Episode 98: Rock Beefs
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Transcript
Time Crisis back again. We reunite for the first time in many moons. We catch up
on life, love, and rock and roll. We talk beef, wean and fish, 1975 and Imagine
Dragons, maybe even a little Trent Reznor. All this plus the top five songs
this is Time Crisis with Ezra King.
Time Crisis back for real. Can you believe it Jake? A non-banked ep. Crazy.
Feels good. The boys are back in town. Guess who just got back? You just got back.
Guess who just got back today? Them wild-eyed boys that have been away. Haven't
changed that much to say. But man I still think them cats are crazy. This is the
longest I've been gone from LA in a very long time. Almost three months. I was
thinking I think the last time we taped a proper ep. No we did the Chicago
episode. Right so we saw each other in Chicago. In June. I haven't seen you since
Chicago. But before that I think it had been like April. Yeah. Seinfeld's back too.
Hey what's up? Yeah this is a full reunion because Seinfeld missed Chicago. Yeah it's
been a minute. Great to see you. Yeah why'd you miss Chicago? It's just life. Yeah. I don't know I
can't remember. I had something. You're a working man. I was yeah. Family man. You
know all that. All right well Seinfeld for the fans enjoying the banked eps? Has
there been like a revolt against the banked eps? Yeah I think people were
pretty upset that the most recent ep was a rerun. Wasn't even banked. I saw that.
Yeah there was some consternation. A little bit of pushback. Yeah. So that's
like the first straight up rerun we've had in in our whole tenure kind of. Ever.
Yeah. Outside of like Christmas or something. That's right. But I mean
Seinfeld was in reruns even while they were making new episodes. It was in
syndication so. Oh but even back in the day when you I mean I'm dating myself
here but I used to watch TV. You used to have to go down into the living room and
you'd turn on this big box thing. Yeah grab a clicker. The clicker weighed like cement
block. You gotta push the button. Yeah. I even remember rotary dials. Remember those?
On phones? Oh no. Vaguely. I'm about 15 years younger than you I don't remember those.
That's not true. Yeah maybe at grandma's house. Alright. Jake do you call it a
clicker or remote control? Remote. You don't like clicker? Never been a fan.
Didn't have a clicker slash remote growing up. What? But you had a TV? Yeah. A
small 13-inch. Ugh. My parents were like intellectual hippies. We weren't allowed
to watch TV on the weeknights. Damn. Until when? Hmm. Like always? When I got into
baseball and like I could watch like baseball games like during high school
but you know what? What's up? WPIX channel 11. Oh yeah we got that. Yankee
game would end. Guess what came on at 11? Seinfeld. Nice. WPIX was a great station
for people in the tri-state area. There's a while where Monday through Friday it's
before they started having original programming. I think it became the WB
network and then the CW. Oh really? Yeah but it used to be one of these just
random channels. It was like a grab bag channel. Local regional channel. That
didn't really do like original programming. There was news. They had news and then it was
just kind of like you know weird maybe like the people's court that kind of just
random syndicated show and every night at 8 they would just show a movie. Right.
And it would just be like terrible movies but. Or like Back to the Future. I
don't know. I remember like taping movies on the VCR off a TV. Oh definitely.
Taping like PeeWee's Big Adventure. And trying to stop at the commercials. Yeah. I
didn't know you were you had that such a restrictive. Media diet. Relationship with TV
because our big thing growing up is that we didn't have cable so I thought already
I was suffering. I thought that was crazy. So we just had you know the 10 channels.
See now I'm thinking it through my family was inconsistent because we had
cable. You just weren't allowed to watch it very often. My dad would be watching
like A&E like British mysteries. Oh yeah? But here's the thing I remember like in
high school. Yeah. Like ninth grade I'd get home from school no one would be
home. So you watch whatever you want. MTV dude. Hmm. Did you have HBO? No. Oh you
didn't have premium. No. Cable. You had basic cable. MTV, Sports Channel. Yeah. MSG
Network to watch the Yankees. Comedy Central. Wait so Ezra when you didn't have
cable. Yeah. You have 10 channels still? Yeah we had like CBS, NBC. CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC.
Then you had at least in New Jersey you had Channel 9 and Channel 11 that were
two random grab bag channels. UPN right? Or CW? These are the regional channels that became
UPN and CW. In New Jersey we're getting very specific. Channel 9 was tight WWOR.
Yeah they would have weird stuff like that. Yeah WWR, WPX. They were similar
grab bag channels. Channel 9 showed the Mets. There you go. If you're not from the
tri-state area you can just turn off this episode. Just yeah. Yeah so we had those
five then we had Channel 9, Channel 11, then you had PBS and then Univision. Oh yeah.
People talk about how you know attention spans have changed. I vividly remembered
being 12 or something flipping through let's say the 11 channels that we got
and then you know just straight up watching like I'm not gonna pretend that
I would watch Univision for hours but I could picture being 12 like it's also
funny now in the internet era where like nobody myself included would watch
anything for more than three seconds. Right. That wasn't gripping. I think there
were probably times I took down a solid 35 minutes of Univision like fully in
Spanish. Spanish language soap opera. Not understanding a word. Well there's the soap operas I would
sometimes get into. Sometimes there'd be Mexican wrestling which ruled but then
also the I see it referenced a lot and I remember watching it when I was that age.
It's kind of like a talk show variety show called Sabado I don't know how to
pronounce it. Gigante? Saturday what? I guess gigantic? Who speaks
Spanish in here? It would be Sabado Gigante is what it would be. Okay this
show's called Sabado. This is like a major show Sabado Gigante. Nobody in this room
has seen Sabado Gigante. Don't know it. Wow. It's been running since 1963. Oh
really? Wow. And it ended in 2015. What is this? Is it news? No it was kind of like
variety show. I could never fully understand what was going on but there'd
be all sorts of fun stuff happening. Anyway. Why did we get on this? We're just
talking about TV. Well I was saying that back in the day not only would you have
syndicated shows where there'd be a new one on one channel and a rerun on
another. There used to just be that thing where you just be like oh it's Seinfeld
it's Thursday night and then just be like oh it's a rerun. You wouldn't even
know ahead of time. Maybe if you've got TV Guide or something but. Do you remember
NBC had a campaign where it was like if you haven't seen it it's new for you.
That's pretty cool.
Remote control buttons in our sweaty little hands.
As one man, we're lining up and waiting for someone's command.
We don't move.
We sign out for food, get the news on video.
I can't move.
There's no need for movies.
We got HBO with the TVA.
I was asking about the non-cable because in Canada, where I'm from,
if you don't have cable, at least back in the day, it was like two channels.
Only two?
Yeah, it was--
The CBC?
It was CBC and it was global.
And global, I remember, was a little fuzzy.
Really?
They gave you like 80% of global.
So you're essentially living in the '40s.
Pretty much.
One channel.
Yeah.
There was no BBC?
No.
Well, there's CBC.
No, I know, but what is Canada's relationship with the UK?
I've been to Canada twice in the last month and a half.
It got me thinking.
I was like, what--
because Queen Elizabeth is on the quarter.
Yeah.
They're part of the Commonwealth.
That's right.
But I think it was formally severed?
Yeah.
At some point?
I'm going to mess this up.
OK.
Canada is a sovereign nation, but I think the breakup from England
was more amicable.
So there's still this weird fealty to the queen and to the monarchy
and the royalty.
So it's on the money and stuff.
But I don't know.
There wasn't like a--
There wasn't a Canadian armed revolution.
That's right.
But then in Canada, there is a lot of tension with the French speakers.
Yeah, because Quebec tried to separate in the early '90s.
Oh, wow.
There's been violence here and there, and it was very tense, right?
To be like a separate sovereign nation, like Scotland kind of flirted with that.
Yeah.
And obviously Northern Ireland.
I actually remember being a kid and thinking that separation--
because Quebec is kind of not-- it's not on the edge of Canada.
And I remember thinking that they were going to separate literally
from the country somehow, like with dynamite or something.
Put some dynamite on the fault lines.
And just like blow it out.
Right, because you were growing up in Montreal.
That's right.
Yeah.
So I remember being young and being like-- thinking it was a literal separation,
like a geographic separation.
But of course not.
And then they lost.
Do you speak French?
A very rusty--
you can get by in Montreal being Anglophone.
Anyway.
Cool Canada tangent.
Outside of the rerun episode, have the fans been feeling the banked ups?
Yeah.
Yeah, I think they've been feeling the banked ups.
I glanced at the Time Crisis 2000 Twitter not too long ago,
and I was happy to see that you'd gotten the followers up to 15k.
We're actually at 16k now.
Because I remember forever, you were just stalled at 11.
Yeah, I mean--
Just sad.
Yeah, it was a little sad.
But I think--
Easy does it.
--we're down on the way up.
I like a nice round--
I don't like it when it gets into the decimals.
OK, so let's just keep it right at 16 for a while.
Yeah, nobody follow and no one unfollow.
Yeah, if you get too high, just start blocking people.
Well, but also, we could just start going--
we've never gone like full pluckers.
No.
I feel like we've talked about this, but I think that the issue with it right now
is you're doing the vast majority of the tweeting on show day.
That's true.
Which is every two weeks.
That's true.
So you're kind of preaching to the choir.
If you went full pluckers, which is gain followers at any cost,
almost to the point where you overshadow the thing that you're representing,
we don't go too hard on show days.
But we go every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
we're dropping a funny meme to the point that people are like,
oh, do you follow Time Crisis 2000?
And people would be like, oh, yeah, what is that?
Just a meme account?
But no, actually, it's an internet radio show.
Yeah, I mean, that would be a good strategy to pander to the--
I don't care anymore.
I'm just glad that we didn't stall out at 11,000.
So anyway, I feel like the banked episodes were good, right?
They're quality episodes.
Yeah.
We might have been too honest.
About them being banked?
We could just record all those and be like, hey, guys, welcome back.
It's a real scorcher.
It's June.
Anyway, let's open the mailbag, you know?
Would that have been smarter?
Well, you know, it's funny because I think Old Town Road was number one
when we did that first bank app, and it's still number one.
Right.
So you're right.
We could have just kept talking about Old Town Road.
Old Town Road just became the longest running number one
single of all time.
But--
How do you explain that?
Well, part of it is "Cooking the Books."
How do you mean?
That doesn't pass the smell test to me, that that song--
Well, OK.
Well, first of all, it's a massive, massive hit.
I understand that.
I met Lil Nas X at Glastonbury briefly.
Very cool.
Is he a TC head?
Didn't seem very familiar with TC or VW.
The head of Sony Music was like, hey, Lil Nas X,
like, you know Ezra from Vampire Weekend?
He said something like that.
And we had just played, and he was hanging out backstage.
So he was like, oh, yeah, I just saw you on the screen.
Is he on Sony?
Yeah.
This is a big win for--
Label me.
--for our label, Columbia.
So I consider it a personal victory.
So first of all, it's a massive hit, and it's his first song,
and it's incredible.
So I'm not knocking it at all.
Yeah.
More just as a stats geek, the question that I have is,
when did we start counting remixes towards the song?
So I thought you have your song, "Old Town Road,"
then you have your Billy Ray Cyrus version,
then you have your Diplo version, so on and so forth.
I thought that maybe the Billy Ray Cyrus version is number one
for a few weeks, and then it falls off.
Then the BTS remix is number one.
I think they changed the rules so that all the remixes feed
back into the same chart position.
Is that conjecture?
That is what they're doing.
That's my understanding.
And I'm just surprised that that's how the rules work.
Well, first of all, this song was going number one
no matter what.
It's a massive hit.
But I just wonder if this is one of those things where
in years to come, people will be looking through and be like,
well, what are the longest running number one
singles of all time?
And there's going to be a little asterisk next to this one
because most songs don't have five remixes.
I always thought that the remixes were just
promotion for the flagship, "Old Town Road,"
and then the remixes were just a way to keep it in the news
cycle.
Well, first of all, the remixes are a great idea even just
for that.
I can't think of another song that
had this many remixes where there was still
kind of like excitement about it.
The BTS remix is called "Soul Town Road."
Wow.
Because BTS moved from Idaho to Korea.
Right.
Right.
This is like the eighth iteration of BTS.
This joke just never gets old.
Doug's out of the band.
[LAUGHTER]
It's like--
He's part of the management structure.
He's part of the management structure.
He was very early.
He called up Lil Nas X and said,
I need Bill to spill out a remix ASAP.
[MUSIC - LIL NAS X, "SOUL TOWN ROAD"]
(SINGING) I'm gonna take my horse to the soul town road.
I'm gonna ride till I can't no more.
I'm gonna take my horse to the soul town road.
I'm gonna--
Kia.
Ride till I can't no more.
I got the horses in the bag.
Horse tack is attached.
Hat is matted black.
I got the boots that's black to match.
Riding on a horse, ha, you can whip your horse.
I've been in the valley.
You ain't been up off that porch.
Now, can't nobody tell me nothing.
You can't tell me nothing.
Can't nobody tell me nothing.
You can't tell me nothing.
I got the homies in my bag.
Happy, what a life.
Homies made the scale from Korea to the Black.
Riding to the farm, ha, riding on the car, ha.
We gon' get you money with my homie in the back yard.
Can't nobody tell me nothing.
You can't tell me nothing.
Can't nobody tell me nothing.
You can't tell me nothing.
Yeah, I'm gonna take my horse to the soul town road.
I'm gonna ride till I can't no more.
I'm gonna take my horse to the soul town road.
I'm gonna ride till I can't no more.
Yeah, so anyway, I think it's a great idea just
to keep the excitement going about the song.
But my understanding is that every iteration of the remix
all feeds back into one number.
I mean, I guess it makes sense.
But it's not the historical precedent.
I mean, it really is like juicing.
It's like--
A little bit.
It makes sense that Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs when
he was absolutely jacked.
Yeah.
But the players before him weren't operating at that level.
So it's like, that's where-- you know,
that's why there's the asterisk.
It's a little bit like--
It's like a fully different strategy.
Right.
And I know that one of the songs that previously held
the record for longest number one
was like a Mariah Carey "Boys to Men" duet from the '90s.
So you know that song did not have like five remixes.
Yeah.
It just was hanging tough.
Yeah.
What song was it?
Now Scott Weiland and Stormtrooper Pilots
jumping on.
[LAUGHTER]
Oh my god.
That's a cool concept.
What was the song, Seinfeld?
That was "One Sweet Day."
"One Sweet Day."
I'm surprised it wasn't like a Beatles song,
like "Hey Jude" or something that like hung on for like--
Yeah, but think about--
Months and months is crazy.
Yeah, back in the '60s, the bands
would release singles like every couple of months.
Nothing stuck around that long.
So anyway, I definitely don't want to be
knocking Old Town Road's success.
I'm not saying this is a moral argument.
This is just a true stats geek question.
