.
They had a sense of humor that some of the bands
that were truly just playing dress-up,
wearing some bell-bottoms and '70s gear,
they didn't have that artsy streak
that the White Stripes did.
Did you like the Mountain Goats?
See, that's funny.
This stuff--
Love.
This stuff was not on my radar.
Actually, it's been interesting--
All hail West Texas.
It's been interesting to revisit this time period.
When I think about it--
and maybe this is also why,
even in the early Vampire Weekend days,
I felt a little bit uneasy
about being called an indie band.
You know, now it's just like it is what it is.
I embrace it, but I just remember kind of feeling like--
I liked some Left of the Dial stuff.
I loved the history of punk rock.
I loved '80s stuff.
I guess I had indie taste.
I was interested in Canne and The Replacements
and stuff like that.
I knew a bit of Pavement.
You were not a '90s indie guy.
Not really.
When we became friends,
that seemed like a blind spot to you.
I knew Slanted and Enchanted well.
There was a Days Between generational rift.
You were very skeptical of '90s--
like Dinosaur Jr., GBV, all that kind of stuff.
You were just like, "Yeah, it's noisy.
I don't know."
No, it wasn't the noise that put me off.
Were you into Sonic Youth?
I was into Sonic Youth,
but that was weirdly almost like a more random connection.
There was like a kid in my town.
I probably told this story before that when I was like 9,
I went to the drummer of Sonic Youth's apartment,
Steve Shelley, and he gave me a Machine Gun TV t-shirt.
Anyway, so Sonic Youth was on my radar,
and I was so enamored.
And this is also where being a poser
actually can be a good thing.
I thought that the Washing Machine t-shirt was so sick.
Great tee.
So I was like desperate to get it when I was like 11 or 12.
I didn't know that much about music, so I got it,
and then I was like, "I cannot be a poser."
So I bought the album, Washing Machine,
and we even talked on the show.
I love the Diamond Sea.
We've listened to it in its entirety, I remember.
I remember we had a slightly negative tint
because we were kind of saying,
"Thurston, you're never going to be Trey."
Or Jerry.
That's right, because there was some sort of Sonic Youth Trey
back and forth, whatever.
I think after Jerry died, Thurston did some interviews
where he said something like,
"We should be the next Grateful Dead."
I mean, we do interesting stuff, and you're listening,
and you're like, "Bro, you don't solo in the same sense
that Jerry soloed."
Dude, you can't groove to it, buddy.
But no, I thought Sonic Youth was cool,
but again, you know what I probably liked about Sonic Youth,
which is why at the time--
and I did like Pavement a little bit.
I like Slanted and Enchanted.
But the reason that I love Sonic Youth,
but I was having a hard time
until basically this moment in my life,
getting into something as indie as the Silver Jews,
you know why?
Because at the end of the day,
they're always going to be a part of me
that's like a downtown New York snob.
And the fact that Sonic Youth was in this kind of cool downtown,
hanging with the Beastie Boys, ex-girl--
They're like the deans of New York cool from a certain era.
Exactly, and there probably was something about that.
The same reason with punk rock, I was so obsessed with--
I couldn't get enough of learning about the history
of downtown, artsy, weird New York music.
So in this era, too, you know what I was really into?
It was suicide.
Oh, sure.
When suicide got on my radar when I was end of high school,
I was buying expensive CDs and stuff like that.
So there's always that snobby part of me
that I was interested very specifically in English
and New York stuff,
because it was before all this music exploded again,
but I was really tracking--
I was paying $23.99 for a Gang of Four Entertainment CD
and stuff like that just before all this stuff broke.
I've officially listened to every Silver Jews album.
That's a very recent development.
Wow, from the hinterlands.
Yeah.
From Virginia or whatever.
And also maybe now that I haven't lived in New York
in a long time and I've expanded my consciousness
or whatever and I just care less,
I'm just like, now actually a guy like him
who grew up, lived in Kentucky and Texas
and settled in Nashville,
of course I can see how that's actually way more interesting
than being in a loft in downtown Manhattan.
That's so funny.
But it took me a while.
We're the opposite in some ways,
because I had a real aversion to big city cool stuff.
I remember talking with my brother,
we're like, "The Ramones are the only good band from New York."
Really?
I don't think that now.
I wasn't really hip to the Velvet Underground.
I'm saying this conversation was happening in 1997
when I was 20.
Yeah.
And to be fair, New York was not putting up numbers
in the '90s as far as rock music went.
You know what I mean?
'90s is hip hop, incredible hip hop from New York.
I never felt truly connected to the Talking Heads or Lou Reed.
That stuff was a little too urbane and pretentious to me.
I almost had very populist, I don't know,
I just didn't like pretentious rock and roll.
Did you like the Black Crows?
No, because I thought they went too far the other way.
No, but I understand.
But you enjoyed the pretension of the kind of rambling
Malcolm S. Berman-type lyrics with arcane references.
Yeah, I guess that is pretentious in a different way.
No, but I know what you mean.
But what it is, it's not Manhattan.
Whatever it is, it's not Manhattan.
It's smart, it's not lowest common denominator,
but again, yeah, I understand.
And I can see it now, and I appreciate it more as I've gotten older.
Another difference between us is, at the end of the day,
when I really think about it,
growing up, my favorite contemporary band
was not even a band in the classical sense,
it was the Beastie Boys.
And there's no way you were as obsessed with the Beastie Boys as I was.
No, not at all.
I mean, I had Check Your Head and Ill Communication.
Okay, right.
On a compact disc. I like those records.
I wouldn't have expected that you disliked the Beastie Boys.
And it's funny, you think about the Beastie Boys
versus David Berman and Stephen Malcomus,
when you zoom out enough, there's a shared sensibility
of the Beastie Boys finding humor
in certain kinds of references and phrases.