Yeah.
Advanced metrics.
It's a different type of metrics, man.
Also, I wonder if it's the way things are on the internet now
where it's like too big to fail at some point.
Like the big dogs take up all this bandwidth,
and they just hang tough.
And I'm sure streaming helps that in one way or another.
Yeah, but I guess it's just like back in the day,
it's a fundamentally different marketing challenge.
Like we're all fans of marketing here.
Oh yeah.
So it's kind of like if somebody told you that McDonald's
is bringing back the McRib, and you're like,
I want to keep the McRib popping for all three months
that it's out.
I don't want it to be this initial excitement
about the McRib.
Everybody comes and eats the McRib,
and then the sales fall off the next two months.
I want it to stay exciting.
Now, if we're talking the '90s version or older,
then the challenge would be like, all right,
well, how do you keep getting people more and more excited
about the same damn thing?
And you would be like, well, OK, my strategy is month two,
we're going hard with a new advertisement.
We're doing a radio campaign.
Month three, we're doing a contest.
Now, I think my understanding is that the 2019 version
would be like, well, how are you going
to keep people excited about the McRib for three months?
I got an idea.
First two weeks is a McRib.
Second two weeks, it's on a pretzel roll.
And then the final week, there's artisanal pickles on it.
Brooklyn McRib.
Yeah, the Brooklyn artisanal pickle.
I would just say those are two different sets of rules
to operate within.
Very existential, because what you're saying
is once you alter the core McRib,
is it still a McRib anymore?
Right.
I'm waiting for Tom York to show up
on one of these remixes of "Old Town Road."
Tom York is probably up next.
I guess it's also like--
We'll probably have to wrestle--
I don't know why my mind went here,
but we'll probably have to wrestle with similar issues
as DNA science becomes more advanced,
and we have clones and things like that.
Oh, wow.
So maybe at the Grammys, for instance, there will be--
let's say that I decide to make five clone children of myself.
The technology is almost there.
I like where you're going.
And I say, you know what, man?
I'm busting my hump out there on the road with "Vampire
Weekend."
I get home.
I don't even have a second to myself,
because I got to go do my internet radio show.
I got to prepare for that for days.
I got to prepare for that for days.
I want to go out there and make more music,
but I don't have time, man.
So I clone five versions of myself,
and I send one to LA, one to a different part of LA.
I send one to London.
That's a major city.
You have one on the west side of LA, one on the east side.
I got two in LA, because it's a really big music city.
They can't meet.
I guess one in New York.
There's still some music from New York.
One in Atlanta.
And then I send one to Seoul.
I've got all five of my clones busting their humps,
because I can work on "Vampire Weekend."
I have these guys producing, writing songs
for all sorts of people.
And all these guys, by the way, their name is Ezra Koenig.
It's the same DNA.
I did not choose to give these guys different names.
We identify as one living organism.
Wait, what's that [BLEEP] from "Star Trek?"
The Borg.
We're the Borg.
We identify as a Borg, and don't you
dare tell me that we need to identify as different people,
because that's not how we think.
And then Grammy time comes.
Because there's also a funny rule with the Grammys.
If the only thing you produced that year is your own [BLEEP],,
you can't be nominated for producer of the year.
OK, wow.
So you kind of need to get your hands in a few different pots.
And then I come out, and I say, all right, guys,
nominate me for producer of the year.
And they say, well, OK, what did you produce this year?
And I'll be like, well, I mean, with K-pop alone,
I produced over 30 things.
In LA, I was producing some hipsters on the east side,
some Swedish people on the west side.
And then they say, well, hold on a second.
This is an inhuman pace you're working at.
Yeah, this is crazy.
And they say, no, no, no, that was five different guys.
And I'll say, like, they literally
have the exact same DNA.
And I know some smart ass is going to be like,
what about twins?
Twins are something that happened by chance.
I made this happen.
I mean, this is making me think of this concept of a rock
and roll Jurassic Park, where if you could take Mick Jagger's
DNA and then create--
A young Mick Jagger.
--a young Mick Jagger, or dig up Jerry Garcia's remains,
and free--
Concept DNA.
--a young Jerry Garcia.
And then instead of holograms--
It's kind of like a really lame Westworld.
Yeah, it's just like--
The bands could go forever.
All these old billionaire dudes hang out.
And it's like, and by the way, fellas,
when you're done hunting raptors tonight,
come see a Jerry Garcia, Jimi Hendrix, and Jimmy Page jam
together.
You dig up Jim Morrison?
And Jim Morrison on vocals.
Jim Morrison clone, age 22.
[MUSIC - JIM MORRISON, "WHEN I DIG A LITTLE DINER"]
[MUSIC - JIM MORRISON, "CITY OF NIGHT"]
[MUSIC - JIM MORRISON, "CITY OF NIGHT"]
Just imagine like the Grammys has to start having like bylaws about genetics and like defining personhood.
This is a trip.
I storm out in disgust.
Kids, you have to understand, back in the day, there was just one copy of every person.
Right.
So it's like, you know, Elton John was a genius, but there was only one of them.
That's why he only had X amount of number one hits.
Right.
Now we've cloned Elton John, and that's why he has 40 hits this year.
That's right.
And we cloned Bernie Taupin.
It's a little bit like that last Black Mirror episode, which I got to admit, it was not my favorite Black Mirror, the one with Miley Cyrus.
I haven't seen it yet.
Well, whatever.
Is she a pop star in it?
She's a pop star in it, and there's talk about technological ways like how you could do a whole tour in one day.
Think about it, man.
Got to schlep the same.
Like time travel?
No, just.
Oh, the clones.
I think it was clones or something like that.
Wow.
You could just have like a vampire weekend show like once a week in every city.
Yeah, just keep the clones there.
Also, I could send the clones from a young age to a different country so that the soul-based clone, maybe he'd spend every summer with me, and I would teach him my
artistic sensibility.
But he would be raised in Korea.
He'd be fluent in Korean.
A true nature versus nurture experiment.
Yeah.
I also like the idea like the, just picture like award shows of the future that the, like the Oscars has like a very traditional definition of personhood, and the Golden
Globes is like, "F*** it."
The more clones, the better.
They break the seal.
The Golden Globes, very lax.
They drink at the Golden Globes.
Right.
It's a much more lax situation.
Just 87-year-old Leonardo DiCaprio gives a speech on stage about like, "It's not fair. A Borg actor should not be in the same category as a single man."
And just like, "Boo! You suck, you old piece of s***."
And then like the 22-year-old Leo from the Titanic era comes out on stage, his weird clone.
Knifes him.
"I did not give permission to clone me."
I think also beyond the Borg, there's definitely going to be, I know people are probably listening saying that the Borg idea is so crazy, but—
It doesn't sound that crazy to me.
Well, and also even beyond like the five clone idea, because I'm sure people would be like, "No, you're five clones, you're quintuplets or sextuplets. Shout out to
Marlon Wayans."
And we'd be like, "No, we identify as, you know, more like a multiple man from X-Men kind of situation."
And they might not buy it.
Okay, fine. That's going to be a sticky one.
But there's also going to be situations where once people can start like uploading their consciousness to the cloud and stuff, that's going to be some different stuff
where—
Let's say you don't literally create clones of yourself, but you're like, "I uploaded part of my consciousness to the cloud and they just downloaded it, you know, onto
a screen in Seoul."
And then I'm there working with the next generation of K-pop stars.
Just anything that allows you to kind of—
BTS is clones.
Yeah, BTS 3.
And Doug Marsh is clone.
B3S is the third generation.
One way or another, people are going to figure out ways to like split consciousness, whether it's literally through having different beings or something, where you
could do two things at once.
And then somebody's be like, "Well, I can only do one thing at once."
Man.
Yeah, I'm—
Heavy.
Yeah, I'm sorry my dad's not a captain in the Space Force.
I'm sorry my dad's not Jeff Bezos' fifth generation clone.
I don't necessarily have the money to split my consciousness four ways.
It's going to get real sticky.
Well, so anyway, clearly Lil Nas X has really opened a can of worms here.
Yeah.
This is the moment where—
Advanced metrics.
Lil Nas X is opening—you don't want to open that advanced metrics doors because you can't close it, man.
It's a Pandora's box.
Which is why steroids should be legal in the MLB.
Juice Island.
Here we go.
Back to some classics here.
Wait, here's a thought.
This sounds like an essay that somebody would have written.
Is it possible that the reason we cling so tight to these outdated ideas of what fair competition is,
such as, "Oh, you're not allowed to use steroids in baseball,"
is the reason that in institutions like the MLB or the Oscars that doesn't allow borgs,
is the reason that we have these traditionalist views of what's fair?
Because in the institutions that really matter, such as the economy and society and government—
Man.
Man, there really are no rules whatsoever.
You ever think about that?
And that's probably also why people love to call each other out on Twitter too
because it's the only place you feel like there could be some form of justice, man, because we're all so powerless.
Jeff Bezos doesn't play by the rules, does he?
Hell no, man.
That's raw.
According to Bernie, Amazon didn't pay a nickel.
One nickel!
It's so funny that it's a nickel.
That's like so on brand.
I know.
Because a nickel is such like an old person unit.
I know, that debate.
Bernie was so just in classic form.
I didn't watch.
I had no interest, but—
I watched like 20 minutes of highlights with my brother.
Yeah, yeah, I watched some highlights, but even just the way that people watch it—
But the nickel really stuck out to me.
Did not pay a nickel!
Yeah, like I wonder if there's a kid just watching—
What's a nickel?
Do kids know what nickels are?
I'm sure.
Seinfeld, do kids know what nickels are?
Yeah, they know.
Do they know what pennies are?
No.
They don't know about pennies.
Weirdly not.
That's a cutoff.
But anyway, I think there's something to it.
It's like we watch with our—essentially this defeatist attitude, everybody, a defeatist
attitude where you're like, "Amazon literally doesn't pay a nickel in taxes, but you're
telling me I can't take steroids to hit a baseball?"
Too silent.
That's the—
But this was an illusion.
Yeah.
And in the wake of this hypocrisy, Juice Island was formed.
For any people who are listening who aren't hardcore TC heads, I'm amazed you made it
this far in the episode.
But Juice Island was a concept we cooked up.
That's an island where we do all the big sports competitions, but people are just breaking
the records because we let you do whatever you want.
If you want to destroy your body with steroids or whatever, that's on you.
That's during the day, and then at night it's rock and roll, Jurassic Park.
Yeah.
Anyway, so what else is going on?
How are you, bud?
I'm all right.
How's tour been?
I haven't seen you since Chicago.
Yeah, tour's been great.
I mean, Chicago was definitely a high point.
That was great.
But actually since then we had a lot of great shows.
I gotta say, I think I said it in the last episode, like, I love tour in the Midwest.
Yeah?
That's vampire country, man.
I mean, just that run was just so good.
There wasn't a bad show.
Then we went to Europe.
And I'll admit, I was a little bit hesitant about going to Europe.
Why's that?
Because I'm all American, man.
Okay.
This country has a lot of problems, but at the end of the day-
Vampire's going heartland rock.
We're heartland.
I think I said this in the last episode, vampire weekend in terms of our tickets is a lot less
coastal elite than people might think.
Interesting.
There's nothing worse, and I feel bad if you are the type of artist, but I think I said
this, like, show up in the US, numbers looking good in New York and LA, but you're not worth
a damn in Milwaukee.
Right.
Come on.
That's how you lose an election.
You're playing-
Meat and potatoes, dude.
That's right.
Meat and potatoes, rock and roll.
And also, I've heard a lot of people- I don't know, this hasn't been my experience, but
I've heard a lot of people in the music industry say, too, like, that New York is one of the
most disloyal markets.
We're from New York.
Like, fickle?
Yeah, we're from New York, so maybe it's a little bit different.
We've never, like, struck out in New York.
Right.
But if you're, like, on the way down, people in New York are like, "Oh, I'm out.
I'm gonna check the new thing out."
Yeah, people have said that, although there's a part of me that's like, "Are they just picturing,
like, a Manhattanite kind of, like-
A feat?
Yeah, just being like, "Oh, that's over?"
Yeah.
Because at the end of the day, New York is a big area, and there's, like, people from
Jersey and Connecticut, you know?
And people are fans of things.
Right.
But anyway, it has this reputation that it's a fickle market.
Huh.
But look, the whole world's fickle, you know?
Anyway, we had a great time in the Midwest, and then we're going to Europe.
And there was a part of me that's like, "Obviously, it's not cool to be American.
You shouldn't be proud of being American.
You shouldn't be proud of anything, in my opinion."
Agreed.
But at least when we tour the US, I'm in the same time zone as my loved ones.
Right.
I have more context for everything.
Because, you know, like, as I get older, too, I'm sure we've had this discussion, like,
you know, you go to Europe, you go to Amsterdam for the first time, you, like, look at the
architecture, and it's unbelievable, the art, and there's so many amazing things.
But then at the end of the day, like, if I go take a long walk in, you know, Milwaukee
or Cleveland, I just have more context for it.
I'm a real American.
Again, not pride, but just like, you know, it's the country that I'm from, and I can
just understand things, I think, on a deeper level, or at least I'm almost more curious
or something.
Yeah.
Because I even find, like, now I'm harder on myself.
When you're young and you-- I didn't leave the country until I was-- the first time I
left was I was 14.
So only once or twice until the Vampire Weekend era when we started touring a lot.
But I also find a little bit, like, now that I'm older, when I have these thoughts, you
know, if I'm in, you know, like, Spain, and I see, like, a sign for a movie, it says some
random thing that's kind of, like, funny.
Then there's this other voice in my head that's like, man, you don't even know what you're
looking at.
Yeah.
Chill out, man.
It's like when I was a kid watching Saburo Higante, just no idea what was happening.
I was trying.
So if you walk through Milwaukee, there's context.
Yeah.
This probably sounds kind of ignorant.
It's like-- it almost sounds like I don't want to know, because I do want to know everywhere
I go.
I'm just saying right off the bat in the US, and maybe because it's kind of a crisis moment
in the US-- Right.
--that somehow I almost feel like I just want to know more what's going on or something.
Vampire goes heartland.
You got to clean up your own backyard first.
Red and white.
Blue suede shoes.
I'm Uncle Sam.
How do you do?
Give me five.
I'm still alive.
Ain't no luck.
I learned to duck.
Check my pulse.
It don't change.
Stay 72.
Don't shine or rain.
Wave the flag.
Pop the bag.
Park the boat.
Skin the goat.
You're listening to Time Crisis on Beast1.
So I was a little bit like, oh, what's this going to be like in Europe?
Turned out it was great.
Were you playing festivals or just like playing like a club?
Like you play in like Madrid.
What was the show?
It was a festival called Mad Cool Festival.
1 AM set.
What?
Yeah, that was kind of brutal.
For two hours?
No, nobody asks you to play two hours at a festival.
Hour?
I think 75.
Holy.
And I mean, it was a great crowd and it was a beautiful night.
It was just brutal for me because I was really tired.
So yeah, it was mostly festivals.
That's wild.
But we did two club shows.
One was in Zurich and one was in Milan.
And also I had really low expectations for those two because we hadn't played a proper show in Italy in 10 years.
Like we just didn't go there on the last album.
And then in Zurich, we hadn't played a show in Zurich since 2008.
It's like 11 years.
So I was a little bit like, is this going to be like a bummer?
You know, we just had this like great time in the Midwest.
Is this going to feel like, wow, we're really-- this is not--
Not our audience.
Yeah.
And then actually it was cool because like the people who were there were like--
There was really like a sense of like we've been waiting.
So we like played real long shows and it was a great vibe.
Oh, we also did a headline show in Dublin.
Wow.
And when we played Jerusalem, New York, Berlin, the crowd sang Jerusalem, New York, Dublin.
But no, actually that tour was pretty tight.
We played Poland for the first time.
That was a great crowd at a festival.
We played Rasgulda in Denmark before Wu-Tang Clan.
That was great.
Yeah, actually it was all good.
Did you get to link and build with the Wu-Tang Clan?
Was there any interaction backstage with--
Well, you know that RZA was in the Giving Up the Gun music video.
Oh, that's right.
I haven't spoken to him since then, but we were actually backstage at catering
and we were all sitting down and then we see like, you know, 40 feet away,
there's a long table with all of Wu-Tang Clan.
Method Man was not on the tour though.
The Wyvern Method Man was not there.
And so I was looking over and we were all like pretty excited to see Wu-Tang
and I was thinking to myself, okay, it wouldn't be crazy to say what's up to RZA.
He was in our video and he was cool.
So I said, you know what, if I find myself within five feet of RZA, I'll say hi to him.
Didn't happen.
I was about 30 feet away from him at one point, but I'm not going to beeline it over to him.
You know, I didn't want to force it.
Because what do you say after that really?
You go, hey, you're in my video.
Right.
The conversation.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
I remember that.
How's it going?
Yeah, well, thanks again, man.
That was great having you in there.
Yo, for real, my pleasure.
You mean this Trump stuff?
Just to Tri-State.
You know what I probably could have said to him?
I probably could have said like, yeah, just like, thank you for being in the video.
Absolutely.
Be like, you're from the Tri-State area, right?
Staten Island.
And then I read his book.
I'm a fan.
Then he lived in New Jersey for a long time.
I also was born in New York and then lived in New Jersey.
Oh, for real?
Yeah.
Remember when WPIX showed movies at eight?
I bet he would remember that.
What do you think about Connecticut's role in the Tri-State area?
Well, you know, it's not a RZA song, but there's a famous Wu-Tang song that says Connecticut.
Have we ever talked about this?
No.
News to me.
Are you talking about incarcerated Scarfaces?
Yeah, that's right.
Raekwon.
Yo, yo, what up, yo?
Time is running out.
It's for real, though.
Let's connect politics, ditto.
We can trade places.
Scarface related style attract millions.
Fans, they understand my plan.
Who's the kid up in the Greenland?
Me and the RZA connect.
Blow a fuse, you lose.
Half-ass fools get demolished and bruised.
Fakely frontin', hourglass heads.
You can be wantin'.
Shuttin' down your slots, time for plumpin'.
Poisonous stink, which dumps up enact chunks.
Rays a heavy generator.
But yo, guess who's the black Trump?
Whoa, Trump.
Here we go.
I remember there was a Trump line.
Peace to power in my home unit.
Word up, quick to set it, don't wet it.
Real nigga in slick shots, peace, Connecticut.
Okay, what was the line?
Well, we can't say it.
Something take shots, peace, Connecticut.
Actually, Seinfeld.
So they're leaving Connecticut?
Yeah, unless they're saying like, peace to Connecticut.
Like, Seinfeld, open this up in Genius.
'Cause I remember even being a kid and hearing this,
like, peace, Connecticut, just like.
Wait, what's up with Connecticut?
Yeah.
So Raekwon was interviewed about this,
and he said, "The sound--"
For the Hartford Sentinel.
Where was it?
Hartford Current.
That's right.
"This song is definitely people's favorite record,
"especially when I go to Connecticut.
"I call it the Connecticut anthem."
Whoa.
You never heard about this, Jake?
All those years in Connecticut?
I'm out of the loop on this one.
You were listening to too much BTS back in this era.
That's right.
Does he say what it meant?
So he doesn't actually,
he talks about the impact of that line,
but he doesn't really talk about why he said it.
I guess it's just a random shout-out to a tri-state--
Neighbor.
Neighbor, yeah.
He says--
Peace, Connecticut.
It's like I put the whole state in my pocket when I did that.
Very savvy.
Underserved market.
Connecticut doesn't get a lot of love in rap,
so for Raekwon to do that, I think--
I can't tell if he's giving it love,
but I'll take him at his word.
It's a shout-out.
Speaking of geographic reference to get the crowd going,
I mean, I've thought about this before
because Vampire Weekend has all sorts of geographic references,
and they're all generally positive,
but one of the shows we have coming up this year
is in Norfolk, Virginia.
And, you know, so far, even with Vampire Weekend's
strong commitment to switching up the set list and stuff,
I've been very hesitant, I think we all have,
about doing this kind of suck-up stuff.
So we've been dropping a lot of covers,
you know, mixing it up here and there.
But so, for instance, as any VW head knows,
we have a very faithful cover of The Boys Are Back in Town.
Love it.
So you can imagine in Dublin--
Oh, that went off.
No, no, no.
Did you do it?
No, no, we didn't do it.
Okay, yeah, because it would feel like it was pandering.
We talked about it.
We thought that would be too much of a suck-up move.
Come on, do Cowboy Song.
Okay.
Or just do, like, a random other cover.
Did I tell you we've been dropping Don't Dream It's Over?
I think we've done it, like, four or five times.
Oh, I'm psyched to hear that.
♪ Hey now, hey now, don't dream it's over ♪
It went down really well, and then we walked off stage,
and I think I was talking to Bayo, and he was like,
"Man, that felt really good, like, people were into that."
And Bayo was like, "Well, this is the first time we've covered a hit."
Hmm.
We've been dropping, like, Joker Man all the time.
Right, right.
Nine-minute Joker Man.
People are like, "What is this?"
We closed out our set at a festival in the Netherlands
with a 10-minute Joker Man.
That's so legit.
That was a Bayo call.
He's been making a lot of good calls with the setlist,
because he--
Closing with Joker Man.
Because he did some research, and he was like,
"Look, we play different festivals.
There's some where you just want to bring it, nothing but hits."
And then he was like, "Listen, this festival's a little funkier.
Like, right after us, Tom York plays."
[laughs]
Are you serious?
Yeah.
So 10-minute Joker Man into Tom York's solo set.
Well, he was on a different stage, but it's, like, a funkier--
The headliner was Underworld, who's kind of like dance.
I wouldn't-- They're not particularly left of center,
but they're cool.
I think it's an alternative.
So, yeah, on the bill that day was like Camasi Washington, Tom York.
Gotcha.
And then Underworld.
So I think Bayo had the sense of, like--
You know, Glastonbury, we played after Miley Cyrus.
So hits.
Oh, and she was just nailing hits.
Yeah, yeah.
Although we took some chances at Glastonbury.
We closed with Jerusalem, New York, Berlin.
Thought that was bold.
Strong choice.
But anyway, normally dropping the 10-minute Joker Man at festivals feels very hit or miss.
We did it twice.
We did it down the rabbit hole, which people get in.
They always get in by the end.
The first five minutes, I sometimes look out.
I don't even want to look out.
It's just like, "Are you into this?"
We also dropped Joker Man in our festival set in Portugal.
Wow.
We've never done a festival where we lost too many people,
except actually we did a festival in Korea once where we played Hannah Hunt.
This was in the early days of MVOTC.
It's before Hannah Hunt was considered a fan favorite.
And we definitely lost a significant percentage of the crowd playing Hannah Hunt.
Like they peaced out?
Or they just were on their phones?
No, no, they peaced out.
They're like, "Oh, this is slow. Minor key one. I'm leaving."
Yeah, maybe we'd already played A-Punk or something.
I'd like to think if we went back, we'd get a better reception.
♪ Gardner told me some plants move, but I could not believe it ♪
♪ To me and Hannah Hunt saw crawling vines and weeping willows ♪
♪ As we made our way from Providence to Phoenix ♪
♪ A man of faith said hidden eyes could see what I was thinking ♪
♪ I just smiled and told him that was only true of Hannah ♪
♪ And we glided on through Waverly and Lincoln ♪
♪ Days were long, our nights no longer ♪
♪ Count the seconds, watching hours ♪
♪ Though we live on the US dollar ♪
♪ You and me, we got our own sense of time ♪
♪ In Santa Barbara, Hannah cried amidst those freezing beaches ♪
♪ I walked into town to buy some kindling for the fire ♪
♪ Hannah told the New York Times I've been to be sick ♪
♪ If I can't trust you, then damn it, Hannah ♪
♪ There's no future, there's no answer ♪
♪ Though we live on the US dollar ♪
♪ You and me, we got our own sense of time ♪
♪
♪
♪ If I can't trust you, then damn it, Hannah ♪
♪ There's no future, there's no answer ♪
♪ Though we live on the US dollar ♪
♪ You and me, we got our own sense of time ♪
Oh, but anyway, so I was thinking about how, you know, VW, generally speaking, you know,
we're not gonna drop Boyser back in town in Dublin.
Right.
Because I feel like the Dublin fans, they probably get that all the time.
And there's probably somebody who's at the show listening just like, "That would've ruled, you're a moron."
But, who knows?
They could've ruled.
It would've felt like a little low-hanging fruit.
I see what you're saying.
I like--
I see what you're saying.
That's a song we bust out, like, we played it at our really small post-Lollapalooza Chicago show.
That was no phones, you know, for like a thousand people.
That was a good vibe, 'cause that was like something special.
You played it at Webster Hall.
We played it at Webster Hall, and that was a special show.
And we played it at Fuji Rock in Japan with Danielle.
Kind of random, but cool.
Anyway, so that brings me back to Norfolk, Virginia, because Jake has a dead head.
Oh, yep.
When you hear Norfolk, Virginia, what's the first song you think of?
Left my home in Norfolk, Virginia.
Kind of phone you on--
So if people don't know this song, it's originally by Chuck Berry, and then The Grateful Dead just covered it constantly.
Oh, yeah.
And Richard Pictures.
So you guys have done it a lot.
We're doing it this summer.
So if there's people out there who maybe bought our shirt, notice in the back it said "The Promised Land Tour."
You called the tour "The Promised Land Tour."
Yeah.
Left my home in Norfolk, Virginia, California, on my mind.
I straddled that greyhound and rode him into Raleigh and on across Carolina.
I wish I got a dead version.
What year is this?
'77.
Okay.
Palladium, New York.
Left my home in Norfolk, Virginia, California, on my mind.
It's a little slow-ish.
That's Bobby.
On across Carolina.
You know, it's across my mind, like, oh, Norfolk, Virginia, like, Promised Land.
And then I thought for a second.
Too basic.
And also, look, I bet you kick into this, "Left my home in Norfolk, Virginia," you're going to get a few cheers, a la Peace, Connecticut.
Yeah.
When you're doing a Connecticut Raekwon show.
Yeah.
But then I thought, I was like, what's this song about, man?
This song's about leaving Norfolk, Virginia to go to California.
You're going to tell me you're going to get a whole Los Angeles-based band rolling up to Norfolk, Virginia for the first time,
and we're going to think we're so clever to bust out a song about leaving Norfolk, Virginia for the state that we're incorporated in?
That's how you lose an election.
That's how you lose an election, folks.
That's rough.
That's rough stuff.
Rough stuff.
The first thought that I had was, what if I painstakingly rewrote the lyrics about leaving California to come back to Norfolk, Virginia?
I left my home in-- it's got to be a one-syllable-- left my home in Weed, California, Norfolk, Virginia, on my mind.
Weed.
I left my home in Old California.
I had Norfolk on my mind.
Straddled that greyhound, rode it into Phoenix on the cross of--
Albuquerque line.
Yeah, I don't know.
Santa Fe line.
So anyway, I thought about that, and then I was like, hmm.
Maybe no covers in Norfolk.
Or the other thing that crossed my mind, just bust out a different Chuck Berry song.
But then I'm like, this is getting convoluted.
Yeah, that's--
It was a teenage wedding, and the old folks wished--
What is this guy, a Pulp Fiction fan?
Yeah.
I kind of want to look up--
Ooh, how about--
--what artists have busted out "Promised Land" in Norfolk, Virginia.
That's not an easy thing to search, Seinfeld.
Can you think of an easy way to search?
You get a number crunch on that.
My question was, you got some big shows coming up.
Yeah.
You got MSG in September, and you got the Hollywood Bowl with Richard Pictures in October, October 2nd.
That's right.
Any covers in the mix for October?
You're not thinking that far ahead.
Do an Eagles song, dude.
We could work out something new.
I mean, you know, we busted out "One Piece Frog" so far.
Oh, dude, I saw that.
You saw it?
I saw that.
Somehow that crossed my transom.
Yeah.
It was a great version.
I was very happy, too.
Note for note.
It was very faithful.
Yeah.
We didn't have a lot of time to work on it in Soundcheck because there was a storm coming.
It rained, like, super hard right in between Soundcheck and the show.
Whoa.
That was in Charlotte, North Carolina.
I was very happy that I saw on Instagram, just like some person who's at the show, you know,
they posted their pictures that they took and did a little write-up, and they're just like,
"I gotta say, set highlight for me, 'Piece Frog' cover."
Yeah, I mean, I saw, like, a full video of it.
I don't know where.
You mean, like, somebody had the whole video?
Yeah, it was on, I think I sent it to the Time Crisis text thread, even.
Really?
Yeah.
And, like, someone had, like, put the whole version up, and I was like, "Damn."
I think that James Taylor may have covered it.
In Norfolk?
I believe so, but this is a tough crunch.
I'm not gonna lie.
That's so weak.
That James Taylor cover.
Like, a James Taylor show in Norfolk.
I left my, I left my...
Oh, my God.
I mean, James Taylor's cool.
He's one of my least favorite singers.
I cannot stand him.
Really?
Super out with JT.
I prefer Justin Timberlake to James Taylor every time.
If you're talking JTs.
Well, I think, come on, most people do.
Mmm.
Over a certain age, I mean.
I left my home in Norfolk, Virginia.
The Grateful Dead performed "Promised Land" 428 times.
Wow.
That's a lot.
Well, James Taylor played it 53 times,
so he probably wasn't dropping it just because he was in Norfolk, Virginia.