There is something similar, but it is just like
they just represented a different part of the country.
It's just a slightly different sensibility.
I feel like it's that same type of dry Gen X humor.
It's just like David Berman grew up with country music
and lo-fi indie rock, and the Beastie Boys grew up
with obviously hip-hop and hardcore.
Punk rock would be the shared thing that they have, a little bit.
I'm sure they had a lot of shared records
in their respective collections.
Right.
But yeah, Pavement obviously was just into like--
Federal dust versus angel dust.
That's the difference.
References I do not get.
Well, Federal dust is a Silverjuice song.
Okay. Later period?
It's on American Water.
You know, here's the thing, in the streaming,
the last whatever it has been, 10, 15 years of listening
to music on your phone, I don't know titles anymore.
Even albums I know, like American Water,
I know that album well. I don't know any of the titles.
Right, because you were playing the CD in your car
delivering pizza.
I don't know what it was, yeah, I would just absorb the titles more.
[playing in bright rock rhythm]
♪ They don't walk ♪
♪ They don't talk in Malibu ♪
♪
♪ They don't vote ♪
♪ They don't even smoke ♪
♪ I know you're blue ♪
♪ I know you're blue ♪
♪ I know you're blue ♪
Were you listening to Silverjuice albums as they came out?
Yeah.
Oh yeah, American Water, no, that's '98.
American Water's '90s, but you were--
Natural Bridge, definitely.
Walking over to Kim's video.
Tanglewood numbers dropped in the 2000s?
No, I think I saw Silverjuice play in like mid-2000s
in San Francisco, and it was terrible.
And I was like, you know, I never was like--
You know what, f--k it, I'm moving to New York.
[laughter]
Now, like the Silverjuice, especially with younger people,
it seems like the Silverjuice are cooler
or more interesting than Pavement.
I never went all the way there.
I'm still more of a Pavement guy than a Silverjuice guy.
What about you, Nick?
Interestingly, my entry into a lot of the indie
music was when I was in college, first week of freshman year,
this guy Mike Weiss comes up and says, "You gotta listen,"
because I was mainly into hip-hop.
It's like Wu-Tang and all of this.
This kid gives me American Water, the compact disc.
I understood it.
It was--sound like, you know, it's lyric forward.
Nah, fam, that s--t is whack!
But you know, it is--
You're like, "Okay, all right, I'll give you a chance."
Well, you know, it's very lyric forward,
so it's very close to hip-hop, I feel.
David Berman has bars.
It's about personal style, strong personality and lyrical style.
I got obsessed with that, and it's through that that I'm like,
"Oh, s--t, Pavement, who I knew but was never really into,
like, oh, Malcomus is doing this music,
I'm going to get now into Pavement."
So it was very much Silverjuice all the way.
Interesting.
Then I would go any album, because then a lot of those albums
came out when I was in college, and they had just opened
that Kim's Video around Columbia.
And so I'd walk right down any single--
or EP would go bootleg.
I was very into the Jews, and then, yeah,
through that, very into Pavement,
and then into the Mountain Goats.
That was sort of the--
Well, that's what I brought up, yeah.
Yeah, I was really into the Mountain Goats.
So you guys were Mountain Goat-seds.
Big Mountain Goat-seds.
Nah, I wasn't a-- I loved--
All Hill.
All Hill, yeah.
Texas is very much this time.
2003?
2002 or something.
2002.
Boy, this conversation is just getting good.
Maybe we'll continue it a little bit into the next.
Should we do a three-episode?
Should we break this one up and then come back to it,
and we'll just do a three-parter?
Yeah, in the next episode, we can do a little bit of 2000s.
Oh, yeah, you mean three today?
No, no, no.
Apologies to 2000s indie.
Arrowsmith went long.
We'll--
[laughter]
Hopefully we'll get to you eventually.
Because didn't we end the last episode saying
we're going to do a two-parter with this being--
We barely got to it.
So let's do-- it'll be a three-parter where we talk
a little bit about--
Look, how about this?
The whole rest of this year, whenever we can,
we squeeze in a little bit of 2000s indie.
Nice.
We'll always come back to it.
Yeah, we have that playlist.
OK, but how about we go out on a Mountain Goat song,
"The Best Ever Death Metal Band in Denton"?
It's a classic.
All right, we'll see you next time.
We hope you're having a great summer.
And we hope, like us, you'll dedicate this summer
to early 2000s indie and Arrowsmith.
Peace.
♪ The best ever death metal band out of Denton ♪
♪ Was a couple of guys who'd been friends since grade school ♪
♪ One was named Cyrus and the other was Jeff ♪
♪ And they practiced twice a week in Jeff's bedroom ♪
♪ The best ever death metal band out of Denton ♪
♪ Never settled on a name ♪
♪ But the top three contenders after weeks of debate ♪
♪ Were Satan's Fingers and the Killers ♪
♪ And the Hospital Bombers ♪
♪ ♪
♪ Jeff and Cyrus believed in their hearts ♪
♪ They were headed for stage lights and Learjets ♪
♪ And fortune and fame ♪
♪ So in script they'd made prominent use of a pentagram ♪
♪ They stenciled their drum heads and guitars with their names ♪
♪ And this was how Cyrus got sent to the school ♪
♪ Where they told him he'd never be famous ♪
♪ And this was why Jeff, in the letters he'd write to his friend ♪
♪ Helped develop a plan to get even ♪
♪ When you punish a person for dreaming his dream ♪
♪ Don't expect him to thank or forgive you ♪
Best ever death metal band out of dent Will in time both outpace and outlive you
Hail Satan Hail Satan tonight
Hail Satan Hail, hail
Time Crisis with Ezra Koenig.
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