We gotta look for the people who've only played it, like, a handful of times.
Maybe most people were thoughtful enough not to cover it in Norfolk, Virginia.
Left my home in Norfolk, Virginia, California, on my mind
Stood all that greyhound and rode it into Raleigh and on across Carolina
Stopped in Charlotte, but we bypassed Rock Hill, we never were a minute late
We was 90 miles out of Atlanta by sundown, rollin' out of Georgia State
Had some motor trouble and turned into a struggle halfway across Alabama
That hound broke down and left us all stranded in downtown Birmingham
So he right away bought me a flu train ticket right across Mississippi Clean
And I was on that special flyer out of Birmingham smokin' Indian Uoli
Well, I recently sent a video to the thread.
So there's these great videos on YouTube called "Anatomy of a Jam"
and they're made by a guy who's a guitar-- he's a musician and I guess also kind of, in a way, a music historian.
His name's Amar Sastry.
It's a little bit like a podcast, but it's more like a video essay.
Yeah.
And so this dude's like a super hardcore fish head
and he'll choose certain iconic fish jams and he'll break them down.
And I sent this one to the thread and I'll say the same thing I said to the thread.
I was like, "If you're not that interested in the jam part, you're going to love the first 10 minutes
and then you're going to get lost for the last 20."
It got very technical.
They're all about 30 minutes because--
Over my head.
Yeah, the first 10 minutes, the guy who makes it, he'll really get into the backstory of the song they were doing.
Like the history of the song. Did Fish write it? Is it covered? Did somebody else write it?
What's the song about? How did it come to Fish? When did they start playing it?
And that stuff's very interesting.
And then he'll get into the actual jam stuff and then you really have to be interested.
Music theory guy.
Yeah, but I mean I kind of love it.
They're really well made.
But anyway, one of the big ones that he has up, and I recommend people watch it,
is about Fish's--a legendary performance that Fish did of the Ween song "Roses Are Free."
And the one he's talking about was performed on April 3rd, 1998, and it's a 27-minute version.
And you know, so I'm like, "All right, cool. Fish covered Ween. They're like birds of a feather."
Also a Fish song.
Well, I didn't really know the backstory and--
Not really.
And this dude got into it.
Not a lot of crossover.
So basically, to summarize the video and the backstory,
Fish started playing the Ween song "Roses Are Free" in '97.
And you'd think that, you know, Fish at the time, the big band, you know, Ween would be psyched about it.
No. In fact, Ween was so pissed that they stopped playing the song out of disgust.
This is the original Ween version, "Roses Are Free."
Off the "Chocolate and Cheese" album.
So you're a Ween fan.
Oh, big time.
You like this song?
Oh, I love it.
Were you aware that Fish was covering it in the '90s?
At some point. I mean, I never liked Fish. Still don't.
But I do remember hearing about that, like, maybe like the late '90s, that Fish was covering it.
And yeah, it was definitely like a novel surprise to hear that.
There's a lot of crossover in terms of, like, vibe.
Yeah. I can see it more now.
This is a live version, not the 27-minute one.
I mean, Ween and Fish just feel like opposite sides of the same coin.
Narcissism, small difference, man.
Opposite sides. Yeah. No, totally.
I mean, I would think Fish has an earnest approach and Ween has an ironic approach.
Yeah, Ween's postmodern and punk.
Just imagine it's '97 and you're explaining the situation to OK Computer era Tom York.
Just like, "Are you aware of the two American bands Ween and Fish?"
And be like, "Yeah, a little bit."
And just be like...
"I hate them both."
Yeah, exactly.
You just, like, wouldn't get it.
Because he'd be like... I mean, I feel like York would probably be more down with Fish.
I don't feel that.
Because the early Ween stuff was like, hella lo-fi.
Like, deliberately anti-social and abstract.
Which is much more the Tom York vibe.
I'm just saying that, and I like Ween and Fish, they're both bands with a sense of humor and a lightness.
They're both very musical.
They both have chops.
But it's like, compared to Radiohead is self-serious.
Yeah.
Which, probably for the best.
We don't necessarily want a chocolate and cheese from Radiohead.
But I'm just saying, I'm just picturing him and me.
Like, you play him the Ween "Roses Are Free."
And then you play him the Fish version.
And you're just like, "So you can imagine when Ween heard about this."
He would just be like, "The first song's a joke, and these guys did a joke cover of it."
What's the problem?
It's a problem. A bunch of comedians fighting with each other.
I'm a real artist.
Or maybe we're being too hard on it.
Tom York would have been like, "Well, I see where Ween's coming from.
As a Ween mega-fan, I can imagine--" I don't know.
I just feel like Tom York would be like, "It's all some weird-ass American s--t that I don't understand."
I bet you Ween thought that Fish were a bunch of dorks.
I know, but--
And it's not necessarily justified.
But Ween are dorks.
Are Ween not dorks?
I think Ween is like, or was back 20 years ago, was like self-aware.
Kind of what Nick was saying.
Just like, ironic, detached.
I know, but Fish is self-aware.
I don't know if they are.
Oh, come on.
Define self-aware.
I guess self-aware starts to become a slippery term.
Everything that I've ever seen, every interview, including in the '90s,
it's like when they would do kind of fun stuff, they'd know they were having fun.
Yeah, no, you're right.
I could see Ween and Fish both being really into Zappa.
I think the similarity that I see is that they're both artists who you'd probably be like,
"Do you take music seriously?"
And they'd be like, "Dude, are you kidding? I'm a huge music nerd.
I listen to music nonstop. Can't you see how much I practice? I'm like a [expletive] shredder."
And you'd be like, "Yeah, of course."
And yet the music you make has a sense of humor at times.
Yeah, they both do.
Rather than say who has more of a sense of humor, I would say that Fish has a little more heart.
Is that fair to say?
I don't even know if I agree with that.
This is going to be very triggering for Jake.
It's like slippery terms.
This is very triggering for Jake.
No, it's not triggering. I just like--
I always associated Fish and Ween just because I knew a lot of people who listened to both.
Right, right, right.
Growing up in the tri-state area.
That's a very tri-state area kind of Jersey--
Oh, big time.
Connecticut dude would easily like Fish and Ween.
Wishing for a fiend.
Remember on that episode we were talking about the multi-hyphenate cover bands?
Like Pink Talking Fish who covers Pink Floyd talking about the fish?
Oh, that would be a sick band.
We should just start one called Wish.
They just do Ween and Fish covers?
Yeah.
I mean, it kind of harkens back to like in the 90s.
There was those much more intense divides.
I remember in the 90s I was really into Pavement and all those kind of cool indie bands.
But I love the dead still.
And that seemed very incongruous and confusing to a lot of my friends.
Right.
So I could see in this similar way the guys in Ween and within the Ween community initially being very turned off by like--
Right.
What they saw as like an earnest hippie kind of thing.
And they were probably also somewhat young so maybe they felt the need to like really assert their taste.
Right.
And sometimes when you're young that means being a dick.
Let's get into it.
So Fish starts covering Roses Are Free '97.
Ween stopped playing the song out of disgust.
In an interview Gene Ween calls Fish boring.
And Dean Ween complains about stinky hippies coming to their shows as a result of Fish covering them.
Yeah.
Sorry we made you guys an extra 800 bucks at your Norfolk, Virginia show, dicks.
[Laughter]
Fish continues to cover Roses Are Free.
I love that Fish like doubled down.
They probably like caught Ween that Ween was like kind of like thumbing their nose at them.
And they're like let's just keep doing it.
And this is where my question arises because in the anatomy of a jam there's a lot of information.
But I don't know if Amar who makes the video has the answer to this.
He basically says Fish should start covering it.
Ween's like we hate them.
Mm-hmm.
We're not doing it.
You've got to assume that Fish would hear about this.
Word would get back.
I mean it's pre-internet.
It might not have been, you know, two minutes later like it would be today.
But, you know, let's say within a few weeks.
Yeah, sure.
And anyway Fish continues to cover it most notably in this 27-minute version that we're talking about.
April 3rd '98.
Widely considered one of Fish's best improvisations.
And then sometime after that Ween begins playing the song again '99 in an effort to reclaim it.
So I guess my question is, and, you know, I'm sure maybe this is something we'll do in an investigative journalism episode.
We'll actually hit up some of the dudes in Fish who me and CT met in St. Louis.
Shout out to them.
Or maybe Ween.
I'll hit up Fish.
You hit up Ween.
I actually interviewed Gene Ween in 1996 for college radio.
Really?
And he was a huge dick.
Wow, and you're still riding for this guy?
I was bummed.
Wow.
I love Ween.
You're like a Trump voter.
This guy blatantly disrespects you at every turn and you're just like, "Sir, it is an honor."
I'm just doubling down.
I'm the biggest Ween fan.
You know, if we get one of those guys on the horn, we're all a little bit older.
No, I'm not going to bring it up.
You gotta bring it up.
I was a very nervous 19-year-old college student.
Yeah.
Quote-unquote interviewing Gene.
Hi, Gene.
Yeah, just in their back, in their green room.
Yeah.
Just like, "Why was I there?"
I had no good questions.
I was just like, "He didn't have to be a dick, but water under the bridge."
We're all a little bit older now.
Anyway, in recent years, Ween's feeling on Fish seemed to have changed with Dean saying,
"Fish, by covering it, made it one of our popular and most crowd-pleasing tunes."
Oh my God.
For that, we owe Trey forever because it opened up so many people's ears to the music of Ween
and introduced us to a whole new audience within the jam band scene, which never would
have happened otherwise.
Then in 2016, both bands headlined the Lock-In Festival jam band festival.
Ween headlines Thursday and then opens for Fish on Friday.
Dean Ween says, "I'd be lying if I said that opening for Fish wasn't a big deal.
All I'll say is that we really wanted to play our asses off in front of those guys who are
friendly with going back a long ways.
Call it friendly competition."
But Dean still hates Ween/Fish fans and states that he wants their set to harsh their vibe.
Okay, so it sounds like--
You want it?
Okay.
My impression, because I was reading about that show, it seems like they didn't have
a great time playing before Fish, and they were a little bit like, "We headlined last
night, now we've got to play before Fish."
But they weren't actually dissing Fish.
They accepted that Fish are their friends now, and they were more like, "We just don't like
playing in front of a Fish audience."
So whatever, they're still a little prickly about that.
Oh yeah.
So you were wondering 20 years ago--
I was wondering when Fish-- or maybe it's just Trey himself.
When Trey decides to keep the jam going--
Are they flexing?
Was it a flex on Ween?
Was he like, "You know what, guys?
I hear you saying that you don't like Fish, and you don't like us covering your song.
Well, here's a 27-minute version for your ass."
That's pretty sick.
You gotta give me that.
That's tight.
That's so sick.
And also--
When we got back to the Ween camp, "Yo, Fish just dropped a 27-minute version of 'Rose
of Freedom.'"
I was like, "What?"
Yeah.
That is so sick.
And also, you gotta say, that's being-- it's an outdated phrase, but that's being the bigger
man.
The bigger man.
Well, and also, just like smash cut 20 years forward, it's all water under the bridge.
Right.
And they're playing a show together.
It's just so classic.
But the thing that I'm fascinated about is that there's so many holes in this story.
Also, was it truly a game time decision?
Because actually, talking to the Fish guys a little bit backstage-- because you always
wonder, with bands who truly-- where the set lists are just insanely different every night,
you wonder to what extent that's off the cusp.
And just talking to them-- because we were hanging out with them three hours before--
we were both playing in St. Louis.
Wow.
And so me and CT went over.
Wow.
And we were asking them, "What's up with the set list?"
And they're just showing us how they kind of narrow it down in the morning.
And I don't know.
They have a whole system.
But basically, even three hours before, they don't know exactly what they're going to do.
And they'll famously bust out-- every show, they'll bust out at least a handful of songs
that haven't been played in months or years.
And they just kind of roll with it.
So anyway, my question is, were there some tour bus conversation where they're just like,
"Guys, how do we respond to this weaning aggression?"
And maybe one dude's like, "Let's stop playing this song, man.
We've provoked these guys enough.
They don't f--- with us.
All right, whatever.
Why should we be getting their paper higher?"
And then Trey's like, "I don't want to take it out of the set."
Or was there a discussion?
Yeah.
And then was there perhaps even more discussion?
It's like, "You know what we should do?
We should do our longest version ever of 'Roses Are Free.'"
Or were they just-- Trey goes into it.
Trey starts playing it that night.
And the guy's like, "Oh, man, we're still f---ing shouting these assholes out."
"I thought we were doing this."
And then it gets past the eight-minute mark or whatever, and they're like,
"What are you doing, man?"
"We're going in."
Then, of course, my other question is, how did wean come to respect Phish?
Because clearly there was-- Or do they?
It sounds like it.
At least in interviews-- I wonder if it's just kind of political at this point.
Yeah, those bills start piling up, and Dean's like, "You know what?
I respect those guys."
"Yeah, I don't know."
Who knows?
And weren't they the same label?
Wasn't there a whole thing in that video about--
They were both on Elektra, signed by the same person.
Right, there was an A&R person.
Named Sue Drew.
Good name.
We got to track her down.
And she sent Trey a copy of "Piraguava," and that's how he got really into it.
Yeah, yeah.
You're listening to...
[beatboxing]
Time Crisis.
On Beefs 1.
And speaking of beef, I almost don't know if I want to get into this, man.
Because this is spicy.
It's rough stuff.
1975, "Imagination Dragons."
Oh, jeez.
The beef continues.
So, in episode 89, we talked about the Instagram post from Dan Reynolds of "Imagine Dragons,"
following criticisms from Slipknot's Corey Taylor, the Smashing Pumpkins' Billy Corgan,
Foster the People, and the 1975's Matt Healy, in addition to Dean and Gene Wein.
No, just kidding.
[laughs]
Anyway, as we talked about, Dan from "Imagine Dragons" wrote a post that said,
"For a decade now, I've dealt with critics and other bands saying extremely harsh things about my band.
Words filled with vile and hate meant to feed humanity's need to laugh at each other's imperfections and fails."
And he got into it, and he said, like--and I really respected it,
because, you know, on the one hand, you know, we tell people, like, "Who cares?
You're successful. Why do you care?"
But it's like, we're all human beings, and I really do think that the energy you put out into the world sets the tone.
You're impacting the fabric of life, man.
And also, the more we've listened to "Imagine Dragons" on this program,
I think even you, Jake, who is a pretty big hater, would have to admit, they got a thing going on.
They have a distinctive palette.
They have a distinctive palette, and also, I feel like we listened to a Blake Shelton song,
where it was like a wannabe song, and we were just like,
"This really reminds us how 'Imagine Dragons' is doing their thing."
They're the real deal.
They're the real deal, which sometimes you don't know until you get a fake version.
That Blake Shelton was awful.
[laughs]
I think even you, Cop, do that song being terrible.
And of course, I respect him to the utmost as an artist, but yeah, that was not my favorite song.
And as a businessman.
As an entrepreneur.
So anyway, Mark Foster actually apologized.
Right.
Mark Foster thought about it and was like, "You know what, man? I don't know why I said something mean about you."
And nobody else, I think, really apologized or anything, but you know, maybe you can't expect everybody to get into it.
You know, maybe some people saw what he said and they took it and they're like, "All right. Fair point."
And just left it at that, but I guess Maddie, the singer from the 1975, doubled down.
And actually, somebody, I think, sent this to me or tagged me in it on Instagram when it happened.
And I remember watching it and I was like, "Whoa, this is harsh."
And again, I like all these bands.
I think they're all doing something.
But this is what the guy from 1975 originally said.
He was talking to Q Magazine.
He said, "Songs like 'Radioactive' by 'Imagine Dragons.'
It might as well be called 'Pikachu Banana.'
It's nothingness.
There's no space for nothingness anymore and pop music has so much space for it."
What the hell does that even mean?
Well, okay, first of all—
There's no space for nothingness and pop music has so much space for it?
I think he was saying, "I hear this song 'Radioactive' and it might as well literally be a jumble of meaningless words
because it's about nothing and we're living in a crisis moment."
So when he says, "There's no space for nothingness anymore,"
he's basically saying we don't have time for nothingness anymore and pop music is so full of this.
So, you know, if I was already trying to be kind of very objective and look past the emotion of that,
I might say, "Well, first of all, man, if you really want to go in on pop music,
you did pick some real low-hanging fruit."
People make fun of 'Imagine Dragons' all the time.
If you really wanted to get into the nothingness of pop music,
there's probably a few critical pop darlings that are coasting on some nothingness rhetoric.
If you really wanted to use your platform to start puncturing the nothingness of pop music,
you know, it's almost like all the people running—
I'm really into the political metaphors lately.
It's like all the Democrats running.
It's like, yeah, any Democrat can get on stage and just be like,
"Donald Trump, bad guy. I don't like him, do you?"
Democracy's in jeopardy, folks.
You can say these very general things about how Trump sucks
because basically every Democrat or left-leaning person agrees that Trump sucks.
Where people differentiate themselves is when they say stuff like,
"But Donald Trump didn't start the problem, and let me tell you exactly what the problem is,"
or "Let me talk about somebody who appears to some as liberal,
like a Jeff Bezos who's not paying a nickel."
You know, like the Bernie model is like, "Yeah, of course, Trump's trash,"
but it'll also point out, "But you know, there's these other people who we don't talk about as much
who are contributing to the evils of our society," whatever.
So I'm just saying, like, if you really wanted to, like, you know,
shoot some arrows at the nothingness of pop music, I'm not going to name names
because, you know, that's not my style.
But I'm saying you could use your interview space to go after some things besides Imagine Dragons.
But also, I don't want to stand up for a song that I haven't spent that much time with,
so let's look at "Radioactive."
- Sounds like the Big Little Lies soundtrack. - Oh, yeah.
- Big Little Lies ripped this song off. - Did you watch season 2?
- Not yet. I've only seen one episode. - Yo, Streep.
- I mean-- - Of course.
- How sick would it be if this was the opening song of Big Little Lies?
- I mean, I could see it.
- I don't know this one.
- Sounds like a post-apocalyptic landscape he's describing.
- I'm not going to say I know what that song's about, but--
- That sounds like a Mad Max kind of scenario.
- Well, yeah, it's at least gesturing towards stuff like the apocalypse, prison bus, new age.
- Some dark subject matter.
- And look, of course-- - That seems like a random song to single out for being about nothing.
- I know, because-- - There's a lot of songs that are just like,
"I'm rich! Hey! I bought this thing. I'm awesome."
- And look, there's legitimately great artists who sometimes make statements that would be seemingly hard to defend
in terms of just being vapid materialist statements, and yet they're creatively very interesting.
And if you wanted to bend yourself a little bit into a new perspective, you could probably say,
"Well, when that person makes that vapid materialist statement, there is an element of satire in it."
You know, I'm just saying, you can always find-- - Like Gene Simmons.
- Yeah. [Laughs]
"I want to rock and roll all night and party every day."
I'm just saying, on its face, this is at least gesturing towards serious stuff.
The apocalypse, a revolution.
And again, with song lyrics, it's not always easy to say exactly what it's about,
but it wouldn't be crazy to say that this is a song about somebody entering a phase of life
or a moment in time that is so alienating that they feel like they're radioactive.
That's kind of what it is on its face, right?
Whether this is literally-- - So it's like a meta--okay.
- So if the metaphor of this song is like, you're on a prison bus, and you're entering a world of pain,
whether it's prison or the apocalypse, and you feel so alienated that you feel like, "I'm radioactive."
- You feel stupid and contagious. - I feel stupid--yeah. Same thing that Kurt said.
- Yeah. - So at the very least, you could say this is a song about feeling alienated, maybe,
or a song about entering a confusing, painful period.
All I'm saying is, it's not vapid on its face.
If anything, you could go English major on it and be like, "Well, it's vapid inside
because the Kurt Cobain version would have better imagery and have more ambiguity or something."
But at least on its face-- - Kurt was more direct, in a weird way. Anyway.
- I think I might agree with 1975 on this one. And I'm changed by listening to that.
- That it's nothingness. - Well, I think the problem is what you're saying,
is I think that it's trafficking-- - It's pretentious.
- No, but in signifiers of politics. - Right.
- Like, just talk about the flag and the prison bus. I know what you're saying.
But it is pretty empty metaphor. But specifically that it's about politics.
It's like you're not just talking about the apocalypse or post-apocalypse.
- Yeah, maybe, but-- - You feel like they're leeching out of the credibility
of these heavy subject matter in order to give this mediocre song some gravitas
it doesn't quite deserve or something. That's probably what-- yeah.
- I see both sides. - I'm saying that's one way to look at it.
Because I always try to check myself and say, like, the reason that, you know,
say, like, I love Leonard Cohen or that's one of my favorite artists or something.
- Yeah. - It's partially because I think he--
his lyrics and his songwriting hit at interesting ideas about what it means
to be a person and life and society and all that [bleep]
But at the same time, I also can take a step back and say,
why does a Leonard Cohen song about alienation speak more to me
than an Imagine Dragons song? And I'd be like, well, you know,
it's partially because of the music I liked growing up, my background.
You know, Leonard Cohen's from Montreal, closer to the East Coast
than Imagine Dragons. - Also, you're like a connoisseur
of songwriting and you're a close listener. - And also, Leonard Cohen's like a poet.
He's like an English major dude. We just got more in common in a way.
But the idea that somebody couldn't also-- like, somebody might also hear
Leonard Cohen and be like, I don't have time for this.
Like, this song makes me feel like I'm radioactive.
That's how I feel right now. I literally feel like an alienated person.
And that image of, like, checking out on the prison bus,
whoa, that's like what I felt like. I was taking a regular bus going to my job
and it felt like a prison bus. And, you know, I could look at that
interpretation and be like, there's so much deeper music out there.
Or I could just, like, be like, they nailed something for somebody.
- This is why you're not a music critic.
This is a very egalitarian, open-armed, loving embrace of pop and rock and roll.
- Although some music critics do that. Well, that's also a funny thing because--
- Not with Imagine Dragons. - Yeah, not with Imagine Dragons.
- Are there any, like, prominent music critics who are just like,
new Imagine Dragons is out? 8.8 out of 10.
- New York Times did a whole thing. - Which is like, your way, dude.
- New York Times had an article a couple months ago about re-evaluating Hootie
and the Blowfish and giving them a chance.
Because Hootie and the Blowfish were like the Imagine Dragons of the '90s.
- Yeah, in a way. - Kind of funny name.
Everybody ripped on them. - Yeah.
- And literally, I think the tone of the article was a little bit like,
honestly, this isn't bad, and some of it's actually kind of good,
and why did people hate them so much?
That was, like, the big question.
And I think-- - It was so funny.
- I could imagine in 20 years, like-- - Oh, yeah, dude.
- The next generation being like, wait, why did people hate that so much?
It's like, I kind of love it. Like, that's that real 2017 sound.
So whatever. That's what Matti Healy said.
- Okay. So then what happened?
- And look, every time I've heard 1975, I always thought it was cool.
I don't know if his lyrics-- see, I also just kind of wonder--
- Like, what's the big 1975 song? Throw that on.
I've never been a fan of that band.
I've tried to listen-- because, like, I remember they had an album come out
earlier this year, maybe last year, and it was, like, a lot of buzz,
a lot of, like, critical love.
- I know, a lot of people-- - I remember checking it out
and just being like-- I remember just being like, really?
- I think we talked about this earlier, and I remember expressing some skepticism
towards the 1975, and people on Twitter being like,
dude, you're totally missing the boat on this one.
- Right. - They rule.
- No, and that's the funny thing. I could relate to both bands
because Vampire Weekend's the type of band who has, you know,
one way of looking at it from some people is like,
oh, this band's lightweight, this band's stupid,
and then other people being like, oh, no, this band's pretentious,
and 1975 gets called pretentious a lot.
- Right. - That's one thing I know,
a tiny bit of following the discourse. - Sure.
- This is their top song on Apple Music. It's called "Somebody Else."
[electronic music]
- Is this off the album from this year?
- No, this is from 2016. - Okay.
[electronic music]
- Kind of Hornsby tones. - Which is tight, although--
- Mm-hmm. - Gotta give Boney Bear props
for the first person to-- - Oh, yeah.
- Bring that territory. - Yeah.
[electronic music]
- ♪ So I heard ♪
♪ I found somebody else ♪
♪ ♪
♪ And at first ♪
♪ I thought it was a lie ♪
♪ ♪
- What's the top vampire song on iTunes? Is it A-Punk?
- I would guess A-Punk. - Uh-huh.
So someone that was just like-- - Yeah, man.
- There's some other radio show. - It's a very unscientific way to--
- They're talking about vampire, and they're just like,
"What's the top-- who was vampire week?"
Maybe, like, you know, like a Mike Francesca-style sports radio show.
- Yeah. - Somehow you come up.
"What was this vampire weekend? What's our top song?"
- Our top three songs are A-Punk, This Life, Harmony Hall.
But yeah, if you just listen-- - Oh, that's pretty representative.
- But if you just listen to A-Punk-- - Yeah, it's from 12 years ago, whatever.
- ♪ Looking through your wallet ♪
♪ Through your phone and believing with somebody else ♪
♪ ♪
- That sounds cool. - Yeah, it is cool. I like it.
But again, just--he's talking about lyrics mostly, I think.
So the lyrics to the song-- "So I heard you found somebody else
"and at first I thought it was a lie.
"I took all my things that make sounds, the rest I can do without."
I don't quite have time to unpack that right now, but it's cool.
"I don't want your body, but I hate to think about you with somebody else."
That's some real sh--. - Mm-hmm.
- People break up with somebody, then they get jealous.
How does that make any sense? Human condition, man.
"Our love has gone cold. You're intertwining your soul with somebody else."
That's a bad feeling. We've all been there.
- Intertwining. - "I'm looking through you
"while you're looking through your phone and then leaving off with somebody else.
"No, I don't want your body, but I'm picturing your body with somebody else.
"Come on, baby, this ain't the last time that I'll see your face.
"Come on, baby, you said you'd find someone to take my place.
"I just don't believe that you've got it in you,
"'cause we're just gonna keep doing it."
[laughs] I hope he means having sex.
"We're just gonna keep doing it, and every time I start to believe
"in anything you're saying, I'm reminded that I should be getting over it.
"I don't want your body." Okay, so--
- So they're still doing it after the breakup.
- I would say, based on my very lightweight reading of the song,
it's an accurate and tasteful portrayal
of some of the mixed emotions of a breakup.
"I'm done with you, and yet I can't quit you.
"I don't want you, but I also don't want you doing it with somebody else."
Jealousy, repulsion, whatever, okay, all right, I'm with it.
The funny thing is that--and I bet 1975 fans might be like,
"Oh, that's not even the right song." And again--
- Yeah, I'm sure. - I like that song, and I like the 1975.
This is me taking a step back and not even trying to be judgmental,
but it is just funny to think, like, if it was, like, 1982,
and we put those lyrics side by side, and we found some just, like,
badass alienated kid, like, from the suburbs, we'd be like,
"Here's a song about having mixed feelings after a breakup."
And he'd probably be like, "This sounds like f---ing Phil Collins, man.
"How does this speak to me about my life?
"I'm so alienated, I've never even had a girlfriend."
And then, like-- - This is, like, a post-apocalyptic--
- And he'd be like, "Now this guy, he's talking about feeling radioactive.
"This is what I've been trying to say in Reagan's America, man."
You know, I'm just saying, like, one--
the perspective, actually, in a way, just--it's, like, weirder.
- I dig it, man. I dig where you're at.
- No, and I'm just saying, I'm not even saying, therefore, it's better,
'cause I don't feel that way. - Yeah.
- Look, at the end of the day, 1975 probably does line up more with my taste.
- Sure. - You know, they're from England,
but, you know, that's almost as close to the East Coast as Nevada.
But the idea of what is or is not nothingness,
it's obviously just perspective.
I think that you could find really deep stuff in terms of a song about breakups
or how you feel in that moment,
and, you know, it just depends on your mood and what you need to hear.
The idea that one is, like, you know--
it's not like comparing "Baby Shark" to "Imagine" by John Lennon.
That's pretty cut and dry, 'cause you could be like,
"What's 'Baby Shark' about?" You're like,
"This is a song literally made just to put a smile on babies' faces."
But what's it about, man? It literally is not about anything.
The song was made to be catchy and bouncy and make kids smile.
But who's the shark? It doesn't matter.
It literally doesn't matter.
And then be like, "Well, what's John Lennon saying when he says,
'Imagine there's no countries?'"
He's making a very clear-cut statement about the ways that we divide up humanity
and is there another way that we could organize ourselves,
and would it be better and more peaceful?
And I gotta say, call me crazy,
but I think there's more meat to that than "Baby Shark."
Obviously, that's just a slam dunk.
This is a matter of taste, I would say.
So that's what he said, and then he got to Dan--
almost said Dan Healy.
If you don't mind, I'm just starting to turn Imagine Dragons and 1975 into one band.
They should merge.
They should become a Borg.
They're clones, exactly. They're clones should merge.
So anyway, that's what he said,
and that's one of the things that hurt Dan Reynolds' feelings.
Okay, so then what happened?
Then it came up again.
In June, Healy was asked whether or not bands have responsibility
to talk about social and political issues.
There's no point now in taking up so much space.
Do you know what I mean?
I think I've been accused of maybe having a go at people about that.
Do you see that guy from Imagine Dragons?
He liked him. He went online quite recently.
Okay, first of all, it's Imagination Dragons.
Very disrespectful.
How dare you.
He's kind of like, "Everybody's slagging off my band.
Everyone's saying that I'm not good enough or whatever."
And he was like, "Billy Corgan said it, and Matty from the 1975 said it."
I was like, "Yeah, bro, I didn't say that."
You didn't build that.
No, and even if I did say that, why do you care?
You're a millionaire in a huge band.
You don't go, "Oh, I'm going to do this, and also can I be void of criticism?"
Okay, that part bothered me a little bit.
Saying something provocative and then somebody reacting and saying,
"Why do you care?"
is just like a classic whack avoidance strategy.
Anybody's had that experience where somebody maybe says something
a little mean or provocative towards you, and you're just like,
"Why would you say that?"
"Oh, my God, why do you care?"
You're like, "Because you said something rude."
It's just like--it's a funny avoidance strategy where you're not really
owning up to what you said.
And, yeah, saying that somebody's music is nothingness is like a harsh criticism.
Again, not saying that you're not allowed to make that criticism,
but if you say it and then somebody says, "I thought that was rude,"
say, "Dude, why do you care if it matters so little?
If it matters so little, you didn't need to say it."
And then his argument that the reason you shouldn't care
is because you're a millionaire in a huge band.
Okay, well, you're two millionaires in huge bands.
You're Trump and Hillary going at each other.
You're both wealthy people talking about how important it is to do stuff
for the people.
You have that in common.
So, again, it's weird to say, "Dude, why do you care?
You're a rich guy in a band.
Go just be a rich guy in a band."
It's like, you know, you're taking it there.
So, again, he seems like a nice guy, but I was just kind of like,
"I don't buy that part.
Come on, man."
But that's not the point.
My point wasn't that Imagine Dragons aren't good.
I don't care.
Like, if you're that big, if you're like the biggest alternative band
in America radio play-wise, and you are saying nothing in your music,
if you're just saying words, "Radioactive, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,"
do you know what I mean?
It's like, "Don't--I'm not--I'm sure that they're like--"
That's too much.
Oh, yeah.
This is a politician playing at their own rally.
It's just like, "Yeah!"
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Hold on, folks.
Okay, I guess maybe the reason that this whole thing weighed on me a little bit
is because clearly I can relate to both of these people,
and I would imagine that, again, sensibility-wise--well, I don't know.
Van Perrogen doesn't sound like either one of these bands, really.
But I know more people who like the 1975 than I do who are Imagine Dragons fans.
So at least in my general milieu, I'm surrounded by more 1975 enthusiasts.
But I'm just saying, like, what I've heard so far in this,
it just sounds so inside baseball to me because if the larger point is like,
"Dude, you're doing meaningless stuff in music when the world's on fire," right?
And I've heard a lot of people make it when they're trying to diss somebody else.
I guess to me what I sometimes hear is professional competition,
professional jealousy under the guise of, like, fixing the world.
And I think we see that very often.
Even politics, where literally the job is supposed to be about fixing the world
or at least the country, you sometimes feel like you're watching this empty display of people.
You guys say all this stuff in the debate, and then whoever is going to be president
is just going to go back to the typical centrist Democrat thing.
And it's almost like we know that.
It's like everybody knows that we're watching people have this debate
about who has the better ideas and stands for more.
But at the end of the day, you're just going to go back to what you do.
And in the case of being a musician, what you do is go fly around on planes
all over the world and make money and try to build your brand.
And there are artists--and we know, like, legitimately independent artists
who do things that aren't good for their career because they have deeply held values
about climate change or something.
Somebody's like, "I'm not going to fly to New York to go do a radio show.
I'm not going to fly to Chicago to go do a radio show. That's, like, extra emissions."
So in that sense--and I'm certainly not absolving myself.
It's like, you know, when Van Perrigan's got a new album coming out,
we schlep around the world to do press.
And when people tell me you should go do this because it's going to help more people
hear that the record's out, I'm like, "Okay, cool. That's what we're supposed to do."
I don't have an alternate philosophy. Maybe one day I will.
But I guess what I'm saying is, like, there's a bit of narcissism, a small difference, I think.
Let's see what else you've got to say.
But it's just what's the point?
If you can tell me what the point is apart from escapism, like, then--
I bet that the guy from--see, that's the only bummer thing.
And maybe we've got to get these guys in a room together.
That was always--we always talked about the time crisis town hall.
Squashing the beef.
1975 and Imagine Dragons.
They're going to come in--
Fish and Ween.
Big doubleheader.
Fish and Ween.
We're in Miller.
It really hurt my feelings that you waited until one of my best friends,
my big brother, Jerry Garcia, died to say these horrible things about our music.
You were perfectly happy to stand on stage and jam with us during that 1991 tour.
That really hurt my feelings, Steve.
Bob, I don't respect you. I never have.
Interview over.
But, Steve, Mr. Miller, you've written some good songs.
I like "The Joker." I like "Fly Like an Eagle."
But I'm sure you could admit that it was hypocritical of you to open for us on that tour.
We paid you handsomely.
And then you wait until my big brother, Jerry Garcia, dies to say these horrendous things.
I mean, don't you feel bad when you think about that?
Not at all, Bob.
Not at all, Bob.
When I think back to that 19-- whatever it was--
When I think back to that 1992 tour,
and I think about the fact that I stood on stage with you losers
and got to play to your massive crowds and win them over
and walk away from the Grateful Dead show with 1,000 to 5,000 new Steve Miller fans,
and to know on top of it that I was getting paid,
well, that just makes me smart, and it makes you stupid.
And I would do it all over again.
I know that music is trash, and I thought that.
As I was jamming with you, I had to breathe through my mouth
because I was disgusted by how you smelled and how you jammed.
But I did it for a reason, and that was to build the Steve Miller band brand
and mission accomplished.
And you know what?
If you look at the number of radio plays
on the syndicated classic rock radio format nationally,
Steve Miller wipes the floor of the Grateful Dead.
Radio play-wise, okay, the Grateful Dead may have sold more tickets,
but radio play-wise, where's your Joker?
Truckin'? Are you kidding me?
You might hear Truckin' once a week.
In select markets. In select markets, you might hear Truckin'.
Maybe on some sort of Sunday morning show, you're going to hear
Black and Eagle, Take the Money and Run,
[laughter]
Abracadabra.
I took the money and I ran.
Like that. Abracadabra.
Steve, I can't believe my ears.
You're a terrible person.
Yeah, well, you gotta be a terrible person.
You don't know what I've been through, Bob.
Put on your big boy pants.
It's like a Batman villain or something.
Rough stuff, folks.
Bob Weir is a mess. Get him out of here.
So in this analogy, Imagine Dragons guy is Bob Weir.
Although it's backwards.
And the 1975 guy is Steve Miller.
No, but it's backwards because--
Imagine Dragons is the radio.
Imagine Dragons is more the Steve Miller
and the 1975 is more the Grateful Dead.
Well, let's listen to what else this guy says.
How bitch would, like, protest music nowadays as a society?
Like, look at after 9/11.
That was so hard for the country to deal with.
Everybody's listening to Jack Johnson and Nora Jones.
Do you know what I mean?
Why you gotta drag them into it?
You could have said The Strokes, too,
which is a band he probably loves.
And The Strokes are, like, completely meaningless songs
in the greatest way.
I wouldn't say that, but they did take the song
"New York City Cops" off the album
because it was post-9/11.
Oh, wow, I didn't even know that.
I just think of their hits, "Last night."
They're fun rock songs. They're great.
I guess in a way I almost gotta respect Steve Miller
because it's like there's so much--
Yeah, and also, again, I--
Just because Steve Miller, he didn't try to hide behind--
Steve Miller could have been like, "You know what, man?
"The spirit of the '60s and the '70s,
"it was about people like us
"and other well-regarded musicians
"like the Grateful Dead and Jimi Hendrix
"'cause you know what I got no time for, man,
"was Neil Diamond."
And then whoever he was doing the interview with
would have been like, "Yeah, right on.
"We don't like Neil Diamond. We like rock music."
And he would have been aligning himself.
But he went after a legend.
Yeah, and also, this isn't fair.
I'll fully admit that this isn't fair to the 1975,
but there is just that part of me that--
This happens a lot when I hear about a situation like this.
Somebody's, like, being harsh on somebody else.
I'm always like, "Come on, man.
"Why can't everybody be a little more cool with each other?"
But then there's always that devil on my shoulder
that's always like, "But if you want to go to war, go to war."
I mean, I guess my point-- Yeah, sometimes when I see somebody, like,
say something that I find unnecessarily harsh,
which, again, I hope--
If anything, I'm not dissing him.
I would love to see this resolved.
Yeah, get to the bottom of it.
I just don't like unnecessary harshness floating out there.
And I do think, from everything that I know about his music,
I would say that Maddie, similar to Dan,
both actually seem like thoughtful people.
And actually, I don't think Matt Healy seems like the type of dude
who would be above revising his critique.
But I'm just saying, in this moment,
he's doing a promotional interview with a radio station for his band
to promote his band and his brand.
He's thinking more about himself as a person and the 1975
in terms of what they represent.
And sometimes to make a case for what you or your brand band--
Corporate entity.
Your corporate entity represents, you have to say,
"Here's what we got that going on that's better than Coke."
You know, like, "We're Pepsi. Our market share is not as big,
but here's what we got going on that those losers don't have."
So, again, I don't think that if these guys met in person,
I don't think he's like Steve Miller level.
No. Treachery. Far from it.
It seems like he's caught up in the moment.
He's in front of a small audience.
He kind of let it get away from him a little bit.
In fact, I would say that if he did hear us doing a close read
of two throwaway statements he made, he could say, "Who cares?" to us.
And that'd be fine. That'd be fine.
I'd be absolutely fine with that. Let's just get to the end of it.
Didn't want to deal with reality.
We have to deal with reality now.
So I seen that guy from Imagine Dragons get up on stage the other week
at Bellboard Music Awards, started talking about conversion therapy
and saying how it was bullsh*t and we needed to stop it.
And I thought, "There you go. Good. Use your platform.
I'm not going to slag you off for that." Do you know what I mean?
Well, he probably did it because of you.
No. That's brutal.
Not at all.
That part's brutal. Wait, what does he say to that?
Good. Good for him.
Good for everybody.
Again, I didn't know that much about Imagine Dragons
until we started doing the show, but I feel like...
I don't think we ever talked about it, but, you know, we do a lot...
I feel like we've talked about it.
We do so much research for this show.
Oh, the preparation that goes into the show is enormous.
It's unbelievable. Hours in the library.
And I remember we kept coming... This is old at this point.
That, first of all, Imagine Dragons come from the Mormon community,
which famously, like many religious communities,
has been very harsh and unfair towards gay people, among others.
And, you know, including brutal, inhumane, idiotic stuff
like conversion therapy, trying to make somebody straight who's not.
So, anyway, the dude from Imagine Dragons,
he made a documentary about it.
The idea that he just got on stage at the Billboard Awards
and suddenly... Because, you know, there are musicians like that
who will just, out of nowhere, who weren't political for a second,
see the right moment and be like, "Oh, hey, you know..."
Global warming, man. It's messed up.
Right. And look, it's not like every moment of being a musician,
you need to fly a flag for what you believe in.
Sometimes you need to just worry about, like, Major Sevenths
and, you know, things like that. Get into the show on time.
# Falling too fast to prepare for this
# Tripping in the world could be dangerous
# Everybody circling this vulture race
# Negative nepotist
# Everybody waiting for the fall of Maine
# Everybody praying for the end of times
# Everybody hoping they could be the one
# I was born to run, I was born for this
# Pull me like a racehorse, pull me like a ripcord
# Break me down and build me up
# I want to be the slip, slip word upon your lip, lip
# Ready to rip, rip, break me down and build me up
# Whatever it takes
# Cos I love the adrenaline in my veins
# I'll do whatever it takes
# Cos I love how it feels when I break the chains
# Whatever it takes
# Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
# Yeah, take me to the top
# I'm ready for whatever it takes
# Oh, oh, oh, oh
# Cos I love the adrenaline in my veins
# I'll do whatever it takes
So I guess here's what's going on.
These people aren't really talking to each other.
That's what's happening.
This guy from 1975 doesn't really know anything about Imagine Dragons.
The truth is, Imagine Dragons are his straw man.
They represent emptiness,
just like there's some assh*le on the internet right now
who's saying the 1975 are pretentious and don't mean anything.
Cos you can find somebody saying that about literally every band that exists.
So the truth is, he happened to be watching the Billboard Awards
and saw the guy say something and he was like, "Finally!"
as if he'd been monitoring his career for the past six years.
Whereas the truth is, this guy made a documentary
for mainstream television
about the plight that an oppressed group faces
within his large religious community.
And again, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt
cos he does seem like a thoughtful, sensitive person.
I'd imagine if the guy from 1975, if we told him that,
I think he'd probably be like, "Oh, damn, I didn't know that."
I do think this interviewer who says, "It's probably because of you."
Like, imagine that you're from Imagine Dragons
and you're just watching this.
You're probably like, "What is happening?"
[laughter]
"Probably because of you." "Good. Finally."
And then I also just think, like,
I think these things get under my skin
because I can relate to every side of it
and I've been in my own small little versions of this
and I know the feelings on both sides, I think, to some extent.
Or whatever, it's just triggering for me, maybe.
You know, like a weaned fish conversation for Jake.
- Highly triggering. - So I don't know.
I mean, yeah, there's just something about this that did kind of...
Yeah, man, you are, man.
We just unpacked that for the last, like, 45 minutes.
I just feel bad for the guy from Imagine Dragons.
It's just also, like, people always go after the same stuff.
That's what's lame about it.
Anyway, shout-out to those guys. I hope they work out their beef.
The final thing I'll say is they're just missing a lot of information about each other.
I want to see them unite and campaign for Bernie together.
- TC Town Hall. - Anyway.
Hope that resolves itself in a timely manner.
Let's get into the top five.
It's time for the top five.
Top five on iTunes.
So, you know, this is our first show back in a while.
- We're just going to go-- - A little rusty.
We're a little rusty, so we're just going to go through the top five songs on iTunes right now.
By the way, I heard that iTunes is not long for this earth.
- Is that true, Seinfeld? - Does that mean the end of Time Crisis?
- Yeah. - This is our last episode.
I feel like TC is on iTunes, right?
Oh, yeah, and Renaud forgot to mention, yeah, this is the last Time Crisis.
Oh, sorry, guys. Didn't make it to 100 Eps.
Just came up short.
If we made it to 100 Eps, we would have gotten that syndication money, too.
- That Seinfeld money. - Right.
Too bad we did that rerun last week.
That really screwed us.
If we hadn't done that rerun, we would be splitting a billion dollars right now.
Apple Music is replacing iTunes after 18 years.
Wait, Jake, you know, we're not on iTunes.
We're on Apple Music. We're on Beats 1.
But I thought you get to Apple Music by going to iTunes, right?
Like, don't you, like, open your phone, and there's, like, the Apple--
- There's, like, the iTunes-- - No, it's two different things.
I've listened to the show. I go to the iTunes thing, where, like, I would, like--
No, no, that's not iTunes. That's Apple Music.
The iTunes store is a different app.
No, but you-- You can access--
- Wait, you might be-- - You can access the iTunes store
through Apple Music, though.
- They're probably linked. - I have my iPhone.
- I'm willing to bruise up. - There's, like, the little logo
- with the musical note. - Yeah, it's an app.
And you open it, and then there's, like--
- That's Apple Music. - And it's, like, "Search."
- And it's, like, "Radio." - iTunes store is this purple one with a star.
The update is part of Mac OS Catalina.
- It's coming this fall. - Ooh, that's a catchy name.
- Catalina? - Catalina.
- I like Catalina Island. - Very classy.
Anyway, we're just gonna go through the top five right now,
'cause we're out of practice. We're not gonna compare it to anything.
- Number five. - We're out of time.
Our old friends, the Chainsmokers, back-- I haven't heard about them in a minute.
Featuring-- The Chainsmokers and Illenium featuring Lennon Stel.
It's called "Takeaway."
It's the fifth single from the Chainsmokers'
upcoming third studio album, "World War Joy."
Upcoming? They've released five singles before the record's out?
- Yeah, Bebe Rexha's actually-- - That's kinda like the pop move.
Seinfeld's keeping a close eye on Bebe Rexha's career.
Well, I mean, this is just empty, meaningless, about nothing.
I heard a lot of people talking about Imagine Dragons,
but nobody wants to take a shot at the Chainsmokers. Interesting.
- Kind of a ballad. - Yeah.
I'm waiting for that big, harsh drop.
That drop, yeah.
It seemed like they were leading up to it,
- when that kinda brushed snare hit. - Yeah, right, this part.
- Oh, there it is. - Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, one thing I gotta say is,
if you played this to somebody 30 years ago,
they'd be like, "This is the most futuristic,
experimental music I've ever heard."
- All about perspective, man. - Well, would they in 1989?
I think they'd be blown away by elements of it.
- Yeah. In '79... - 'Cause even if you were listening...
- Yes. - In '79, their head would literally explode.
- '89, I'm not... - But, yeah, '89,
they would be familiar with Acid House and [bleep]
but also in '89, they thought by 2019,
there'd be flying cars and stuff.
Yeah, that part's kinda weird.
Ricky, you could kill somebody with that song.
Any time before 1960, you could kill somebody with that.
Take it back in a time machine, you mean?
Well, that's a good plot point for a Back to the Future 5.
- Oh, yeah. - Marty, you can't play the Chainsmokers!
Your parents aren't ready for this!
- But your kids are gonna love it. - Yeah, Marty McFly just...
Marty McFly goes back, but he doesn't know how to play guitar.
He sits in with the band, he's just like,
"Uh, where can I plug my CDJs in?"
You guys got an aux in?
It takes, like, 30 minutes of just awkwardly trying to rig it into the amp.
Plays some Chainsmokers.
Marty, no!
The number four song, Shawn Mendes and Camila Cabello, "Senorita."
Familiar faces. "Senorita"?
Shout-out to Shawn Mendes. You know, he came to the Vampire Webster Hall show.
- He did? - Yeah.
- He was cool. - Tight.
- I really liked him. - I wouldn't recognize him.
Oh, yeah, I've heard this song.
No, no, no.
[playing "Senorita"]
♪ I love it when you call me senorita ♪
♪ I wish I could pretend I didn't need ya ♪
♪ But every touch is ooh la la la ♪
♪ It's true la la la ♪
♪ Oh, I should be running ♪
♪ Oh, you keep me coming for ya ♪
♪ Late in Miami ♪
♪ The air was hot from summer rain ♪
♪ Sweat dripping off me ♪
♪ Before I even knew her name, la la la ♪
♪ You felt like ooh la la la ♪
- Tasteful. - ♪ Yeah, no ♪
♪ Sapphire and moonlight ♪
♪ We danced for hours in the Santa-quila sunrise ♪
♪ Her body felt like a dance, la la la ♪
- Is that what he said? - Wait, what did he actually say?
I think he said, like, a place.
♪ Sapphire and moonlight ♪
♪ We danced for hours in the Santa-quila sunrise ♪
- Santa-quila? - Or he said, "This ain't tequila sunrise"?
- I think he said, "Sapphire." - He's like, "Sapphire and moonlight."
- Wait, is sapphire a type of gin? - Oh, okay.
He's saying they're drinking-- he's like, "Oh, you--"
Gin and moonlight.
You think we're in a Spanish-speaking country,
so you're assuming that we're drinking tequila.
First of all, we're not even in Mexico. Stupid.
The line is, "We danced for hours in the sand."
Next line, "Tequila sunrise."
Wait, but he said-- is it actually sapphire and moonlight?
- Sapphire and moonlight. - Wait, yeah, say the whole thing,
- starting there. - Uh, sapphire, moonlight,
we danced for hours in the sand, tequila sunrise.
Oh, he didn't say, "It ain't tequila sunrise"?
- Sand, tequila, yeah. - Oh, okay, so he's--
Wait, sapphire is gin? Bombay sapphire.
But I don't think it's an alcohol reference.
- It's a double entendre. - Maybe just the gemstone.
No, no, you're saying me and Kabila Kabay are getting [bleep] up.
- Yeah, we're partying. - We're getting loaded.
We're drinking gin, maybe martinis or something, G&Ts,
and we're dancing on the sand.
- I know [bleep] the sun's coming out. - Pasa de tequila.
- Yeah. - And then six hours later,
- tequila, moon. - Oh.
Okay, wait, wait, yeah, sapphire, moonlight, tequila sunrise.
- Yeah, yeah, he's saying-- - I don't know where I'm going with this,
- but-- - He's saying in the moonlight,
we drank gin, and then in the morning--
Actually, I like the songwriting on this.
Wait, is sapphire, moonlight a drink, though?
No, they're drinking gin.
He's kind of taking out a few, like, words that make it more clear.
- Yeah. - They're drinking gin in the moonlight.
- Wait, hold on, you might be right. - Drinking gin in the moonlight.
- I feel like he's just-- - No, sapphire, moonlight.
It's a Minecraft skin.
- That's what-- - Okay, it's like Minecraft all night,
- and then as the sun came up, he said-- - Stone cold sober.
- You want a drink? - It's a Wynne-Amp skin.
Or, of course, he could literally just be describing the color of the moonlight.
- That's what I'm thinking. - Wait, 'cause sapphire's blue, right?
There's a tequila sunrise flavor of Red Bull now, so--
- Is there? - No, they're drinking that at dawn.
Right.
Wow, we're really overthinking this. I think sapphire is blue,
- and moonlight is famously blue. - Yeah.
- Bluish. - Okay, here's what I think.
Tequila sunrise is a drink. He's kind of reverse engineering it.
So sapphire, moonlight is not a drink,
but he's using tequila sunrise as, like, the template to go back
- and describe the moonlight. - Sean, I'm sorry.
We really bungled this one. You know?
Is it an Eagles reference?
- Well, yeah. - Or is it just a drink reference?
I think everybody knows the phrase tequila sunrise,
but a lot of people don't realize it's an Eagles song.
- Is it a Mountain Brews reference? - It might be a-- the timing works out.
And also, so he said, "Land in Miami. The air was hot from summer rain.
"Sweat dripping off me before I even knew her name.
"La-la-la. It felt like ooh-la-la-la. Yeah, no.
"Sapphire, moonlight. We danced for hours in the sand.
"Tequila sunrise. Her body fit right in my hands. La-la-la."
It's got a little bit of an Ed Sheeran vibe, this song.
Oh, man, there's an Ed Sheeran song I wanted to play.
Remind me on the next episode. We gotta do a deep dive.
And I'll actually give this a heads-up to the listeners.
The next time-- maybe not the next episode. Sometime soon.
- I was listening to Classic Rock Radio. - Nice.
And an Uber, and in between, literally, I think Steve Miller and, like, Hart,
they played a new Ed Sheeran song featuring Bruno Mars and Chris Stapleton
- that's, like, a hard rock song. - Really? Wow.
Yeah, we gotta get into that. I think I gotta play this real quick.
- Just check this out. - Yeah, let's just--
Sorry, Sean. Sorry, Sean and Camilla. I actually like that song.
We'll get into it again. This is a song from the new Ed Sheeran album called "Blow."
- Unfortunately, it is not in the top five. - Called "Blow"?
Yeah. Just imagine if this, like, Beavis and Butthead, just like, "Ha, ha, ha.
"Yeah, 'Blow' is right. Ha, ha."
That is such a hilarious album title.
I love that they just dropped this on the Classic Rock station.
( screaming )
- Oh, my God. - It's kind of Rage Against the Machine vibe.
He's taking a page out of Greta Van Fleet's book here.
Oh, yeah.
♪ I'm feeling like a bullet ♪
♪ Jumping out a gun ♪
♪ I'm feeling like a winner ♪
♪ I feel like the one ♪
This is just, like, White Snake.
( laughing )
♪ Well, jump back, talk to me, woman ♪
♪ You make me wanna make a baby, baby ♪
- You make-- - ( screams )
- This feels like-- - Is this 1983?
- Feels like a misstep. - No, this is '90s vibe.
It's like a little bit Lenny Kravitz, almost.
Oh, good call.
Chris Stapleton.
God, these guys suck.
I wasn't imagining dragons any day of the week over this.
- Oh. - Check that out.
- Is this Bruno Mars' on this? - Yeah, yeah.
It's all three of them.
♪ You got me down on my knees ♪
♪ I'm calling, baby ♪
♪ I'm calling for you, baby ♪
♪ Rock, golden ♪
♪ Shoot my shot tonight ♪
- Oh, shoot my shot tonight? - Jesus. Dirty.
♪ I'm calling for you ♪
♪ Pull my trigger, let me blow your mind ♪
- Oh, God. - ( laughter )
This is unbelievable.
Not feeling it?
- Oh, my God. - Come on, man.
- Oh. - You know what, man?
No, man, I'm not feeling it.
- I'm not feeling it. - Wait, wait, wait.
Did we already hear Bruno? Was he-- could we hear him?
I think Bruno sang a little bit.
- He was in those bluesy harmonies. - Oh, was he? Okay.
Keep it going. Let's just take this all the way.
No, but, Jake, I gotta say, man,
I'm tired of people like you complaining that rock's played out
and then you get three major stars bringing rock back
and you turn your nose up at it, man. Come on.
Hell yeah, I do.
These lyrics are incredible.
Oh, there he is.
♪ Come closer, let's talk about it ♪
- I kinda like that part. - Yeah, that part's nice.
♪ I'm down, down, down, down, down, down, down ♪
♪ And everything in between, yeah ♪
Whipped cream and everything.
♪ I'm coming for you, yeah ♪
♪ Heart, body ♪
♪ Show me my sheds and life ♪
♪ I'm coming, baby ♪
♪ I'm coming for you ♪
♪ Pull my trigger, let me blow your mind ♪
♪ I'm coming ♪
Oh.
- Is that Stapleton? - He's Shreds.
Probably.
♪ ♪
Oh, you got the octave pedal on.
I'm kinda into that. That's kinda cool.
♪ I'm coming, baby ♪
♪ I'm coming for you, yeah ♪
♪ Heart, body ♪
♪ Show me my sheds and life ♪
♪ I'm coming, baby ♪
♪ I'm coming for you ♪
♪ Pull my trigger, let me blow your mind ♪
Jesus.
♪ ♪
It's kinda like Aerosmith, like '70s Aerosmith kinda vibe.
I think you're Lenny Kravitz.
Yeah, I think Kravitz is totally on point.
I like things about it, but I gotta say,
again, to go back to Imagine Dragons thing--
Talk about rough stuff, man.
Even if you think Imagine Dragons are rough stuff,
you can't deny that they're fundamentally progressive.
Oh, yeah, they have, like, an original sound.
They're not backwards-looking at all.
Yeah, which is why they're not on classic rock radio.
Yeah.
And why this drivel was.
♪ Let me blow your mind ♪
That is [bleep] brutal.
- Did we ever talk about-- - Vampire Weekend cover.
- Oh, my God. - ♪ Pull my trigger ♪
Did we ever talk about that movie yesterday,
and Ed Sheeran thing, doing the "Hey, dude" line?
We got an e-mail about it, right?
Yeah, it came up a lot on Twitter.
I feel like we never addressed it on the show.
- Have you seen the movie? - No.
This is the movie about a world where the Beatles didn't exist,
- and one guy remembers them. - Right.
Which people I think all the good jokes about
- have already been made, so... - Yeah, true.
I think we can--
I'll see that movie at some point in my life.
The number-three song right now--
I actually was just introduced to this song.
Maybe you haven't heard this one yet,
but "Old Town Road" is not the only hip-hop-country hybrid
- racing up the charts. - Mm-hmm.
There's one hot on its heels,
and this is "The Get Up" by Blanco Brown,
who's also from Atlanta, but he would spend his summers
with his grandmother in Butler, Georgia,
where he learned to appreciate country music.
♪ Right now ♪
♪ I just need you to get real loose ♪
It says he actually played the lap steel himself.
- Tight. - ♪ Grab your loved ones ♪
♪ Or grab your loved partner ♪
♪ And if you're by yourself, no worries ♪
♪ Just follow after me ♪
♪ I wanna do the two-step and cowboy boogie ♪
♪ With your sweetheart and spin out with him ♪
- ♪ Hold down and get it ♪ - This song rules.
- This is sick. - I'm more into this than "Old Town."
♪ Take a sip with it, don't throw down ♪
♪ Take a sip with it, and lean back ♪
♪ Put your hips in it ♪
♪ Let's have some fun ♪
♪ To the left, to the left now ♪
Can this song exist without "Old Town," you think?
One thing I'll say is this is like a true novelty dance song.
♪ Gonna roll your shoulders ♪
♪ Do the slip and slide ♪
♪ This next part's my favorite part of this time of year ♪
♪ Gonna do the two-step and cowboy boogie ♪
♪ Grab your sweetheart and spin out with him ♪
♪ Gonna do the two-step ♪
He said, "I'd never played the lap steel before,
so it sounded horrible, as we can imagine.
And I tuned it like I tuned my guitar over E
and made one chord bar fret, and then I kind of made the loop.
And then I added the beatboxing, the kick drums, the 808s,
the snares, the spoons, the tambourines,
and after I got finished doing that, I was like,
"This song is so joyful, I just gotta make some lyrics.
I feel just as exciting."
When I picture this dude making this song by himself, I love it.
- Lo-fi auto-tune country. - Yeah.
♪ Right now and take to the floor ♪
♪ Gonna do the two-step and cowboy boogie ♪
♪ Grab your sweetheart and spin out with him ♪
♪ Gonna go down and get into it ♪
♪ Take it to the left now and dip ♪
The truth is, "Old Town Road" is a great song,
but there were a lot of kind of like trap, country, hip-hop hybrids
floating around in the years before it.
So it did kind of seem like-- like, remember the--
there's that Big Wett song that was in the Hardee's commercial?
- Right, right. - ♪ Turn up on the weekends ♪
- Oh, yeah, that song was sick. - And then I feel like Young Thug
made some kind of country songs, so it was like bubbling,
and "Old Town Road" was like the slam-dunk, right song, right moment.
So of course, "Old Town Road" is a very important song, but it didn't--
maybe it kicked off the successful era of that type of music,
but in another way, it was also kind of like the crest of the wave.
The next song, number two, "Lizzo, Truth Hurts."
♪ ♪
♪ ♪
This is a really big song. I've heard this.
♪ ♪
♪ ♪
♪ ♪
The radio station WIXX in Green Bay edited out the "New Man on the Minnesota Vikings" line
due to the Green Bay Packers' rivalry with the Vikings.
- Is she a Minnesota-based artist? - ( laughs )
- I don't think-- I think she's from Texas. - That sounds cool.
♪ ♪
- Got a witty line in there. - ♪ Why me a bird ♪
The song's popularity was also boosted by its appearance
in the Netflix film "Someone Great."
Wait, Seinfeld, do "Number Crunch."
Is there a "Vampire Weekend" song in the Netflix film "Someone Great"?
- ♪ Now ♪ - ♪ Now ♪
- ♪ Now ♪ - ♪ Now ♪
- ♪ Let's get a number crunch ♪ - Brought to you by Seinfeld 2000.
You don't know?
I'd remember if I, like, wrote a song for something,
but it sounds familiar, like they wanted to use an old song.
Okay, uh, so there's a scene where they reminisced "Vampire Weekend."
- Oh, yeah. "Mansard Roof." - Okay, that sounds right.
Knew it. Well, how come "Mansard Roof" didn't shoot back up in the charts?
Hey, by the way, we got a lot of tweets about this life being in "Love Island."
- Oh, yeah. - ( laughs )
What's up with that? A lot of people are very curious.
- A lot of clicks. - And Harmony Hall in a Comfort Hotels ad.
- That's right. Oh, whoa. - It's just instrumental.
It's like some scene where, like, goats are running around or something like that.
Okay, so the thing is, with "Love Island,"
I'm 99% sure that I didn't approve that.
And, look, I'm pretty easygoing with approvals unless it's, like, a really harsh thing.
- Right. - Especially for TV and movies.
Obviously, like, when it's, like, a company,
you gotta kinda, like, make sure the company's not, like, brutal.
But TV and movies-- it's like, you know, if, for instance,
someone's like, "They want to use 'Mansard Roof' in a Netflix movie called 'Someone Great.'"
- It's like, all right. - Sure.
Why not? But in the UK, and also in the US a little bit,
there's some of these TV shows, but especially the UK,
they have these, like, blanket license deals where, like--
I don't know how to describe it.
My understanding is that fair use laws are different.
So in the UK, they're allowed to, like, briefly use whatever songs they want in shows.
'Cause I kinda remember this happening a lot in the UK.
People were like, "Oh, my God, on BBC, they just used--"
I might be totally wrong. I could, like, go look at my email
and probably be like-- they're like, "Do you want this to be on 'Love Island'?"
I'm like, "Hell yeah!" I don't totally remember.
But I also feel like on MSNBC, people would always be like,
"Morning Joe just played a part of a Vampire Weekend song on their way out."
And I was like, "Nobody asks about that 'cause they don't have to."
- Right. - So I could be wrong about this.
You know, I got a lot going on with, you know, the internet radio show,
the research, all that stuff.
But a lot of times when I hear about stuff like that, I'm like,
"Oh, yeah, it's the blanket. It's the blanket agreement."
Do you remember the MTV blanket agreement?
- No, what was that? - So if you submitted your video
to be on MTV, at the height of MTV,
then you were submitting it for a blanket license for all MTV shows.
If you had your video or submitted it, they can use it on The Real World,
they can use it on Jersey Shore.
- On Beavis and Butthead. - On Beavis and Butthead.
- Anything. - Just being brutal.
Like, any B-show that they had, you're meeting your--
- Wow. - But the thing is, I think that turned into
a bit of a pain in the ass for MTV because then in the DVD era,
when people wanted to get a box set of, like, The Real World,
suddenly they're like, "Oh, God, we have to go edit it,"
because the license wouldn't cover DVDs.
- Like on Beavis. - Yeah, exactly.
I'm sure they didn't get-- they used the blanket license.
Yeah, so--
But, like, the videos aren't on the-- like, if you watch--
Oh, yeah, right, right. On the DVDs, they didn't have the rights to the videos.
But that was most of the show.
- Exactly. - It was, like, half of it.
Yeah, so it put them in the ass.
- It was the funniest part of the show. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm sure there's probably some hilarious stuff, like,
somebody being really frustrated after losing on Road Rules,
and it's just like, "Everything in its right place."
[laughter]
You're just like, "Damn, Surprise Radio had went for that one."
It's like, "No, no, they didn't."
Um, guess what the number one song is on iTunes Top 5 right now?
- "Old Town Road." - That's right.
But it's the Billy Ray Cyrus remix,
which I believe-- to me, has kind of become, like, the de facto version.
- Right. - 'Cause there's the original,
then this is the biggest remix,
then you have all these other ones, too.
I feel like when we were recording the REM crossover EPS in April,
that's when this dropped, and it was number one.
Yeah, because I'm pretty sure we played this
for Adam Scott and Scott Aukerman for the first time ever.
Yes, in April. Here we are, August.
Well, look, Lil Nas X, however you did it,
I'm glad that "Old Town Road" and Lil Nas X took the crown,
even if they did it in a newfangled way.
It's 2019.
And I also like that he's opening up a real can of worms
for the future of cloning and award shows.
He's also got a new song called "Panini."
- That's pretty "Vampire Weekend." - That's what I said to him.
My understanding is that in that song,
he's actually referencing a cartoon character called Panini.
♪ Yeah, I'm gonna take my horse ♪
♪ From the old town road ♪
♪ I'm gonna ride till I can't no more ♪
♪ Gonna take my horse ♪
But when I met him, I was just like,
"Yo, I like your new song, 'Panini.'"
And I was kind of like,
"I feel like nobody talks about Paninis anymore."
And he was like, "Yeah."
You didn't know it was about a cartoon character?
You thought it was about, like, the sandwich?
I wasn't--yeah, I didn't know that it was about a cartoon character yet.
♪ I've been in the valley ♪
♪ You ain't been up off that porch ♪
♪ Now can't nobody tell me nothing ♪
♪ You can't tell me nothing ♪
♪ Can't nobody tell me nothing ♪
♪ You can't tell me nothing ♪
♪ Riding on a tractor ♪
♪ Lean all in my bladder ♪
♪ She did all my biting ♪
I mean, I think we talked about it,
but you know who's really cleaning up on this?
Trent.
Trent Reznor's got serious publishing on this song
'cause it's filtered out a Nine Inch Nails sample.
That's so funny.
You're Trent Reznor, you're like,
you know, he's doing film scoring,
you're sure got equity and all sorts of stuff.
Seems like the type of dude who's probably, like,
was an early investor in Uber.
No, but he's, like, definitely, like, loaded.
But you can just imagine that just, like,
this is some truly out of nowhere sh--.
It's like, hey, Trent, here's an extra $7 million for you.
Cool.
This quarter.
Oh, my God.
Maybe more.
I can't tell if that's a lot or a little for this song.
I have no idea.
Man, how come Trent hasn't jumped on a remix?
Oh, he's just watching the money roll in.
He's like, you put whoever the f--- you want on
and just keep those checks coming.
You think Trent lives in L.A.?
I'm sure he has at least one abode.
Didn't he, like, live in New Orleans for a while,
or he just, like, record down there?
I don't know.
What do you think Trent's gonna do
just, like, an extra $12 million this year?
God, that's a deep question.
Christmas gifts.
Gonna be crazy.
He's one of the key people that went after Hootie and the Blowfish.
Oh, Trent was?
What? At the time?
Oh, no.
More recently.
Wait, recently?
Death to Hootie and the Blowfish.
Death?
What?
In 2019?
Chill out, Trent.
Whoa, I thought Trent was a chill dude, man.
Is he actually, like, the Steve Miller of--
He said that-- No, he said that in 1997.
Wow, he had a really funny soul patch back in the day.
Check that out.
Oh, my God.
All right, he hated Hootie.
Well, you know what, Trent?
You were happy to go open for Hootie in '95--
No, just kidding.
This would be like--
We're talking about, like, the dude from 1975
being like, "Guys, who cares?
Why are you obsessed with this beef?"
Like, we would, like, really reach out to Trent,
like, "Dude, come on, man.
Like, there's still some, like, open wounds
about, like, the Hootie thing."
Just be like, "Guys, who the [bleep] cares?"
You know, but I will say this.
Wouldn't that be cool?
Trent's like, "You know what?
I'm already a very wealthy musician, film composer,
and tech investor.
I made an extra $11 million this year that, honestly,
if it wasn't for Lil Nas X,
it just literally wouldn't have happened.
I'm going to give it to Hootie and the Blowfish."
[laughter]
I've had this albatross around my neck--
The one that's in need...
For 20 years.
It's Darius Rucker.
I'm going to start the Hootie Foundation.
He's saying some kind of, like, 1975-type stuff.
This is from 1997.
"Rock 'n' roll should be about rebellion.
It should piss your parents off,
and it should offer some elements of taboo.
It should be dangerous, you know?
But I'm not sure it really is dangerous anymore.
Now, thanks to MTV and radio,
rock 'n' roll gets pumped into your house
every second of every day.
Being a rock 'n' roll star has become
as legitimate a career option as being an astronaut
or a policeman or a fireman.
That's why I applaud, even helped create,
bands like Marilyn Manson.
The shock rock value, I think it's necessary.
Death to Hootie and the Blowfish, you know?
It's safe. It's legitimate.
Look at Marilyn Manson.
They have no qualms about taking that whole thing on.
The scene needs that, you know?
It doesn't need another Pearl Jam ripoff band.
It doesn't need the politically correct REMs
telling us we don't eat meat.
[bleep] you to all that.
We want someone who wants to say,
"You know what?
I [bleep] off 10 times a night,
and I [bleep] groupies."
This just got crazier and crazier.
[laughter]
It's not considered safe to say that.
"I [bleep] off 10 times a night."
It's not considered safe to say that now,
but rock shouldn't be safe.
I'm not saying I adhere wholeheartedly
to all that in my own lifestyle.
I only [bleep] off five times a day.
But I think that's the aesthetic we need right now.
There needs to be some element of anarchy
or something that dares to be different.
That's--
That's so classic.
I guess the thing about all this [bleep]
is, like, look, I guess part of music
is getting riled up about--
it is about the narcissism of small difference.
And that you got to, like--
actually, I got to take a step back and be like,
that's all music is, kind of, is, like,
why--who cares how the drums sound?
It's the narcissism of small difference.
That means something to you,
even though it really isn't that different.
But there is something funny about
most [bleep] talking just, like, never ages well.
Yeah, that's a good lesson, right?
Yeah, maybe above all.
'Cause it's, like--at the end of the day,
it's, like, is Marilyn Manson, like,
edgier than Hootie?
No.
It definitely--yeah, this statement hasn't aged well.
And also, just picture that you're, like,
Michael Stite, just, like, cracking open
Rolling Stone in 1997, and you're just like,
"Oh, yeah, Trent Reznor, nice guy."
And you're, like, a man with a couple of times,
and he's just like, "Hootie the blow [bleep]!
"R.E.M. doesn't eat meat!
"Shut the [bleep] up!
"Why don't you [bleep] off more?"
And you just be like, "Jesus Christ!
"This guy's insane."
Crush a burger and beat it, bro.
[laughter]
And also, like--
At least Trent Reznor's not trying to, like,
actually make it political.
At least Trent Reznor's being like,
"I like Marilyn Manson 'cause they're just morons
"who [bleep] off a lot.
"They're just [bleep] idiots."
"Shut the [bleep] up!
"That is so weird."
[laughter]
Okay, we got--
I think we really need a TC Town Hall with Trent.
We got a full lineup, dude.
We got Steve and Bob.
We got Gene and Dean and Trey and the boys.
Three generations of beef.
We got Maddie and Danny.
And now we got Trent, Hootie--
And Stipe.
And Stipe and Marilyn Manson.
And throw in Peter Buck.
And Peter Buck.
"Trent, what do you have to say for yourself?"
He's like, "I'm sorry, but I might have been wrong,
"but in the '90s, I just had this perception
"that you guys were, like, didn't eat meat."
And you're like, "Well, we didn't eat meat."
"And you also didn't [bleep] off that much."
"Well, hold on, Trent.
"We [bleep] off a lot."
"Well, yeah, but not, like, 10 times a night."
"You'd be surprised, man."
That's about as good as it gets.
That's a great note to end on.
Also, it's like, I'm sure Michael Stipe probably hated
Hootie and the Blowfish, too, realistically.
He probably thought they sucked.
So he's probably reading it, and he sees Trent Reznor being like,
"Yeah, Hootie and the Blowfish suck."
And he's like, "Yeah, right on, man.
"Those guys suck."
And he's like--
Hold on a second.
And then you got [bleep] REM who doesn't eat meat.
And he's like, "Dude, come on!"
Also, it is one of those things where just, like,
every sentence just takes it up a notch.
He needs that.
He doesn't need another Pearl Jam ripoff, man.
He doesn't need the politically correct REMs telling us
we don't eat meat.
[bleep] you to all that.
It's like, "Whoa, [bleep] you."
The false equivalence that these guys don't eat meat.
And he's like, "The only logical response to the scourge
"of vegetarianism is more [bleep] off."
"Trent, you're a kook, man.
"I didn't know Trent was, like, wacky like that."
Whew.
I always thought Trent would be, like, kind of, like, a serious--
I thought he'd be, like, quoting, like, uh--
Nietzsche.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Heidegger.
That actually is super Heidegger, like,
playing his alternate universe character.
Anyway, we'll get to the bottom of this in the future.
Peace and love, peace and love.
Time Crisis.
Time Crisis with Ezra King.
B-B-B-B-B-B-Beasts.
One.
(applause)
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